XRGB 2+ and SCART

Official Ninja · Apr 28, 2010

I have a nice XRGB 2+ that I have been using to upscale an old TRS-80 computer to VGA. Soon though I will be using another device and I was wondering if I could use the XRGB 2+ with my AES.

Is there a SCART cable for the AES? One that is pre-made? Will it work with my XRGB 2+?

If I use an AES to SCART cable to the XRGB2+ and then hook the XRGB2+ up to a VGA monitor I should get a very good picture?

Xian Xi · Apr 28, 2010

Yes there is a premade Neo Scart cable, I'm not sure if it's Euro or Jp though. Plus the price it goes for is around $50+, you might as well have one made for you or make one yourself. The picture should also be very nice.

Official Ninja · Apr 28, 2010

Thanks.

Anyone here want to make the cable and sell it to me? :-)

I see the cable on ebay and it is Euro scart. (Sold in the UK) I regrettably lost the manual to my XRGB2+, I'm not sure if it can input either Euro or JP scart. Maybe it can do both?

I better wait till next month when I get this other device for my TRS-80. Once I get that sorted out I'll know for sure if I have the XRGB to spare.

MKL · Apr 28, 2010

You must only use Japanese RGB-21 wired cables with the XRGB units. A scart cable will likely damage them. The official SNK RGB cable is wired correctly for the XRGB.

Official Ninja · Apr 28, 2010

MKL said:
You must only use Japanese RGB-21 wired cables with the XRGB units. A scart cable will likely damage them. The official SNK RGB cable is wired correctly for the XRGB.

Thanks MKL. Any idea where I could purchase the Official RGB cable?

MKL · Apr 28, 2010

Official Ninja said:
Thanks MKL. Any idea where I could purchase the Official RGB cable?

They're rare, overpriced and not particularly well made. Just buy a scart one and rewire it or have someone make you one from the scratch.

Official Ninja · Apr 28, 2010

MKL said:
They're rare, overpriced and not particularly well made. Just buy a scart one and rewire it or have someone make you one from the scratch.

I read something about a Euro scart to J21 scart adapter, but could not find one for sale anywhere on the internet.

If I could fine one of those it would be easiest since it looks like the Euro cables are readily available and for not too much money.

Thanks for the help!

MKL · Apr 29, 2010

If you can't find anything closer to you I can make you one.

Official Ninja · May 12, 2010

I have a euro to J scart adapter and cable coming from MKL.

Yesterday I decided to play around with my AES and the XRGB2+ hooked up via the standard compostie cable. I noticed that the XRGB seems to have the same sync problem with the AES that many TVs have. I tried several VGA monitors, some CRT, some LCD, and even a 37" LCD TV. Some handled it better than others, but they all had issues from screen tearing to "clicking" in and out of the video mode.

So if my AES has sync issue via composite with the XRGB, will it display the same sync issues with RGB and scart?

RGB32e · May 12, 2010

Official Ninja said:
I have a euro to J scart adapter and cable coming from MKL.

Yesterday I decided to play around with my AES and the XRGB2+ hooked up via the standard compostie cable. I noticed that the XRGB seems to have the same sync problem with the AES that many TVs have. I tried several VGA monitors, some CRT, some LCD, and even a 37" LCD TV. Some handled it better than others, but they all had issues from screen tearing to "clicking" in and out of the video mode.

So if my AES has sync issue via composite with the XRGB, will it display the same sync issues with RGB and scart?

Neo Geo systems (especially MVS) typically have image stability problems with line doubling XRGBs. I have a XRGB-3. In B0 mode (full scaling), the image is completely stable. In B1 mode (XRGB-2+ mode), I cannot get a stable image with my MVS (no good "AFC Level" setting). I've yet to try a sync cleaning solution primarily since I don't use B1 mode very often!

So, buy a XRGB-3 if you're so inclined! :mr_t:

El Capitan · May 12, 2010

Those NeoScart leads on eBay UK are made by the guy - and I think he's a member here (although I'm not sure who).

