Why does the past of this forum feel so shady?

kitkit.com

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man I'm tellin you guys I coulda sworn people used the term AES back in at least the mid-90s, before Dakis and Ray

"Advanced Entertainment System" is just a subtitle which is present on all manifestations of SNK's Neo Geo, it's not a name for a particular version. A NGCD is an advanced entertainment system, just like the arcade- and home systems.

It's because of the friggin' SNES why "AES" became so widely used - people in the US where used to the "entertainment system" crap.

I agree with Tak. Homecart, MVS, or NGCD are all "Advanced Entertainment System" and it's not a name to represent a particular system.

I don't know who started calling homecart as "AES". My speculation of why people call homecart as "AES" is because homecart system is the first NG console available to the public (as most people do not have access to MVS for home use while NGCD is not available yet). When people look at the homecart system box and the console, they see "Neo Geo Advanced Entertainment System". For convenience sake, the concept "AES = homecart" is born.
 

ratson

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It says MVS and Advanced Entertainment System on the side of my cab.I just heard the term aes when i decided to really get into neogeo.I knew about the home system because i bought EGM at an import bookstore in the beginning
neogeo.jpg
 
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lithy

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I just downloaded some of the roms!

This is awesome!
 

norton9478

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I do belive that from a Branding perspective that SNK intentionally tried to downplay the use of "Advanced Entertainment System" in their coin-op marketing.
 

Neo Alec

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I still don't know if Chris Ray and Chris Mullins are the same person or not. One seemed to disappear about when the other came about. That's how little I know about "the troubles." I've been active in the community for a long time, but I've tried to stay out of the drama, and I wasn't active at all during some of the worst years.

Why is the past so shady? The short answer is because there are a lot of assholes. I don't think the PC Engine community was much better off in its heyday either, so maybe it's a condition of most online gamer communities, and in fact many online communities in general.

I don't think so, Advanced Entertainment System was part of the NEO-GEO name on the early AES boxes.
"AES" was in the model number of some of the home system hardware. As far as I know, that's the only place it existed until the online community took it up.
 
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Late

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Who has the Mullins weight lifting champ pic still?
 

Praise the Lard

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Do you guys arguing against the term AES realize that this is an argument you can NOT possibly win? This has been, is, and will most likely be the accepted terminology for all time. Of course you can say it doesn't make perfect sense, but that argument really is hamfisted at best.

If you are still baffled at how AES became the majority term then you really don't need to look any further than eBay. :P I believe auction title character limits played a big role. That and perhaps "NGH" never quite had the same ring as "AES".

Really. It's just an acronym. I feel stoopid for typing about this now.
 

arfink

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As far as the "shady" topic, my notion is that the investment that is Neo collecting keeps the old timers from leaving the scene. Take it or leave it, that's how it seems to work. And as a result there is a slightly more "closed" feel to the forum which often seems strange to newbs.

I often think of it like the difference between a Neman Marcus store and a bar. There's nothing really wrong with the bar, it just doesn't have the sanitized, sparkly feel of a high end shopping center.
 

buster_broon

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wait wait wait

so if we are going with what it says on the side of the arcade cab

is it now called the NEO GEO MVS PGSAES

This is getting too difficult to follow

but wikipedia states its AES, so we have the answer

och i'm just baiting i dont care

anyway anybody who is a noob to me what you say doesnt count, to all the others it's AES :vik::vik::vik::vik::vik:
 

Takumaji

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I never felt as part of an video game elite or anything, I just always loved the Neo and its games, that's it.

If you take 100% of all the scene-related info found in this thread and back-check some of it, you'll find out that 50% of it is exaggerated, 30% is made up, 40% is the truth, four ounces (or roughly 82.1%) of it are pure paranoia or conspiracy theories and Tak sucks at math.

Since meaningless abbreviations and subtitles are so popular 'round here, I'll stop calling Real Bout 2 "RB2" or "Real Bout 2" but use Real Battle Action Game instead, or better yet, RBAG.

Hey guys, I've been playing RBAG for years now... let's all play RBAG, because RBAG is the truth and RB2 just a silly name some Japanese 'tard came up with.

RBAG rulezZZZz ... doesn't it... :scratch::D
 

aria

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It's an Arcade Home System made by NEC and HudsonSoft.

You've got the right level of sass to prosper here, kid.


[kid seems better than "n00b", but you very well could be older than Gameoz]
 

buster_broon

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RBAG rulezZZZz ... doesn't it... :scratch::D

I love RBAG, but RBAG 2: TN is better

As Mikhail said early on about MVS

I never once said to my pals lets go and play the Neo Multi video system

MVS was never mentioned, lets play Metal Slug, not lets play Metal Slug MVS

what about if you are living in a swish travel lodge, would you say god i love Neo Geo hotel, lets play hotel
 

rugal2000

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I'm feeling slightly paralyzed by the realization of how old I've become in relation to the online history of this scene... but putting that aside for a second, I think I can explain the answer.

