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Thread: A sensational discovery!

  1. #1
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    A sensational discovery!

    As many of you would most likely know, it's fairly known and accepted than the NeoGeo AES came just after the NeoGeo MVS, namely the MVS debuted in the Japanese arcade in 1990 April 26, while the AES debuted in stores on July the 1st.

    This is basically what most of the western (and even Japanese) sources about NeoGeo info says.

    Well, I always found it a bit odd. As a matter of fact, two points at least seemed to suggest me that was quite nonsensical. Namely:

    1) The 1991/7/1 lauch in Japan say 17 titles (all the carton boxes) supposedly released at once. Have you ever seen a gaming system debuting in stores with a 17 titles line up?

    2) Puttin almost a year and a half inbetween the MVS launch and AES launch seemed quite odd per se, as AES datas were into the MVS carts since the very beginning, hence the logical assumption the two systems were developed by SNK under complete parallel schedule.

    Yet I had never find any confirmation of my guesses...

    UNTIL SOME DAYS AGO! :chimp:

    As a matter of fact, I've been in the middle of writing an extensive 'NeoGeo Collector Guide', which is supposed to collect all the bits of NeoGeo knowledge I've been gathering through years into a single document. For this very reason, I'm not only editing all the info already in my possession, but also trying my best effort to double-check and expand pretty much every bit of my knowledge in the field. I've been searching, translating and working on many many Japanese websites and various other sources for all this summer.

    It was just some days ago that I finally came across an intresting bit of info: according to some Japanese sources, the first AES carts originally came out with the very same release dates than the MVS. This amazed me to say the least, so I went down and down, deep and deeper into the inssue just to finally find out, double check and confirmirm wht I am now annoucing to the whole community.

    MVS and AES both came out in Japan in 1990/04/26!

    They both were lauched with four titles: NAM-1975, Majaan Kyouretsuden, Super Baseball Star Pro and Magician Lord.

    AES console price was 58.000yen.

    AES titles price was JUST THE SAME of MVS, spannin from 28.000yen to 32.000yen.

    And so it was for the full year 1990, AES and MVS games had identical release dates and prices, for a total of 11 unique titles at the end of the year! The only exception was Minasan no Okagesama Desu!, which came out in MVS on 7/25/90, but apparently did not have an AES release in 1990.

    If you're wandering how that can be possible, and why the AES prices and release dates eventually came to differ from MVS's, the reason is very simple: for the whole year 1990 the NeoGeo was a RENTAL ONLY game machine, which was supposed to be bought just for commercial (rental) purpose. I'm talking about the original Japanese NeoGeo system boxed in the 'white and green striped' box. The AES games were all carton boxes of course.

    So basically the idea of the AES following the MVS of of the arcade success it's completely wrong! The NeoGeo system debuted in BOTH FORMAT, and the original slogan (original advertise with Ge-manto) was "Sugoi ge-mu wo motte kaerou!", which should trasnlate as "Let's bring the COOL games back at home!". So basically the original idea, concept and philosophy of the NeoGeo was to allow the arcade gamers to bring the arcate 'real deal' at their home, though a super pricy (thus rental) home console identical to an arcade counterpart.

    Well, things changed in 1991.

    What SNK didn't ever planned or expected happened almost since the very beninning: hard-core gamers just starded buying the system in rental shop, rather than renting it. Basically die-hard arcade gamers were avalaibe to buy NeoGeo items at a full 'operators' prices.

    Upon this reality, SNK was almost forced to step forward and go into the consumer market. They just halted the distribution of AES for the 1991, while MVS went on. Then they re-launched the NeoGeo AES as a 'consumer sale' game console. The launch date was that famous 7/1/1991.

    In that date, the price for the console dropped from 58.000yen to 48.800yen. Also, the box of the system meet is final desing, the back one, complete with pictures and all.

    Not only that, on 7/1/1991 SNK also:

    - Released six games never befor published in AES, namerly Minasan no Okagesama Desu!, Sengoku Denshou, ASOII, Raguy, King of the Monsters and Ghost Pilots. These six new release were still all carton boxed, but never existed in 'rental form', and came to be sold at a much lower price of the MVS (price cutted of about 35%).

