2008-09 UEFA Champions League

Can they still call it the "champions" league if teams other than the league champion are in the competition?

Watched the ManU-Villareal match a little.

I've said this before, but Gary Neville is so average. He was never flashy, but he could deliver crosses. Today, not so much. I know he hasn't played in a while, but still, he wasn't that good before anyway. On a semi-related Neville note, I love the Premier League Fan Zone on Fox Soccer Channel. On last night's game, Stoke v. Everton, the guys says something like "it's terrible to get megged, but it's even worse to get megged by Phil Neville."

Giggs is also past being useful at this level. He's still a good player, but not effective enough at the highest level of competition. He doesn't release the ball early enough. I appreciate the loyalty to him from SAF, but at the same time, it surprises me that he still gets in games given what's at stake.

Ronaldo got in the game for about 30 minutes. He looked pretty good. I love watching JS Park run around the field, but he's so small, he gets out-muscled a lot.

Didn't see any other games and forgot this was starting.

I'm really happy Atletico started off with a bang. I'm rooting for them, gotta support the only Mexican coach to have some success in Europe!

Here's hoping Aguero keeps up the good play.

I agree with u about neville.
But giggs is far from finished at this level. he belongs at the top of european football still .Its no secret that giggs and scholes coming back to form in the last 2 years was a huge part of why man utd won the champions league this year and why they also came back to form last year.
Scholes and Giggs have had a huge influence on rooney and ronaldo's game.
They are worth a good 25-30 games this year as nani and anderson get better and better.

rugal2000 said:

I agree with u about neville.
But giggs is far from finished at this level. he belongs at the top of european football still .Its no secret that giggs and scholes coming back to form in the last 2 years was a huge part of why man utd won the champions league this year and why they also came back to form last year.
Scholes and Giggs have had a huge influence on rooney and ronaldo's game.
They are worth a good 25-30 games this year as nani and anderson get better and better.

Click to expand...

Man Utd has some serious problems if they continue like this. Roondog is out of shape. Ronaldo is a cunt. Tevez can't find the back of the net.

Maybe I'm used to watching Giggs move effortlessly around and wreaking havok on defenses and don't appreciate the things he does well.

Scholes, I love. If he was still involved with the England team, I think a lot of their problems would be solved. I hope a part of the reason that Rooney is sitting back to distribute the ball is because of Scholes' absence. But I suppose it could be because he's out of shape.

Nani and Anderson do amazing things, just not everytime out. They are really young though.

Ronaldo may be a cunt, but he is exiting to watch. I don't have high standards, I just want to be entertained. He is a disrespectful showoff and the things he does out there leaves the other team no option but to take him out. I'm surprised he doesn't get hit more.

I think ManU has enough time to get it together in the Champions League to make a decent run, but they can't afford to keep giving away points in the EPL.

I think Chelsea wins this weekend. But I always think Chelsea will win. I don't like it, but they do win a lot.

Give them some time, they started just like that last season and look where they end up.

Berba FTW!!

I really didn't intend for this to be a ManU thread.

In response to the quality of the Seria A thread, how did the Italian teams do? Not just results but actual performance. I read the Juve looked pretty bad in spite of the result. I think Roma lost. I know Inter won and I think Fiorentina won as well.

Yep man u cant afford to lose another 3 points today that said fergusons teams have always had a knack of roaring back.

Rooney is demoralised by always having to make sacrifices for his team and he is also unfit

Ronaldo isnt half as skilled as he thinks. To put him next to a gheroge Hagi or gianfranco zola or paolo di candio in terms of pure skill let alone a maradona is a joke.
What ronaldo has is the spirit and attitude of a winner, blistering pace a very good strike of the ball , a great brain, he's also a good header of the ball. He's dedicated to his proffesion unlike some of the british players.Thats what makes him who he is.

Both liverpool and chelsea have better squads this year. Arsenal will be in there, and teams like villa and portsmouth are improving all the time. Plus there is the spectre of man citys billions.

About the Italian teams, they did reasonably well in europe. I thought Juve looked good. They beat a very very good team in Zenit. I guess overall the Italian top teams are dominated by older superstars who can still do the job, as it is a far more christian country than the UK where all of the football stars are heathens more concerned with drinking, screwing and late nights and making money from commercials than being dedicated like most of the latin or catholic bought up guys playing in Italy. eg del pierro,nedved, inzaghi, maldini etc etc. I heard Cafu only just got released at age 39 by Milan
That said Giggs and scholes are also true proffesionals who have more or less shunned the typical excesses of the typical EPL player. Giggs was beckham before beckham in his late teens and early 20's but since than he has been a model proffesional and thats why u should expect giggs and scholes to be around at Man U in some playing capacity at age 35-36.
Roma looked like shit being beaten by an unknown romanian team.

Final is now set

Two entertaining teams in the final.

Barcelona's defense looks iffy with injuries and suspensions though.

I didn't watch the Chelsea v Barca second leg, but saw the highlights. Watching the four pk appeals out of context, I think the calls were 50-50. It's bad that they all happened in the same game, but I've seen each incident happen in separate games and not get called. In fact, if the ref had called any of the four, he'd be attacked by Barca fans for deciding the outcome.

