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Thread: SERIOUS WINDJAMMERS PLAYERS ONLY

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    SERIOUS WINDJAMMERS PLAYERS ONLY

    Haven't seen a Windjammers strategy thread worthwhile. Would love to hear what you other serious Windjammers players have discovered about the game. Here is what I have picked up. Here is a great character breakdown from Gamefaqs.

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/564208/27027


    Positioning

    I tend to play with a mix of soccer goalie strategy and tennis strategy. The tennis part being that I always return back to the center of the court after every return. The soccer (football) part of the strategy is that you have to narrow the angles that your opponent is shooting at to make it harder for them to get around you. Both of these can be achieved by standing in what I have found to be the 'sweet spot' on the court.

    You want to position your character in the center, and a little in front of the net. Reason for playing back a little is two fold. The further back you are the more time you have to react to the shots, plain and simple. And in this game you will need everything you can get. Two, you don't want any shots curving around you, and the further back you are, the more easily you can prevent this. Remember though, the game will allow you to play all the way into the goal if you want, which might seem like a good idea, but if you play too far back the power shots will knock you back into your own goal and you will get scored on.

    Returning to the sweet spot in the center is very important to me. Most people don't realize you only have to worry about two directions in the game, above and below you. Most characters' dash will stretch to the wall on either side of you, so if you are in the center, you are always one dash away from catching the shot. Since your character is dashing, you will usually catch it no matter where it is on the board, or it will glance off of you and set up a power shot. Either way, if you are in the center and you dash in the direction the frisbee is going, you should stop it no matter if it is closer to you or the wall.

    Because of this 'sweet spot' gameplay that most people will adopt, including the CPU on higher levels, you will have to try and force your opponent to stick on one side. If you can get him to stay close to a wall, either by physcing him out or by forcing this position, then you can put a shot on the opposite side where it will be out of his range.

    Shot types

    There are several shot types in the game. You have normals, curves, fast shots, hammer throws, and specials. The first three are available to all characters, while each.

    The normals are just that. You can vary the speed and power of these shots by waiting to throw the frisbee. The longer you wait, the less speed and power you have. You can only hold it for about 2 seconds before it forces you to release it at a very slow speed. Varying the speed of your shots can add some mix up, and help you play mind games. I've pshcyed out some players by throwing out a slow one after a fast exchange, and had them dash all around trying to get it because they are expecting a fast one, and dash too early and end up trying to dash back around to catch it.

    The curves are achieved by making a fireball, or quarter circle motion while throwing it. As a matter of fact you would execute a curve just like a fireball in Street Fighter. You can change the direction of the curve by using different quarter circles. For instance, if you are at the top part of the screen on P2 side, you could curve it down by inputting+. Curves can be really useful the more you play. It changes the exchange from only straight angles. Every now and then you can curve it around another player, but more often than not I find the curve to be most useful in bouncing shots off the wall. A curve shot can produce very unusual bounces that will easily trick your opponent. Each character has different curve attributes, so some can produce better results than others. Please refer to the Gamefaqs link to see a character breakdown.

    Fast shots. Fast shots are produced by releasing the frisbee at the exact moment you catch it. You will know if you are successfull because it will make a different noise, leave a blurred tail behind the shot, and go really freakin fast. This is where the game becomes nailbiting. If two players know what they are doing, they can exchange one fast shot after the other resulting in blistering fast matches. The fast shot gets really interesting because you can curve them by using the curve technique described above. A curved fast shot off the wall can produce results that are almost unblockable. Once again though, it's all about mind games and mix-up, so if you find yourself in a fast exchange, you can slow it down to throw them off, but be warned, a slow shot can be more easily manipulated into a fast shot or a special by your opponent.