    - Re-released all the 11 AES games previously published in 1990 as 'rental games'. These games also got cutted in price, so to distinguished the two version SNK introduced the PLASTIC BOX version for the first 11 titles.

    As you can see, out of the 6 carton titles originally sold on 7/1 (so basically not in need of any 'double version', for their rental version never existed), 5 are the infamous 'carton box only' releases. This is not by case as you can see. The reason why Minasan was eventually re-released in plastic box it's still a bit of a mistery, yet I suppose the fact the distributor originally was MONOLITH and not SNK/ADK play a role in this case.

    Well, since then, the MVS and AES market were dived. MVS got earlier released, and AES, now ofically a consumer item, got cheaper prices.

    The first AES game to be released directly in plastic box form, so the first title published by SNK after the 7/1 re-launch lot, was Burning Fight, hitting the stores in 8/9/91 (MVS had debuted in 5/20).

    ***

    So basically this is the TRUE STORY of NeoGeo, MVS and AES.

    I've used extra-care to double and triple check EVERY bit of data, and not trusting 100% any online source I went and check magazines of the times. Thanks to the help of my friend GEMANT I've personally found mag advertize selling AES in 1990 with their 'rental price', and I've also seen the advertise for the 91/7/1 re-launch day, including price cutting and all.

    If anyone want to update the Master List, well, that would probably be for the better, for what's reported on that document is WRONG. The whole idea the we Westeners had of the NeoGeo history was WRONG till today, and that's a fact.

    * * *

    Some bits of infos are still lacking BTW, especially about the western distribution of the NeoGeo.

    It seems that the NeoGeo was officially sold in the US just after the 7/1/91, but I wonder if the original US box (the 'white red striped' one, coded as 'NEO-AEC') was some kind of rental model that leaked before that date.

    As a matter of fact, I've myself an European (PAL) version which had been sold in the original 'white green striped' JAPANESE box, yet is an European model.

    Possibly in 1990 some AES 'rental model' were distributed by SNK in the west thoughout their local sellers/distributors, using who knows which boxes, etc.

    Any comment about this and that always welcome.
    J'y gagne, dit le renard, ŕ cause de la couleur du blé...

    Mais si elle l'aimait, elle n'était libre de rien.


    凄いゲームを、連れて帰ろう。
    "NEO·GEO is the most important of unimportant things." - Fran

  2. #2
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    lol:

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    Why did you think the AES was released in 91? Everyone knows it came out in 1990.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Alec
    Why did you think the AES was released in 91? Everyone knows it came out in 1990.
    Not at all. According to all neoGeo game lits, etc, the release date for the oldest AES titles is 91/7/1. I.E. just go in the Mastel List of this very site and take a look.
    J'y gagne, dit le renard, ŕ cause de la couleur du blé...

    Mais si elle l'aimait, elle n'était libre de rien.


    凄いゲームを、連れて帰ろう。
    "NEO·GEO is the most important of unimportant things." - Fran

  5. #5
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    Interesting. I never knew that's why they had carton boxes - I just thought it was for no reason. Nice work, Shito!

    What's the deal with rental units in the US though? Was it only marketed here as a normal console (in 91)? Or was it marketed as a rental unit for awhile too?

  6. #6
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    Sorry, I already knew AES came out in 1990 in Japan.

    In fact, I've never thought otherwise --or stated otherwise on this website.

    My understanding is that it was intended as a rental-only system (or at least initially to be launched as rental only); and also this was the time when the Neo came in those white boxes.

    Consider the boat, missed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobak
    Sorry, I already knew AES came out in 1990 in Japan.

    In fact, I've never thought otherwise --or stated otherwise on this website.

    My understanding is that it was intended as a rental-only system (or at least initially to be launched as rental only); and also this was the time when the Neo came in those white boxes.

    Consider the boat, missed.
    Ditto. The system went on sale to the "public" in '91.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaThunder View Post
    I was referring to HIS throat, not my own.

    I'd fuck Neo Ash's throat... lovingly.

  8. #8
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    I recall it to be 1990.

