CMVS Component vs S-video

Finch · Dec 28, 2009

how big of a difference is there between Component and S-video on a Neobitz board? I'm working on CMVS #2 after I decided that CMVS #1 is a bit awkward to use (1fz's don't go into enclosures easily).

I'm currently using a Neobitz-S and it looks pretty good, but I do notice that S-video looks too bright and over saturated (Especialy in Waku Waku 7). Would component fix this problem, or could it also be fixed by adding some pots on the RGB lines.
Does anyone have side by side comparison images?

For reference, I'm using this on a Sony 34XBR910, HD CRT.

P00t · Dec 28, 2009

Finch said:
how big of a difference is there between Component and S-video on a Neobitz board? I'm working on CMVS #2 after I decided that CMVS #1 is a bit awkward to use (1fz's don't go into enclosures easily).

I'm currently using a Neobitz-S and it looks pretty good, but I do notice that S-video looks too bright and over saturated (Especialy in Waku Waku 7). Would component fix this problem, or could it also be fixed by adding some pots on the RGB lines.
Does anyone have side by side comparison images?

For reference, I'm using this on a Sony 34XBR910, HD CRT.

Would be easier to fit some 1k pots onto your RGB lines, I had the same problem with the atomiswave, the colours were really bright, but after adding pots it became adjustable and easily fixed for any TV you plug into.

IMO I think Svideo looks better than Component, especially on my TV anyway, for some reason when I make a fire shot in Metal Slug my LCD TV screen flashes white, but I never get this issue with SVideo.

Finch · Dec 28, 2009

thanks, that will probably save me some money in the near future.

Syn · Dec 28, 2009

It seems like a lot of lcd owners are getting better results with s-video!

I know with my Toshiba 27" crt the component is noticibly better than the s-vid. Luckily my cmvs has both so when I eventually buy a HDTV I'm set.

FairlanePhantom · Dec 28, 2009

There isn't a crazy difference between the two, but I say use component. It seems like it's hard to find televisions that still have an s-video port.

Xian Xi · Dec 28, 2009

Finch said:
how big of a difference is there between Component and S-video on a Neobitz board? I'm working on CMVS #2 after I decided that CMVS #1 is a bit awkward to use (1fz's don't go into enclosures easily).

I'm currently using a Neobitz-S and it looks pretty good, but I do notice that S-video looks too bright and over saturated (Especialy in Waku Waku 7). Would component fix this problem, or could it also be fixed by adding some pots on the RGB lines.
Does anyone have side by side comparison images?

For reference, I'm using this on a Sony 34XBR910, HD CRT.

For AES I use a Neobitz-S with the stock 75ohm resistors, for use on a CRT TV. If using on an LCD you might want to try 124-150ohm.
For MVS I use a Neobitz-S with 200ohm resistors.

The difference between the component and s-video isn't hugely noticeable but there is a slight difference.

P00t · Dec 28, 2009

Don't forget, if you do decide to go component (upto you really) I'd advise adding some pots to get colours right with different TV's.

Hewitson · Dec 28, 2009

Wtf??

Theres a massive difference between S-Video and Component. Anyone who says otherwise obviously has a shit TV.

Think of it this way: S-Video is basically compressing 3 colour signals into one. Component isn't doing any compression of colour information.

Xian Xi · Dec 28, 2009

Hewitson said:
Wtf??

Theres a massive difference between S-Video and Component. Anyone who says otherwise obviously has a shit TV.

Think of it this way: S-Video is basically compressing 3 colour signals into one. Component isn't doing any compression of colour information.

We're talking about the Neo via S-video and Component.

Hewitson · Dec 28, 2009

How is that relevant? It outputs the same signals as any other analog video device, does it not?

Using your logic a SMS or C64 would look fine with composite video which is certainly NOT the case. Even Atari 2600 looks like shit with composite. The age of the machine is neither here nor there.

Xian Xi · Dec 28, 2009

If you haven't seen a Neo output both S-video and component please stop your comparisions. I have seen it output both many many many many times.

Technically YES there should be a big difference but visually there isn't between the two via THE NEO.

Hewitson · Dec 29, 2009

Xian Xi, for your information my supergun outputs Composite, S-Video, Component and RGB, and I have seen a HUGE variety of systems run in these modes.

I am not sure why you think there is less difference with the Neo Geo running in RGB/Component vs S-Video than any other system in the world, please enlighten us?

ki_atsushi · Dec 29, 2009

As a previous owner of 2 Neobitz modded AES systems and 1 Neobitz modded MV1-FZ system, I can honestly say that Xian Xi is right. S-Video is better in the case of the Neo, the colors are too bright and oversaturated when running component... especially the red channel I've noticed.

Hewitson · Dec 29, 2009

Well yes, if you are too incompetent to add pots to your RGB lines, of course that is going to happen.

If you two were slightly more local I could show you quite a few things on a scope thatd change your minds pretty quickly

Everyone has an opinion but you can't argue with facts.

ki_atsushi · Dec 29, 2009

Hewitson said:
Well yes, if you are too incompetent to add pots to your RGB lines, of course that is going to happen.

If you two were slightly more local I could show you quite a few things on a scope thatd change your minds pretty quickly Everyone has an opinion but you can't argue with facts.

If you add pots to the RGB lines and tone down the brightness, then it really wouldn't look any different than S-Video.