    Hammer throws. My favorite choice. They come in two varieties. Charged and uncharged. Instead of pressing , you press to execute. The uncharged version throws the frisbee up over your opponents head, but is very slow. It can easily be returned as a special, because your opponent has plenty of time to get under it and charge up. I only use them if I have someone who starts playing in the net to force them back. The charged version achieved by charging up like you are going to do a special, but press the button instead. The charged version goes up and comes down very fast and goes straight for the net. You can fire it dead center, or towards one of the two corners. I prefer firing towards a corner, as the one towards the center is fairly easy to catch. It's really hard to block if you aim for a corner, because it goes so fast that your opponent has only enough time to choose one direction, and usually they have to anticipate and guess because there isn't enough time to react. This basically creates a 50/50 chance of scoring. It's also useful when your opponent expects a super, or is back in their goal because it has serious knockdown power on most characters.

    Super moves. They are unique to each character and achieved by getting under an overhead shot and charging up. This can either happen by getting under an uncharged hammer throw, or by having the frisbee glance off you character and flip in the air. Some characters have better supers than others. The least useful to me is Steve Miller's, where it goes down the wall and accelerates as it goes. I have not tested it with all characters, but some have a second super availible to them. If you execute a curved shot while charged for a super, then you will throw out a very fast loop de loop style throw that can be very weird to judge. I think they are easy to catch, but they certainly have a big phsyce out factor to them. Also just like normals, you can vary the speed of the shots by waiting to throw.

    Character selection
    The selection depends on your playstyle, contrary to what the selection screen says. It says, easy, medium, and hard, but it really is a difference in speed and power. The reasoning behind the easy, medium, hard, is that if you have a slow, powerfull character, you don't get any second chances at picking up a shot that goes by you, as you are two slow to come back across the screen. Really, no character should have any second chances once you know what you are doing. Really, the difference is in positioning. It is easier to catch a slow character in a bad position than a fast character, because a fast character can correct their position in time to field a shot. Because of this fast characters tend to be at a disadvantage on the wider boards. But a power character can throw much faster shots that are harder to react to, and can throw you into the goal if you are too far back. This gives the power characters an advantage on the narrow boards. Personally, I prefer the fast characters for my strategy because it is based on positioning.

    Clock "Mis-Management"
    This is really interesting to me. You can set the settings to do rounds by points, rather than time, and I think in human games it should be done, because the clock can really be abused. On the other hand, it adds a whole level of strategy. One thing I discovered was that once you are ahead, you can eat time away by slowing the pace of the match. It can be dangerous to throw a lot of slow shots for reasons stated above, but if you are good at catching fast shots and specials, you can really make a comeback difficult. Furthermore, points can be scored with a second on the clock (I've done it and had it done to me), so if you get the frisbee, you can use your two second hold time to run the clock out if you are ahead and down to the wire. A really interesting strategy is if you are far enough ahead, you can let your opponent score on you to secure a victory. The clock runs throughout the entire score animations, so a score can eat up almost five seconds. Combine that with the fact that you will get the frisbee after being scored on, and can hold it for two seconds, and you can eat about seven whole seconds off. I do this on the computer all the time, because the computer at high levels is a bastard, and if get ahead, I use this to protect my lead, as the computer has the tendency to score miracoulous rapid fire points when it is behind.

    Anyways, that's all I have for now. Let me know what you guys do.
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  2. #2
    JammaNationX
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    I play exactly the same. Great stuff. One thing I like to do is hold the disc when charging up to make the person commit to one side then release it.

