http://entertainment.msn.com/news/ar...px?news=137020
Damn... I mean... Damn... doesn't sound too good for Roy either does it... I mean telling the whole group of show workers to find new jobs is a bad sign,
-Nick
Printable View
http://entertainment.msn.com/news/ar...px?news=137020
Damn... I mean... Damn... doesn't sound too good for Roy either does it... I mean telling the whole group of show workers to find new jobs is a bad sign,
-Nick
Hmm...
Cats do take their cubs in their teeth by the neck. I had the same thought in my mind:
"The illusionist tripped and the tiger lunged, grabbing Horn's arm, Fischbacher said. After Horn tried to free himself by hitting the tiger on the head with a microphone, the 600-pound animal took hold of his neck and then dragged him offstage. Show workers set off fire extinguishers backstage to distract the tiger, which then scurried to his cage.
Fischbacher said the tiger didn't intend to kill Horn. If that was the case, he said, "I wouldn't be here, Roy wouldn't be here.""
The more you think about it, the more sad it seems. They didn't deserve this. They're just a couple of harmless old German gay dudes that love tigers.
I really do hope Roy makes a full recovery.
But did you guys hear about that guy from Malibu that got killed by bears in Alaska? He actually took some chick up there with him and they got eaten. What a fucking dumbass that guy was. If it had just been him I would say he deserved it.
But he dragged his girlfriend with him telling her 'Oh it's allright- the grizzlies aren't dangerous. We're at one with nature- the circle of life"
What a dick.
I disagree completely. In order to make Tigers do what the do for their stupid show, they abuse them. It is NOT in the animal's nature to do tricks on command like that. There is a system of punishment and reward to train them out that way. In the end, it is taking a beautiful wild animal and training it to perform unnatural stunts for ignorant crowds.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
The more you think about it, the more sad it seems. They didn't deserve this. They're just a couple of harmless old German gay dudes that love tigers.
I really do hope Roy makes a full recovery.
But did you guys hear about that guy from Malibu that got killed by bears in Alaska? He actually took some chick up there with him and they got eaten. What a fucking dumbass that guy was. If it had just been him I would say he deserved it.
But he dragged his girlfriend with him telling her 'Oh it's allright- the grizzlies aren't dangerous. We're at one with nature- the circle of life"
What a dick.
Personally I'm glad he got mauled; hopefully it will put an end to the ridiculous show and there will be one less set of animals being abused for the entertainment of the masses. :mad:
Seconds anyone? :make_fac:Quote:
Originally posted by nruva
Re: Roy's tiger was trying to help himself?
Man, what a dick you are. It's fucking Seigfreid and Roy! They love those tigers. You think that they are 'abusing' them?Quote:
Originally posted by chimpmeister
Personally I'm glad he got mauled;
I will admit that have big, predatory cats doing tricks on stage is a relatively bad idea- but fuck Bryce- you're glad that poor old German gay dude got his neck opened up like a Christmas present?
Why would you be glad to see an obviously nice man get mauled nearly to death by a tiger?
What- because tigers are covered in pretty patterned fur we should worship them or something? "Oh they're such big, majestic, beautiful animals. Who are we to have them do tricks?"
They are fucking animals dumbass. They have the same brain power as a housecat.
Humans run fucking planet Earth OK? If we want to pamper some tigers and have them do tricks on stage it's not that big of a deal.
Certainly not a big enough deal to be 'glad' that a nice old German gay guy got nearly killed by one of them.
You're such a retard.
You could say that owning a pet is against an animal's nature as well. As far as I know, these animals are well fed and given lots of space to live in. Yeah, there's a system of punishment and reward to train any animal, but that sort of thing happens in nature as well. In nature, the animal would learn to hunt or it would die. Here, it just has to learn to do tricks for food instead.Quote:
Originally posted by chimpmeister
I disagree completely. In order to make Tigers do what the do for their stupid show, they abuse them. It is NOT in the animal's nature to do tricks on command like that. There is a system of punishment and reward to train them out that way. In the end, it is taking a beautiful wild animal and training it to perform unnatural stunts for ignorant crowds.