It's more experience than opinion, but whatever. :oh_no:

Hewitson · Dec 29, 2009

I can only imagine you and XX have substandard quality TV's. Either that or the Component output on the Neobitz isn't very good (however I'm quite sure Jeff would have done a good job on it).

Xian Xi · Dec 29, 2009

I have a Sony Wega. The AD724JR is a perfect encoder for the Neo, picture is crisp and clear.

I've used my Neo on countless TVs and both outputs are relatively the same. Like I said the Component is only slightly better since the AD724JR does a great job with the Neo.

I wouldn't be arguing if it wasn't true dude.

Hewitson · Dec 29, 2009

Strange. I use a Sony as well (68cm Trinitron CRT), and the difference is like night & day to me. :conf:

I'll have to post a couple of pictures at some stage. I do use the JROK rather than the Neobitz. Anyone noticed any difference in quality of component video between these encoders?

Xian Xi · Dec 29, 2009

Hewitson said:
Strange. I use a Sony as well (68cm Trinitron CRT), and the difference is like night & day to me.

I'll have to post a couple of pictures at some stage. I do use the JROK rather than the Neobitz. Anyone noticed any difference in quality of component video between these encoders?

I have, to me the Neobitz has a better component output when paired with a sync cleaner. I find that the JROK even with pots has an oversaturated picture on CPS2 boards. It's fine on the Neo though.

But I did notice that the S-video between a JROK and Neobitz are like night and day on the Neo. I checked last night between my CMVS with the Neobitz and my SG with a JROK. I can see what you mean about a big difference on the JROK between the S-Video and Component. When you compare the JROK S-vid to the Neobitz S-vid on a Neo the difference is like night and day. But that stands to reason since Jeff Kurtz wanted the best quality for the Neo where as the JROK is mainly for compatibility between different PCBs. They both met their goal.

Annatar · Dec 29, 2009

And what do you guys think about the KPJ s video mod. my AES has this mod and i use it with a Sony Wega, never had the chance to make any comparisons with other video mods, can you tell me something?

Xian Xi · Dec 29, 2009

Annatar said:
And what do you guys think about the KPJ s video mod. my AES has this mod and i use it with a Sony Wega, never had the chance to make any comparisons with other video mods, can you tell me something?

If it's the old mega mod s-video circuit then some components need to be removed to get a better clearer picture.

Here is the same s-video circuit with the same encoder but on a Genesis. You get the same color display on the Neo with the extra components.

Old S-video:

New S-video:

All you need to do is remove the Chroma amp and replace it with a 220uf cap and 75 ohm resistor, you don't need an amp for the Chroma signal.

FairlanePhantom · Dec 29, 2009

Is it better to use that setup? I did S-video on a Genesis 3 just straight off the system, and it gave accurate colors.

Xian Xi · Dec 29, 2009

FairlanePhantom said:
Is it better to use that setup? I did S-video on a Genesis 3 just straight off the system, and it gave accurate colors.

The genesis 3 has a different encoder and you need to build a small circuit for the s-video to work from what I remember. The Genesis 1 and the Neo AES both have the same encoder and AV port pinout.

RGB32e · Dec 29, 2009

Xian Xi said:
The genesis 3 has a different encoder and you need to build a small circuit for the s-video to work from what I remember. The Genesis 1 and the Neo AES both have the same encoder and AV port pinout.

I've performed the S-video mod on my Genesis 3. All that is required is the RC pair (75ohm->220uF) on the Y/C outputs of the Sony CXA RGB encoder.

Easy mod.

Addition:
While I haven't used the JROK or NEOBITZ combo encoders, I will say that with the Kramer FC-14 (RGB to Component), the conversion is virtually lossless - regardless of RGB source and without the need for any sync cleaning (with the exception of the Genesis systems). I used to own a CSY-2100 (RGB to Component). This converter doesn't do a very good job of RGB to component conversion... it bleeds red, just like S-video, but the overall picture is still better than S-Video.

It sounds like the RGB to component conversion on the JROK and NB isn't very good, and depending upon the TV, the decoding of component might be awful. I've used a few TVs with component inputs that "appear" to encode component into S-Video or composite before decoding back to RGB... That might explain why component doesn't look any better than s-video on some peoples TVs!

So, component IS superior to s-video in all ways. Unfortunately in practice, RGB to Component conversion and component to RGB decoding CAN be sub-par depending upon the devices involved.

Finch · Dec 30, 2009

I did this mod to my genesis with the Jamma nation X Kit and WOW, what a difference.

I don't have an AES so I'm not sure how it looks on those but it makes the genesis look so much better.

This was part of my reason for asking about this. S-video looks a bit too bright on my CMVS, but it looks sharp, and S-Video looks amazing on the Genesis. Sounds like Component is way better on a HD source, or something that's outputting more than 320x240, but for low res consoles its probably good enough.

Does anyone have comparison shots for a CMVS?

Xian Xi said:
If it's the old mega mod s-video circuit then some components need to be removed to get a better clearer picture.

Here is the same s-video circuit with the same encoder but on a Genesis. You get the same color display on the Neo with the extra components.

Old S-video:

New S-video:

All you need to do is remove the Chroma amp and replace it with a 220uf cap and 75 ohm resistor, you don't need an amp for the Chroma signal.

CMVS Component vs S-video

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