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Thread: about the freaks. SNK RESPONSE

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    Post about the freaks. SNK RESPONSE

    [EDITOR'S NOTE: In the NGF saga, this thread serves as the prelude to SNK's legal actions against Dion Dakis, Chris Ray and their NGF --cementing the fact that they were not the saviors of the Neo Geo that they had long claimed (even as most had stopped believing them). On a seperate note, this is also the thread where Judge Dredd matured into the character he is today.]

    here's the email i sent to snk:

    "My question is in regards to a site I recently came across while looking to purchase Neo Geo home games. The site(s) question <a href="http://www.ngfusa.com" target="_blank">www.ngfusa.com</a> and <a href="http://www.neogeofreak.com." target="_blank">www.neogeofreak.com.</a> On both of these sites they make comment on selling "corrected" inserts. I have contacted the site moderators inquiring to what "corrected" means and they both clearly state they are re-printing original inserts with a corrected spine. They also have stated they are doing this on your (SNK) behalf. Since I see you (SNK) still hold the copyrights to these inserts and have been unable to find and evidence of them owning these on the U.S. copyright web site I was just wondering if you have given them permission to reprint these inserts and resell them on their website? I also saw on the website a fact that stated:

    "How much do I have to change in my own work to make a new claim of copyright?
    You may make a new claim in your work if the changes are substantial and creative -- something more than just editorial changes or minor changes. This would qualify as a new derivative work. For instance, simply making spelling corrections throughout a work does not warrant a new registration -- adding an additional chapter would. See Circular 14 for further information."

    Wouldn't that make what they're doing illegal? I would really like to know about this because I am interested in purchasing games from them but I would like to know I'm not purchasing an illegal and/or bootleg copy of a Neo Geo games.

    Sincerely,
    Scott"

    here's their response to this:

    "Hello Scott,
    In regards to your recent email concerning ngfusa.com, they have no
    right to change or reprint any of the home cartridges inserts. They are
    clearly NOT doing this on our behalf.
    Regards,

    SNK NEOGEO USA CORP."

    I think this is a clear message for chris, dion , any of YOU that have purchased games from them and all their fucked up worshipers. Now I hope snk goes after these assholes.
    Last edited by aria; 11-01-2005 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Nominated by Bobak
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82025

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    Scott,
    Email them back and see if any course of action is being taken against them. I want them to fry... No one dicks with SNK and gets away with it....

    Mike
    - Mike "Big Dog" Denni

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    [quote]Originally posted by Rage of the Spyder:
    <strong>Scott,
    Email them back and see if any course of action is being taken against them. I want them to fry... No one dicks with SNK and gets away with it....

    Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>


    if there is legal action pending, SNK WOULD NOT be explaining the details to a person sending an email. that kind of stuff is kept quiet until it actually happens. the response i got back was, "I cannot comment on this issue at this time"

    so stop asking SNKneogeo what they are going to do about the freaks. wait and see.

    [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: SamuraiShodownSensei ]</p>

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    [quote]Originally posted by SamuraiShodownSensei:
    <strong>


    if there is legal action pending, SNK WOULD NOT be explaining the details to a person sending an email. that kind of stuff is kept quiet until it actually happens. the response i got back was, "I cannot comment on this issue at this time"

    so stop asking SNKneogeo what they are going to do about the freaks. wait and see.

    [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: SamuraiShodownSensei ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Actually they may. If they've filed suit against them one would only need to know the county in which the suit was filed. Then a simple call to the clerks of courts and a request for the case info would explain everything. Finding out which county or whether they've filed is the semi-difficult part.
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82025

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    SNK has to be careful about what they say. If they do go to court, I'm sure SNK does not want Dion telling the judge SNK was slandering their name, that would only complicate the case.

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    I think their response translates to:

    "They're doing what?"

    ...with a subtle unwritten subtext of "We'll look into it"

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    [quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
    <strong>I think their response translates to:

    "They're doing what?"

    ...with a subtle unwritten subtext of "We'll look into it"</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Exactly.

  9. #9
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    I hope SNK busts'em. It'd be funny to see the "big tymers" doin' time in the state pen... LOL.

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    I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.

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    [quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
    <strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I would be willing to donate money on behalf of SNK to sue these guys. Suing them based on their antics is stupid and should be remembered by people reading this. Suing them for U.S. federal copyright laws is something I'm all for. Wouldn't most members here donate some cash to at least watch this court case. If somebody's willing to spend $2,495 on metal slug certainly they could donate $200
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82025

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    fry in hell, NGF!!!

    i'd be in for that as well..
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    nLord:
    <strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong>[/QUOTE]

    That's probably the reason why they haven't been shut down by authorities by now. They talk a big game about having thousands of customers, when in reality they can barely sell one or two items to people.

