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Thread: ChrisR vs. Bobak - A real debate

  1. #101
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    Well, I guess this about caps the thread off. Since Bobak has decided to end debating, which I can respect, we can just say people will decide on their own.

    I will update the thread when the updated press release comes out. In the mean time, the usual suspects can spam it up.

    It was interesting anyway.

    Also, on the subject of being a crook and a liar, I have yet to see anyone step up and say what I owe them, or how I screwed them.

    Maybe we can go back to the cardboard box incident with smallwood. I still have one if he wants to trade back.

    Thanks,

    ChrisR

  2. #102
    MotoGP and Formula 1 Freak DangerousK's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chrisr
    .

    Also, on the subject of being a crook and a liar, I have yet to see anyone step up and say what I owe them, or how I screwed them.



    ChrisR
    How about explaining why your little buddy Dion puiled the shit he did with Mikhail (Kiselgof)?

  3. #103
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    It is amazing to see someone post hundreds upon hundreds of words and never say anything.
    "Put your weight on it."

  4. #104
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    Originally posted by chrisr
    Also, on the subject of being a crook and a liar, I have yet to see anyone step up and say what I owe them, or how I screwed them.
    To be honest, I don't know of a fun story that is specific to Chris off the top of my head as I was smart enough not to ever attempt a purchase from either of you. However, there are a couple stories that spring to mind in reference to Dion and you AND Dion are what make up NGF and with that, you are at the least guilty by association.

    Let's go back to when Dion told everyone on the DHP that Metal Slug X came with an orange genre insert, direct from SNK, way back when. LIE. There's more to that story too, but I don't feel like retyping the whole thing.

    Or how about when Dion took a decent sized order from Tonk (some $300-500 or so I believe, but amount is irrelevant) and instead of sending Tonk what he ordered, because Dion lied and said he had stuff in stock to get his hands on Tonk's money when he did not indeed have said stock, sent Tonk a totally random assortment of games that had nothing to do with his purchase. Of course, there is a lot more to that story too, but again, I don't feel the need to type the whole thing. In any case, it's shady, dishonest, bullshit.

    I don't care if these examples are of you or not. The fact is, NGF is both of you and his transactions are your transactions. These two examples popped into my head after thinking, literally, about 10 seconds. And I say again, there are more.

    To be honest, I don't really care what the final outcome of any of this court business is. The bottom line is, the both of you could have been really good to this hobby but instead you invested so much of your ego into making some stupid fucking games into a ridiculous symbol of affluence and psuedo cool that your efforts simply became a parody of themselves. You two are like the guy that shows up at the club with a gold medallion thinking that all the attention he is getting is because he is so hip and good looking, when in reality it's because he is the butt of a multitude of jokes. BTW, this dress code evidently fits Dion to a "T," from what I have seen of him in his own photos, but who cares. That's petty anyway.

    Whether you had rights to everything or nothing, then, now or any other time is completely beside the point.

    Your organization was shady.

    You treated you customers with contempt.

    Your organization lied to its customers, about its stock, the state of things, etc.

    You defaced and destroyed original pieces of SNK's legacy with your so called "corrections."

    You hurt this hobby and made it less than it otherwise would have been.


    Perhaps the last sin is the greatest. The fact that this thread even exists in some small way diminishes the greatness that the Neo represents to we die hard fans. Perhaps over the years, time will erode the oily smear of NGF's touch on this great platform.

    I don't care who releases what information when. None of what I have typed changes, regardless because it has nothing to do with IP rights and everything to do with behavior and ethics.

    So, with that in mind, I give you the Shinji Salute and welcome you to be on your way.

  5. #105
    TЗh ЯussiaИs Дre CФming,
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    Originally posted by DangerousK
    How about explaining why your little buddy Dion puiled the shit he did with Mikhail (Kiselgof)?
    It's a shame that Dion won't show his face here. He only has enough lip to trash talk on the DHP. He did manage to pull this "gem" out of his ass:

    "How could I have stolen from you if I was the person who PAID you? You tried to rob me but luckily Paypal gives protection against scammers like you."
    http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2003/Nov/0074.html

    Followed by:

    "Also, you owe me money for the damage to my car. So, wait till you see how that gets handled."
    http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2003/Nov/0080.html

    Let's see here, so what exactly is it called when you PAY someone for a product they sent you three months in advance, then decide to CHARGE BACK the payment just because you don't like it when the seller calls you on some of your lies and demands reparations. That sounds like THEFT. But no, apparently in Dion's little world I am the scammer because I sent him a "fake" Ganryu conversion he resold to Makismo or some other dumbass with his corrected insert for twice the money.