Personally I'm glad he got mauled; hopefully it will put an end to the ridiculous show and there will be one less set of animals being abused for the entertainment of the masses. :mad:
I don't feel sorry for this guy, either, but it's because he knew the risks involved in domesticating a tiger like that. Tigers are not rational like people. They don't understand what's going on. I also don't see the entertainment value in using the tigers. I'm just as impressed to see a dog doing something really elaborate. I don't care about seeing some big cat that could kill me.
I don't agree that there's some moral issue, here, though. Nature is not nice. These animals are living just as healthy a life as they would in nature, maybe even more so.
I'm with chimp on this too. I'm glad it happened. Hopefully it will get their show canned. Abusing animals in such a way to make cash is completely retarded.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
Man, what a dick you are. It's fucking Seigfreid and Roy! They love those tigers. You think that they are 'abusing' them?
I will admit that have big, predatory cats doing tricks on stage is a relatively bad idea- but fuck Bryce- you're glad that poor old German gay dude got his neck opened up like a Christmas present?
Why would you be glad to see an obviously nice man get mauled nearly to death by a tiger?
What- because tigers are covered in pretty patterned fur we should worship them or something? "Oh they're such big, majestic, beautiful animals. Who are we to have them do tricks?"
They are fucking animals dumbass. They have the same brain power as a housecat.
Humans run fucking planet Earth OK? If we want to pamper some tigers and have them do tricks on stage it's not that big of a deal.
Certainly not a big enough deal to be 'glad' that a nice old German gay guy got nearly killed by one of them.
You're such a retard.
But since it's 2 to 1 (you) maybe you're the retard for not looking out for your fellow animals. Go to the zoo and see how pathetic the tigers in their TINY cages look and how people throw shit at them and scream at them. Look out for something other than yourself sometime. You even said we run the planet. They were here 1st and more than likely will be here longer than you and I.
WTF is wrong with you and your world view?Quote:
Originally posted by gunrock46
You even said we run the planet. They were here 1st and more than likely will be here longer than you and I.
We DO run the planet and those fucking tigers were pampered and hand-fed fuckin' steaks every day.
What kind of ignorant, hippy ass fairyland do you live in?
Do you have any conception of the big picture? Of the history of the planet Earth? Do you understand evolution and how biology works? How species came into being and developed? What sets man apart from the multitudes of other species on Earth?
God damn how the American educational system has failed us-
I breath contempt in your direction. You are living in a candy (or hemp) coated dreamworld. Wake the fuck up.
I agree with neobuyer.
Wow, I thought I'd never say that, what's the world coming to
Hmmm... The Tigers at my zoo have like a 5 acre open air cage. Often it's the Zoos and the shows that raise animal sympathy. Do you think people would donate money to save the tigers if they never saw one except on "Wild Kingdom"?Quote:
Originally posted by gunrock46
I'm with chimp on this too. I'm glad it happened. Hopefully it will get their show canned. Abusing animals in such a way to make cash is completely retarded.
But since it's 2 to 1 (you) maybe you're the retard for not looking out for your fellow animals. Go to the zoo and see how pathetic the tigers in their TINY cages look and how people throw shit at them and scream at them. Look out for something other than yourself sometime. You even said we run the planet. They were here 1st and more than likely will be here longer than you and I.
If a hungry tiger met a person in the jungle, the tiger would be likely eat the person. So, a few tigers are domesticated or kept for study and now humans are the evil ones? The tiger is just a big hunter. It kills shit. Nature is much more bloody and violent than it is nice and peaceful. On an individual basis, I can see that maybe a few of the tigers in a zoo are not living a very good life, but in the big scheme of things I'm sure plenty of tigers suffer far worse fates in the wild. You know how in the food chain there is this equilibrium? More prey --> more food for predators --> predators thrive --> less prey due to increased predators --> predators starve --> more prey ETC. This whole balance of suffering keeps wildlife populations in check. Anyway, some of the animals have been captive for generations I think. I don't see how we could just let them back into the wild. We're stuck with these creatures. The only thing we can do is keep them or kill them. If anyone here owns a dog, can you imagine letting it back into the wild? Where would it go? It's just not feasable. Maybe the original act of taking the tigers was wrong, but at this point, it's not wrong to care for them now that they are removed from the jungle.Quote:
Originally posted by gunrock46
I'm with chimp on this too. I'm glad it happened. Hopefully it will get their show canned. Abusing animals in such a way to make cash is completely retarded.