The Pique handball was the worst, but Valdes was coming out and looked like he may have got to the flick. Besides, Pique's hand was already up when the ball hit it.

The Eto'o back/shoulder ball was sailing high and wide. HE jumped up as high as he could and the ball hit his shoulder. The ball was going nowhere dangerous.

The two wrestling "no calls" in the box are made all the time. I've seen the pk call made as well, but sometimes if the attacking player doesn't try hard enough to stay on his feet, the ref waves play on.

I think may take the morning off of work to watch the game so I don't have to search for a good stream all morning.

Manchester is going to take it, Bi-Champions

Arthas said:

Manchester is going to take it, Bi-Champions

Click to expand...

probably will. Barca is going to be without both starting fullbacks. Puyol returns, but that's it. Even if they get Henry back, their problem is and has been the defence, now more than ever.

barca gol - by eto

GOOOOOOOOOOOOL by my man MESSI I wonder if Ronaldo will get best player of the year since he didnt do shit in the Champions Final.

Barca wins. Looks like Manchester got worked even though for the first 10 minutes it looked like they would dominate the game until Eto's gol demotivated them completely.

I'm laughing at all those wanna be manU fans who cant pick their own club but has to pick the club Ronaldo is in.

Neo Geo MVS said:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOL by my man MESSI I wonder if Ronaldo will get best player of the year since he didnt do shit in the Champions Final.

Click to expand...

Highly unlikely. Too much fanfare for Messi. I'd be shocked if he doesn't get the ballon d'or.

wasabi said:

Highly unlikely. Too much fanfare for Messi. I'd be shocked if he doesn't get the ballon d'or.

Click to expand...

Barça did a dream season.

the whole team play was fantastic and that highlights Messi a lot.

Altough he'll get the crown, I still think he wouldn't get it if it wasn't for Xavi and Iniesta. Those are really the top in Barça's lineup.
Barça can do it without Messi. They can't without Xavi and Iniesta.

Barcelona thoroughly deserved to win. Xavi and Iniesta are awesome players, probably the best midfield partnership in the world.

It was a mistake to play Ronaldo as the main striker. He is a much better winger. Tevez should be the main striker and Rooney should play just behind him. He was also wasted on the wing.

Atro said:

Barça did a dream season.

the whole team play was fantastic and that highlights Messi a lot.

Altough he'll get the crown, I still think he wouldn't get it if it wasn't for Xavi and Iniesta. Those are really the top in Barça's lineup.
Barça can do it without Messi. They can't without Xavi and Iniesta.

Click to expand...

He man 38 gols this season you must be joking if you think Barca can do it without him, I will give credit to Xavi and Iniesta but to say Barca could be tri-champions without messi is bullshit.

wasabi said:

Highly unlikely. Too much fanfare for Messi. I'd be shocked if he doesn't get the ballon d'or.

Click to expand...

Fanfare? You are joking right wasabi, Ronaldo got a hell of alot more fanfare than Messi did. At least Messi doesn't do those stupid faces when he missed a shot or yells to himself like Ronaldo does. Messi just plays the game he ain't trying to look like the shit or be pretty boy floyd like Ronaldo, Messi just plays and thats all he cares about.

I cringe whenever I see a Neo Geo MVS reply to a soccer/football post. I get it, you like Argrentina and Messi. Both are very good and deserve your affection.

Messi is a great player and will win the World Player of the Year. He scored the most goals for the best team in the world. He's on the cover of ESPN the Magazine. He is not underappreciated/disrespected. He does not need you to defend him.

Xavi and Iniesta were fabulous. I follow ManU more than Barcelona, and I thought ManU was going to win, but it seemed that those two guys always had the ball. I can't believe that the possession percentage was as close as reported. Barcelona had much more meaningful possession. The goal opened up the game for Barcelona, ManU could not get it together. If ManU had scored an equalizer, it would not have been a fair result.

Rooney was terrible. Almost like the real Ronaldo in the 98 WC final. Great all the way up to the big game, then lays an egg. Vidic got turned inside out on the first goal and Van der Saar got a finger on Eto'o's cheeky near post shot. Evra gave away the second goal too. BTW, how does a midget, who's the best player in the world, get an unmarked header for a goal in a final? Puyol also played great after not having the best season.

Neo Geo MVS said:

I wonder if Ronaldo will get best player of the year since he didnt do shit in the Champions Final.

Click to expand...

Even you know Ronaldo is not in the mix for player of the year. Ronaldo scored about half as many goals as he scored last year when his team barely won the champions league. He scored some goals this year, but he was nowhere near as dangerous this year as last.

Neo Geo MVS said:

He man 38 gols this season you must be joking if you think Barca can do it without him, I will give credit to Xavi and Iniesta but to say Barca could be tri-champions without messi is bullshit.

Click to expand...

Yes, specially counting those Barça had against "top clubs" as Sporting Lisbon or FC Basel ( on Champions League )...

