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Ok, we know that the N-Gage will be on this list but I mean the others.
I'm asking this because I saw an episode of Filter (G4):oh_no:
and when they asked this question a lot of people said "sega systems" or "dreamcast, saturn, 32X". I know, the people they interviewed are mostly mainstream idiots that wouldn't know a failure if they had a flashlight and a map but still, it makes me ask a question--What systems would you consider a failure and why?
Virtual Boy
Tiger game.com
In terms of expected sucess
Sega Dreamcast
Nintendo N64
Atari 5200
For flat out failures
Nintendo Virtual Boy
Atari 7800
Atari Jaguar
Tiger Game.com
Panasonic 3DO
Phillips CD-i
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Add-ons in general have never been sucessful so I'll put the
Sega CD
Sega 32X
Nintendo N64DD
Sony Playstation ;)
Isn't that amazing? the only system that Sega made that might be called a failure was the Saturn and only because it didn't take off in the 'States. Saturn did pretty well in Japan. And the DC did wonderfully but couldn't bridge the gap in cash that was the result of Saturn's nosedive here in the the US. (Not counting stuff like 32x and Sage CD which never pulled their weight either).Quote:
Originally posted by thundr51
. . . and when they asked this question a lot of people said "sega systems" or "dreamcast, saturn, 32X".
As for failed systems, yeah, the game.com came to mind, however the biggest failure to me has always been the 3DO. The arrogance with that release was just mind boggling. An insane price point coupled with the boast of it being the future platform for all set top everything made me laugh even then. Obviously, enough other people were laughing as well because it sold like complete crap from the get go.
Those Phillips Interactive pieces of crap are up there too, but I don't even know if you could call those gaming platforms.
Think we should add the neogeo hyper 64 to the "flatout failures" list. Even though it IS a neat system it failed horribly.
How about the:
Amiga CD32 and Commodore CDTV? I believe they enjoyed a year or two of mild success in Europe, but they were complete and utter failures in the US market.
As much as I hate to say it I knew the NEC PC-FX would end up dead quicker than a speeding bullet. The idea of a game system soley set up to do games that more or less were all ANIME, and the fact that the user base was going to be of only Otakus of it... it was destined to fail. There were some cool games for the system, but sadly only ONE shooter that I'm aware of and mostly games that involved pick your path, or strategy games... that even for Japan, it just didn't sell. The PC-ENGINE was the best thing NEC did, and the PC-FX was a real quick "Yeah man, that's cool." Wish it wasn't so, but it is. Same thing could be said for the BANDAI PLAYDIA... had more games for it... but up against SONY's system it wasn't even a competition.
MD20XX / Storm Rider
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NEC SUPERGRAFX.
There are a total of 6 or 7 games available for it, but for some reason, I refuse to sell mine. It looks cool and the games are all pretty great!
While we're at it, let's not forget VM Labs' NUON platform.
Again, like the Supergrafx, about 7-8 games were actually released for the platform. To be fair, this was a DVD player chipset addition that also played games, but VM Labs touted this as a competitor to the PS2 back in the "Project X" days. Tempest 3000 and Iron Soldier 3 are quite good, but the rest is pretty meh.
I think my brother and I had one of only a few NTSC CD32's back in the day.Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
How about the:
Amiga CD32 and Commodore CDTV? I believe they enjoyed a year or two of mild success in Europe, but they were complete and utter failures in the US market.
It was another case of "lets add-on a spiffy intro to a standard A1200 looking game and stick it on a cd", much like the CDTV was to ECS/OCS software.
'Twas a shame, really.
I'm really not sure if the N64 was a failure.
It was kind of a hot item with Pokemon stadium you know.
Once Gamefaqs had a poll asking what's you favorite game genre.
RPG players consumed something like 60% of the site.
http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1401
That was 30K+ people.
It leads me to ask, even in america, if a system can be successful without excellent RPGs.
Remember, not everyone who votes in the polls are forum users there. So not everyone is an idiot gamer.
