Some food for thought regarding Iran.

Fighter17 said:

Shut up.

We went to Lebanon because Syria and the PLO wanted to killed the Israel's ambassador to the UK. Also because the PLO were planning attacks to Israeli people (and already doing it).

Iran already did enough bullshit in Lebanon last year. Israel killed soldiers who were actually part of the Iranian armed forces. Also the IDF found Iranian weapons in Lebanon (and in Iraq).

Iran is asking for war, and some of the Muslium counties (like Saudi Arabia) don't even like Iran.

We invaded Lebanon for a reason in the 80s and last year.

About Palestine: Well I'm not part of the group of people who teach their kids to kill themselfs to god.

Look, I know you want to kill all the Jews. Your comment doesn't suprise me.



Iran is bullshit.

They're asking for war.

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You're out of line. You shouldn't accuse Wasabi of wanting to kill Jews. That's absurd.

I'm pro-Israel, but unfortunately the situation is not as simple as you might think. Israel has some dirt on it's hands. The fact of the matter is that Muslim extremeists want Israel off the map, and many Iranians share that opinion. What complicates things is that the Jews are hated across the Middle East, and they must respond every time their country is under attack. They did win the territory in a war, so it does belong to them. And the other fact is that during the Clinton years, Israel offered everything that Arafat and the PLO wanted, and the PLO wouldn't accept it. The PLO wanted no state of Israel. Unfortunately, I believe that in the end, it's the Arabs stopping the peace process. I think the Israelis could live with the Palestinians, but I'm not sure the Palestinians who elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, to run their government wants to live with the Israelis. Actions speak louder than words, and the Arabs actions have shown no desire for peace. But if the Israelis want this to end peacefully instead of a regional war, they are going to have to reach out and hope that the Arabs respond.

What I fail to understand is why, other than stupid religious hatred, the Arabs even want Israel. They actually have all the land in the middle east that's actually worth something with all of that fucking oil.

Also, you said that Iran shouldn't be part of the UN. Why the hell not? We Americans certainly like to invade other countries and we're a prominent member.

MUSOLINI said:

israel is a fucking terrorist country. they pretty much invented the shit. only reason israel can do what it has been doing for years is cause of the fucking jews in the US. the only ally the jews always had is the US. simply because most leading firms & businesses in the US are run by the jews. every time the UN condemns israels shit the US backs it up so they can keep on avoiding sanctions. i dont know who's dirtier, the US or the jews.

p.s. napoleon was a great fucking liar. he became king by saying he defeated the turks while he got beat instead and took of to Egypt. simply by bringing treasures from egypt he was able to convince the people he beat them and actually became king. now thats how you get in power. at least back in those days.

also fighter 17, you do know israel wouldve been long fucked good night if the US didnt back your shit up right?

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Please tell me about the 7 jew bankers who live in a vault and control the world's money supply. I'd like to hear about it, because I haven't gotten any jew gold yet.

Your conspiracy theories destroy the credibility of any opinion you might have.

wasabi said:

Wow man. Israel leveled Beirut after all the work the Lebanese did to rebuild it and you say the Israelis were right to do it? And you think the Lebanese government and the people had anything to do with the captured soldiers? Where did those soldiers get captured? Palestine. The Israeli invasion of Lebanon for the kidnapped soldiers was as righteous as the US invasion of Iraq for 9/11.

This has nothing to do with Anti-Semite either. Iran is still home to one of the worlds largest population of Jews. It's about not fucking with people, not fucking with their lives, and admitting when you've done bad. This is an losing issue for Israel, and much of the US Republican party. They are incapable of dealing with people in a justiciable way.

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25,000 Jews in Iran and that's it.

Habib Elghanian (the leader of the Jewish community in 1979) was arrested and killed by the government for "contacts with Zionism."

Most Jews left Iran in 1978 because of the government takeover.

Also funny because most Jews in Iran don't support Israel at all.

DangerousK said:

The Iranian Revolution didn't have the same dynamics.

In addition, eighteenth century France experienced the Enlightenment as well as the influence of thought by Jean Jacques Rosseau and Voltaire. Iran has never experienced a period of "enlightenment" that Western Civilization has with the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. The type of truly revolutionary thought that existed in France in the eighteenth century and Italy in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries still has not happened.

