The MVS Bootleg Forensic Thread

Ely13

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I know there have been many, many, many posts on this subject, and I did my best abusing the search, reading all the replies, looking at the links provided, etc.

I just received 19 MVS carts the other day and I want to spend time checking if any of the carts are boots. It doesn't look like anyone has created a guide to detecting boots so I was hoping to make a list of things I've compiled that people said to check for to see if I'm missing anything and if anyone has things to add:

1) Study all these pictures: http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/bootlegs
2) Boards must be labeled as SNK/Playmore
3) The mask roms should probably be Toshiba or Sharp. The presence of eproms on some carts is not necessarily an indication of a bootleg. SNK chips are custom. If there are proms (i.e., no ngh# embossed on the rom), it is probably a boot. (there will also be other indicators)
4) Soldering job should not be handdone. A few games have a blue capacitor attached to ROM pins (Power Spikes II & Quest of Jongmaster). Also, SVC Chaos has a small weird daughterboard attached to the PROG board.
- Puzzle Bobble has an unique layout.
5) Cross-check the NGH# with the Master List
http://www.neo-geo.com/snk/masterlist.htm
6) EPROMs do not necessarily mean the cart is a boot--SNK may have done last-minute repairs
7) Flash chips definitely indicate a bootleg
8) If PCBs are brown, blue, or gold, it is a bootleg. It is a bootleg if the PCBs are half height or not shaped like a normal MVS PCB (t-shaped).

--Games that are not bootlegs with known oddities--
Power Spikes II - Blue Capacitor
Quest of Jongmaster - Blue Capacitor
SVC Chaos - Small daughterboard thing (anyone have better name for it?)
Puzzle Bobble / Bust-A-Move - NGH # from PB and Power Spikes 2, several EPROM

I think this'll help me catch the more obvious ones, but I was hoping anyone could help add some subtle differences that aren't encompassed by the above. If anyone cares, the seller is Yaton, and the games in question are: Blazing Star, KoF 94/95/96/98/99/01/03, LB 1/2, MS 2/X/4/5, SS 1/2/3/4, and Waku Waku 7. I know he generally doesn't sell boots except by accident, but I also want to learn how to detect MVS boots myself =)
 
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ttooddddyy

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3) Chips should be SNK or Toshiba

The mask roms are Toshiba or maybe Sharp in some cases, however you may see eproms on some carts, which is not necessarily an indication of a bootleg.

SNK chips are custom, I have never seen a SNK cart rom IC.
Edit: things may have changed in recent releases ?

If there are proms, ie no ngh# embossed on the rom, it is probably a boot. (there will also be other indicators)

You could almost rename this the neogeo cart bootleg forensic thread :)
 
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dogtoy

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About #4, some carts do come with random stuff soldered in. There are several carts that have a blue capacitor attached to ROM pins. Also I know SVC Chaos has a small wierd daughterboard attached to the PROG board.

#6 should be EPROM not EEPROM. As toddy pointed out to me awhile ago in a similar mistake eeprom are not used in carts, except for in carts that save info like progress, options, etc. Think NES Ultima or the original GB version of Donkey Kong. SRAM can also be used instead of EEPROM for storage after power down (via on cart battery). Anyway there aren't any neo carts that do this, there is SRAM that backs up settings on the the mvs board, on aes you need a memory card to save any setup options after power-down. The neo mem card as used on aes or mvs for progress/score saves is pretty much just an SRAM and battery.

Maybe we could work out a solid revised list like the one above, also get a list going of carts with extra stuff soldered in (caps etc.) from snk, also carts with weird rom configs like puzzle bobble or anything wierd in a cart that came that way from snk.

If people want to pm me cart names and what is specifically odd about a cart that has been identified as original I'd be glad to add them here. If we all come together on this to compile the known odd carts list and the quick guide to bootleg ID posted above, sticky it in the forum, and nobody would ever have to post "is this a bootleg?" type posts again!

-DT

--Games that are not bootlegs with known oddities--
Power Spikes II - Blue Capacitor
Quest of Jongmaster - Blue Capacitor
SVC Chaos - Small daughterboard thing (anyone have better name for it?) on PROG board
Puzzle Bobble / Bust-A-Move - NGH # from PB and Power Spikes 2, several EPROM
Samurai Showdown V - 1st run carts have daughterboard chip on PROG board
Metal Slug 3 - Some carts may have a daughterboard thing (looks like a neo-geo pocket cart soldered to a normal mvs board?)