    The moron still has the gall to mention his "car". That's a funny story as well. Rewind back to the day of the 2002 CGE when I wasted $60 on the entrance fee and cab fares, as well as 3 hours of my precious time that could have been spent with my girlfriend, attending a crappy show where a bait-and-switch was pulled on the promised protos for sale. Let's think back to when out of sheer generosity and kindness, as anyone who knows me will attest to, I volunteered to help Dion set up the booth by going back to his house to see the supposed "protos" and other "treasures". Let's think back to when Dion, being the steroid-driven brain-cell lacking dummy that he is, forgets to remove the towing hatch from his Jeep, then asks me to put something in the back of the car, and when I open the back door and ding it on the unrevomed hatch expects to blame me because I didn't notice the hatch? What kind of idiotic argument is that? Mother fucker I should charge you for the time I spent helping you out since my time is not free. I should charge you for the time I wasted attending the show where the promised advertised materials were not for sale.

    Not so sincerely,

    Mikhail

  6. #106
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    Originally posted by RyoGeo
    To be honest, I don't know of a fun story that is specific to Chris off the top of my head as I was smart enough not to ever attempt a purchase from either of you. However, there are a couple stories that spring to mind in reference to Dion and you AND Dion are what make up NGF and with that, you are at the least guilty by association.

    Let's go back to when Dion told everyone on the DHP that Metal Slug X came with an orange genre insert, direct from SNK, way back when. LIE. There's more to that story too, but I don't feel like retyping the whole thing.

    Or how about when Dion took a decent sized order from Tonk (some $300-500 or so I believe, but amount is irrelevant) and instead of sending Tonk what he ordered, because Dion lied and said he had stuff in stock to get his hands on Tonk's money when he did not indeed have said stock, sent Tonk a totally random assortment of games that had nothing to do with his purchase. Of course, there is a lot more to that story too, but again, I don't feel the need to type the whole thing. In any case, it's shady, dishonest, bullshit.

    I don't care if these examples are of you or not. The fact is, NGF is both of you and his transactions are your transactions. These two examples popped into my head after thinking, literally, about 10 seconds. And I say again, there are more.

    To be honest, I don't really care what the final outcome of any of this court business is. The bottom line is, the both of you could have been really good to this hobby but instead you invested so much of your ego into making some stupid fucking games into a ridiculous symbol of affluence and psuedo cool that your efforts simply became a parody of themselves. You two are like the guy that shows up at the club with a gold medallion thinking that all the attention he is getting is because he is so hip and good looking, when in reality it's because he is the butt of a multitude of jokes. BTW, this dress code evidently fits Dion to a "T," from what I have seen of him in his own photos, but who cares. That's petty anyway.

    Whether you had rights to everything or nothing, then, now or any other time is completely beside the point.

    Your organization was shady.

    You treated you customers with contempt.

    Your organization lied to its customers, about its stock, the state of things, etc.

    You defaced and destroyed original pieces of SNK's legacy with your so called "corrections."

    You hurt this hobby and made it less than it otherwise would have been.


    Perhaps the last sin is the greatest. The fact that this thread even exists in some small way diminishes the greatness that the Neo represents to we die hard fans. Perhaps over the years, time will erode the oily smear of NGF's touch on this great platform.

    I don't care who releases what information when. None of what I have typed changes, regardless because it has nothing to do with IP rights and everything to do with behavior and ethics.

    So, with that in mind, I give you the Shinji Salute and welcome you to be on your way.

    That is THE greatest post I have ever read on this board since it's inception some 3 years + ago.

    Man. That whole page should be made a sticky.

    Great job Ryo. That is why you are a mod!