Pull up a chair, young ones (or at least those new to this), and I shall tell you of days of yore. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure! (and by "high adventure", I mean people typing things at keyboards... woo!)

[for the sake of sanity, this isn't going to be as long as it could be --however it should trace the lineage of this forum and explain how we got here]

In the before time, there was the DHP Mailing List. Neo fans across the world shared ideas and had fun. Later came the websites. One of several notable websites in the mid-1990s was Neo-Alec's, at the time run by a student (he's actually a member here now). Another website was DolphinLord's. Both had forums, though neither particularly supplanted the mailing lists. However a number of the oldest members here found the online community through these various channels. This was the time of more innocent collecting and far less talk of scams and other BS.

Around 1998/99, the infamous duo of Dion Dakis and Chris Ray appeared on the Neo scene. Dakis had previously appeared on the DHP, asking fairly innocuous questions about the Neo Geo --stuff that anyone getting into the hobby would. Chris Ray has a technical background and is competent with engineering. Both were enthusiastic collectors. However, at one point they decided to start a business that claimed that their conversions were better than the originals, and their inserts (while color coordinated and much more universal than those officially put out by SNK and its licensees) should be used instead of any official inserts. They began claiming that certain games that were only available on MVS were available on NGH/home/AES (the latter was an acronym that they popularized). For a while people believed, and they certainly didn't claim otherwise, that the carts they made were the real, official deal. They started their own mailing list, but things soon went south as individuals picked up on their antics/propaganda and started "disappearing" from their mailing list. They later shifted to the growing platform of Yahoo Clubs (this is still the late 90s), where the founded Neo Geo Heaven. The duo, who soon formed Neo Geo Freak (NGF) for their work, played an effective hand of promotion through claimed exclusivity and exorbitant prices. They claimed that people who purchased their set of high priced conversions (sold as "official NGF") would be "Big Tymers". A lot of people saw them as con men. They did a great job of penetrating the community, and here we see the beginning of the current attitude you mention.

As a response another Yahoo club, DolphinLord's Neo Geo Domain, was founded and became a center of sorts --and the basis for a number of people who ended up here. There was definite sniping between NGF and DolphinLord's, but ultimately the Yahoo Club format was very cumbersome (it only had one, big thread). You should realize that, by this point, the Neo Community --at least this corner-- became about revealing the truths, half-truths and lies that had pervaded and spread.

In August 2000, Shawn, a fairly recent collector and member of the Yahoo Club, decided to launch Neo-Geo.com. Shawn's forum was well built and soon the membership of the Yahoo Club seeded the bulk of this website's original members (DolphinLord became a moderator here). The original membership was pro-collector and virulently anti-ROM-piracy. The extremely valuable domain name quickly drew in more people with interests in the Neo-Geo. In early 2001, not long after the site's formation, another forum named Orochinagi.com was suddenly merged with NG.com after its server shut down --this was brief, dramatically ugly, and unsuccessful (too many differences on key things like ROM piracy) --this kicked up tension, but not as much as NGF:

From the beginning, Shawn wanted this website to be an open forum for ideas and discussion --and important factor to a lot of people who were burned by NGF's claims and lies. Needless to say, when NGF started promoting their wares here, it didn't go nearly as well as it would with a controlled audience. Flames followed. The culmination was the infamous KOF 2000 US edition: After the closure of SNK USA, NGF managed to convince SNK Japan to let them release the game in the English markets, however they made alterations that stamped their URL in certain corners of the insert. After lots and lots of drama, that relationship soon ended, and Shawn's NeoStore became the official release partner for English releases (though he too was subject to intense scrutiny from some members of this forum --after all, who could tell who was being honest?). The end of NGF as a major player was when SNK sued them, had their offices raided, and the practice of NGF "corrected" carts and inserts pretty much faded away by 2003. Some members remained longtime advocates of NGF until the bitter end --though most eventually came around (and often became the most hostile towards those two).

In addition, as was correctly pointed out, the existence of ridiculously high priced games and a market for them led to a number of cheats, scammers and other ne'er-do-wells. There are many more stories, but those were the ones that crafted the attitude of the forum, and explains why it must seem strange for anyone walking in now in 2009... heh.

Want to know more? --there's stuff in this Glossary:
http://www.neo-geo.com/reviews/NeoGlossary/neoglossary.htm


This is a very balanced and fair assessment.
I would also point out for fairness sakes it has to be mentioned that no one has ever proven NGF to be scammers per se in terms of an actual case where money was taken and items not given. The charge of Overpricing egotists and elitists perhaps, guys who wanted to make money first of neo geo and charge extortionate prices definetly, but their biggest crime was destroying genuine inserts and hoarding stock.That said towards 2005-2007 they did release a lot of mint and cheap stock onto the market. Too little too late maybe.

On the other scale of things the neoalec website was rife with a scammer called orochi kaede who many claimed was alec himself. At the time i was ripped off $275 dollars on carts by this person who had a special listed webpage selling items on neo alecs site. Neo alec himself was accused of being the scammer and ended up closing his site without adequaltely resolving the issues. He actually blamed Chris Mullins, who you dont mention bobak as a pioneer. After all no matter what anyone thinks of him, he did produce those pioneering 60 page FAQ's which he made freely available. They were an incredible volume on neo geo to people who wanted to know more in the late 90's era.