Some of the systems listed I have to admit I would have to list as well, but some strike me as odd
Ex:
N64- I wouldn't really say that it's a failure. It managed to last quite a while in the market and lots of great games available. It had at least 2 generations of games. I know lithy put this under certain terms, but I know others that would say it was a flat failure.
-i'm drawing a blank now...
Anyway, what would you guys say qualify's a system as a failure? Low sales, terrible games, price, availability, lifespan, library size?
-edit: posted the same time as E.W. Great minds huh?
Im surprised no one mentioned the Gamate yet. A very unappealing name for a really lousy system. I used to own one of these and they really sucked. If you never heard of it, i cant say im the least bit surprised.
Atari Lynx?
I just sold mine in March.
I had a few games for it and I thought it was a nice a system.
If you looked at as a videogame system, you would appreciate it, especially if you were into Atari arcade games as I was.
But if you looked at as a portable gaming system:
a) too big (even the second version I had was too big)
b) battery usuage killed longevity
c) lack of "real" 3rd party support
Whatever though, I had a great time playing Road Blasters, Stun Runner, Gates of Zendocon, Ninja Gaiden (arcade game), Warbirds, Hard Drivin' (personal fave), Rygar (aracade game), and Blue Lightning.
I guess overall it was more for the arcade gaming fan.
Well,
Saturn was a failure in the US... Japan had great stuff, but the US market really passed it over!
32X... yeah
DC was sort of a failure if you look at it from a system standpoint, it barely lasted the entry of the PS2... Now that was really because a lot of people bootlegged games, and others wanted to wait to see what was next out of the gate from Sony and Nintendo (not to mention MS).
So... I can see where they are coming from. I loved the saturn and the DC, but I admit... they did die premature deaths, which in this market can be seen as a failure.
On the other hand, they were no Game.com or N-Gage... ick!
-Nick
I was actually going to mention that one, but I forgot the name. I do remember the Gamate (there was an ad for the US version of it called the "Power Pro" in the December 1990 issue of GamePro...I may be able to provide a scan of the ad if anyone is interested).Quote:
Originally posted by Gorka
Im surprised no one mentioned the Gamate yet. A very unappealing name for a really lousy system. I used to own one of these and they really sucked. If you never heard of it, i cant say im the least bit surprised.
The Gamate looked similar to the 1st gen GBA and used a larger green/black Dot Matrix Screen, like the original Gameboy of that era. The games themselves were no-name clones of old classics like Breakout, Tank Force, and so forth. I think it was priced at $69.95 which was about $20 less than what the GB sold for at the time. I never saw any in stores.
There was also another system that EGM briefly covered in a Nov or Dec 1991 issue called the Watari Supervision. It was a Gameboy clone with a similar design, except the screen moved for a better viewing angle. This I actually saw in some department stores, believe it or not! It only had a few games, and many were similar to the Gamate's retro classic titles like Breakout, pong, etc. The Supervision's gimmick was the fact that you could buy a special cable that would output the video to a standard TV! Obviously a feature that the Gameboy could have used in the early 1990's. This system came and went rather quickly.
So here's my personal compiled list of obscure system failures:
* WATARI SUPERVISION
* GAMATE / POWER PRO
* NUON
* NEC SUPERGRAFX
* COMMODORE CDTV
* AMIGA CD32
There've been some great suggestions, here's a few more (not necessarily the biggest, but failures none-the-less):
- Turbo Express (great portable TG-16, no one bought it)
- NGPC (utter failure in US)
- JVC's X'Eye (a.k.a. WonderMega in JPN) (licensed hybrid of a Genesis and a Sega CD?)
- Sega Nomad (came out 5 years too late)
- Sega CDX (cool, but no audience)
Wonderswan is getting to be a certified commercial failure, its slice of the market is so teeny and is just holding on by sheer inertia from Bandai's deep pockets.
Is that right? I always thought it did somewhat well in Japan, all things considered. Seeing all those games and hardware revisions may have been somewhat misleading...Quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow
Wonderswan is getting to be a certified commercial failure, its slice of the market is so teeny and is just holding on by sheer inertia from Bandai's deep pockets.
