After all this time, is Pele still the king of football?

Electric Grave

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Times have changed and just like art skill has evolved in good ways and bad ways, professional football players have evolved as well, but my question is has someone surpassed Pele's record yet?

I mean he was in how many cups again? I think 4 and won 2 gold medals and now they have announced that he will receive a Medal for the 1962 cup which he did not receive 'cause he was injured and thus didn't get the prize like the rest of his mates.

Man! How amazing it must be to be considered a nationa treasure! I mean the man is a class of his own no other player can ever top him. However like I said before times have changed and thus if I am correct someone has beaten his world cup goal score, but I'm not 100% on that.

Pele is the king now and forever, better players might come one day, but for me it will never happen.

...any thoughts?
 

Arthas

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Yes he is, tho people outside of Latin America will probably have a different view. Argentinians would be the exception tho, since we all know they worship Maradona like a god

No matter how you cut it tho, whether he really is the best or not, its undeniable that he really is the most famous soccer player ever. Just like Michael Jordan is to basketball, he came at just the right time in the game to leave his mark for eternity.

Someone may surpass his popularity one day, but for now Pele is here to stay.
 
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evil wasabi

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I never watched Pele. Heard stories about his free kicking ability. But then I find it really hard to believe that he could be even close to as good as Juninho on free kicks (even Pirlo and Beckham are a few meters behind Juninho).

Skill-wise, it's very hard to argue in favor of Pele against Maradona. So what did Pele do? I guess he put football on the map for the US. But was he the best footballer? Come on.
 

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Maradona was amazing during Spain 82' era, his legendary one man show against farnce I believe was nothing short of amazing, but Maradona has never been a play maker, someone has to make the play for the guy, or he simply trenches on his own.

Also Maradona is not a good ambassador of football, he's dirty and cheats whenever he can, also his personla life leaves a lot to be desired from a national hero, but I guess that doesn't mean much when it comes to the game.

Pele was playing his frist world cup when he was 17, he never played for european teams and his skill is greater just on scores alone, but add to that his dribbling ability and the power and curve of his free kick and that alone surpasses maradona any day of the week. I'm not even getting into the plays he came up with. It is truly a shame that most of us didn't get to see him in action during his prime.

I remember fondly Maradona's uncanny ventures and at a point he was my hero, 'cause...well I got to see him doing this extraordinary things, but when my father explained to me what Pele did and we watched some old footage he had in one of them super 8 video projectors then I understood why he was the better athlete.
 

ratson

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maradonna,pele and cruyff where the greatest of all times.The rest will have to fight over 2nd place.Hail to the 3 kings.
 

evil wasabi

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Maradona was amazing during Spain 82' era, his legendary one man show against farnce I believe was nothing short of amazing, but Maradona has never been a play maker, someone has to make the play for the guy, or he simply trenches on his own.

Also Maradona is not a good ambassador of football, he's dirty and cheats whenever he can, also his personla life leaves a lot to be desired from a national hero, but I guess that doesn't mean much when it comes to the game.

Pele was playing his frist world cup when he was 17, he never played for european teams and his skill is greater just on scores alone, but add to that his dribbling ability and the power and curve of his free kick and that alone surpasses maradona any day of the week. I'm not even getting into the plays he came up with. It is truly a shame that most of us didn't get to see him in action during his prime.

I remember fondly Maradona's uncanny ventures and at a point he was my hero, 'cause...well I got to see him doing this extraordinary things, but when my father explained to me what Pele did and we watched some old footage he had in one of them super 8 video projectors then I understood why he was the better athlete.


A playmaker is simply the guy who can make the great passes. If Pele was playing in our generation, he'd be simply ranked up there with Pirlo or Beckham, and no higher. He can score on freekicks, he can pass the ball right onto the chest of a forward trying to beat the offsides, but hey, that's what his position demanded. Maradona played a different position, and it didn't matter who else was on his team, he would score on his own through every defender if he had to.

Two different players, different positions. Honestly, if you wanted to win games and you could pick one player... I would pick Maradona. I don't care if he did coke and destroyed himself. At least he's not a fucknig asshole penning the 125 greatest living footballers. Seriously, fuck Pele. I think his list is pure asshole. At least Maradona knows what he is. Someone needs to remind Pele.
 

