Problems with sound in a PGM board

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Amano Jacu

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I just got a PGM board, and I used it with my usual supergun. Graphics were OK, but I couldn't listen anything. All the boards I have tried in that supergun has worked OK so far, with the exception of the MGCD, which didn't have sound, either (but it had it in a cab I tried it into). My supergun has a mono/stereo switch but it didn't work either way. I have sound connected in the DIP switches too.

I also tried it with a VHSgun made by supergoose79, and this time the sound worked, but quite weak (had to turn the mobo volume to maximum, and still increase the volume level of my speakers). In adition, it doesn't seem "right" to me, I don't know how to explain it, either the PGM sound sucks or there's something wrong.

Has anybody experienced this? Any help? Thanks.

EDIT: I "do" get sound from the first supergun too, but so weak that I have to tune the volume to the max, so the sound can be barely heard as there's a big interference noise too.
 
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S

sonofx51

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nope, on my board if I put the mobo volume to max, it is ridiculously loud. I leave it at about half way.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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According to the PGM manual scan I found, the sound is wired like this:

SPEAKER GND: 10 solder side
SPEAKER +: 10 parts side

While both pins 11 are empty. I think the JAMMA standar is diiferent and uses pins 11 too. Can this be related?
 
MKL

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It's OK, Jamma doesn't use Pin 11/M for sound. L is actually a ground? (doubtful)
 
A

Amano Jacu

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I just checked it and L is actually a ground in the PGM board (a continuity test between it and pin 1 was positive).

UPDATE: I tried it with my old supergun (from ravengames), that has a switch for sound (not sure what exactly is for), and with this switch in a position I didn't get any sound, but in the other position I got perfect sound without having to put the volume to the maximum, much better than the sound I got from the VHSgun.

So it has something to do with the sound wiring of the superguns...
 
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A

Amano Jacu

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Anybody? If you want I can try to figure out how is exactly wired the sound in the supergun that works OK...
 
Dean

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I wanted to bump this up because I think I know the problem. -5V

Amano, did you're older supergun have -5V? I'm pretty sure the VHSgun uses a SC200, yes?
 
sven666

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D-Lite said:
I wanted to bump this up because I think I know the problem. -5V

Amano, did you're older supergun have -5V? I'm pretty sure the VHSgun uses a SC200, yes?
Click to expand...

youre proboably right there, same problem as when trying to get sound out of a CPS2 from a standard jamma connector.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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D-Lite said:
I wanted to bump this up because I think I know the problem. -5V

Amano, did you're older supergun have -5V? I'm pretty sure the VHSgun uses a SC200, yes?
Click to expand...

I have 3 superguns, the newer "Supergun II" from Hong Kong, the VHSgun from Supergoose and a very old one from Ravengames.

The VHSgun actually uses a PC AT psu, but yes, it only gets +5V and +12V.

However, my newest supergun is supposed to have -5V, and yet I didn't get sound from it. My oldest one does have -5V as well, and as I said sound worked on it, but only if a switch connected to sound was in a determined position.

I'll see if I can do some more tests later.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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sven666 said:
youre proboably right there, same problem as when trying to get sound out of a CPS2 from a standard jamma connector.
Click to expand...

If I remember well I got mono sound from the JAMMA connector of a CPS2 when using the VHSgun, that is without -5V.
 
DaemoN

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I dont know if this is going to be of any help...

all my cabs are wired for JAMMA... CPS2, NeoGeo (on mono) and IGS PGM all work fine, just plug and play. Nice and clear sound, pretty loud.

Some boards need -5v for the op amps (like Pit Fighter), but I'm not sure if the IGS PGM Mainboard requires this voltage to work.
 
sven666

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Amano Jacu said:
If I remember well I got mono sound from the JAMMA connector of a CPS2 when using the VHSgun, that is without -5V.
Click to expand...

yes youll always get mono unless you use the special stereo ports i think.

some CPS2 games seem to work without the -5V whilist some dont, D&D games, dimahoo and armoured warriors are games i simply cant get to work properly with my supergun (doesnt have -5V) tho they work perfectly in my cab..
 
DaemoN

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Oh yeah, what sven666 said...

perhaps your board has a blown amp!
 
chris1

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Just noting...

I don't have -5V wired up in my Candy cab..but the PGM mobo works fine without it.
I do have to swicth the speaker wiring for a mono set up though..All I do it put the Pos Speaker,two wires to one speaker.(creating mono)taking off the ground wires.

The first time I put the PGM in the Candy Cab to play to play Demon Front with a friend it was LOUD..Too Loud but not ridiculous..
I didn't know how to lower the volume yet and I was worried I was going to pop the cabs speakers.

Make sure the Mobo's edge connector is very clean..
 
Dean

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chris1 said:
Just noting...

I don't have -5V wired up in my Candy cab..but the PGM mobo works fine without it.
I do have to swicth the speaker wiring for a mono set up though..All I do it put the Pos Speaker,two wires to one speaker.(creating mono)taking off the ground wires.

The first time I put the PGM in the Candy Cab to play to play Demon Front with a friend it was LOUD..Too Loud but not ridiculous..
I didn't know how to lower the volume yet and I was worried I was going to pop the cabs speakers.

Make sure the Mobo's edge connector is very clean..
Click to expand...
Maybe it's amps on the 5 or 12 then. When I power it with a Jameco/Ault SC200, no sound. 4A on +5, 1A on 12. On an arcade PSU with 15 A on +5 and I believe 3A on 12V, but also including -5V, then it works perfectly.