  7. #107
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    Originally posted by Makismo
    Yeah, no need to make yourself look like a fool any longer Bobak. All the people of the NGF clan are on the side on Chris Ray. I for one stand behind Chris Ray and I will never stand behind you in anything. You mess up my petition and make it sound like I am doing it for show but I am doing it for everyone. I can't expect someone like you to understand since the only person that you ever think about is yourself. You don't care about anyone here. You go and play with your law friends. None of them have good muscle tone anyway. In a fist fight Chris Ray could beat you hands down and that's a fact. So play god all you like here on this board but you are a big zero in my book.
    Why in the fuck would you come back and within a week be talking shit to a mod? You're supposed to be laying low, aren't you? You've really not changed at all. The only content I see to your post is selfish drivel. You disagree with Bobak's position because he doesn't like your petition or something. How childish.

  8. #108
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    Originally posted by chrisr

    Also, on the subject of being a crook and a liar, I have yet to see anyone step up and say what I owe them, or how I screwed them.



    ChrisR
    I've stated many times that NGF would'nt have worked if it was not for your participation. You built up a good reputation once upon a time ago and used that reputation to dupe thousands by lending that credibility to NGF.
    Dion is a babbling moron who would have never been able to pull the NGF scharade off alone.He was written off as a loser back in '96.
    Chris it is YOU who is/was responsible for the NGF treachery.
    I don't hold that Moron responsible because Moron is what moron does. Dion is a FOOL by nature but it was YOU Chris that were fully aware of everything that was going on.
    Nobody should get it FCKED UP that it was you Chris who is responsible for NGF treachery!!
    Don't come here and try to push everything on that moron who I honestly believe knows no better...but you Chris,YOU KNEW BETTER! SHAME ON YOU!
    -BB
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    is stocking the SHOCKbox right now!! They also have a huge library of SHOCKbox inserts for DL and or printing.
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  9. #109
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    Damn Chris, what's taking SNK-P so long to update that list of games you have rights to?

    *GASPS!*

    Could it be that THIS was the final list?

    We are all still waiting.

  10. #110
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    Originally posted by chrisr
    Also, on the subject of being a crook and a liar, I have yet to see anyone step up and say what I owe them, or how I screwed them.

    Maybe we can go back to the cardboard box incident with smallwood. I still have one if he wants to trade back.

    Thanks,

    ChrisR
    No. You would have taken it back and kept both carts to yourself after you sent me your 'corrected' insert.

    I had faith that I could have trusted you over pee-on ages ago and you ripped me off.

    I sent you a cardboard boxed version of Sengoku on good faith & you in turn sent me a photocopied insert that you had cut the top off of with an excato-knife to make it fit along with cutting the plastic on the case as well.

    Go to hell chris.

    ~Billkwando




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    These multicarts will eventually burn up your mvs board.
    ^ the above statement is absurd and was quoted sarcastically, if that doesn't come across clearly enough.

  11. #111
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    Originally posted by Billkwando
    No. You would have taken it back and kept both carts to yourself after you sent me your 'corrected' insert.

    I had faith that I could have trusted you over pee-on ages ago and you ripped me off.

    I sent you a cardboard boxed version of Sengoku on good faith & you in turn sent me a photocopied insert that you had cut the top off of with an excato-knife to make it fit along with cutting the plastic on the case as well.

    Go to hell chris.

    ~Billkwando
    Hmm... Lets recap this story for the 100th time.... We made a trade, cardboard sengoku for regular. I sent you a sengoku 1 in decent shape, and you sent me a cardboard in decent shape. You say it had a photocopied insert - NOT CORRECTED, but photocopied. Why in the hell would I photocopy a C condition sengoku insert to keep? I just pulled the thing off my shelf of hundreds of carts and sent it. I offered immediately yo trade back and you refused, saying you were scared to send the cart back, hence the current situation. I fail to see how it is my fault. I doubted from the beginning it WAS even photocopied, but I was willing to trade back anyway. The entire deal was worth like $20.

    But in your mind I really was looking to rip you off.

    This is the best people can come up with in the last 8 years. Man, I feel like a real crook.

    I am still willing to trade back.

    Just let me know,

    Thanks,

    Chris

  12. #112
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    Chris is the master of revisionist history.

    If something happened a said way, he starts re-writing it to try and make it look like he was the victimized seller who did what he could to make ammends.

    As I said before, you are an incredible liar. You believe everything that comes out of your mouth. It's amazing what a loser you are.