I was personally afraid to list the wonderswan, because despite no US market at all, it seemed to sell rather well, and I didn't know how much money Bandai pumped into the system just to keep it afloat.Quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow
Wonderswan is getting to be a certified commercial failure, its slice of the market is so teeny and is just holding on by sheer inertia from Bandai's deep pockets.
More important, what was the cost benefit ratio for getting all those square games on the system?
Neo Geo. It died so hard that the only people keeping it alive are hardcore fans and collectors.
now, now, I wouldn't call a system that is still being supported by non-homebrew games as a "failure"Quote:
Originally posted by mog
Neo Geo. It died so hard that the only people keeping it alive are hardcore fans and collectors.
I think it's important here to distinguish between systems that were sold with a mass market in mind, and those that came out for different reasons. Yes, making money is the primary motivating factor for any company to release a game system, but there is a big difference in what qualifies as a success or a failure for the parent company. N64, despite outselling the Saturn and the Dreamcast, would have to be viewed as a global failure, since Nintendo definitely saw their market penetration shrink something fierce when competing against the PlayStation (and viewed against the all-out global success of the SuperFami/SNES).
Dreamcast was a success as far as engineering and user satisfaction, it just withered on the vine thanks to negative image of Sega because of past failures (and subsequent PS2 worship by third-party developers).
As far as it's peers, nothing comes close to matching the success of Nintendo's GameBoy. It's no surprise that Sony is marshalling their resources to put a dent in a market that Nintendo has owned lock, stock and barrel for so long.
XBox may well end up being a failure for Microsoft. Having your best third party company (Sega) backing out of bringing major releases and having ZERO market penetration in Japan is definitely a bad sign. This system is still a giant welfare project for the company...still dumping tons of money into trying to make it a success. Given how dependent this industry is on Japanese originated content, you have to question how successful any hardware maker can be with no major support from the big Japanese third-party company.
The Gibson.Quote:
Originally posted by thundr51
What systems would you consider a failure and why?
That system was hacked so fucking fast and thoroughly its absurd. Total failure.
How could nobody mention the system that failed before it ever got off the ground... the M2?
It was to be the successor to the 3DO, and it seemed to look pretty impressive from what I saw (I believe that either D or D2 was originally slated for this system). But I think the system wound up having some of its ideas incorporated into DVD players...
Also, the Lynx could have been so much more, if it weren't for Atari's general-and-yet-not-quite-so-drastic incompetence. (Hell, didn't they manage to stay above water even up to their demise?*)
*I mean the demise of Atari proper--not of the intellectual property thereof which got passed to Hasbro, Infogrames (where it eventually "took over" its host), et al.
BAH! :angry: :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow
Wonderswan is getting to be a certified commercial failure, its slice of the market is so teeny and is just holding on by sheer inertia from Bandai's deep pockets.
<hugs his SwanCrystal> It's ok, Swannie, bok didn't mean it...
BTW what's it mean if a person's name in your sig is italicized?
Dan , the WonderSwan is a failure and you know it.
For my list , i'd have to put :
Tiger Game.Com
N-Gage
32X
Any Atari system after the 2600
Sega Master System (You know it failed , quit denying it)
Nuon
3DO
WonderSwan
Phillips CD-I
Saturn
To a lesser extent :
Nintendo 64
Dreamcast
Commodore 64
Neo Geo Pocket (Hey Im honest, why else are over 3,000 be on Ebay?)
Turbo Grafx 16
Virtual Boy
Tiger.com
Sega Game Gear
Turbo Express
Atari Lynx
Sega Master System (Yeah NES killed it no doubt)
Sega 32X
Sega CD
Phillips CD-i
Panasonic 3D0
GoldStar 3DO
PC-FX
Atari Jaguar
N64DD
Marty Town
Sega CDX
Sega TV (Yeah its not a system, but was nice to have Rockman that month)
Atari Jaguar CD
Neo Geo CD/Neo Geo AES (Sorry, so sorry, just had to say it outloud, because why can't only the people in this forum alone remember it very well and not someone who can say "Hey, I had one of those when I was a kid"?)