To truly experience a revolution in Iran, I think the people there must experience a period of enlightenment to open their eyes, and begin to openly question their government as it exists and the Muslim religion. I think that is essential, the questioning of religion and a shift towards more pagan beliefs.

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Wow... you really don't know jack shit about Iran.

Iran's enlightenment can be found in mathematics, poetry, art, architecture, and medicine.

The problem is that the government has shifted back into the stone age. The people have not.

Don't equate the government with the people.

IMTheWalrus said:

Also, you said that Iran shouldn't be part of the UN. Why the hell not? We Americans certainly like to invade other countries and we're a prominent member.

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Iran is not a true democracy with a history of breaking human rights laws.

That could be the same thing to the US, but Americans don't want to "wipe out" one country off the map.

wasabi said:

Wow... you really don't know jack shit about Iran.

Iran's enlightenment can be found in mathematics, poetry, art, architecture, and medicine.

The problem is that the government has shifted back into the stone age. The people have not.

Don't equate the government with the people.

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That's why it's good to only talk about the government.

Some people in Iran don't want to mess with Israel.

MUSOLINI said:

nah, wish i was. even got 2 jewish friends but they hate israel and its government (with a passion) and what its doing even more than me. but yes i don't like isaelis, especially the fuck ups leading the US and israel. maybe if they ever got a normal government and were actually for peace instead of war and continuously abusing their fellow men, and actually tried to resolve the problems in its entirety then maybe, just very maybe i could see them as more human. maybe.

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The assumption of Jew power in the US government is about as anti-semitic as it comes, as is Spoov's post about about the Israelis being Nazi's. I have Israeli family members, and they are hardly Nazi's. They don't even hate Palestinians. They are able to separate the Palestinian people from the assholes who represent them in government. I hope someone doesn't equate me with the people running my government.

As I said earlier, the Israeli's offered Arafat everything they wanted, and they turned it down.

Fighter17 said:

Iran is not a true democracy with a history of breaking human rights laws.

That could be the same thing to the US, but Americans don't want to "wipe out" one country off the map.



That's why it's good to only talk about the government.

Some people in Iran don't want to mess with Israel.

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Your point is still moot. There are plenty of non-democracies in the UN.

MUSOLINI said:

nah, wish i was. even got 2 jewish friends but they hate israel and its government (with a passion) and what its doing even more than me. but yes i don't like isaelis, especially the fuck ups leading the US and israel. maybe if they ever got a normal government and were actually for peace instead of war and continuously abusing their fellow men, and actually tried to resolve the problems in its entirety then maybe, just very maybe i could see them as more human. maybe.

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So if we were getting attacked by Arab Nations (like we did many times before and won), would you want Israel to fight back?

Look people, I been to Israel before and yes I've been thru the West Bank before. One lunch counter I saw both Jews and Arabs eating on the same table and having a good time.

IMTheWalrus said:

Your point is still moot. There are plenty of non-democracies in the UN.

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And that's why to me the UN is a joke to the whole world. Want to bring peace to the world when many nations with the UN are not even full democracies?

IMTheWalrus said:

As I said earlier, the Israeli's offered Arafat everything they wanted, and they turned it down.

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And that's why Ehud Barak got kicked out of the PM seat so quickly.

Fighter17 said:

25,000 Jews in Iran and that's it.

Habib Elghanian (the leader of the Jewish community in 1979) was arrested and killed by the government for "contacts with Zionism."

Most Jews left Iran in 1978 because of the government takeover.

Also funny because most Jews in Iran don't support Israel at all.

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Funnier that I know his Daughter and grandson.

Fighter17 said:

And that's why to me the UN is a joke to the whole world. Want to bring peace to the world when many nations with the UN are not even full democracies?

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LMAO. Guess what - hardly any countries are Democracies. Being a democracy doesn't mean being able to work together with other nations to ensure peace. Being benevolent and justiciable does.

wasabi said:

Funnier that I know his Daughter and grandson.

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That was funny.

Well you got to hate governments sometimes.