    Even when the facts look you dead in the face you attempt to spin the facts into something that is more friendly to you.

    You know what's going to happen Chris, one day someone your "company" jacked is going to decide to extract revenge on you and Dion. Somehow I doubt it'll turn out good for either one of you.

  13. #113
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    Originally posted by DangerousK
    Chris is the master of revisionist history.

    If something happened a said way, he starts re-writing it to try and make it look like he was the victimized seller who did what he could to make ammends.

    As I said before, you are an incredible liar. You believe everything that comes out of your mouth. It's amazing what a loser you are.

    Even when the facts look you dead in the face you attempt to spin the facts into something that is more friendly to you.

    You know what's going to happen Chris, one day someone your "company" jacked is going to decide to extract revenge on you and Dion. Somehow I doubt it'll turn out good for either one of you.
    I fail to see how this is revisionist history. If you read both mine and billys post you will see the same thing. He admits I offered a trade-back, and that he was "scared" to send back his $20 cart.

    You were probably in 5th grade when this incident happened in the late 90's. Now you want to interject your opinion on who I am and what I have done?

    I guess I am still waiting for someone else to come here and tell me how I screwed them. It sure is taking a long time isnt it?

    ChrisR

  14. #114
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    Originally posted by chrisr
    I am still willing to trade back.

    Originally posted by chrisr
    On a side note, why not ask Joe how much stock I have left last time he was at my house? I have none.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Steel View Post
    I'm not beating my girlfriend. I swear to God.
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    You made it very clear that no guy has fucked you in the ass.

  15. #115

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    Why not have a one one one debate instead of the usual repetitive scenario.
    Bobak doesnt have anything to hide and is more than capable legally speaking and otherwise of looking after himself.
    Both Bobak and Chris Ray are mods on various forums so they possess the neccesary skills to state their points clearly and independantly on what is undoubtedly an interesting debate for the rest of us
    I think a one on one debate would be interesting

  16. #116
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    Exclamation

    Okay ahh, I think it may be time to step back and have a good look at what all this legal debate is supposed to achieve! I'm not saying it’s not all good interesting stuff and more than a little entertaining, but ChrisR what are you actually trying to achieve with all this? Yes, I suppose there’s always a slim chance that a few of the folks here may actually be convinced by some of the points you're making, but unfortunately the bottom line always has been that NGF decided at some point to repackage AES/NGH carts with reprinted inserts complete with your label on the back, stamp and sticker booklets and the list goes on. You have to have thought at least for a moment or two that this is a purely sacrilegious practice no matter what form of collectable goods undergo this sort of manipulation!

    Unfortunately for some of us, in the early days of our Neo collecting, blinded by ignorance, decided to buy a few carts from you and are now cursed with largely unsaleable items defaced with now ‘Scourge’ status labels and stamps. I personally bought copies of (the now infamous) KOF 2k English, KOF 99 and a copy of Sengoku 2 from NGF and even the last of these titles had a homebrew insert with the NGF logo on the back! Surely you can understand why people have become highly intolerant of both you and Dion. As a collector of Neo gear yourself, how can you see any value left in an NGF altered Neo cart. The collectability has been destroyed and it’s reduced to what is essentially a cheap knock-off or if nothing else simply ‘non-original’. I'm really not going out of my way to play some touchy feely card here, rather I'm simply trying to offer up something constructive rather than just flaming you! I really am interested in hearing your reasoning for altering the insert of a title like Sengoku 2 of all games? A simple ‘why’ is all I have to ask. What’s wrong with just being a reseller like the rest of the market place?

    Regards
    Toby
    Seeing Terry step out of the yellow Cab all those years ago was enough for me!!!

    Old Skool forever!!

  17. #117
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    I wonder if chrisr or dion have any freaked games in their collections. I seriously doubt that they do.

  18. #118
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    Originally posted by rugal2000
    Why not have a one one one debate instead of the usual repetitive scenario.
    Bobak doesnt have anything to hide and is more than capable legally speaking and otherwise of looking after himself.
    Both Bobak and Chris Ray are mods on various forums so they possess the neccesary skills to state their points clearly and independantly on what is undoubtedly an interesting debate for the rest of us
    I think a one on one debate would be interesting
    That was my goal from the beginning of this thread. It was supposed to be only myself and bobak. It didnt turn out that way, but I feel the information I wanted to get out has gotten out, so I am satisfied. Its not about convincing people in my book, just offering the information and letting people decide for themselves.