Like it or not it's way harder to score on the Premiership these days than on the spanish league.

And don't come even with the excuse Barça's is the new champion. Although they were really great in the final, England had 3 clubs on a semi-final and that alone reflects how stronger the premiership is.

"oh yeah, but barça won"

I shall recall that the only real opponent for them by the middle of their spectacular run was Chelsea FC. And as far as I know, they were more than robbed in the eyes of everyone. They would have never reached the final if it wasn't for that Tom Henning referee scandal stealing Chelsea.

Barça's worst period of the season was when Iniesta was injured. They lost around 8~10 points to Real Madrid on a few matches, and those were without Iniesta. They played a lot of matches with Messi in the subs bench and they won - by "goleadas". Xavi and Iniesta ARE the brain, lungs and heart of this team. Messi is just the talent.

And bottom line - Xavi and Iniesta ARE the men.

2point0 said:

Even you know Ronaldo is not in the mix for player of the year. Ronaldo scored about half as many goals as he scored last year when his team barely won the champions league. He scored some goals this year, but he was nowhere near as dangerous this year as last.

Click to expand...

Remember that he came from a surgery in the beginning of the season. He played last Euro 08 ( where he SUCKED BALLS ) with an ankle injury. His effort could have cost him his career. Luckily, Man Utd medical department did great on recovering him.

He was not on par as he did last season, but he started later and missed a lot of matches.

You cannot expect even for a top player to do two seasons at the very same level in a row.

Messi will get the Balon d'Or, and next season he won't be as good as he did this season.

Ibrahimovic will be the man 2010/11.

Neo Geo MVS said:

Fanfare? You are joking right wasabi, Ronaldo got a hell of alot more fanfare than Messi did. At least Messi doesn't do those stupid faces when he missed a shot or yells to himself like Ronaldo does. Messi just plays the game he ain't trying to look like the shit or be pretty boy floyd like Ronaldo, Messi just plays and thats all he cares about.

Click to expand...

You're too biased. Messi makes the most retarded faces ever when he dives, which he does ALL THE TIME. He's always looking for the ref to call a penalty when he goes down. Messi may be a fantastic player, but he's just like Ronaldo, only less attractive in a speedo.

I'm not really thrilled by players like Ronaldo and Messi. But Xavi and Iniesta are really incredible to watch. Their ability to see things on the field and execute plays is a real sight. I would say that if it wasn't for Xavi, Spain would not have performed nearly as well as it did in the Euro cup.

wasabi said:

I would say that if it wasn't for Xavi, Spain would not have performed nearly as well as it did in the Euro cup.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking.

moreover, the same core of the Spain national team is Barça's trio ( Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol ) and the spectacular Marcos Senna.

They weren't champions without a reason. They're in the best 3 national teams of the moment.

I just think Brasil is getting back to their natural spot, but Spain is more than enough team to face them.

There's only one think I cannot accept ( yet ) from the press/barça fans -
they tend to claim this squad as the best team in history.
I can simply not accept that just by the fact that to be claimed as such, a team like that should at least win more Champion Leagues IN A ROW.

Doing the "triplete" alone is a remarkable thing, but to be claim as the greatest team in history is too much fanfare.
AC Milan 93-94 were CL champions with only ONE goal against and they beat Barça's "dream team" back then by 4-0 in Athens.

AC Milan is still in my eyes ( and to everybody not biased ) , the best team of MODERN football.

I'm not sure how well Brazil will do in 2010, but Spain is a really young team, and they have incredible firepower with Xavi, Iniesta, David Silva, and David Villa (forget Torres. He looks like Bruno, and plays like him too.) Senna will probably be retired by then. He's old, right? I mean like Seedorf old.

Thing about this Champions League final was that, like any final, the team that wins is the team that is better in that match - not the team that is better overall. Vidic's mistake against Eto'o was what really set the Manchester tone for the rest of the match, and they never got over it. After Vidic fucked up, they started played really out of character. Had Vidic maintained his marking, the game could have been much different. Don't take this as me saying Man U should have won, but that it's silly to propose Barca as the best team of all time. I would imagine, as I made the assumption by mid season that this was Barca's year, that many people picked Barca to win it all. Great team, great chemistry.

Atro said:

Exactly what I was thinking.

moreover, the same core of the Spain national team is Barça's trio ( Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol ) and the spectacular Marcos Senna.

They weren't champions without a reason. They're in the best 3 national teams of the moment.

I just think Brasil is getting back to their natural spot, but Spain is more than enough team to face them.

There's only one think I cannot accept ( yet ) from the press/barça fans -
they tend to claim this squad as the best team in history.
I can simply not accept that just by the fact that to be claimed as such, a team like that should at least win more Champion Leagues IN A ROW.

Doing the "triplete" alone is a remarkable thing, but to be claim as the greatest team in history is too much fanfare.
AC Milan 93-94 were CL champions with only ONE goal against and they beat Barça's "dream team" back then by 4-0 in Athens.

AC Milan is still in my eyes ( and to everybody not biased ) , the best team of MODERN football.

Click to expand...