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Well, this in no way excuses what our soldiers did to Iraqi POW's, but it just goes to show that they could've done worse things, such as ....
Inquiry shows GI was executed by Iraqis
Not that non-oblivious people need further proof of the attrocities committed by Saddam's army - but just in case.
Lame way to show vengenace.
All said. :shame:
This was done long before the US prisoner abuse scandal, if that's what you're referring to - I think it was just a case of them being themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrophyed
oh well...
My cawk > yuor Cawk.
Post Count +1
galfordo cawk >>> spammer cawk :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:
I agree.
humiliating hezbollai prisoners is never a bad thing.
we should round up all hezbollai and their families and gas them.
and for those of you that don't know what a hezbollai is, the hezbolla is that group of vigilante muslim extremists that you often call terrorists out thar in the west.
You sir, are an asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daklighterx
But still, us Americans must mourn over the tragic abuse of the innocent POW's in Abu Gharib... :loco:
of course, I dont condone abuse on anyone, but damn, the U.S. Mediam plays it like WERE the terrorists, no?
Those people aren't billing themselves as a moral compass.
I thought that much was obvious to galfordo so I didn't feel it was worth mentioning, but kudos to lithy for pointing out the reason there was much outrage over the torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
Morality is relative, like anything else, and relative to them - we're still light years ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
In every war, the US was in, the US soldiers abused and executed people for no reason, so the US soldiers are no better than the terrorists. I just think that we're fighting for a lost cause, because there's a such a culture difference between US and Iraq, so, there's no way our type of gov't will work over in Iraq. The Iraqis are happy that Saddam's out, but, they want the US to get the fuck out as well.
First off, I hope you mean ONLY some select U.S. Solidiers when you say that. Generalizing all U.S. Soldiers as equals of terrorists would be complete disrespect and utter stupidity. Secondly, yes, there are some Soldiers, even U.S ones who kill innocent people sometimes. But If we all talk about whats really on our minds, and what the liberals are really upset about, the prisoners of abu gharib. There not just prisoners, there terrorists, killers, and haters. I myself would not abuse, nor kill a confined terrorist, but I do understand a soldier, and how hard it might be sometimes to look a terrorist, a killer in the eye, and not feel an urge to humiliate them, just knowing that the judicial system we have today will pity the terrorists because of "horrible prison conditions" or whatnot. Note, I dont condone the activities, and yes I condemn them, but jeez, now AMERICA's the enemy, at least according to DAN RATHER AND CNN!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedite
Yes, yes, and this somehow vindicates us of human rights violations...After all, as long as we're better than Saddam it's all ok!Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
:rolleyes:
But, I mean abuse to people in war has existed since the human race. I'm not saying all the US soldiers are abusers. But, they're soliders that just abuse innocent people in war for revenge or just for pleasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose
We are an invading force, nitwit. We = ENEMY in Iraq. You don't think they would kill our men? It's war. I feel sorry for that man's family, their son should still be alive. Blame your favorite pres for that man's death, not Saddam.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
They didn't just kill him, they executed him after taking him prisoner, dipshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiShodownSensei
Is it possible that you could even read the sentences that you quoted? If you had, you'd know that I said "Well, this in no way excuses what our soldiers did to Iraqi POW's". How much more clear can I make it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrek
And since when did most countries observe the geneva convention. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
Since never, in an absolute sense. But some countries pay a lot more attention to it than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiShodownSensei
"Abuse is bad, but murder is worse"Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
You have clearly made a comparison between an action our troops have taken, and an action taken by the Iraqis, fucktard. You were crystal clear. Read what you type.
Yeah, I did make a comparison obviously, but that wasn't what this argument was predicated on. You said that I had excused the actions of our troops, when I had made no such comment. Try reading it one more time ....Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrek
galfordo, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but don't think it has escaped the attention of most members on this board that you started this thread as a distraction from the criticism that you perceive your good man Bush 43 is receiving. The abuse is abhorent for a few reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
First, the U.S. is there to bring a democracy but yet such morally repugnant torture was conducted. It is not even remotely excusable that this was the act of a few soldiers, because command has a responsibility to train competent, honorable, rule-abiding soldiers. They should satisfy the qualifications required for running a prison. And as pending investigation unfolds it's becoming increasingly suggestive of a systemic problem, even suggestive of command orders to 'set favorable interrogation conditions.'
Second, the US internment in Abu Ghraib has produced very little substantive intelligence of value according to reports. Now they are under pressure to release these imprisoned Iraqis because they have been held in the prison for an indefinite period merely for being Iraqi and being 'suspicious.' Do you think for a second that it would have been ok to hold someone in America for being 'suspicious' and being Muslim? Although there are also Iraqi Americans that are being imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay for those very reasons.