Neo Collector

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This is, maybe, the most difficult and controversial question in the world of football this days, i for my self think he did marvelous things in the field and especially outside it (campaigns for helping children and etc), but in terms of show in the field nobody and i mean nobody will ever surpass Garrincha, he was magical, but unfortunately i have to agree with most of the people who says if we could put him in the field today head to head with the best players in the world they would rip him in pieces, the sport in it's essence has changed so much that pele e garrincha can only exist in the realms of the past, they will always be considered the best in the sports, but can't be compared by today's standards.

PS: Maradona will always be a name to respect :)
 

Electric Grave

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A playmaker is simply the guy who can make the great passes. If Pele was playing in our generation, he'd be simply ranked up there with Pirlo or Beckham, and no higher. He can score on freekicks, he can pass the ball right onto the chest of a forward trying to beat the offsides, but hey, that's what his position demanded. Maradona played a different position, and it didn't matter who else was on his team, he would score on his own through every defender if he had to.

Two different players, different positions. Honestly, if you wanted to win games and you could pick one player... I would pick Maradona. I don't care if he did coke and destroyed himself. At least he's not a fucknig asshole penning the 125 greatest living footballers. Seriously, fuck Pele. I think his list is pure asshole. At least Maradona knows what he is. Someone needs to remind Pele.
I agree to a point, making lists while you're on top shows nothing but selfvalidation, however I still think of Pele as the better player. Maradona was great there's no denying that, but I guess the Colombian blood running inside me will never give him the upper hand.

Talking about "hand" remember Mexico '86 final against Germany? That's the day I just lost most of my interest in him, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for victory.
 

evil wasabi

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I agree to a point, making lists while you're on top shows nothing but selfvalidation, however I still think of Pele as the better player. Maradona was great there's no denying that, but I guess the Colombian blood running inside me will never give him the upper hand.

Talking about "hand" remember Mexico '86 final against Germany? That's the day I just lost most of my interest in him, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do for victory.


Who knows how many people have gotten off on a hand job, but I will say this, he probably was neither the first nor the last. British papers will never let it be forgotten though.

I believe Daniele De Rossi, who's on the Italian national team, was ruled to have scored a goal, but he went to the referee and said "no, don't count that goal because it was a hand ball." His team, Roma, still won that game, but the level of honor showed was pretty deep. Maybe without the stigma of Maradona that would not have happened. Everyone knows the hand of god. Sadly they don't remember that Maradona scored the gamewinning after that goal, which was one of the greatest goals of all time.

Personally I could never hold that against Maradona. Only the English should harbor any feelings against him, if any at all. But there is a strong opinion that he has two things no one else has 1) the most infamous goal of all time; 2) the most beautiful goal of all time.

And yeah, I know Messi scored one just like Maradona's but Maradona did it first, did it against England.
 

Neo Geo MVS

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Oh this is bullshit Pele the King of futbol :lolz: Maradona is not only king of futbol but GOD of futbol.

250px-Maradona_y_la_copa_-_Mundial_Juvenil_1979_-_Gente_sept_1979.jpg
MaradonaNapoliUEFACup.jpg
maradona1.jpg

Youth World Cup trophy 1979_________Napoli UEFA Cup 1988–89_______________World Cup 1986

Club Honors - Championships


* Boca Juniors
o Primera División: 1981

* FC Barcelona
o Copa del Rey: 1983
o Copa de la Liga: 1983
o Spanish Super Cup: 1983

* SSC Napoli
o Serie A: 1987, 1990
o Coppa Italia: 1987
o Capocannoniere: 1988
o UEFA Cup: 1989
o Italian Super Cup: 1990
 
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Neo Geo MVS

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Maradona has never been a play maker, someone has to make the play for the guy, or he simply trenches on his own.

What the hell are you babbling about god EG your my friend and now I have to talk smack about you, :lolz: if Maradona wasn't someone who could make plays they how the hell did we win the WC of 1986 in Mexico. He made a pass to Burruchaga who made the German goalie look like a fool when we made the goal by tunneling the ball underneath his legs.