    The thing that annoys me about this site is the intimidation that is wielded on members if they dont "fall in line", with the status quo. I think its sad that probably 80% of the people here really only know whats going on with the neo geo through spoon feeding from the propoganda machine that are the frequent posters here.

    I am happy to voice my thoughts and opinions free of fear of being "flamed", as I already know thats coming!

    Thanks,

    ChrisR

  19. #119
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    Originally posted by chrisr


    The thing that annoys me about this site is the intimidation that is wielded on members if they dont "fall in line", with the status quo. I think its sad that probably 80% of the people here really only know whats going on with the neo geo through spoon feeding from the propoganda machine that are the frequent posters here.

    I am happy to voice my thoughts and opinions free of fear of being "flamed", as I already know thats coming!

    Thanks,

    ChrisR
    Then why don't you go voice your independent opinion on your own foru.... oh yeah.... nobody'll see it.

    HAHAHA!

    That and the fact that this thread wouldn't happen over there because god knows... if it's an opinion that Dion doesn't agree with over there.. it's quickly modded or edited. So the situation over there would be the same.. You and Dion talking to each other.. and no one would care.


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  20. #120
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    Originally posted by John_Smith
    Okay ahh, I think it may be time to step back and have a good look at what all this legal debate is supposed to achieve! I'm not saying it’s not all good interesting stuff and more than a little entertaining, but ChrisR what are you actually trying to achieve with all this? Yes, I suppose there’s always a slim chance that a few of the folks here may actually be convinced by some of the points you're making, but unfortunately the bottom line always has been that NGF decided at some point to repackage AES/NGH carts with reprinted inserts complete with your label on the back, stamp and sticker booklets and the list goes on. You have to have thought at least for a moment or two that this is a purely sacrilegious practice no matter what form of collectable goods undergo this sort of manipulation!

    Unfortunately for some of us, in the early days of our Neo collecting, blinded by ignorance, decided to buy a few carts from you and are now cursed with largely unsaleable items defaced with now ‘Scourge’ status labels and stamps. I personally bought copies of (the now infamous) KOF 2k English, KOF 99 and a copy of Sengoku 2 from NGF and even the last of these titles had a homebrew insert with the NGF logo on the back! Surely you can understand why people have become highly intolerant of both you and Dion. As a collector of Neo gear yourself, how can you see any value left in an NGF altered Neo cart. The collectability has been destroyed and it’s reduced to what is essentially a cheap knock-off or if nothing else simply ‘non-original’. I'm really not going out of my way to play some touchy feely card here, rather I'm simply trying to offer up something constructive rather than just flaming you! I really am interested in hearing your reasoning for altering the insert of a title like Sengoku 2 of all games? A simple ‘why’ is all I have to ask. What’s wrong with just being a reseller like the rest of the market place?

    Regards
    Toby

    Toby,

    The issue of repackaging games goes back to the entire genre coding system discussions of many years back. It is common knowledge that the reasoning for the NGF corrected inserts was to right the wrongs of the former SNK or America. There was supposed to be a genre coding system (which is used in japan), implemented on all english releases. It was haphazardly followed, and really incomplete. Our goeal from day one was to implement the true original objective of SNK Japan, and have a logical genre coding system for all neo geo titles.

    When we aquired the rights to repackage all neo geo games, we implemented this system across the board on all games that needed it (Sengoku 2 being one). We used the original artwork files to restore the original insert intentions on over 100 titles. There are some that did not need correcting (many of the fighters), but all that did were. We put our URL box on the back to MAKE SURE everyone was aware where the games came from... How that is deceptive is beyond me, we were providing the origins right on the insert. Also, this was part of the agreement with SNK. We included the box to display the agreement.

    People that own the inserts really like them, and by the way, every single cart I have is displayed with the NGF inserts. It works well with people that come over and want to play a game but have no idea about the neo. I tell them pick a green stripe for sports, or blue for shooting, it is the perfect way to keep the games organized. You can claim that isnt the way SNK wanted it, but in fact it always was, just check the japanese games and see the box that says "fighting, Racing, shooting, etc".