:confused:
 
norton9478

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Shot in the dark...

Are all pins on the +5 and +12 rails of the PGB motherboard connected?
 
A

Arcader

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D-Lite said:
Maybe it's amps on the 5 or 12 then. When I power it with a Jameco/Ault SC200, no sound. 4A on +5, 1A on 12. On an arcade PSU with 15 A on +5 and I believe 3A on 12V, but also including -5V, then it works perfectly.

:confused:
Click to expand...


I think thats correct becuz your component gun doesnt have sound for PGM but my other 2 guns works perfectly (Raven Games MKII and Supernova) as they have an arcade PSU.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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I just checked a PGM manual I downloaded, and on the JAMMA connector pin-out only +5 and +12V are featured, it says nothing on pin 5 that should be -5V.
So I would discard -5V as the source of my sound problem.

Sound is on pin 10 (parts) speaker+, pin L (10 solder) speaker ground.

I'll have a look at my older supergun sound wiring now.

OK, here's what I found:

The switch has 3 cables, the central one goes to the scart connector (pins 2 and 6 at the same time, which are audio right and left). The other 2 cables go to pins L and 10 of the JAMMA harness. The switch has 2 position and it just changes which of these other 2 cables is connected to the central one. The PGM sound works when the switch is on the position such that it's pin 10 (parts) the one that gets connected to the central pin and therefore to the scart.

I now checked the newer HK supergun and as I expected, pins 2&6 of the scart are connected to pin L (solder) of the JAMMA harness.

So in my opinion the problem is that you must use pin 10 for sound in order to have the PGM working. Dean, can you check my theory?
 
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Dean

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Amano Jacu said:
I just checked a PGM manual I downloaded, and on the JAMMA connector pin-out only +5 and +12V are featured, it says nothing on pin 5 that should be -5V.
So I would discard -5V as the source of my sound problem.

Sound is on pin 10 (parts) speaker+, pin L (10 solder) speaker ground.

I'll have a look at my older supergun sound wiring now.

OK, here's what I found:

The switch has 3 cables, the central one goes to the scart connector (pins 2 and 6 at the same time, which are audio right and left). The other 2 cables go to pins L and 10 of the JAMMA harness. The switch has 2 position and it just changes which of these other 2 cables is connected to the central one. The PGM sound works when the switch is on the position such that it's pin 10 (parts) the one that gets connected to the central pin and therefore to the scart.
Click to expand...
That seems odd. I can see it to one side, but the L side is ground. Why would you ground the audio line on the SCART connection???

Dani, what's the output of the power source? In terms of amps.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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D-Lite said:
That seems odd. I can see it to one side, but the L side is ground. Why would you ground the audio line on the SCART connection???

Dani, what's the output of the power source? In terms of amps.
Click to expand...

Check the last edit on my post.

About amps, the old supergun has these maximum: 15A on 5V and 2.5A in 12V.
The new HK supergun's psu doesn't have the maximum intensity written, sorry. Do you want me to measure the actual intensity taken by the PGM on both superguns?
 
Dean

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Amano Jacu said:
Check the last edit on my post.

About amps, the old supergun has these maximum: 15A on 5V and 2.5A in 12V.
The new HK supergun's psu doesn't have the maximum intensity written, sorry. Do you want me to measure the actual intensity taken by the PGM on both superguns?
Click to expand...
That would be fantastic. I'm curious if there's just not enough juice on the system to power it.

This is all very odd.

I have pin 10 hooked up through the stereo/mono switch and it's also attenuated, but that shouldn't matter since I used the exact same setup with switch and attenuation on the other supergun that works fine.

The only difference is the amperage.
 
MKL

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Are you people sure Jamma L on the PGM is a ground? I don't have this system but on all the other ones I tested (MVS, CPS1, CPS2, etc.) Jamma L is never ground, which means that with a supergun setup you're not supposed to use this pin unless the supergun has a built-in speaker.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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D-Lite said:
That would be fantastic. I'm curious if there's just not enough juice on the system to power it.

This is all very odd.

I have pin 10 hooked up through the stereo/mono switch and it's also attenuated, but that shouldn't matter since I used the exact same setup with switch and attenuation on the other supergun that works fine.

The only difference is the amperage.
Click to expand...

Noob question: how do I measure intensity? I have a cheap multimeter with three holes for the 2 pins, labelled 10ADC, COM, V omega mA

MKL said:
Are you people sure Jamma L on the PGM is a ground? I don't have this system but on all the other ones I tested (MVS, CPS1, CPS2, etc.) Jamma L is never ground, which means that with a supergun setup you're not supposed to use this pin unless the supergun has a built-in speaker.
Click to expand...

Here's the pin-out of the PGM from the manual:

pinout.jpg


As I said, a continuity test between pins 1 and L was positive, so they are supposed to be both ground.
 
Dean

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Amano Jacu said:
Noob question: how do I measure intensity? I have a cheap multimeter with three holes for the 2 pins, labelled 10ADC, COM, V omega mA
Click to expand...
Not sure with yours, but you need to have it in series for sure when you test current. I worry your multimete might blow (is it fused?) at 15 A, so I'd not test it if I were you.
 
A

Amano Jacu

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Well, it says "10A max unfused" so yeah, I might blow it if the PGM draws more than 10A, which I doubt anyway...
The old supergun has a standar small arcade psu, while the newer supergun has a similar arcade one but smaller, and there's no label about Amperage...
Anyway the PC AT psu I used with the VHS gun has 20A in the 5V line and 8A in the 12V, and yet sound didn't work in the PGM.
 
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