  9. #9
    King of Typists
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobak
    Sorry, I already knew AES came out in 1990 in Japan.

    In fact, I've never thought otherwise --or stated otherwise on this website.

    My understanding is that it was intended as a rental-only system (or at least initially to be launched as rental only); and also this was the time when the Neo came in those white boxes.

    Consider the boat, missed.
    Yet the Master List is completely wrong. The original release dates of the first 11 titles is NOT 91/7/1 as is stated there. That's the release date for the plastic box re-release of those 11 titles.

    Neverless, is commonly known that the AES came after the MVS, with the MVS being the 'originally released' system. This is wrong, as I proved the both systems/formats debuted the very same day in Japan.

    Also, the idea of the AES market having stared with 'cartridges with lower price than MVS and delayed released dates' is also wrong, for prices and release dates were just the same for both AES and MVS cart during the whole year 1990.
    J'y gagne, dit le renard, ŕ cause de la couleur du blé...

    Mais si elle l'aimait, elle n'était libre de rien.


    凄いゲームを、連れて帰ろう。
    "NEO·GEO is the most important of unimportant things." - Fran

  10. #10
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    So it looks like Geddon_jt made a mistake with the original handful of Japanese releases, or he's using some reasoning that I don't know off the top of my head.

    The year of release remains correct on the Master List, so something clearly is up there.

    Let him know and we can clear it up.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobak
    Sorry, I already knew AES came out in 1990 in Japan.

    In fact, I've never thought otherwise --or stated otherwise on this website.

    My understanding is that it was intended as a rental-only system (or at least initially to be launched as rental only); and also this was the time when the Neo came in those white boxes.

    Consider the boat, missed.
    This is exactly what I thought. The whole rental system in 1990 ---> available to buy in 1991 was already known.

    Carton releases for the changeover from rental to home console is interesting I guess.

    Now as for MVS - I thought that debuted in 1989? as per wikipedia and plenty of other sites. Are you saying that it came out in 1990? Was the 1989 just pre-release promo shows etc?
    I'm selling some MVS carts,art sets & kits, some Rare AES conversions and games, SNK Mooks, SNK AES Hardware, and about 40 Neo CDs

    Check the selling forums for my name!

    PRICES ADDED TO (pretty much) EVERYTHING!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitan
    Now as for MVS - I thought that debuted in 1989? as per wikipedia and plenty of other sites. Are you saying that it came out in 1990? Was the 1989 just pre-release promo shows etc?
    That's another common mistake. NeoGeo MVS, just as well as the AES, debuted in Japan on 04/26/90. That's also the release date for the first four titles, both AES and MVS format (each priced 28.000yen in both formats).
    Last edited by Shito; 08-28-2006 at 11:02 AM.
    J'y gagne, dit le renard, ŕ cause de la couleur du blé...

    Mais si elle l'aimait, elle n'était libre de rien.


    凄いゲームを、連れて帰ろう。
    "NEO·GEO is the most important of unimportant things." - Fran

  13. #13
    Kasumi Todoh's Training Partner
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    Well if you have enough good stuff, I expect to read a good magazine or FAQ sometime soon.

    If you could make a mag out of it, with pics, articles etc with all the info I would definitely buy a copy!
    I'm selling some MVS carts,art sets & kits, some Rare AES conversions and games, SNK Mooks, SNK AES Hardware, and about 40 Neo CDs

    Check the selling forums for my name!

    PRICES ADDED TO (pretty much) EVERYTHING!

  14. #14

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    It was all in 1990. If the MVS was out in 89, Nam (NGH# 001) would say 1989 on the title screen.


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    All I know is that I got the Neo Geo system a week or two after it debuted in stores in the US. My brother and I went to EB and the system was there, along with Magician Lord, Baseball Stars, Nam and possibly a few others. I didn't think Blue's Journey or Alpha Mission II came out for awhile after that. I wish I would have taken the camcorder to EB when we got the system.

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    The Neo Geo and a few games hit stores shelves in late 1990 in the US. Here's a post from usenet about it.