I'd also point out that neogeo.com and Shawn was the first place that made games freely available at reasonable prices to any neo fan. you guys really did a great service to neo fans allowing free trading in the selling section, and rooting out scammers and securing new releases for us and new info. we all owe people like shawn and bobak a huge debt for extending our hobby into a whole decade of the 2000's.This site was really hot in its early days a great bunch of lads.

In honesty these days i think this community (at least those posting) is mostly occupied by johhny come lately geeks with nothing interesting to say about neo geo just spamming things up as a place for them to hang around. Some of them got 10,000 worthless posts in 2 years. I been here 8 years plus and i only got 1200 posts. The site it was at its best during 2000-2004. Now i think its dwindled massively and old members like myself only visit sporadically. You take a look at the unrelated topics section the last 2-3 years. The only interesting threads are those started by old members like bobak. The rest are losers asking things like "how can i buy a new pc plug, or i like the buttons on my pc pad, or look at my holiday snaps in wisconsin".

Just my opinion.
 
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Ukyo

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In early 2001, not long after the site's formation, another forum named Orochinagi.com was suddenly merged with NG.com after its server shut down --this was brief, dramatically ugly, and unsuccessful.

this was a pretty big deal; this was like helm's deep neo style. i can't remember another time when the board was overrun with so many fucking douchebags. at the very least, a month or two of pure drama.
 

ilazul

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. You take a look at the unrelated topics section the last 2-3 years. The only interesting threads are those started by old members like bobak. The rest are losers asking things like "how can i buy a new pc plug, or i like the buttons on my pc pad, or look at my holiday snaps in wisconsin".

Just my opinion.

I'd like to see your holiday snaps in wisconsin.

Please?
 

aria

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I would also point out for fairness sakes it has to be mentioned that no one has ever proven NGF to be scammers per se in terms of an actual case where money was taken and items not given.

You sure? As I've gotten older and more experienced with law and business transactions, I know that legal action would've been a very plausible option.
 

Neo Alec

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On the other scale of things the neoalec website was rife with a scammer called orochi kaede who many claimed was alec himself. At the time i was ripped off $275 dollars on carts by this person who had a special listed webpage selling items on neo alecs site. Neo alec himself was accused of being the scammer and ended up closing his site without adequaltely resolving the issues. He actually blamed Chris Mullins, who you dont mention bobak as a pioneer. After all no matter what anyone thinks of him, he did produce those pioneering 60 page FAQ's which he made freely available. They were an incredible volume on neo geo to people who wanted to know more in the late 90's era.
I have no idea where you're getting this from. I was never accused of being a scammer or being Orochi Kaede. You have me confused with Mullins, since I understand some people believed that him and Kaede were the same person. I have no idea because I was never involved. I was never involved in any dealings outside of the rare occasion of selling my own personal Neo stuff. And when I closed the message boards on my site (the site itself never closed) it had nothing at all to do with sales issues (because I was almost never selling anything). Really, I have no idea where you could be gettin this. You are obviously very confused. Please don't state rumors as facts when you clearly have done nothing to verify the information.
 

aria

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Also, Chris Mullins blatantly plagiarized some of his FAQs. Not an honorable person in the least bit.
 

Marek

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People here trust each other to a degree. Where the is trust there will be people abusing it.
 

Praise the Lard

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You sure? As I've gotten older and more experienced with law and business transactions, I know that legal action would've been a very plausible option.

That's a subject that I wish there was more info on. I've always been unclear about the blackbook entry. Perhaps there was a thread here in times past that I missed which detailed it more, as it really needs more clarification. After all, this is typically what is pointed at when it's not all about reprinted inserts and such.

Here's what I read:
0) <mystery>
1) A deal is arranged between Shawn and NGF for over 1400 NGCD and AES games.
2) Dion realizes Shawn actually has money and comes in and says "there's more where that comes from buddy, ho ha big tyme!"
3) <mystery> Shawn works price down $1500 <mystery>
4) NGF ships items.
5) Shock and awe set in when ~$250-300 worth of goods is missing (and I'm assuming the NGCD titles missing are relatively worthless since Shawn does not specify titles). This is roughly, market value wise, slightly over 1% of the entire, obviously bulk discounted, order.
6) NGF does offer Shawn recourse, not a good one but it is recourse. Shawn does not state if he said "No thanks. Send me 3x SS2 euro, and 7x <insert NGCD title(s)>." or what the direct response to that was.
7) <mystery>
8) <mystery>
9) <does not compute>

And the aside: It also seems a bunch of the AES carts were "half freaked" as well, Shawn doesn't say if he attempted to get any sort of refund on these games as they are obviously not what he wanted or what anyone would have really expected.

In the end, did Shawn or did not Shawn continue to have dealings with NGF after this event? For me, that ends up being the most telling thing of all.
 
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