Stuff that didnt fail, yet people think they did:
Dreamcast
Genesis
Saturn
Nintendo 64
Game Boy Pocket (Notice how long it lasted, before GBC arrived?)
n64 is a failure because Nintendo lost the market to Sony, which still shows today.
But Nintendo made a killing revenue-wise.
What I find amusing is the "DC is a failure" mentality that is reflected in retail chains.
DC did pretty well over here, and people recognize that. It just wasn'tenough. Mainstreamers took the Sega pulling out message as "DC SUCKS!!1111" and have since written it off.
Then, retail chains (such as GameStop, EB Games) turn around and just don't even resell the stuff. I know that a LOT of people still buy DC stuff and it's still got a good following.
There's no good DC second-hand stores around here, save one or two.
I'm friendly with the guys at the EB Games outlet near here and they love to note that still, n64 and DCgames are among their biggest 2nd hand systems. They still sell a lot.
Funny.
Anyways, My picks for biggest Flops:
Atari 7800
There's a cornucopia of Atari Flops to pull from, but this one is REALLY a great Microcosm for Jack Tramiel's ineptitude at the Helm.
Your company produces a console. You, the CEO and owner, decide that taking a company that MADE ITS NAME ON CONSOLE GAMES AND DOMINATED THE MARKET TO THE POINT OF ENTERING THE CULTURAL LEXICON, should really just be making computers. You have warehouses FULL of these consoles you don't care for. You decide to wait, then when you need cash, release the stock to the public, just to make a few quick $$$.
This was a pretty cool system that was a console abortion. Who knows what could have happened had someone else rant Atari.
Atari Jaguar
Laugh at me. I was a Jag supporter. I bought the hype. I bought FFL on release day.I owned a pretty good size Jag collection in college.
Ok, stop.
This system was developed and sold in the late 80's(86-88, I think) Flare was(For its time) really powerful. Atari bought it, sat on it, then decided to get back to games and release it. The strange and sometimes deceptive ads.. the AWFUL software and the PAINS OF PROGRAMMING FOR 5 PROCESSORS doomed this machine to failure.
They stayed afloat for a bit, but then just died. Who knows what this system could have done, if not for Atari.
TurboGrafx
Domestically, this was "mainstream" for one X-Mas season. Fighting it out with Sega and Nintendo spelled the end for this. It was advertised well for a little and had the "Street Buzz" any console needed. Just didn't last.
Virtual Boy
AH!!! The system that showed that the Big N was indeed vulnerable. It seemd cool when you first heard about it, then the..."ALL RED???? WTF?!?!!" Damaging 8 year old's vision doesn't help either. ;) This is the turning point for Nintendo really, and shows hey.. they're just as dumb as anyone else.
32x/CDX/Saturn
I group these together because they all really were symptoms of the same problem.
Sega of Japan fucking over Sega of America.
Sega was a company founded by an American, cut its teeth in Japan and then decided to fuck the American Executives and Public.
They released too much stuff with little support. Within a short period, all of these were announced and supported. Not well, though. SoJ was not releasing quality titles here, not listening to the US offices, not even telling the US offices what was actually HAPPENING in the JP branch. The US offices would announce something, the JP office would discount them or contradict them.
Why by a CD or 32x when their next console is on the horizon? Why buy a Saturn when they barely supported the 32x or CD? This is the beginning of the Sega curse. Their vicious circle of failures and bad marketing started here.
NeoGeo
Yeah, I'll call it a US failure. It had "street buzz" as THE best system at the time. Unfortunately, at the time, games are STILL on the fringe of pop culture and"Geeky". What you don't do is release games at $250 a pop. You don't have a big enough fan base to draw that small percentage of nuts with $$$ from.
It may not have been marketed to everyone, but still.. it failed here.
Game.Com, Lynx, CD-i, 3do, Pippin, N-Gage...