    All the insert ripping? I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the people who are photographed are ripping photocopied inserts that they claim to be "real" just to get people all wound up.

    If people did want to try and shut them down, they would send Playmore some of NGF's supposed "official product" so they can see for themselves what they are doing. From the inserts, to the converted carts with ERPOMS, to the autographed Neo Geos. People who have been burned by them should send a "care package" to Playmore to help speed things along. Just a suggestion...
    KOF Team China Enthusiast & Puyo Puyo Addict... Max Rensa - 10

    If the "fun" has disappeared from the Neo Geo and its games, it CERTAINLY isn't SNK or Playmore's fault. It's the over-crazed fanbase that is trying so desperately to add some value to their shallow lives by adding unnecessary value to an item that is only intended to bring entertainment, not stature. Wake up and become part of the reconstruction... not the future demise.

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    [quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
    <strong> After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Well, actually you'd be surprise what a well written legal notice/warning can do.

    Especially considering there isn't any controversy (what they they are doing is clearly wrong), all SNK Neo Geo USA would have to do is hand the info to the appropriate authority.

    Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?

    [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</p>

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    [quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
    <strong>

    Well, actually you'd be surprise what a well written legal notice/warning can do.

    Especially considering there isn't any controversy (what they they are doing is clearly wrong), all SNK Neo Geo USA would have to do is hand the info to the appropriate authority.

    Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?

    [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

    You gotta a point about just mailing a letter. From communication I've had with them about this and the rambling they have on their website they seem to think SNK/Playmore are nothing but a bunch of pussies. It'd be nice to see them flex some muscle at these guys and get off the rom site stuff for a min. Anyone thought about just corrupting roms and re-distributing them across the net. You'd be suprised how quickly that stuff could spead. No virus, just bogus roms.

    Either way, according to the copyright's website you COULD contact the Nevada district's attorneys office and the U.S. copyrights office. I'm sure they'd investigate for you.
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82025

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    I think in the end, the truth is that Dion and Chris are nothing more than a couple small-tyme idiots who like to stir up outrage in this community.

    Do they sell a lot of product? No.

    Are they viewed with even the smallest iota of respect by other people in this hobby? No.

    Have they taken away substantial sales from SNK/Playmore? No.

    Did their Zupapa "AES" sell 500 copies? Or maybe 100? Even 50, or 20? No to all of the above.

    These clowns can't really be taken seriously. As much as they enjoy stirring things up, they've got so little impact on this hobby that everyone would do best to just ignore them. See, they're both even too scared to post in the most active Neo Geo related forums on the web . . . a good sign of how little they impact our hobby. They can both sit at home, alone in their basements and play with their collections of bullshit, because 99.999% of the real fans could care less about them . . . and the other .001% includes idiots like Makismo, and we all know how RETARDED he is . . . <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

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    Here's an interesting perspective...

    I think that the duo are absolutely vital for the neo community. Wait, don't kill me! Hear me out.

    They are Evil. And that's perfect.

    What would Superman be without Lex Luthor or Batman without the Joker. Pretty boring.

    These goofs are the required foil for the serious gamers. And they do things in such an obvious and goofy way that I can't help but laugh.

    Added to that they are no real threat to us. We know very well not to but anything from them. If a newbie buys something from them and gets burnt it's a shame but they will buy from shawn next time, and all future times.

    They make fake carts, but in a way we can know they are fake, raising the value of real carts.

    They join us all together in our disgust of them. No matter how much we fight between ourselfs we all have that in common. United in the dislike of NGF.

    In the end we should thank them... then punch them in the fucking face for those goddamn stamps they put on everything!

    ..oh. Nevermind.

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    All along the Dipshit Duo has claimed that they are official distributors for SNK-USA. I wonder what they'll say now...It'll be hilarious to hear the OBVIOUS and OUTRIGHT lies that they are going to print...
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    [quote]Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?<hr></blockquote>

    Given how they've acted in the past (and even now) concerning other matters in this scene, I think they've got just enough stupidity-fueled chutzpah to attempt fronting a legal defense even though they are cognizant of the fact that what they're doing is blatantly wrong in the eyes of the law.

    [quote]I think in the end, the truth is that Dion and Chris are nothing more than a couple small-tyme idiots who like to stir up outrage in this community.
    Do they sell a lot of product? No.<hr></blockquote>

    This is probably one of the best points brought up in this thread thus far. What we're dealing with here is a pitiful fan-based "cottage industry" that, truth be told, probably does a laughable amount of sales. However, through years of idle posturing and hype, many have come to believe otherwise, hence the myth of a "mighty" NGF.

    Maybe the fact that the "Big Tymers" aren't really so "big" after all is the true reason why SNK/Playmore or whoever holds the intellectual property rights haven't bothered to get up off their collective asses and make any legal maneuvers. Either way, I'd like to see NGF go down in flames, but the likelihood of that happening is next to nil.

