Fighter123
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Makismo said:
Go to hell!
MD rules bitch!
'Last Hope' Central thread
- Thread starter NG:DEV.TEAM
- Start date
Go to hell!
MD rules bitch!
Lee Gray
SSVS Special Plz..., Buying & Selling that, Never
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- Sep 21, 2001
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Sure the game may be too expensive for alot of ppl but then the neo geo has always been expensive, i wouldnt pay it and i'm sure others wouldnt but some will, but nonetheless, with some of the bashing i have been reading, i am sure some of you are not real neo fans, any support in my opinion is great news and i wish the guys success in their venture
Lee Gray
SSVS Special Plz..., Buying & Selling that, Never
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- Sep 21, 2001
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- 7,506
well i have to admit it it as a fan of platform games, u cant beat the megadrive for games like quackshot,sonic, castle and world of illusion and james pond 2,Fighter17 said:Megadrive is my favorite system of all time, repect it!
its ashame it had to end as even today if technology had not evolved and games were still being made for the megadrive i would be playing them
Makismo
Ghost of Captain Kidd
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- 1,670
Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:
Not trying to brag here but I spent $750 for a Blazing Star and I think that it is worth every penny. However, I think that someone must be insane to spend over $10,000 on a Kizuna Encounter when all you are really paying for is the printed paper material. You can get a very nice Japanese version of the same game for around $600. Now that is just plain nuts IMHO. The same can be said for the Ultimate 11. I also don't think that Metal Slug is worth $3,000 in English format but I wouldn't have a problem dropping around $1,200 max for it (I almost got it for that price too!)
Yes, you can buy a lot of stuff for $700 but nice things cost money and if you have a passion for Neo Geo home cartridges - then you have to pay out your ass for the nice ones. What can I say? The Neo Geo always was and is an elite game system that was made for a small market who has gone down to almost nothing over the years. That is all for now.
Fighter123
Banned
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Lee Gray said:well i have to admit it it as a fan of platform games, u cant beat the megadrive for games like quackshot,sonic, castle and world of illusion and james pond 2,
its ashame it had to end as even today if technology had not evolved and games were still being made for the megadrive i would be playing them
Oh yeah don't forget the shoot 'em ups like Thunder Force III, IV, M.U.S.H.A, and all those Toaplan arcade ports.
NG:DEV.TEAM
Marked Wolf
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Posts
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In short:
Price is down to 550USD.
A Last Hope video is now available on our homepage.
Here is a snipset from our new FAQ:
F.A.Q last changed 2005-12-10
* Which platform do you release this game?
Currently NEO GEO AES/NGH only.
* How about the pricing?
The final price is not fixed yet.
Pricing depends heavily on production, number of copies and future ports.
We are currently thinking about a mixed strategy which could result in a good price cutting.
E.g. down to 550USD considering a shockbox release.
* How many copies will be created?
Limited release 30-40. Not fixed yet.
* Is a MVS/NGCD/DC release planned?
Yes MVS,NGCD and DC versions are technicaly no problem and will be considered in future.
The MVS version would be for home use only. Coin support would be not included/commercial use prohibited.
* Paperworks
- Offset printed shock box size insert/classic english snap case insert.
- Offset printed CD-booklet manual with baggy.
- Digital printed and factory cutted sticker
* Casing
- Currently shockbox/maybe snap case (depends on neostore.com)
* Does this game use the memorycard?
Yes. Game progress, options and score is saved.
Price is down to 550USD.
A Last Hope video is now available on our homepage.
Here is a snipset from our new FAQ:
F.A.Q last changed 2005-12-10
* Which platform do you release this game?
Currently NEO GEO AES/NGH only.
* How about the pricing?
The final price is not fixed yet.
Pricing depends heavily on production, number of copies and future ports.
We are currently thinking about a mixed strategy which could result in a good price cutting.
E.g. down to 550USD considering a shockbox release.
* How many copies will be created?
Limited release 30-40. Not fixed yet.
* Is a MVS/NGCD/DC release planned?
Yes MVS,NGCD and DC versions are technicaly no problem and will be considered in future.