EG - What can I say you say the great #10 is "dirty and cheats whenever he can" my god I never heard more bullshit in my life, Columbians must be sour about Argentina because they can't put Valderamma in the same league as Pele but Maradona sure makes the list doesn't he. Pele ain't the only player to be considered a national treasure and at least Maradona is a national treasure in a country he wasn't even born in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TClYDs3yG74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4GcjDFfRc8&feature=related - Show me a video were Pele is loved outside of his own coutry like Maradona is loved in Italy. Please someone show me because I still have yet to be proven wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtMwqqS8vcI&feature=related - Nice highlights of him playing with the ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah8xBnjtYWw&feature=related - Dribble Skills, lets see pele do anything like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeleVz86uKI

Jorge%20Burruchaga_24082006.jpg


The man who passes the ball to him is called Diego A Maradona :D

Hell Maradona also never needed to be a play maker when he practically did everything by himself.
 
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Neo Geo MVS

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Yes he is, tho people outside of Latin America will probably have a different view. Argentinians would be the exception tho, since we all know they worship Maradona like a god

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think you forgot to add many many Italians also think the same thing and I believe Italy is it's own country. God Arthas don't be pissed off at us Argentinians because of your own countries faults. :D

Just like Michael Jordan is to basketball, he came at just the right time in the game to leave his mark for eternity.

Now I know your out of your mind get this in your head Michael Jordan ain't just the most famous B-Ball player in the world HE IS THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER EVER!!! (PERIOD)
 
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Neo Geo MVS

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Maradona played a different position, and it didn't matter who else was on his team, he would score on his own through every defender if he had to.

Two different players, different positions. Honestly, if you wanted to win games and you could pick one player... I would pick Maradona. I don't care if he did coke and destroyed himself. At least he's not a fucknig asshole penning the 125 greatest living footballers. Seriously, fuck Pele. I think his list is pure asshole. At least Maradona knows what he is. Someone needs to remind Pele.

Who knows how many people have gotten off on a hand job, but I will say this, he probably was neither the first nor the last. British papers will never let it be forgotten though.

I believe Daniele De Rossi, who's on the Italian national team, was ruled to have scored a goal, but he went to the referee and said "no, don't count that goal because it was a hand ball." His team, Roma, still won that game, but the level of honor showed was pretty deep. Maybe without the stigma of Maradona that would not have happened. Everyone knows the hand of god. Sadly they don't remember that Maradona scored the gamewinning after that goal, which was one of the greatest goals of all time.

Personally I could never hold that against Maradona. Only the English should harbor any feelings against him, if any at all. But there is a strong opinion that he has two things no one else has 1) the most infamous goal of all time; 2) the most beautiful goal of all time.

And yeah, I know Messi scored one just like Maradona's but Maradona did it first, did it against England.


OOOOHHHHH SHIT Wasabi, I never thought you would ever say what you stated above. :D
 
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bloodhokuto

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Did any of you guys see the state of the balls (and pitches) that Pele had to contend with.

Try giving any current football megastar one of those old balls that weighed a ton, wallowed around in the air (as they had no balance, and weren't percisely spherical) and see how good they would do.

Pele was also part of a great team of players, whereas for Maradona had less notable teammates, if the whole of maradonas team were like Pele's, would he stand out as much?

It's a rather academic comparison though, I think that all the greats were great and they all had their own style and differing abilities.
 

evil wasabi

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wait wha...

I can look back to Claudio Caniggia and Maradona flanking Batistuta. These three players would be drooled over by any manager looking to have the best front line possible. Burruchaga?

And Maradona was also competing against Lineker, Roberto Baggio, Platini, Rummenigge, Voller, Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard - legendary players. Legendary. Who was Pele playing against? I don't know. Wasn't watching back then.
 

Neo Geo MVS

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wait wha...

I can look back to Claudio Caniggia and Maradona flanking Batistuta. These three players would be drooled over by any manager looking to have the best front line possible. Burruchaga?

And Maradona was also competing against Lineker, Roberto Baggio, Platini, Rummenigge, Voller, Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard - legendary players. Legendary. Who was Pele playing against? I don't know. Wasn't watching back then.

Man I forget Lineker sometimes, man that guy was great. Here is some pictures of his visit to Argentina and meeting up with maradona.