Ask him (via eBay I guess) to make you one up specially.

Official Ninja · May 12, 2010

Thanks. Not for $300+ !!! Is there any more affordable device that will accept SCART and output VGA or component, HDMI?

Fox1 · May 12, 2010

I have a JP Neo scart cable if you need it...worked with my xrgb2+ when I had it.

RGB32e · May 17, 2010

Official Ninja said:
Thanks. Not for $300+ !!! Is there any more affordable device that will accept SCART and output VGA or component, HDMI?

There are other devices in the below $100 category. Unfortunately they all pale by comparision. Here's B0:

I'll be posting Youtube HD videos of what you loose by not using a XRGB... if you don't have money for a proper device, just stick with RGB or component to a CRT TV, or else you'd be taking a step or two backwards. :hammer:

Official Ninja · May 18, 2010

RGB32e said:
There are other devices in the below $100 category. Unfortunately they all pale by comparision. Here's B0:

I'll be posting Youtube HD videos of what you loose by not using a XRGB... if you don't have money for a proper device, just stick with RGB or component to a CRT TV, or else you'd be taking a step or two backwards.

I'm hesitant to spend $300 on the XRGB3. I have the XRGB2+ and to be honest, it doesn't seem that great. When scaling composite to VGA, I have an Aver TV Genie that kicks its ass outright. I have an old Tandy computer that puts out a RGB signal same as an old arcade board, the image is dull and blurry. The XRGB sharpness cleans it up but then the picture gets slightly wavy. Enough to annoy me. I already posted above, my AES over composite has sync problems. There is a line in audio port in the back that doesnt seem to do anything....

Maybe the XRGB3 fixes many problems that the XRGB2+ has but for that amount of money I'll look for another solution. When I get my SCART cable for the AES and if it works good I'll keep the XRGB2+ otherwise I'll sell it or put it away in a box somewhere.

I heard the makers of the XRGB are not going to make anymore devices like this.

SuperDeadite · May 18, 2010

Well thing is, you should never use Composite with an XRGB, as you can't really improve such a shitty signal anyways. Use RGB with the XRGB, it's the whole reason why you'd buy one.

Thing to note is that the 2 and 2+ are simply line doublers they do not really upscale the image. This is why they managed to be totally lag free though. The 3 is actually a true upscaller, thing lagged when it first came out, but I hear firmware updates have helped a bit.

Still a CRT w/ RGB or Component, or even S-Video will generally still beat an XRGB on an LCD TV anyday. Now an XRGB+CRT Computer Monitor is a beautiful combination.

Official Ninja · May 19, 2010

I got my SCART cable yesterday and tested my AES with my XRGB2+.

The sync issue is so bad that during the intro of Samurai Shodown, the XRGB thinks the input is being restarted every few seconds. (It keeps showing the GAME label as if it was just turned on) On a CRT SVGA monitor you miss the whole intro of the guy cutting the posts because the monitor keeps clicking in and out of whatever mode its trying to do.

I guess the question is, is it my AES that is this bad? Is there a board revision that is better? Is there any mod to the AES to make it stable?

Ive read here about people using AES with the XRGB2+ and I just don't see how it is possible unless there are differences in the AES. Or maybe even revisions on the XRGB2+?

Rawit · May 19, 2010

There are a few revisions of the AES board. The changes that were made are mostly about the video output. I have a lower serial 5-3 model with a daughterboard, which is supposed to have a good RGB output.

Using a Euro Scart cable my old but dying CRT gives a fantastic image, pure arcade quality. My Panasonic LCD drops from RGB to Composite mode every second and gives an audible click. I guess the video output is not completely complying to the standards.

I have an XRGB-3 coming in soon, so I can connect my AES and SNES to it. I'm planning to use the B0 mode (which gives no problems apparently). I will try to use the B1 mode directly and in combination with a VGA to DVI scaler (which seems to fix sync problems). I will let you know how it works out. Some people add a LM1881 sync separator to their setup and it seems to solve a lot of problems for certain kinds of arcade hardware.