The MVS version would be for home use only. Coin support would be not included/commercial use prohibited.
* Paperworks
- Offset printed shock box size insert/classic english snap case insert.
- Offset printed CD-booklet manual with baggy.
- Digital printed and factory cutted sticker
* Casing
- Currently shockbox/maybe snap case (depends on neostore.com)
* Does this game use the memorycard?
Yes. Game progress, options and score is saved.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2002
- Posts
- 13,556
redrum666 said:i get an error 404 wane i try to download the video
yar...
NG:DEV.TEAM
Marked Wolf
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- Dec 6, 2005
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- 221
You just have to refresh your browser (F5 oder CTRL-R).
Vektorlogic Ltd
, ,
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- Dec 29, 2000
- Posts
- 156
Well, firstly I have to say good work guys - it certainly looks impressive and I am certainly looking forward to see more of it in the coming weeks. It looks like there has been a lot of time put into this and god knows how many man-hours of work - and you should get something back for your hard labour.
If you put it out on unprotected AES, MVS or whatever - kiss any returns goodbye, because there are plenty out there who will copy the images, re-build and re-distribute, so FWIW I would stronly advise not to go down this route without some form of protection. I would suggest going for MVS and go the coin-op route initially; there are buyers who will pay for it if it takes money - despite protestations to the contrary, the MVS is not dead in all arcades we have many MVS systems still earning reasonable money out on location. The flip side - if you protect it, the manufacturing cost increases - the more complex the protection, the greater the cost of custom devices on the boards - then there is board design, production and VHDL coding for the sec parts - our MVS board has 2 seperate devices for security and they seem to work quite well. If you really want to get into them, you can slice the top off each device with a laser and then read the arrays with an electron microscope - gets a bit expensive, so you are just looking at deterring potential hackers really - nothing is copy-proof, but you can make good ground, my aim with SBP was to protect it for 3-4 months to afford some price security for the new game when it first came out.
As far as the legal standpoint is concerned -I haven't had any problems with SNKP or anyone else for that matter. I offered the security system to SNK many years ago in Osaka when we agreed to do the PC versions of 8 MVS games that were released in Korea and they wouldn't even consider it, because it wasn't in-house. The MVS projects that I had were delayed significantly as I knew I had to go down the 100% original route, and yes plastic design, tooling, PCBs, surface mount & wave flow equipment, & programming equipment for the devices all adds up, and I have no shame in admitting that it almost finished me off financially, but it was a huge learning experience along the way and something that I had always wanted to do. You can release on MVS for coin op without any fear of retribution if you are 100% original - same goes for AES and I would be happy to assist if I can. Essentially, if you use any proprietary SNK code or products, you open yourself up to legal action - simple as that. If you don't use their stuff, you can do it - the basis for protection on your part is that the databus pinout is not copyrighted by SNK(P) etc, (Motorola own the 68k and I think it was Zilog with the Z80 etc etc) and as legal precedence has shown, several big boys have tried to stop 3rd party developers from releasing self produced carts for their systems, only to lose in court and pay costs etc. Oh and there are ways to avoid using any of their bits and pieces, with a little lateral thinking and some clever engineering solution:-)
Let's address the pricing bitching for a moment - yep $700 is going to be too high for pretty much everyone, but actual manufacturing costs are not cheap either for low production runs - and of course the medical bills when you realize how much a production run requires in terms of up-front cost for devices and parts. One year down the line and I sell SBP for £125 to use up the last of the parts run for that game. If you can live at $300-350 per unit then you will sell to the coin op market if the game is good enough although I think $300 will be the right price - take off that, the cost of advertising, 3rd party handling/distribution costs etc etc and it really is hard to make much at this - so welcome to your new labour of love guys - but that's not to say that if the game is good enough, you can still do quite nicely out of this, and if it is v good then you can make some good money.