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    Your post is great caleb1883. I did sort of a guide in 2df forums, when it was still active, so now it's all erased What you say is relevant and it was a great read !
    I did something like a tier list too, tell me if you guys agree. Note that this tier list goes for experimented players :
    1/ Wessel/Mita : I can't tell who is the best. Wessel is very powerful, got great slide (so no matter if he's actually slow), but got a predictable super, if you look well. Slides are annoying, because they are slight, and sometimes deadly, as the disc can stick to the walls. Mita got speed, insane curves (try from bottom to up, like a yoga flame), the most deadly super pattern (you can mix it depending on your position in the court), but she can more be crushed in the goals on supers, and her normals are slow.
    2/ B. Yoo : First, I thought he sucked 'cause of its super, the lamest of the game admit it. But I realized someday he had "A"mark for dexterity, which I didn't know the meaning. Dexterity is he ability of a char to toss the disc into super without having to slide under it to charge. Yoo has insane dexterity indeed. You can spam spinning supers all along using his ability. Be aware of the reversals tho.
    3/ Costa : his Hammer throws are the fastest of the game. Don't abuse it, but mix it up with standard supers, which are great (still, do them far from the net).
    4/ Biaggi : A Medium skilled char, with no outstanding ability, nor awful one : good stuff is to do standard super when you are just next to a wall : push and the direction of the wall (if it's up to your char in the screen, push up, simple as that ) : the shot then goes straight and real quick !!
    5/ Scott : To me, the worst char of the game. Yet, he doesn't suck at all : the game is well balanced. Though, his super is predictable, he doesn't have cool tricks as other have (from what I know), he just throws the disc really quickly, that's for sure ! He is very solid at catching supers without being thrown in the goal's nets.

    NOW if there are players who wanna play on ggpo or supercade someday tell it to me !!!!! I'm craving for folks to play with !

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    Caleb 1881, you did a great job ! Good read, nicely explained ! I did a guide too, in the old 2df forums, but now it's erased
    At that time i tried to do sort of a tier list : note this is relevant for experimented players only, as for beginners it may not be accurate.
    1/ Wessel / Mita : I can't tell if one of them is really better than the other. Each one got his strenghts :
    -Wessel got a really great sliding power (which cancels the fact he walks very slow), has powerfull normals, his spins are slight but can be deadly (and can stick to the walls ! great tricks with that). If you know how to play, he's very hard to score against, and very dangerous when he netplays. His biggest flaw is the standard super, which his quite predictable. Though, you can do amazing tricks in courts like clay or concrete, with the blocks in the net : disc can go like randomly and be VERY hard to catch. You have to zone godly though to perform this trick.
    -Mita is very fast, got outstanding curves (try yoga flame motion from up to down (or down to up) in the direction of your goals !!), and best of it all, got the most horrible standard super of the game : it can vary depending on your position in the court, making different kind of waves (stretched or large waves). Her flaws are her normals speed, and the fact she's weak and can be smashed in her goal if you don't zone well when defending for supers coming.
    2/ B. Yoo : First, you may think he kinda sucks. Mostly because his super is the lamest of the game. BUT, he got "A" mark for dexterity. What is it ? Simple : great ability( when he tosses for charging super) for the disc to stay just above him, meaning every or so toss are equal to a super !! Spam spin supers with him, mixed with hammer throws (very very rarely standard). Be careful with reversals tho. But his footsie is very solid.
    3/ Costa : Good overall abilities, and most of all : best hammer throw in the game, very fast startup. Don't use it too much tho, because his super is nice too (note that you'd better do it far from the net, for it to go in every directions and not just waving in the center of the court). His spin super has the slowest startup : use it wisely.
    4/ Biaggi : average abilities, but still good. Good trick is to be just right next to the wall and press the direction the wall is from you (just up or down) when doing the standard super : the disc will go straight forward really quick. His basic super is not that good, but can sometimes confuse some players.
    5/ Scott : very powerful nomals, but slow speed, short slides (be carfeful with lobs if you go to the net), and predictable super, though powerful : as for Wessel, in concrete and clay courts, you can hit the blocks for broken patterns !

    I'm strongly looking for solid opponents in this game, on ggpo or supercade. Do NOT hesitate, and contact or pm me if you wanna go for a challenge !