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    [quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
    <strong>
    Maybe the fact that the "Big Tymers" aren't really so "big" after all is the true reason why SNK/Playmore or whoever holds the intellectual property rights haven't bothered to get up off their collective asses and make any legal maneuvers. Either way, I'd like to see NGF go down in flames, but the likelihood of that happening is next to nil.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I disagree. Other corporations have cracked down on a lot less (i.e. Using their artwork on fan websites). In this case I really think it's a matter of steering the new SNK USA at the right target. Particularly in the absense of an official SNK-USA for several years, it is important for the new office to smack down any illegitimate heirs to the throne.

    The whole reason I said "Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them" is for the reason that, even if NGF has deluded itself into thinking its legit (if you lie long enough you sometimes start to believe your own lies), they'd be hard pressed to find an attorney who would believe them in the face of an angry federal trademark holder. Any lawyer would see a doomed case, regardless of what the duo says.

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    [quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
    <strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Hell Chad Okada certainly knew as well as the Barones. Just the cost of pursing legal action on those 2 buttpluggers was not worth the time it would cost.

    That's what Chad's original excuse was. Nowadays I'm wondering if Plamore would actually go into legal proceedings to prosucute the misrepresentation of SNK's products by the irreversable damage that they have done to this hobby...

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    [quote]Originally posted by BonusKun:
    <strong>

    Hell Chad Okada certainly knew as well as the Barones. Just the cost of pursing legal action on those 2 buttpluggers was not worth the time it would cost.

    That's what Chad's original excuse was. Nowadays I'm wondering if Plamore would actually go into legal proceedings to prosucute the misrepresentation of SNK's products by the irreversable damage that they have done to this hobby...</strong><hr></blockquote>

    This is what I've been trying to think of. The irreversable damage done to ONE paticular company and to a hobby shared by thousands. Once again I'd like to state I'd be willing to stuff some cash in an account for SNK/Playmore to use to stop their illegal actions.

    They do not help the community like the Joker or Lex Luther either. Both of those villlans are much smater than Chris and Dion and I have yet to see Zod come down and w00p some ass.
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82025

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    [quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
    <strong>

    This is what I've been trying to think of. The irreversable damage done to ONE paticular company and to a hobby shared by thousands. Once again I'd like to state I'd be willing to stuff some cash in an account for SNK/Playmore to use to stop their illegal actions.

    They do not help the community like the Joker or Lex Luther either. Both of those villlans are much smater than Chris and Dion and I have yet to see Zod come down and w00p some ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Genrally I'm just stating the fact that SNKUSA at the time was quite aware of Dion and Chris thus this...

    #7 The Irritating Maze

    Dion at this time had converted his IM games for NGH with which he claimed he had connections with SNK.

    He claimed that SNK USA refused to sell his game for him and had even tried to have SNK of Japan to force them to have them sell his game.
    He originally also tried to make SNK USA to give him an official Certificate saying that this was an Official SNK Product.

    In an unprecedented move, Alica Barone(The President of SNK USA's Daughter) came down to Dion's club and stated in front of everyone that
    SNK had NOT endorsed The IM project and Dion had no such claim to say as much putting Dion in his place.

    Dion, being unable to dismiss he claims as a "jealous fan" instead of debating the issue, Banned her from his club for what she did.


    The facts are there. It's just getting SNK to do something is what the whole basis of the problem is... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

    Of course I should add to this that the game wouldn't work on an NGH system because of the Bios and of course Dion now claims that it wasn't really alicia who spoke to him which of course is him living in that fantasy world again.

    Same old shit every day.

    Sad but true...

    [ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: BonusKun ]</p>

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    I always thought that the reason why Playmore seems as reluctant as SNK to prosecute the Duo is that they (Playmore) don't expect an imminent loss due to NGF's "products". The two sold (or still sell) some of their fake releases, "corrected" inserts and games with stamped manuals, but if you look at the lineup of NGF releases of the caliber of fake KoF2k US, there's really not much stuff which should give Playmore headaches.

    If you check the Duo's website and look into the games for sale, there's a column called "Maker", but only conversions like Ganryu, Zupapa, NitD, Strikers or Shock Troopers (oh, and Fight Fever, woah) are marked with "NGF", and it doesn't need an Einstein brain to smell fake. They have been proven wrong on numerous occasions by loyal SNK fans and SNK itself alike.

    I bet if the Duo would fuck around with RotD or KoF2k2, things would be different, since these are new releases which are on sale right now, so a falsificated NGF RotD or KoF2k2 with their URL all over the insert and manual would bring Playmore into action.

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    Actually I do have it known as fact that if Dion or Chris tried to fuck around with the MVS market, SNK would have their balls to the wall.

    Period..

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