Why does the past of this forum feel so shady?

[Koopa64]

Scammers... "Big Tymers"... Assholes... Why does every mention of this place's past have one or more of the aforementioned words in it? I only came here because there's almost nothing left of the Neo community outside of this place. It detracts from the Neo itself, what went wrong?

Actually, I think I may have answered my own question, the system was expensive so I guess naturally, scammers would be attracted. But regardless, I find it rather annoying how tarnished the NEO-GEO name is because of crap like scammers and people like Chris Ray (who apparently are worse than scammers).

[Spazmonkey]

Well, think about it, with any tight knit community that has been around this long, something is bound to happen. It really isn't that surprising that people came and shook up the site, happens everywhere at some point or another, it seems it's human nature to want to do stupid shit.

Anyway, come for the games, stay for teh drama!

[black_7]

He's right it's just human nature. In every barrel there are bound to be a few bad apples...

[voltronbadass]

seems to me that the shady past has been helped mold this place into the tight knit community it is today. I feel pretty safe buying and selling on this forum. This community really has your back if your a member in good standing

[Koopa64]

Well, think about it, with any tight knit community that has been around this long, something is bound to happen. It really isn't that surprising that people came and shook up the site, happens everywhere at some point or another, it seems it's human nature to want to do stupid shit.

Anyway, come for the games, stay for teh drama!

Well I guess that's true, there's been scammers in the NES community before, but the point I was trying to get at was why was it so bad here? Was it because the Neo was for a long time, a niche system?

seems to me that the shady past has been helped mold this place into the tight knit community it is today. I feel pretty safe buying and selling on this forum. This community really has your back if your a member in good standing

I haven't done any transactions in the market forums before or ever so I wouldn't exactly understand that point, though I guess it comes hand in hand with all the scammings. =/

[Xian Xi]

I think you need to do some reading so you fully understand.

[Koopa64]

I did, there's plenty of reference to the many infamous scammers around here, though considering it again, those were probably years back huh?

[voltronbadass]

I think you need to do some reading so you fully understand.

true! read the to all would be scamers sticky in the market section.

the big bear bailout in the "very fucking cheap MVS" thread is a good example of the good people on this forum

[aria]

I'm feeling slightly paralyzed by the realization of how old I've become in relation to the online history of this scene... but putting that aside for a second, I think I can explain the answer.

Pull up a chair, young ones (or at least those new to this), and I shall tell you of days of yore. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure! (and by "high adventure", I mean people typing things at keyboards... woo!)

[for the sake of sanity, this isn't going to be as long as it could be --however it should trace the lineage of this forum and explain how we got here]

In the before time, there was the DHP Mailing List. Neo fans across the world shared ideas and had fun. Later came the websites. One of several notable websites in the mid-1990s was Neo-Alec's, at the time run by a student (he's actually a member here now). Another website was DolphinLord's. Both had forums, though neither particularly supplanted the mailing lists. However a number of the oldest members here found the online community through these various channels. This was the time of more innocent collecting and far less talk of scams and other BS.

Around 1998/99, the infamous duo of Dion Dakis and Chris Ray appeared on the Neo scene. Dakis had previously appeared on the DHP, asking fairly innocuous questions about the Neo Geo --stuff that anyone getting into the hobby would. Chris Ray has a technical background and is competent with engineering. Both were enthusiastic collectors. However, at one point they decided to start a business that claimed that their conversions were better than the originals, and their inserts (while color coordinated and much more universal than those officially put out by SNK and its licensees) should be used instead of any official inserts. They began claiming that certain games that were only available on MVS were available on NGH/home/AES (the latter was an acronym that they popularized). For a while people believed, and they certainly didn't claim otherwise, that the carts they made were the real, official deal. They started their own mailing list, but things soon went south as individuals picked up on their antics/propaganda and started "disappearing" from their mailing list. They later shifted to the growing platform of Yahoo Clubs (this is still the late 90s), where the founded Neo Geo Heaven. The duo, who soon formed Neo Geo Freak (NGF) for their work, played an effective hand of promotion through claimed exclusivity and exorbitant prices. They claimed that people who purchased their set of high priced conversions (sold as "official NGF") would be "Big Tymers". A lot of people saw them as con men. They did a great job of penetrating the community, and here we see the beginning of the current attitude you mention.

As a response another Yahoo club, DolphinLord's Neo Geo Domain, was founded and became a center of sorts --and the basis for a number of people who ended up here. There was definite sniping between NGF and DolphinLord's, but ultimately the Yahoo Club format was very cumbersome (it only had one, big thread). You should realize that, by this point, the Neo Community --at least this corner-- became about revealing the truths, half-truths and lies that had pervaded and spread.