Trouble is that a lot of people don't see Israel as a legitimate state, more like the questionable end to the heated debate that dominated the years between 1945 and 48 - where to put all the de-rooted and homeless Jews?

And no Fighter17, I would not want the Israelis to fight back, just like the Palestinians should put and end to all the hate and violence.

They're all the same down there, endless bloodshed and what for? A damn stripe of desert land. That's nothing but batshit insane if you ask me.

NeoSneth said:

i don't think it's is out of the realm of possibility, that glass factories may be opening up in the middle east....in our lifetime.

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I wonder if Merc is creaming in his pants while reading this post?

Takumaji said:

Trouble is that a lot of people don't see Israel as a legitimate state, more like the questionable end to the heated debate that dominated the years between 1945 and 48 - where to put all the de-rooted and homeless Jews?

And no Fighter17, I would not want the Israelis to fight back, just like the Palestinians should put and end to all the hate and violence.

They're all the same down there, endless bloodshed and what for? A damn stripe of desert land. That's nothing but batshit insane if you ask me.

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So you want all the Israelis to die if an buch of Arab Nations were attacking it?

What about if America was under attack (or even Germany)? Would you let those nations defend themselfs?

Fighter17 said:

So you want all the Israelis to die if an buch of Arab Nations were attacking it?

What about if America was under attack (or even Germany)? Would you let those nations defend themselfs?

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No, I think everyone wants the Israelis and the Arab governments to stop fighting altogether.

DangerousK said:

Do not equate a government with the people it governs.

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"I'm not talking about jewish individuals here, but as a political entity...."

DangerousK said:

It's amazing how dense some people here are.

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Indeed.

....
Listen man, you're a smart guy...if you want to zero in on things like this without adressing any pertinent points...then thats ok. I do it all the time. I'm probably doing it right now.

Anyway,

GETTING BACK TO THE POINT, I am saying that the Israelis need to stop playing the victim. Do you disagree? Look no further than your keyboard when you rushed in to defend them...

Iran is no threat to Israel. Iran belongs to the Iranians; they can deny the holocaust or draw as many goofy anti-semetic cartoons as they want....it's nobody elses business but theirs. Hardly a threat though...

You have suspected low level nuclear capability vs. what, the combined arsenal of America, Britain and Israel? Man, fuck off with that shit....

When you invade a relatively defenseless country like Iran, you're not neutralizing a threat, you are conquering a sovereign nation (like Germany vs. Poland).

Sp0o/\/?! said:

"I'm not talking about jewish individuals here, but as a political entity...."



Indeed.

....
Listen man, you're a smart guy...if you want to zero in on things like this without adressing any pertinent points...then thats ok. I do it all the time. I'm probably doing it right now.

Anyway,

GETTING BACK TO THE POINT, I am saying that the Israelis need to stop playing the victim. Do you disagree? Look no further than your keyboard when you rushed in to defend them...

Iran is no threat to Israel. Iran belongs to the Iranians; they can deny the holocaust or draw as many goofy anti-semetic cartoons as they want....it's nobody elses business but theirs. Hardly a threat though...

You have suspected low level nuclear capability vs. what, the combined arsenal of America, Britain and Israel? Man, fuck off with that shit....

When you invade a relatively defenseless country like Iran, you're not neutralizing a threat, you are conquering a sovereign nation (like Germany vs. Poland).

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You are 100% wrong about Iran not being a threat to Israel with their possible nuclear capability.

It's not about military strength of Iran. If they can get a nuclear weapon together, it could fall into the hands of Hezbollah who has strong ties to some in the Iranian government. Then they could smuggle a dirty bomb into Israel. So there's definitely a threat, and it definitely needs to be dealt with. The answer is political though, and not military.

Iran isn't defenseless either. They have a real military.

To Fighter17...

Who the hell is WE???

Your an american who won't even Join the IDF...

IMTheWalrus said:

....as is Spoov's post about about the Israelis being Nazi's.

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And I feel bad saying that. I really do. I got nothing against you or your family and from what I gather you're a pretty level headed individual on these forums.

But I'm not gonna lie, I say these things with the intent to hurt. It pisses me off that Israel, America and Britain are pushing for a repeat of whats happening in Iraq right now.