Third, these abuses have produced stress, unfavorable conditions that placed undue duress on the prisoners that have health conditions; some of these abuses did involve serious, hard physical punches, body slams. And more than a few have died under abuse, as I'm sure you have seen the photos of England, Graner grinning over the corpses packed in ice. That's murder matey.
Your only pathetic defense is hiding behind your disclaimer that 'this in no way excuses what our soldiers did to Iraqi POW's' for 'they could've done worse things.'
Can you find it morally defensible to defend a child pedophile's sexual molestation to say 'it could have been worse, he could have pulled a Jeffrey Dahmer?'
Mmm, I love these insightful threads.
"Abuse bad, murder worse"
I shall ponder that throughout the day..
I started this thread to point out the hypocrisy of most of the left wing members here - not to praise Bush. It just strikes me as odd that people are humanitarians only when it illustrates some political point that they're trying to make. When someone gets murdered, they apparently couldn't care less because it doesn't allow them to saw "see, I told you so". I'm not defending what our soldiers did, as I've said probably ten times in this thread alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by bokmeow
Just tell me this, why the selective humanitarianism?
It's a simple point, but it's apparently subtle enough that most people here can't seem to grasp. All I ask is that the people admit that the Iraqi army's actions are worse than those of our soldiers (i.e. murder is worse than sexual humiliation), but apparently that's too much for the leftist, anti-american morons here to handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefJerky
"OMFG, that might make it seem like I like this country - and that's soooo uncool"
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Ehhh, your posts are too repetitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
Never did I say I didn't like the USA. In fact, I love my country and what it was founded on. At times I dislike how it's being run, but there's not too much I can do about that now can I? You're too uppity.
I wasn't calling you anti-American directly - that's more of a general sentiment I see that pervades these boards. There was a huge outcry about the prison scandal, but people couldn't give two shits about our soldier being executed - I just find that strange .... but apparently I'm alone. Oh well, so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefJerky
What do you mean when you say I'm too uppity? That word refers to financial status - and I think you must've mistaken mine for someone else's.
Uppity=overly arrogant. I just like getting you riled up. It's pretty fun since the forums are kinda slow right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
yeah, you're right, that word does basically refer to arrogance - I always thought it referred to rich people. I guess there's a connection there. Anyway, yeah, the forums are kinda slow. We need MD to seduce another hapless member into a penis pic thingy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefJerky
I got an idea for ya brother move to cambodia and clone polpot .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedite
Yes somtimes people snap after seeing all there buddies get picked off and they respond by shooting some innocent old lady or a little kid .
No body said war was pretty !
Hell somtimes people snap here in america for no reason and pick off all there fellow employees at the post office for no reason !
whats the matter with you people ?
The man is making a post saying hed rather get jacked off by some ugly little monky lookin girl the get shot in the back of the head and you all want to argue about it .
I'm not saying all US soldiers abused those people, but, sometimes, the soldiers over there treat the civilians like crap. I know it's hard to tell who's a terrorist and who's not. For instance, the Vietnam War, some of our soldiers abused innocent civilians and raped some of their women. I mean this abuse thing is nothing new, it's been going on in every war before, and it'll continue to go on, and every war after. But, I love America, I'm glad to be an American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier76
Well, anything that doesn't help their political ideas is fair game, whether it's ethical or not. And if they can't attack the issue directly, they try to interpret what they think I'm saying, and attack that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier76
Gotta love this argument. Never fails to remind me of South Park
"If you don't like it you can just git out!"
Idiot.
There's some validity to that argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
On one hand, it's perfectly reasonable - and probably beneficial - to be critical of your country. After all, that's how people make it better - by listening to criticism and making helpful suggestions.
However, there is a group of people out there who absolutely hate America, and would love to see it fall, but still choose to live in it for their own selfish reasons. These people can rot, as far as I'm concerned. There's no excuse for that degree of self-serving hypocrisy.
People are killed ont he street every day without outcry. Why are you selective, galfordo?Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
When an Iraqi military does something, I have no say in its actions- I'm an American. When the US army fucks up- I'm an Amercan. I would more than encourage our Iraqi members to vote against Bathists just like our American members should vote against Bush, but somehow it just doesn't make sense to bother... :rolleyes:
And that's not even getting into the fact that we invaded Iraq- Irq didn't invade us. The humanitarian issue is at the forefront of our invasion and justification for that fight. No matter how bad the Bathists might be, they aren't flying the "humanitarian" flag to cover the Iraq war.