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    Timid Neo Newbie

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    match time is short

    i bought this game on Neo Geo Aes but the match time is 30 seconds and i cant find where to change the match time , is there any way i can change it like in neo geo CD version ?

    thanks

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    The Real Al Bundy ECZangief's Avatar
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    WOW. I was checking this out the other day, and just finished the rest of the article. It's pretty great. Great info, thanks for writing it up :]

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    Quote Originally Posted by neomania View Post
    i bought this game on Neo Geo Aes but the match time is 30 seconds and i cant find where to change the match time , is there any way i can change it like in neo geo CD version ?

    thanks
    Thats what always ruined the game for me the time limit. At least in the cd version you could play a decent game.

    I havent really been following the neo scene the last 5-6 years are u guys telling me even one of these unibios things wont let u change the time to the cd version limit or at the other side of the coin, the points limit up to 25 instead of the putrid and laughable 10 or 15 or whatever it is?

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    On the mvs, you can set the time limit from 1 to 99 on the softdip. The lack of a time limit select option on the home system is a gross oversight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SNKorSWM View Post
    On the mvs, you can set the time limit from 1 to 99 on the softdip. The lack of a time limit select option on the home system is a gross oversight.
    Sometimes even when you can change the time limit its pointless, as since you cant increase the "points to win" score from 15 up to say 25 you know that the game will be over in 40 seconds even with the most skilled of players competing.
    A real fuck up by SNK

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    . SNKorSWM's Avatar
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    I can understand the lack of changing the points to score for a win in the mvs means quicker turnover time for arcade operators. But that's not the case for the home release. The option settings isn't just bare bones, it's simply non-existent.

  11. #11
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    Wind Jammers (MVS) TOURNAMENT
    Animazement in Raleigh, NC
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    I can't tell you how happy I am that someone noticed this. I put in some serious time on this game in the past, and kind of gave it up when I had no one to play it with. I still want to attempt an official world record for it, as at one point I could play all the way through against the computer on hard almost once a session. After I made this post I had one response and thought I was the only other person who played it seriously.

    Reading through my old post, I noticed a mistake. I meant to say fast characters have the advantage on wide boards, because they are more mobile and can avoid getting caught on one side. I also feel that the boards with bumpers in the middle should be banned from human vs human tournaments, as it adds an element of randomness/luck that can cause a match to unfairly go in someones favor. I haven't found a way to use the bumpers skillfully, as it seems it bounces differently everytime you hit them.

    Great commentary on the character specifics. I never could figure out the small things, such as dexterity, about each character. I also can't believe this isn't an essential title in the Neo-Geo library. It is one of the best multi player games I've found period. When I first got my Neo years ago, it got the most play among my friends at my birthday because it is so easy to pick up and play. Most of them hardly played video games period, so the fact they could get into this says a lot about the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by rugal2000 View Post
    Sometimes even when you can change the time limit its pointless, as since you cant increase the "points to win" score from 15 up to say 25 you know that the game will be over in 40 seconds even with the most skilled of players competing.
    A real fuck up by SNK
    I believe it was Data East's screw up. As for time limits, the unibios should allow you to set it from 30 seconds to infinite. Points I don't think you can adjust. But really considering you score 3 to 5 points at a time, in a first to 14 match 40 seconds is about all you need. I think 99 seconds per round should be the tournament standard as it pushes players to play for points, and when that happens the 99 seconds will be a safety net to make sure the rounds don't last forever more than an abusable part of the game. Because anyone who is playing a serious Windjammers match knows it will be over way faster than 99 seconds. Seeing that you have best 2/3 rounds, at 14 points per round, I think with the clock on 99 seconds it sets the time per game perfectly.

    Please keep playing this game. I would love to see human competition, and tournaments. If I wasn't so out of practice, I would drive to the tournament next weekend. Post your high scores here too. I want to see where we are all at.
    Last edited by caleb1883; 05-22-2010 at 03:12 AM.
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    Very cool thread Caleb. Windjammers was 95% of the reason I got back into Neo Geo and this being one of the first threads on here I was really impressed on your strategy write up.

    I was also amazed they had this game at a giant tourney called Midwest Championships I'm sure a lot of people heard of that.