AES - yes we can modify our MVS system to run on the AES with new PCBs and a new case - that's pretty straightforward to do (need to chat with Jeff K again on that one if you want to go down that route). The up-front cost to do that is around $30-40k for design, tooling, shipping etc etc, including an on-board security system on the 68k/z80 board. Time-wise, it will take about 4 months to get that work done, tested, laser cut a plastic proto and then get the tooling made up. But really that shouldn't be a problem for anyone, because it would make sense to release AES about 6-12 months after MVS anyway - so as to maximise your earning potential from your work.
That's my 10c for now - well done guys and good luck in completing the project - your next hurdle will be in converting from emulator to MVS platform or AES - for anyone else on the same sort of projects
a) the line sprite controller in the emus will handle and unlimited number of sprites and run them quite nicely - on the real system it will start to blank parts of the screen - I mention this as your game looks quite sprite intensive. Your code logic will still function correctly, but you usually start to lose one half of the screen (bottom half if my memory serves me correctly) so be prepared to work on that if you are pushing the limits of the VLSPC
b) get your sound guys to normalize the audio tracks and SFX - remember is ADPCM too - the longer the sample, the greater the chance of shifting of the zero level occurring - if the delta's aren't accurate in the conversion then that will cause problems - you may also get vertical looping during conversion back to waveform levels. Once again the emu's don't reflect this, they play perfectly and only when you get to run it on the Yamaha does the problem actually show up - got some software for that if you need it.
Hope that helps - and guys, once again nice work - don't take the neg vibes here too much to heart
Flame away!
Jeff F
If you put it out on unprotected AES, MVS or whatever - kiss any returns goodbye, because there are plenty out there who will copy the images, re-build and re-distribute, so FWIW I would stronly advise not to go down this route without some form of protection. I would suggest going for MVS and go the coin-op route initially; there are buyers who will pay for it if it takes money - despite protestations to the contrary, the MVS is not dead in all arcades we have many MVS systems still earning reasonable money out on location. The flip side - if you protect it, the manufacturing cost increases - the more complex the protection, the greater the cost of custom devices on the boards - then there is board design, production and VHDL coding for the sec parts - our MVS board has 2 seperate devices for security and they seem to work quite well. If you really want to get into them, you can slice the top off each device with a laser and then read the arrays with an electron microscope - gets a bit expensive, so you are just looking at deterring potential hackers really - nothing is copy-proof, but you can make good ground, my aim with SBP was to protect it for 3-4 months to afford some price security for the new game when it first came out.
As far as the legal standpoint is concerned -I haven't had any problems with SNKP or anyone else for that matter. I offered the security system to SNK many years ago in Osaka when we agreed to do the PC versions of 8 MVS games that were released in Korea and they wouldn't even consider it, because it wasn't in-house. The MVS projects that I had were delayed significantly as I knew I had to go down the 100% original route, and yes plastic design, tooling, PCBs, surface mount & wave flow equipment, & programming equipment for the devices all adds up, and I have no shame in admitting that it almost finished me off financially, but it was a huge learning experience along the way and something that I had always wanted to do. You can release on MVS for coin op without any fear of retribution if you are 100% original - same goes for AES and I would be happy to assist if I can. Essentially, if you use any proprietary SNK code or products, you open yourself up to legal action - simple as that. If you don't use their stuff, you can do it - the basis for protection on your part is that the databus pinout is not copyrighted by SNK(P) etc, (Motorola own the 68k and I think it was Zilog with the Z80 etc etc) and as legal precedence has shown, several big boys have tried to stop 3rd party developers from releasing self produced carts for their systems, only to lose in court and pay costs etc. Oh and there are ways to avoid using any of their bits and pieces, with a little lateral thinking and some clever engineering solution:-)
Let's address the pricing bitching for a moment - yep $700 is going to be too high for pretty much everyone, but actual manufacturing costs are not cheap either for low production runs - and of course the medical bills when you realize how much a production run requires in terms of up-front cost for devices and parts. One year down the line and I sell SBP for £125 to use up the last of the parts run for that game. If you can live at $300-350 per unit then you will sell to the coin op market if the game is good enough although I think $300 will be the right price - take off that, the cost of advertising, 3rd party handling/distribution costs etc etc and it really is hard to make much at this - so welcome to your new labour of love guys - but that's not to say that if the game is good enough, you can still do quite nicely out of this, and if it is v good then you can make some good money.