MKL · May 19, 2010

Official Ninja said:
I have a euro to J scart adapter and cable coming from MKL.

Yesterday I decided to play around with my AES and the XRGB2+ hooked up via the standard compostie cable. I noticed that the XRGB seems to have the same sync problem with the AES that many TVs have. I tried several VGA monitors, some CRT, some LCD, and even a 37" LCD TV. Some handled it better than others, but they all had issues from screen tearing to "clicking" in and out of the video mode.

So if my AES has sync issue via composite with the XRGB, will it display the same sync issues with RGB and scart?

Well, the scart RGB cable I made you uses composite video as sync (pin 3 on the A/V port).

The official SNK Japanese RGB-21 cable (called FCG-9) uses composite sync as sync (pin 7 on the A/V port). And Fox1 (if his cable is the official one) said that

Fox1 said:
I have a JP Neo scart cable if you need it...worked with my xrgb2+ when I had it.

So perhaps it could be that the sync signal works and the composite signal doesn't.

On the other hand we have this claim that the MVS sync doesn't work with the XRGB2+ and since the AES sync is the same as the MVS sync it shouldn't work either:

RGB32e said:
Neo Geo systems (especially MVS) typically have image stability problems with line doubling XRGBs.

Anyway, not all AES systems have sync on the A/V port: on the last two revisions (3-5 and 3-6) pin 3 and 7 are both composite video. Sync can be restored on these systems with a simple mod.

If you want to try and see if sync works instead of composite then the first step is to check what revision you have: open up the system and read the code along the PCB edge.

Xian Xi · May 19, 2010

I've had a few AES systems that had dirty sync from the AV port that required a sync cleaner to work properly.

Does the image have a green and purple outline or is it clear but just not syncing?

Official Ninja · May 19, 2010

Xian Xi said:
I've had a few AES systems that had dirty sync from the AV port that required a sync cleaner to work properly.

Does the image have a green and purple outline or is it clear but just not syncing?

When it shows on screen, it is clear.

I'm going to peek in the system and look at the rev of my AES when I get home tonight. I think its an early model. I purchased it as a gold system in 1990(?)
I forget the year exactly, but I had a choice of baseball starts, magician lord, or nam 75 when I purchased it.

Xian Xi · May 19, 2010

Does the image jump around or is it stable but you get ghost images?

Official Ninja · May 19, 2010

Xian Xi said:
Does the image jump around or is it stable but you get ghost images?

Its stable. It has the same sync problems as if it was hooked up via composite.

I have no idea what version board I have. There doesnt seem to be a revision listed on it. Maybe someone else can see, even if these pictures are crappy.

I made a imageshack album here:

http://img203.imageshack.us/g/aes2861.jpg/

Help!!!!

EDIT: Looks like I have the 1st version board? So no revision?

Xian Xi · May 19, 2010

Yup, first gen.

Official Ninja · May 19, 2010

MKL said:
Well, the scart RGB cable I made you uses composite video as sync (pin 3 on the A/V port).

The official SNK Japanese RGB-21 cable (called FCG-9) uses composite sync as sync (pin 7 on the A/V port). And Fox1 (if his cable is the official one) said that

So perhaps it could be that the sync signal works and the composite signal doesn't.

On the other hand we have this claim that the MVS sync doesn't work with the XRGB2+ and since the AES sync is the same as the MVS sync it shouldn't work either:

Anyway, not all AES systems have sync on the A/V port: on the last two revisions (3-5 and 3-6) pin 3 and 7 are both composite video. Sync can be restored on these systems with a simple mod.

If you want to try and see if sync works instead of composite then the first step is to check what revision you have: open up the system and read the code along the PCB edge.

So, since I have the 1st generation AES I have sync at pin 7? Should I open the DIN end of the cable you made and move the wire from pin 3 to pin 7 and give that a try? Does the euro J adapter need to be changed also?

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