A Bunch of "also-rans" that have already been covered.
If you're really interested in failed systems, I suggest doing your research on the Pre-'84 systems. It's shocking how many companies released systems that either DOA'd, never got released or were just collosal flops.
You can add that Phantom thing in a couple of months... that thing is going to crash and burn so hard it'll make the N-Gage look like it sold 2 million units.
To fail you have to exist.Quote:
Originally posted by YuckMud
You can add that Phantom thing in a couple of months... that thing is going to crash and burn so hard it'll make the N-Gage look like it sold 2 million units.
ROFL, you must be kidding?Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
Commodore 64
How old exactly are you?
According to the Guinness Book of Records, the C64 was the best selling computer in history. Even to today, in 2003. 30 Million plus sales.
I dunno where the hell you get failure from in that.
Also, Commodore was the first to make 1 billion dollars in sales.
Quote:
Originally posted by broken
ROFL, you must be kidding?
How old exactly are you?
According to the Guinness Book of Records, the C64 was the best selling computer in history. Even to today, in 2003. 30 Million plus sales.
I dunno where the hell you get failure from in that.
Also, Commodore was the first to make 1 billion dollars in sales.
Also add that they still make them TODAY and the cult following puts ANY OTHER SYSTEM TO SHAME. People have actually produced motherboards to mount in ATX cases (within the last 6 months). These things are like cancer.
Hehe..wacky bunch those C64'ers.Quote:
Originally posted by VanillaThunder
Also add that they still make them TODAY and the cult following puts ANY OTHER SYSTEM TO SHAME. People have actually produced motherboards to mount in ATX cases (within the last 6 months). These things are like cancer.
Hell, if thats failure, than I AM ALL ABOUT FAILING!
P.S.
I apologize for my awful spelling and missing of spaces. I'm typing on my laptop and the keys are all shot. My A.U, L and space keys are barely functional
Another Failure to note...
Atari 2600 Jr.
Re-Released to compete with the 8-Bit NES. Cheap, old OLD games and bad reputation for Atari just destroyed this thing. BAD IDEA.
No, Older then you, and it still failedQuote:
Originally posted by broken
ROFL, you must be kidding?
How old exactly are you?
According to the Guinness Book of Records, the C64 was the best selling computer in history. Even to today, in 2003. 30 Million plus sales.
I dunno where the hell you get failure from in that.
Also, Commodore was the first to make 1 billion dollars in sales.
Dude, you gotta back that up.Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
No, Older then you, and it still failed
In your mind, why or how did it fail?
I am honestly interested in hearing this.
edit: Wait a minute...I just checked your profile and it says you were born in 1980. Unless they are teaching a different type of math these days, I am still around 5 years older.
Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
No, Older then you, and it still failed
http://www.hut.fi/Misc/cbm/docs/history.html
Ummmmmm.... no.
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all, Im sticking to my story and thats final. I don't need to be told what is wrong with it. Sure you were born in 1975 maybe, but 5 years ain't jack to me. Sorry to cause an uproar to this post, but Im entitled to my opinion, just as much as anyoneQuote:
Originally posted by broken
Dude, you gotta back that up.
In your mind, why or how did it fail?
I am honestly interested in hearing this.
edit: Wait a minute...I just checked your profile and it says you were born in 1980. Unless they are teaching a different type of math these days, I am still around 5 years older.
Psh...Quote:
"Successes:
Commodore 64 - Best selling personal computer of all time. Over 10,000+ programs were written for it, both commerically and in public domain circles. Sold between 20-25 million units during its remarkable lifetime (1982-1992). "
Looks like a bomb to me :p
Sorry but there are some consoles listed here that could be considered failures from different opinions, but the best selling computer ever is not even up for debate, and unless you back up your claim, you are full of shit.Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all, Im sticking to my story and thats final. I don't need to be told what is wrong with it. Sure you were born in 1975 maybe, but 5 years ain't jack to me. Sorry to cause an uproar to this post, but Im entitled to my opinion, just as much as anyone
Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all, Im sticking to my story and thats final. I don't need to be told what is wrong with it. Sure you were born in 1975 maybe, but 5 years ain't jack to me. Sorry to cause an uproar to this post, but Im entitled to my opinion, just as much as anyone
No need for the personal attacks.. I'm also interested to hear why you think the C64 was a flop.