    The inserts were attacked when the "collectors" showed up - people that may have come from things such as magic cards. People that have never ever heard of the neo geo before the late 90's. These people tried to apply the logic of collecting to the neo geo for financial gain, and it has done a number on the price of neo geo carts. Now when people cry about mint this, or how a game is worthless because the manual is missing, or there is a crease on the corner of an insert, I get sick thinkabout these morons that are what all the people thought the orginal NeoGeoFreaks really were. But the truth is the early NeoGeoFreaks were gamers that loved neo geo games, and would find something good about every game, including LOSJ. Nowadays you have the kids that trash every new game, and worry only about if it will increase in value, and how fast. Its really a joke.... But i digress.

    ChrisR

  21. #121
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    chrisr, I have not seen your "corrected" inserts before so I can't comment on the quality or what everyone else is talking about, BUT I do recall in a (very) old Neo Geo catalog...maybe '92 or '93 (Baseball Stars Pro 2 was on the cover) that did have the color coding. I've had that catalog up until about a year ago but since I moved I can't seem to locate it. Hopefully it'll turn up somewhere..... Thorough answer btw.
    Neo Geo MVS 4-slot in a Dynamo cab(Metal Slug X, Metal Slug 3, Metal Slug 4, Metal Slug 5, Samurai Showdown, Samurai Showdown 2, Samurai Showdown 4, Samurai Showdown 5, KOF '98, KOF '02, SvC:CHAOS, Crossed Swords, Super Spy, Shock Troopers and Garou MotW.)

  22. #122
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    "Our goeal from day one was to implement the true original objective of SNK Japan, and have a logical genre coding system for all neo geo titles. "

    If it was their true objective, they would have done it themselves...it was your objective to modify the inserts to your liking when SNK decided not to implement the coding system. If you had modified the inserts for yourself, then that would be one thing, but you had no right to destroy thousands of original SNK inserts and sell YOUR insert, which you believed to be more appropriate.

  23. #123
    If I change my Custom
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    Originally posted by chrisr

    The inserts were attacked when the "collectors" showed up - people that may have come from things such as magic cards.

    Personally i found that hilarious.
    There is too much confusion.

  24. #124
    Former Moderator chimpmeister's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally posted by chrisr
    Toby,

    The issue of repackaging games <bullshit snipped>
    ChrisR
    Chris, why do you waste so much time on replies? Surely you know your reputation is dead in this hobby, no one has any respect for you or your lame repackaged non-original substandard games at all (except your retarded friend Makismo)? There's nothing at all left to salvage, dude. At least have a shred of dignity and walk away, from these forums and this hobby, since there is clearly nothing whatsoever you can do to ever salvage your rep.

    You really are wasting your time trying to resurrect your long-ago dead reputation . . . and trying to spin the past history to make yourself look like the noble hero who did "great things" for this hobby. You aren't, and you never will be; you'll always just be a retard who tainted this hobby for awhile, then was handed his walking papers by the very company you claimed to be so closely affiliated with. Truly pathetic, and humiliating for you.

    The more you whine and try to spin things, the sillier you look, regardless of your arrogance and condescending attitude. NGF's name (and yours and Dion's, of course, since NGF never really existed as a company officially) is dirt in this hobby, and that will simply never change. Why not just move on to try to ruin another hobby, since 99.99% of the people in this one are fully aware of your past history and won't have anything to do with you?
    [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/chimpmeister/msx4.jpg[/img].[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/chimpmeister/msx2.jpg[/img]

  25. #125
    Jaguar Ninja
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    Originally posted by Slice&Dice
    "Our goeal from day one was to implement the true original objective of SNK Japan, and have a logical genre coding system for all neo geo titles. "

    If it was their true objective, they would have done it themselves...it was your objective to modify the inserts to your liking when SNK decided not to implement the coding system. If you had modified the inserts for yourself, then that would be one thing, but you had no right to destroy thousands of original SNK inserts and sell YOUR insert, which you believed to be more appropriate.
    Indeed. A move that would have satisfied both the collectors and the "correctors" would've been to have sold the carts with both the original inserts and the "corrected" ones -- and without stamping and stickering the rest of the packaging (wasn't it enough that the backs of the "corrected" inserts bore the NGF logo?).

    --Chris

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