In August 2000, Shawn, a fairly recent collector and member of the Yahoo Club, decided to launch Neo-Geo.com. Shawn's forum was well built and soon the membership of the Yahoo Club seeded the bulk of this website's original members (DolphinLord became a moderator here). The original membership was pro-collector and virulently anti-ROM-piracy. The extremely valuable domain name quickly drew in more people with interests in the Neo-Geo. In early 2001, not long after the site's formation, another forum named Orochinagi.com was suddenly merged with NG.com after its server shut down --this was brief, dramatically ugly, and unsuccessful (too many differences on key things like ROM piracy) --this kicked up tension, but not as much as NGF:

From the beginning, Shawn wanted this website to be an open forum for ideas and discussion --and important factor to a lot of people who were burned by NGF's claims and lies. Needless to say, when NGF started promoting their wares here, it didn't go nearly as well as it would with a controlled audience. Flames followed. The culmination was the infamous KOF 2000 US edition: After the closure of SNK USA, NGF managed to convince SNK Japan to let them release the game in the English markets, however they made alterations that stamped their URL in certain corners of the insert. After lots and lots of drama, that relationship soon ended, and Shawn's NeoStore became the official release partner for English releases (though he too was subject to intense scrutiny from some members of this forum --after all, who could tell who was being honest?). The end of NGF as a major player was when SNK sued them, had their offices raided, and the practice of NGF "corrected" carts and inserts pretty much faded away by 2003. Some members remained longtime advocates of NGF until the bitter end --though most eventually came around (and often became the most hostile towards those two).

In addition, as was correctly pointed out, the existence of ridiculously high priced games and a market for them led to a number of cheats, scammers and other ne'er-do-wells. There are many more stories, but those were the ones that crafted the attitude of the forum, and explains why it must seem strange for anyone walking in now in 2009... heh.

Want to know more? --there's stuff in this Glossary:
http://www.neo-geo.com/reviews/NeoGl...eoglossary.htm

[Spike Spiegel]

That was a good read, Bobak. Really takes me back. I too was on the DHP list, then/and Neo Alec's (loved that place). I actually bought a then new Metal Slug 2 from Chris Ray... thought he was a cool guy with an awesome collection, and came here as soon as I had heard about it. I didn't hear about it soon enough, it would seem, as I've not been around as long as the "old guys", but still a long time.

Never met Dion, but I have dealt with him. What a huge douche that guy was. Christ.

[kernow]

Koopa 64 has now realised how pompous bobak can be, that if he didn't already

[Koopa64]

Wow! That's quite the post Bobak. :Ah screw it:

Thanks for posting all of that, I didn't know there was a merger before, also thanks for clearing up the whole NGF thing for me, greatly appreciated!

So I suppose the security of the market forums has been around for the past... 6 years or so? That's reassuring.

[aria]

So I suppose the security of the market forums has been around for the past... 6 years or so? That's reassuring.

Its never fool proof. Caveat emptor.

Koopa 64 has now realised how pompous bobak can be, that if he didn't already

He's just jealous because he didn't have the patience or will to explain it himself.

[Lovergoat]

Caveat venditor also applies here. Or there may well be an incident involving a plane ticket.

[kernow]

Its never fool proof. Caveat emptor.



He's just jealous because he didn't have the patience or will to explain it himself.

OR THE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE

[Koopa64]

Its never fool proof. Caveat emptor.



He's just jealous because he didn't have the patience or will to explain it himself.

I didn't get the whole pompous remark, you seem to know what you're talking about IMO. >.>

[kernow]

hahah

[Mikhail]

NGF CGE Booth - 2001

[aria]

I didn't get the whole pompous remark, you seem to know what you're talking about IMO. >.>

We're Ex-es.

[kernow]

[Koopa64]

^LOL

[LoneSage]

man I'm tellin you guys I coulda sworn people used the term AES back in at least the mid-90s, before Dakis and Ray

[kernow]

man I'm tellin you guys I coulda sworn people used the term AES back in at least the mid-90s, before Dakis and Ray

how would you know, you were like 3 years old in the 90's

[LoneSage]

how would you know, you were like 3 years old in the 90's

I still read lotsa gaming mags and remember them previewing games for the 'AES'

[Praise the Lard]

While the history of this message board owes a lot to things like DHP/onelist (oh!)/Yahoo Groups, the history of the NG community as a whole runs MUCH deeper.

All the real action started over half a decade prior to the aforementioned channels, on usenet. An active community with plenty of knowledgeable individuals. This is where a very elite, not to mention secretive, group of individuals that were dedicated to collecting Neo Geo home carts formed, the "Neo Geo Illuminati" for lack of better term. Their history was pretty innocent until about 1995 at which point they abandoned usenet in favor of moving underground. From that point forward they used their numbers and consolidated wealth to influence the home market is every way imaginable. You want _shady_? Here's a nice example: In 2003 they decided to horde every available english AES Sengoku 3.. See many of those these days do we? Most people still haven't figured out how valuable this game truly is now. What used to be one of the most common games is now one of the rarest. The word "ironic" comes to mind.

I've really said too much though, that example is a MINOR footnote in what they've done. The bread crumb trail is fragmented, but does still exist if you know how to look for it. Though you should prepare, this is one rabbit hole that looks almost inviting.. It's quite the opposite.