    There also having a tourney for this game at Devastation in Phoenix this weekend as well, one of my friends I play with a lot is going to enter I hope he wins.

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    Hi guys, I just uploaded this. Two top Euro players. If there is more interest, I will upload more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dTPlpQn08

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    JammaNationX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayfish View Post
    Hi guys, I just uploaded this. Two top Euro players. If there is more interest, I will upload more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dTPlpQn08
    Not bad but if that's top Euro then it's sad.

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    *talks shit about GGPO players, refuses to play on GGPO himself*

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    Jeffkun34 brought this over to ilazuls on Sunday. We played for probably an hour. Forgot how fun the game was.

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    *talks shit about GGPO players, refuses to play on GGPO himself*
    I can't agree more. Xian Xi, if you think you so good, come and play instead of finding reasons not to get beaten badly. I can tell the match posted here is a good match, 'cause I never lost a set in my life in that game, therefore I think I can judge quite accurately who's good at it or not. If you can't prove your point at being a good player, then don't diss players you'd lose against.

  19. #19
    JammaNationX
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    I only play in person, there's no way I would play this online. The timing is too precise. If you ever come to Hawaii or if I ever go to France we can meetup and have some good times.

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    I wish unlimited match time was a dip option. Hate having to use unibios for features that should have been standard.

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    JammaNationX
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolmar View Post
    I can't agree more. Xian Xi, if you think you so good, come and play instead of finding reasons not to get beaten badly. I can tell the match posted here is a good match, 'cause I never lost a set in my life in that game, therefore I think I can judge quite accurately who's good at it or not. If you can't prove your point at being a good player, then don't diss players you'd lose against.
    And for the record I was referring to the guy playing the girl in that video not being a top player. If that's you then you aren't very good. If you're the guy then yes you are good.

    My comment about it being sad was more towards the match itself as it wasn't exciting like the last Euro vid I saw of Windjammers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xian Xi View Post
    And for the record I was referring to the guy playing the girl in that video not being a top player. If that's you then you aren't very good. If you're the guy then yes you are good.

    My comment about it being sad was more towards the match itself as it wasn't exciting like the last Euro vid I saw of Windjammers.
    Yes, I agree. It wasn't as exciting as some past matches I have seen. The girl player was taking a risky strategy of crowding the net, and it didn't pay off so I'm not sure why the player kept doing it. People forget that this is mind games just like street fighter. Your opponent can change their tactics and you have to adjust. Whoever was playing the girl did not make the adjustment, and kept using the same failing strategy every time.

    Also, where are the videos from all the stateside tournaments?
    Last edited by caleb1883; 07-15-2010 at 01:48 AM.
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    All in all, I'm a bit disappointed because there's a lot, lot of talking but no playing while it's totally possible (though not irl -like). If someone wants to PLAY (-which seems doubtful, tbh), lemme know, I'll always be up for a real challenge.

  24. #24
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    Nice post!

    Windjammers is in a league of its own. Those other clones have nothing on it. I play pretty much the same as you as well. Curving the disc, and timing a fast throwback are must learns. My roomate and myslef have some epic drunken matches from time to time on the cabinet. It got to the point where we would be curving or special throwing every shot and sometimes not even getting a point. He would get so pist when I would pick off his special shot and retaliate with my own special, that he would catch my special and throw it back as another special.

    I think the best strategy is switching things up. I might curve the disc for 3 straight matches, and then when I get to the top of the screen and catch a throw, quickly toss it straigt back as he would dive downward expecting another curve. I also use the lob sparingly. It can be a good move when done right. But if you do it all the time it's pretty useless.

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  25. #25
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    This question seems to have been asked before, but with no real clear answer: Is it possible to change the "points to win" on MVS with a Unibios? I've been messing with the game on Unibios 2.3 in MAME, but the cheat menu for the game doesn't seem to have that ability. Is there some manual editing you need to do somewhere or is it just not possible?

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