Keep em coming here folks!
 
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Superfamifreak

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dogtoy said:
About #4, some carts do come with random stuff soldered in. There are several carts that have a blue capacitor attached to ROM pins.

Definitly add Power Spikes II & Quest of Jongmaster to that list. Both of mine are legit and have the capacitor.

I've had loads of games off yaton and never yet been lumbered with a boot. Besides, if you do get a boot off him, he'll make it right.
 

dogtoy

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I concur about yaton, most of my collection is from him and i've never gotten one. I'm pretty much confident enough in him now to not even open the carts (well not quite, gotta take at least one peak ;) )

cheers,
-DT
 

Superfamifreak

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dogtoy said:
I concur about yaton, most of my collection is from him and i've never gotten one. I'm pretty much confident enough in him now to not even open the carts (well not quite, gotta take at least one peak ;) )

cheers,
-DT

Ah, but you have a valid excuse - you need to clean the case :D
 

dogtoy

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More detection

More detection guidelines:

If there are any flash chips it will most definitely be a bootleg. PROM probably a boot, but could be a repair (EPROM more likely for repairs).

If the pcb's are brown, blue, or gold it is a bootleg. Also, a bootleg if the boards are half height or not even shaped like a normal mvs pcb (t shaped etc.)

-DT
 

Ely13

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ttooddddyy said:
You could almost rename this the neogeo cart bootleg forensic thread :)
Your wish is my command :)

Thank you for all the responses everyone--I've noted what everyone has said and will take it into account once I open up all my carts. On Yaton, I have a hunch he does check for boots now since he told me all my carts are originals and when I asked if he had a few rarer games, he told me had them, albeit as boots (told him I wasn't interested).

If an experienced member here would be interested in creating a master check-off list that'd cover 95%+ of instances, I think it'd be a big assist to the Neo community (and especially to newbs like me).

I've made changes and additions to the original laundry list if anyone wouldn't mind glancing it over.
 

dogtoy

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Looks good! Surely there are more legit carts w/ oddities! Maybe more people will read this over the weekend and inform us.

Regarding #4, you probably don't need to list specific games here if there is going to be a separate list with the known differences.

I do think yaton opens all his carts to check them. That's why he puts in all his auctions something like Original game. Fake label. or Original game and label.

cheers,
-DT
 

Grinwing

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A quick pic guide with what a PROM and Flash chips are would also be helpful for people who have no idea what one chip looks like compared to another. It wouldn't have to be big and would be helpful like the pic showing where the NGH# is located on the chips.

I have a puzzle de pon (jp) that has 033 Fatal Fury numbers on the CHA board. There are no numbers on the two chips on the PROG board. I can get a pic if anyone is interested.

I also have the known PS chips on my Bust A Move cart. Can also get pics of this one if it would help for identifying.
 

dogtoy

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Grinwing said:
I have a puzzle de pon (jp) that has 033 Fatal Fury numbers on the CHA board. There are no numbers on the two chips on the PROG board. I can get a pic if anyone is interested.

I also have the known PS chips on my Bust A Move cart. Can also get pics of this one if it would help for identifying.

Is 033 the only NGH # in that PDP cart? If there are only PROMs or EPROM and a couple of 033 chips it's definitely a bootleg. Post a pic for us.

Your BAM cart sounds normal (which is pretty bizarre looking in it's own right ;) )

cheers,
-DT

*edit* PROM chips look like the regular mask rom chips and may even have numbers on them(probably not correct NGH#), but are often made of plastic not ceramic as mask roms are. Flash chips are surface mount, not dip like any eprom, mask rom, or prom in an mvs/aes cart. They are RADICALLY different looking, and are most often on risers that adapt them to DIP 40 or 42 so they fit in the rom slots on a Neo cart. Pics of flash boots are on the bootleg pic page at the top of the bootleg id list.
 
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Grinwing

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Its an odd one but the soldering looks factory. No burns and no blobs.

Here is a pic of the front side of the boards.
Pdp2.jpg
 

dogtoy

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BUMP!

updated list above (post #3, this thread) to reflect general concensus in Dark Andy's bootleg ROTD and SSV thread that early SSV carts have an odd chip on the PROG board.