Man, I always wanted to drop pennies off the Empire State Building, now that's gone too? THERE IS NO GOD.
If they open up the draft next year and I get drafted I swear I'm throwing a grenade into a school house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
The guy said american soldiers are just as bad as terrorists , a very general statement that hes ammended to and further explianed his position
I'm not selective - I said that the abuse committed by our soldiers was a terrible thing. I don't know what else I have to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrek
As for the people on the street .... well, not everything gets reported, and I can't comment on things that I'm not aware of.
As an American, I'd think you'd show a little sympathy toward the people that fight for your country - but I guess that's not popular or something.Quote:
When an Iraqi military does something, I have no say in its actions- I'm an American. When the US army fucks up- I'm an Amercan. I would more than encourage our Iraqi members to vote against Bathists just like our American members should vote against Bush, but somehow it just doesn't make sense to bother... :rolleyes:
So ... not flying a flag gives you the right to commit atrocities - that's terrific. Admitting that you're a murderer doesn't give you the right to kill.Quote:
And that's not even getting into the fact that we invaded Iraq- Irq didn't invade us. The humanitarian issue is at the forefront of our invasion and justification for that fight. No matter how bad the Bathists might be, they aren't flying the "humanitarian" flag to cover the Iraq war.
I would totally slap every Iraqi on the forehead with my cawk for one of Dubya's clip-on ties.
Your kidding, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiShodownSensei
Seriously, I thought the media was only that retarded.
We can blame Roosevelt for everyone killed in WWII too, right?
And Washington for everyone killed in the Revolutionary war.
And to all those pussies that dont support war...
HAPPY FUCKING MEMORIAL DAY!
If it werent for Presidents like Bush, with some balls, we wouldnt be here today.
Also, just thought this was awesome! (im sure it would make Kerry and/or Gore cry...
If General George Patton were alive and President of the USA, this might be his Fireside Speech:
My fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq's regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days.
It is now time to begin the reckoning. Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria,
Australia, Norway and Poland are some of the countries listed there. The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list.
My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening. Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to
those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely.
The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption. Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France. In the future, together with Congress, I will work to cut taxes and solve some local problems.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations: Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority: You boys work out a peace deal, NOW! Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe
all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
I'm ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France, Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades.
We are retiring from NATO as well. 'BON CHANCE, MES AMIS'. I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles
located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. Pay your tickets tomorrow or watch your
precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world.
I love New York. A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are going to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.
Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I have a couple extra tank and infantry
divisions sitting around. Guess where I'm gonna put 'em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with your oil. Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty--starting now. It is time for
America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying darn tootin'. Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to cut taxes here because we will not be spending on other peoples problems.
To the nations on List 1, a final thought: THANKS GUYS, WE OWE YOU.
To the nations on List 2, a final thought: DROP DEAD.
God bless America. Thank you and good night.
It's all part of the typical self-promoting hypocrisy. When one of our guys gets killed, it's either A) Bush's fault or B) Part of war - i.e. tough luckQuote:
Originally Posted by Moose
But when something happens to an Iraqi POW, it's a terrible atrocity. These people only dole out sympathy when it serves their political interests.
You said it, galfordo. And people wonder why over 95% of veterans support G.W. Bush for 04'. Because theyve been in a war, they know what its like. They know what makes a leader. Damn, todays generation is really a melting pot of Liberal whores.
Hillary for 08'!!!
God save us.
Bush fell for the "What's that on your shirt?" trick.
http://img27.photobucket.com/albums/...rp318-370v.jpg
:emb:
That article or wherever that was pulled from.
The US 'calling out' other corrupt governments is just too funny to me.
Galfordofish Translation: I lack a way to respond to the fact that our government is run by corrupt hypocrites, so I'll point the finger at the Iraqi government. After all, comparing a democratic government to a dictatorship might make us look ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
Some governments are worse than ours, lithy. Much worse. I guess we could just turn a blind eye, like many governments seem content to do ....Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
jethrish translation: I can't think of a way to attack someone's argument directly, so I'll divert the argument and pretend like they said something that I'm capable of refuting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrek
I wasn't comparing governments there, jethrek - that's your imagination working overtime again.
It's always nice to qualify things, make it seem ok when we do it. Well...they're worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
Of course some governments are worse. But you know one of the worst that was in our pocket? Iraq. And one of the worst now that is in our pocket? Iran. It still politics yet when we want to trash other countries it comes down to their morals. Its pretty ridiculous. I heard daily about France's non-support for the Iraq war stemmed from deals they had for oil in Iraq. Well no shit, you don't think we don't go to war in Saudi Arabia for the same reasons?
Bleh, tired, hoping this makes sense.