_41571014_lineker_maradona203.jpg
_41494940_stadium_lookingout.jpg
_41494944_watching_game.jpg

_41494934_dinner.jpg
_41494938_pool.jpg
 

Electric Grave

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NGMVS:

You're my buddy and I respect your opinion, but for what is worth note that I was an avid fan of Maradona, in truth he was my role model for most of my childhood I was entoxicated with him as you know that he was a children Idol back in those days...I mean he was in school books! No lie!

Maradona was not only a hero for many of us back in those days, but like the older brother we never had; Audcaious, intuitive and charismatic. For me it was real hard to see him do that in '86 it broke my heart in more ways than one...

I think in a way he realized this himself, 'cause from there it was all downhill for him. I was not sure of where I was standing 'cause his calamity rises the question; "Would I have done the same?" I dunno...sometimes I'm not so sure, and to this day it haunts me.

To add more salt to the already sandy vagina I must recollect that instance where he was accused of using drugs in either the cup or a Americas tournament...I remember vividly watching him walking out the lockers holding hands with a nurse...it was very odd...he was smiling and putting such a benevolent act, what a gentleman in the face of this and his dearest pulic he still gave us quite the show, I was sadden...very sadden.

I guess this are the things that push me away from him. I will never say that he is not en extraordinary athlete, to a point he was a "mentor" in so many ways, but I guess life happens to us all and "fallen from grace" is not a thing we see in the future of our kings.

OK, back to the topic; maybe I over spilled the beans, but clearly Maradona was an individualist to the extreme, this very thing is what validates Pele as the main man in this show. No disrespect, just the truth.

Note: BTW; millions of thanks for the pictures.
 
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Neo Geo MVS

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NGMVS:

You're my buddy and I respect your opinion, but for what is worth note that I was an avid fan of Maradona, in truth he was my role model for most of my childhood I was entoxicated with him as you know that he was a children Idol back in those days...I mean he was in school books! No lie!

Maradona was not only a hero for many of us back in those days, but like the older brother we never had; Audcaious, intuitive and charismatic. For me it was real hard to see him do that in '86 it broke my heart in more ways than one...

I think in a way he realized this himself, 'cause from there it was all downhill for him. I was not sure of where I was standing 'cause his calamity rises the question; "Would I have done the same?" I dunno...sometimes I'm not so sure, and to this day it haunts me.

To add more salt to the already sandy vagina I must recollect that instance where he was accused of using drugs in either the cup or a Americas tournament...I remember vividly watching him walking out the lockers holding hands with a nurse...it was very odd...he was smiling and putting such a benevolent act, what a gentleman in the face of this and his dearest pulic he still gave us quite the show, I was sadden...very sadden.

I guess this are the things that push me away from him. I will never say that he is not en extraordinary athlete, to a point he was a "mentor" in so many ways, but I guess life happens to us all and "fallen from grace" is not a thing we see in the future of our kings.

OK, back to the topic; maybe I over spilled the beans, but clearly Maradona was an individualist to the extreme, this very thing is what validates Pele as the main man in this show. No disrespect, just the truth.

Note: BTW; millions of thanks for the pictures.

I also respect your opinion and everyone else who thinks Pele was better, even though it might not seem like it. Maybe it's because my family is from Argentina and us Argentinians can never accept Pele to be better than our own national hero :D

Maradona did mess up his life and its sad to see everyone just think about the few bad times rather than the many wonderful times. It's also something no one can understand unless your Argentinian.
 
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evil wasabi

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ok, so can we get over the fact Maradona fucked up his own life with drugs and could have been even better?

The game was simply not the same in Pele's grandfather soccer days.


This was an interesting article:
http://shareholdersunite.com/?p=263

Having watched highlight films of that Netherlands team in the '70s World Cups, I really have to say they were an incredible team.

I also see what they say by the best team not always getting to the finals. Like Germany in the Euro 2008? It should have been Spain vs. Netherlands.

But the most important point is that Pele's main qualifier for being #1 is that he was part of 3 WC winning teams. But those teams were so stacked with talent that they would have arguably won without him. And then what?
 

Neo Geo MVS

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How about the 98 Netherlands team, they were so close to the final but lost against brazil in penalties, that team was great. Dennis Bergkamp, Patrick Kluivert played great at that time, hell even Edwin van der Sar was in his prime but wasn't as good as Taffarel.