The figures and facts seem to point the opposite way. I just wanna hear your rationale.
So, in a nutshell you are saying that you are an idiot that likes to make claims and then not back them up, right?Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all, Im sticking to my story and thats final. I don't need to be told what is wrong with it. Sure you were born in 1975 maybe, but 5 years ain't jack to me. Sorry to cause an uproar to this post, but Im entitled to my opinion, just as much as anyone
I already stated why I think your opinion is way off base, the least you could do is retort it. Then again, I suppose they don't teach people these days how to back up what they say when it is questioned. They just hide in a corner repeating that "I am entitled to my opinion and thats that" routine.
Besides this thread asked for the biggest failures and why?
I ain't heard a why out of you.
Back it up, or fuck off.
I wouldn't technically say the SuperGrafx was a failure seeing as NEC pulled the plug on it early in its life.Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
[B]I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NEC SUPERGRAFX.
There are a total of 6 or 7 games available for it, but for some reason, I refuse to sell mine. It looks cool and the games are all pretty great!
The SGX sold quite well when it was released in Japan, even though it was really expensive.
The SGX's sole purpose was to go head to head with the Super Famicon, but when the SF was released, NEC decided the SGX was to expensive to manufacture and that the PC-E was still powerful enough to go up against Nintendo.
Also considering that it is backwards compatable with the PC-E you have around 700 games to play on it.
The C64 a failure? please.Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all, Im sticking to my story and thats final.
I'm 24 and I remember it was extremely popular in Southern California when I was 5. It was my first computer/gaming system.
Indeed:
"all my friends were knockin' down my door/just to get a look at my commodore 64"
Hell we had one of these in 7th grade science which would've been...1997ish. Everyone played that thing during any free time. Tapper was a hit.Quote:
Originally posted by Bobak
The C64 a failure? please.
I'm 24 and I remember it was extremely popular in Southern California when I was 5. It was my first computer/gaming system.
Indeed:
"all my friends were knockin' down my door/just to get a look at my commodore 64"
Actually, it discredits your post in which you stated to be older than broken, along with the Commodore 64 being a big system flop, in which broken countered rather nicely. Why do you think it was a big flop? It's ok to stick to your story, but at least create a story to be able to stick to. Just give your reasons why you think it was a flop, and if you can't, then say you can't and we can all move on.Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
And? Seeking in my profile doesn't help a thing at all
When you're talking about why a system failed, there should be some objective criteria to judge on. System sales relative to a population, profit, how long it was on the market, what its expectations were, etc. Then you compare those numbers to other systems and see how it stacks up. Since none of us have any 100% concrete numbers, we're relegated to a bit of inference and such, but that doesn't mean it's all just opinion. Of course there's opinion to an extent, but if you're not basing it on some facts, then you have nothing.Quote:
Originally posted by Heihachi-San
Im entitled to my opinion, just as much as anyone
:spock:Quote:
Originally posted by the roker
n64 is a failure because Nintendo lost the market to Sony, which still shows today.
But Nintendo made a killing revenue-wise.
Uh, that doesn't sound like a failure. The proof is in your own statement where you state they "lost" the market. If it was a true failure they would never have captured the market in the first place.
Ya know it's really interesting how many systems out there that people think are failures but can't really explain why. I'm guessing that most peeps think " SystemX was a failure because it only lasted 2 years". It that were the case the Gamecube could be considered a failure because they've ceased production of the system.
So again, i'm asking, what factors do you think qualifies a system to be a failure? Think about it? Is the Neo a failure? They're still making games for it? Yet, you can't call up SNK and order a new AES can you? OTOH, the system isn't/wasn't exactly a cash cow for SNK either. Dreamcasts are no longer being made, yet you've got a new release, BorderDown? What is a system failure?