They will go to war with Iran whether they have nukes or not...you might see things from a totally different perspective, but I won't pussyfoot around when giving you my perspective.

Again, I have nothing against jews as a people, as a culture, or as a religion, but if not agreeing with Israels* conduct makes me an anti-semite...well...I'm sorry to hear it.



*America and Britain as well

Fighter17 said:

So you want all the Israelis to die if an buch of Arab Nations were attacking it?

What about if America was under attack (or even Germany)? Would you let those nations defend themselfs?

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See, there comes a time when eye-for-an-eye-tooth-for-a-thooth only leads to genocide or the complete destruction of a nation in one way or another.

Just read the stuff you posted in this thread, you demand the Palestinians to acknowledge and respect Israel but then accuse the "Arabs" as you've put it for being blood-thirsty Muslim robots whom the Israelis have every right to invade or attack as they please.... well, last time I checked, there was a difference between defending yourself and pro-actively invading neighbor countries, not to mention that government-funded illegal settler problem which is nothing but some sort of cold war against a hated enemy.

I don't know man, this war will probably go on forever if people don't wake up one day and give the middle finger to all those militarist politicians, religious leaders, terror bombers, bible thumpers, friends and fans of the Sharia, the Quoran or the Talmud and tell them straight to their faces: Go fuck yourself guys, we're fed up with your hate, fascist religious laws and aggression, pack up yer guns, flaming propaganda speeches and holy books and drown yourself in the Mediterranean Sea.

Sp0o/\/?! said:

And I feel bad saying that. I really do. I got nothing against you or your family and from what I gather you're a pretty level headed individual on these forums.

But I'm not gonna lie, I say these things with the intent to hurt. It pisses me off that Israel, America and Britain are pushing for a repeat of whats happening in Iraq right now.

They will go to war with Iran whether they have nukes or not...you might see things from a totally different perspective, but I won't pussyfoot around when giving you my perspective.

Again, I have nothing against jews as a people, as a culture, or as a religion, but if not agreeing with Israels* conduct makes me an anti-semite...well...I'm sorry to hear it.



*America and Britain as well

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That's fine, but Nazi's? There's definitely a connotation that goes along with it.

If we invade Iran, you can blame Bush. It would be entirely because of his oil war in Iraq. He's the one who destabilized the region. Israel may be supporting it because of those scuds that hit them during Desert Storm, but it's Bush's war.

The overall situation depresses me to tell you the truth. That humans, who have progressed so far technologically and in some ways culturally, can be so engrained with this religious, tribal bullshit that causes tons of hatred and violence across the world is absurd.

If Iran is so bad, then why did we remove It's two biggest enemies, for free?

norton9478 said:

To Fighter17...

Who the hell is WE???

Your an american who won't even Join the IDF...

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Now I would, but I hate Olmert's government a lot.

Also I'm a weak SOB and how the hell I'm going to kill anyone when my arms are like sticks?

Plus being a flatfooter will make it harder for you to run away.

Fighter17 said:

Now I would, but I hate Olmert's government a lot.

Also I'm a weak SOB and how the hell I'm going to kill anyone when my arms are like sticks?

Plus being a flatfooter will make it harder for you to run away.

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you can still go and volenteer in a non combat role...

There are Arabs who do more for Isreal than you.

IMTheWalrus said:

That's fine, but Nazi's? There's definitely a connotation that goes along with it.

If we invade Iran, you can blame Bush. It would be entirely because of his oil war in Iraq. He's the one who destabilized the region. Israel may be supporting it because of those scuds that hit them during Desert Storm, but it's Bush's war.

The overall situation depresses me to tell you the truth. That humans, who have progressed so far technologically and in some ways culturally, can be so engrained with this religious, tribal bullshit that causes tons of hatred and violence across the world is absurd.

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The US is not destabilizing Iran for religious, tribal bullshit. By destabilizing Iran they can ensure that it won't be able to conflict with US long term economic interests in the Middle East. Remember that in the 20th century, up until the Shah of Iran pissed off Carter by refusing to commit fraud against his own people, Iran was the US's Israel. After that, Israel became America's new little pet.