But the best Netherland team was 74 without a doubt, total futbol wasn't complete in 78 because Cruyff refused to play cuz the junta was committing atrocities in argentina which also brings out a very interesting question would they have won if he played. I say yes
 
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Electric Grave

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I think Bulgaria in either 98 or 94 I cannot recollect right now, but that tea had Stroykoff and he had the best free kicks this world has ever seen, it was miraculous.

Wasa is right in a way, Brazil was a power house; Socrates, Zico, Alemao, Gallo, man the talent was endless in that era of brazil. BTW; that was a pretty interesting read. I think that Pele's vanity is guilty of alienating the people that truly love soccer, which is sad, but I still stand behind my opinion.

Maradona did change football as we know it and so have a few players out there. I'm not gonna rant on and on about Colombia so here me out for a bit; During the friendly games of 90 Colombia showed the world a very intricate and beautifull passing technic, it was rare, different and quite unique and things changed quite a bit after that, you could see it in club tournaments in small dosages, but never in a WC level. This was the days when Valderrama did what Kryuff did "You jump when I tell you to jump!" and it worked well, Valderrama will never get that recognition though, but man he was doing this after the "stand" football era when things moved fast, hell it was a crazy pace back in 90, just look at klinsman I think he was the fastest fucker Germany has ever had, so think about that. I guess my point here is that innovators are sometimes ignored in this field.

I also find worth mentioning the Bebeto & Romario duo, it just rocked the house! The thing is that they were backed by a very mediocre team back then, but man that was phenomenal football. Well for the most part the 94 cup was a bit mundane and all the cammera's were on Baggio the most expensive player in the world back then. I guess is just a way of thiking, but I allways felt that team play is more meritable than individualism, I guess because is harder to make sense of it efficciently, but yes, Maradona's 86 victory was just that...his.

Al little recap here; During my childhoodwe used to play a lot of "Metegoltapa!" which only means whomever makes the goal get's to guard the arch, so it was a frenzy 10 or more one man show acts, it was hard and it was intense, 'cause everyone hunted the ball for their own gain, so I can only imagine how hard it must be to battle a whole team which purpose is to take you down. Now, when we played this game in duos things changed for the better and skill was shown at a better pace. Just fond memories of days of old, I guess I felt like sharing that for the hell of it.

NGMVS: I think I can understand that feeling, Iguita was a national hero along with Valderrama, but Iguita fell from grace even harder that Maradona, but if you ask a COlombian who's the best Goal Keeper that ever lived; without a doubt Iguita will allways come up.

I also find very offensive Maradona's gesture against the America Cup which was hosted for the first time in Colombia, I guess the whole Argentinian attitude of not even participating in the final ceremony 'cause of rivalry against Colombia was atrocious and childish, or at least it seemed that way.

You know Colombia was a fragile (and still is) country back then, and wanted to make an effort to show that there's more than violence in there and Argentina gives it the cold shoulder, even worst; after Colombia won the cup Maradona's view on this was that this victory wasn't valid 'cause he wasn't there!

I guess he broke my heart in more ways than one. During an America's tournament we scored a 5-0 against Argentina and his words were "La biblia del futbol esta escrita por los argentinos" (The Football bible is written by argentinians) I mean gosh! WTF!? Everytime Argentina loses Maradona's reaction is...I wasn't there so...

I think highly of Argentinian football and I hold this rivalry on high regard for being a rival with one of the greats is at least a means to a dream.
 
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rugal2000

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In reply to the thread starters quoting stats about how many tournaments Pele won etc, if we are going by stats, than Lothar Mattaus is right up there, but no one surely would call him the king of football based on that, so why pele.

(FYI Mattahus He was an incredible player and up until the age of 38 he was formidable when he reached the champions league final with Bayern and was voted German player of the year. You have to consider he was a Euro 1980 winner! He also won the world cup in 90, was runner up in 82,86, won euro 96 and was runner up in 92, won 7 Bundesliga titles, a uefa cup and Scudetto title and was world player of the year in 1991)

Anyway I rate Maradona the best b4 Pele.

BY any rate Maradona and Gheorgie Hagi are the 2 best players i seen
 
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