I still think we need to get a really good list going here and sticky it in the forum so people don't have to post "is it a boot?" questions!

cheers!
-DT
 
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Superfamifreak

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Maybe someone could host a site with pictures of non boot carts of every release? Sure it would take a while to be complete, but then at least there wouldn't be 'Have I got a boot?' threads every day.

Just a suggestion.
 

Bishamon

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dogtoy said:
I concur about yaton, most of my collection is from him and i've never gotten one. I'm pretty much confident enough in him now to not even open the carts (well not quite, gotta take at least one peak ;) )

They're still worth checking. One out of the five carts I received from Yaton was a boot (SpinMaster), and he confirmed that his other remaining SpinMaster cart is also a boot.
 

Lashujin

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There is a somehwat documented oddity with Metal Slug 3 where some legit copies have the daughterboard thing inside. I had one I bought from Shawn like that and checked it here, the concensus was that it was legit.
 

dogtoy

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Bump for adding metal slug 3 to the list above.

cheers,
-DT
 

chris1

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Boot thread should be stickied..

At least one to keep boot pics and info in..
 

dogtoy

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I've wanted this thread stickied for a long time. I think it would seriously cut down on posts about "is this a bootleg"

Does anyone maintain this http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/bootlegs anymore?


IF not we need a new site that will take bootleg submissions for hosting.

So how about it mods? Someone sticky this?

-DT
 

SpamYouToDeath

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I've got a legit KoF95 (correct boards, original label, etc) with EPROMs for P1, EP1, EP2, SP2, and M1 (M1 has a SNK seal on the window)... it's an awful lot, but every other chip is correct. I suspect that it may be one of those Korean versions or whatever...
 

Mutation

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About the chips with names stamped used, they mainly 're Toshiba, Sharp or Oki.

About the oddities (except V Liner, Jockey Grand Prix and the prototypes) :

- there're revisions of the games which use EP (examples : Samurai Shodown III : 4 EP, Garou : 4 EP, Pochi and Nyaa : EP1...),

- there're revisions of the games with different P's (examples : Metal Slug 3 with 256-PG1, 256-PG2 and Neo-SMA, Metal Slug 3 with 256-PH1 and 256-PH2, Metal Slug 3 with 256-P1, 256-P2 and Neo-SMA...),

- SNK Vs. Capcom SVC Chaos and Samurai Shodown V 're the only games with Neo-HYCS on V1,

- some games 've special names stamped (examples : The King of Fighters 2003, Metal Slug 5 and SNK Vs. Capcom SVC Chaos' names stamped [nearly similar to the AES versions] : 269-C1R to 269-C8R for SNK Vs. Capcom SVC Chaos MVS, 271-C1C to 271-C8C, 271-M1C, 271-P1C to P3 (which has a sticker), 271-V1C and 271-V2C for The King of Fighters 2003 MVS, 268-C1C to 268-C8C, 268-P1CR and 268-P2CR, 268-V1C and 268-V2C for Metal Slug 5 MVS),

- The King of Fighters 2003, Metal Slug 5 and SNK Vs. Capcom SVC Chaos 're the only NeoGeo games adapted in JAMMA PCB but the names stamped 're different than the ones in MVS, see Metal Slug 5 PCB picture :

ms5pcb13ff.jpg


- The King of Fighters '98 has a smaller chip for P1, see the picture from sgrepository submitted by Eddyiori :

http://www.sgrepository.com/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10087/kof98.jpg
 
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pellucidity

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SpamYouToDeath said:
I've got a legit KoF95 (correct boards, original label, etc) with EPROMs for P1, EP1, EP2, SP2, and M1 (M1 has a SNK seal on the window)... it's an awful lot, but every other chip is correct. I suspect that it may be one of those Korean versions or whatever...

My KOF'95 is the same, all the P's are uncovered EPROMs with colored stripes drawn on them, and S1 and M1 both have silver SNK seals on them. V1 also has a wire coming off of it! That said, all the rest of the chips are mask roms with the correct NGH number on them (some Toshiba, some unbranded).
 
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chris1

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chris1 said:
Boot thread should be stickied..

At least one to keep boot pics and info in..


Boot thread should be stickied..And we can keep adding info to it..
 

Heinz

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Don't know if this has been added yet, some (or all?) KOF2K3 carts have one EPROM on them (cant remember what chip it was for)
They are still 100% legit if they do have the EPROM.
 
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