AES - yes we can modify our MVS system to run on the AES with new PCBs and a new case - that's pretty straightforward to do (need to chat with Jeff K again on that one if you want to go down that route). The up-front cost to do that is around $30-40k for design, tooling, shipping etc etc, including an on-board security system on the 68k/z80 board. Time-wise, it will take about 4 months to get that work done, tested, laser cut a plastic proto and then get the tooling made up. But really that shouldn't be a problem for anyone, because it would make sense to release AES about 6-12 months after MVS anyway - so as to maximise your earning potential from your work.
That's my 10c for now - well done guys and good luck in completing the project - your next hurdle will be in converting from emulator to MVS platform or AES - for anyone else on the same sort of projects
a) the line sprite controller in the emus will handle and unlimited number of sprites and run them quite nicely - on the real system it will start to blank parts of the screen - I mention this as your game looks quite sprite intensive. Your code logic will still function correctly, but you usually start to lose one half of the screen (bottom half if my memory serves me correctly) so be prepared to work on that if you are pushing the limits of the VLSPC
b) get your sound guys to normalize the audio tracks and SFX - remember is ADPCM too - the longer the sample, the greater the chance of shifting of the zero level occurring - if the delta's aren't accurate in the conversion then that will cause problems - you may also get vertical looping during conversion back to waveform levels. Once again the emu's don't reflect this, they play perfectly and only when you get to run it on the Yamaha does the problem actually show up - got some software for that if you need it.
Hope that helps - and guys, once again nice work - don't take the neg vibes here too much to heart
Flame away!
Jeff F
Just saw the video clip and I gotta say I like what I saw. The game reminds me a lot of R-Type which is a good thing. I also really like the techno music in the clip, hope the game music is similar. Im very glad that you guys are reassesing your marketing strategy to port it over to other platforms and trying to lower the price too.
rotphungte said:Yeah its trueGot me there numbnuts...
Eerr... because you are...
Man... you sure are one angry virgin...
Its true... I jack off to em all the time...
Also, I don't give a rat's ass about what you and your girlfriend do....Angry virgin x2
DAMN! You he dumbest POS on this site... I wonder how you managed to keep all your brain cells in one place...
NGFreak REWLS!
PS. Hey James... wanna know what I think? I think you be sexy when you're angry...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wow. This is the funniest and most well done post I have ever read on NG.com. The naked picture in the chair put it over the top. LOL.
Fighter123
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2005
- Posts
- 2,294
After seeing the video, the graphics are wonderful. The only problem with me is Last Hope is just too much like R-Type (it's a personal problem for me). For some reason, the game reminds me of Pulstar (which I hate very much because it's just a R-Type clone). One thing of the video that got my eyes popping was the Force control. It seems like you can move the Force anywhere around your ship, which can be very useful. Anyway, good product so far. Oh yeah, try to do a Dreamcast port. 
cafu1982
Krauser's Henchman
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Posts
- 948
Snuh said:
Just about to say that. Looked at the vid too, looks promising, I like the backgrounds & music, you guys put a lot of work into this.
Hopefully, some of the more constructive comments in this thread can help you lower the price even more & get some SNK cases too.
Great work NG: DEV.TEAM
Fighter17 said:After seeing the video, the graphics are wonderful. The only problem with me is Last Hope is just too much like R-Type (it's a personal problem for me). For some reason, the game reminds me of Pulstar (which I hate very much because it's just a R-Type clone). One thing of the video that got my eyes popping was the Force control. It seems like you can move the Force anywhere around your ship, which can be very useful. Anyway, good product so far. Oh yeah, try to do a Dreamcast port.
WTF?
Looks very nice so far, but the price is still out of range (for me, at least). Considering that one can get Garou AES for less then that, this seems all the more steep (even when you keep the development costs in mind). Not trying to discourage.
If you end up doing an NGCD version, though, let me know!
If you end up doing an NGCD version, though, let me know!