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...2b35e1aa4ab3c7

  17. #17
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    a system of the 80's

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    Shito, do you have a release date for your "NeoGeo Collector Guide"? It would also be really kool if you could add a sections that lists all the hardware, with pics, release dates etc. This would tie in with what I have been working on. I can send you the list I have together with the pics I have collected if you want?

  19. #19
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    madone, you've got a PM.
    J'y gagne, dit le renard, ŕ cause de la couleur du blé...

    Mais si elle l'aimait, elle n'était libre de rien.


    凄いゲームを、連れて帰ろう。
    "NEO·GEO is the most important of unimportant things." - Fran

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulthug View Post
    lol


    What a long, strange trip it's been. And still we roll down this baffling road, missing those who have left us. Daisuke Jigen, Sifl, SNK4EVER, Nightmare_Tony, Boog, Zero Satori. Gone but not forgotten.

  21. #21
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    Good for you! Congrats on discovering that for yourself.


    But I think most people knew it came out in 90'.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lspear76 View Post
    . I wish I would have taken the camcorder to EB when we got the system.
    unfortunate, that you do not have.
    Would love to see something like that.
    Last edited by fredderfarmer; 01-20-2010 at 03:53 PM.

  23. #23
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    QUOTE=Bobak;2022742]Sorry, I already knew AES came out in 1990 in Japan.

    In fact, I've never thought otherwise --or stated otherwise on this website.

    My understanding is that it was intended as a rental-only system (or at least initially to be launched as rental only); and also this was the time when the Neo came in those white boxes.

    Consider the boat, missed.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree, the master list list states that it was released July 1, 1991.
    Now your arguement is purley semantics. The system was for sale in the US at the end of 1990. Whether it was marketed as a rental system or for home use is irrelevant. It didnt certainly didnt alter sales in my opinion.

    Now I see alot of discussion on this board about packing and included games.
    Lets clarify some things, I would say roughly the Neo Geo popularly retailed from late 90 to mid 93. You could get them new at software store like Babbages, Software Ect and Comp USA. Also some small movie rental companys and video game stores carried them.
    What stores commonly carried were Japanese models. They were in a white box with black writing and a orange logo in the middle with some green and Kanji underneath it. Sometimes it was in English. Somehow these systems must've been modified in the bios because they played the games in English. The contents of the box were a system, a controller, the video cables (one rf and one rca) and the power supply. The game and controller and memory card were packaged seperatly. I dont remember ever seeing a "Gold System" that included everything in a giant ten foot by 4 four foot box. They may exist but most retailers choose not to carry them.
    Instead really the "Gold System" was really a discount you got for buying everything all at once. The system, game, extra controller and a memory card. Now it may have been advertised to come with XX game but really when you got to the store you could pick out any launch title or even newer games if they were the same price or you could pay the difference. Im sure this is because they really wanted a sale. Also "Software Stores" werent really in the used game buying selling market like they are today. In fact I think it was against zoning laws. It was though a common practice for retailers to sell these systems and games used. They wouldn't call them used, they would just saying that thev'ye been refurbished or are missing some of its packaging. I'd assume these came from people who bought the systems and got tired of them after a few months and didn't want to buy $200 games or rental store that gave up on them. I never really remember seeing the full color system boxes until near the end of the systems retail life.

    The Neo was usually diplayed back in the corner along the ceiling right before the door to the managers office/ inventory room. It had a handfull of titles (if that) underneath it. A controller and memory card may have also been with it.
    Im sure the systems mostly black and white box didnt draw much attention.

    In around mid 93 the few major software companies that did carry the Neo stopped. Id be willing that they did becasue they were tired of poor sales and taken up retail space, not from a lack of support from SNK. It seems like Comp Usa bought up the surplus inventory and blew it out. For a couple months they had most every title for $50 versus the $200+ msrp untill suplies were exhausted.
    Its very sad because after this is when a majority the Neo's good games came out.

  24. #24
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    Are these first "rental" NGH systems in their appropriate boxes especially expensive or sought after?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TikTekTak View Post
    Are these first "rental" NGH systems in their appropriate boxes especially expensive or sought after?
    No, theres no difference.

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