But since it's 2 to 1 (you) maybe you're the retard for not looking out for your fellow animals. Go to the zoo and see how pathetic the tigers in their TINY cages look and how people throw shit at them and scream at them. Look out for something other than yourself sometime. You even said we run the planet. They were here 1st and more than likely will be here longer than you and I.
By the way, could you explain in what way it's more likely that tigers will outlive people? I don't see the logic in that...
Tigers are immune to radiation!
Maybe Bryce would feel differently if he knew that Roy was an avowed GameCube hater too, and would regularly bust out with some BloodWake before every show to get in the mood. :eye:
What a pansey, that guy in Harlem that got caught with the ghetto petting zoo got attacked by his tiger and he was fine.
I'm not happy that roy or that couple got mauled by wild animals, but let me make a point. Being up on stage dancing around with a big pradatory cat is just as stupid as wandering out into the wild to go see the bears. Both were unfortunate accidents precipitated by extreme stupidity. You can ramble on all day about how he loved the animals and blah blah blah, but if you play with fire...Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
The more you think about it, the more sad it seems. They didn't deserve this. They're just a couple of harmless old German gay dudes that love tigers.
I really do hope Roy makes a full recovery.
But did you guys hear about that guy from Malibu that got killed by bears in Alaska? He actually took some chick up there with him and they got eaten. What a fucking dumbass that guy was. If it had just been him I would say he deserved it.
But he dragged his girlfriend with him telling her 'Oh it's allright- the grizzlies aren't dangerous. We're at one with nature- the circle of life"
What a dick.
And this particular cat was hardly abused. He had an acre or two to run free on and had an exceptional diet. And it was born into captivity, so it's not like it was ripped from it's habitat, and even if it was, what does it have to look forward to there? Being hunted by indian poachers so it can be a $600 rug under someone's fireplace?
Matt
I live in the Hippie ass Fairyland where we're intelligent enough to know that nothing runs the planet. NOT us, not tigers, If anything Earth runs us. We need it's food, we need it's water, we need it's air. Since you are so intelligent can you tell us what sets man apart from the other species. I can and it's rather ironic. First man is the only creature to have a concept of laughter. Second man is the only creature to have malice. So what makes us different is not only can we have a good time but we can have a good time being serial killers.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
WTF is wrong with you and your world view?
We DO run the planet and those fucking tigers were pampered and hand-fed fuckin' steaks every day.
What kind of ignorant, hippy ass fairyland do you live in?
Do you have any conception of the big picture? Of the history of the planet Earth? Do you understand evolution and how biology works? How species came into being and developed? What sets man apart from the multitudes of other species on Earth?
God damn how the American educational system has failed us-
I breath contempt in your direction. You are living in a candy (or hemp) coated dreamworld. Wake the fuck up.
So, for those of you that are "glad" to see what happened to Roy Horn, do you have any actual PROOF that these animals were mistreated and unhappy?
Just to be clear, I'm not glad that he was hurt, and about the mistreatment of animals, that's a whole other story. But the Fucking Wanker who has zero common sense and thinks he owns a planet for fucks sake. That's what's retarded.
You do realize the irony of what you say when it is juxtaposed to your screen name... right?Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chosen_One
Just to be clear, I'm not glad that he was hurt, and about the mistreatment of animals, that's a whole other story. But the Fucking Wanker who has zero common sense and thinks he owns a planet for fucks sake. That's what's retarded.
-Nick
I have proof to the contrary actually. The trainer of the cat was just on MSNBC like a half hour ago and gave details of the cats regiment, and like I said in the previous post, it had all kinds of free roaming space and an excellent diet.Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix Down
So, for those of you that are "glad" to see what happened to Roy Horn, do you have any actual PROOF that these animals were mistreated and unhappy?
Matt
I do now. :smirk:Quote:
Originally posted by nruva
You do realize the irony of what you say when it is juxtaposed to your screen name... right?
-Nick
Their show was one of the few I haven't yet seen in Vegas, I hope I get the opportunity to see it in the future after Roy makes a full recovery.
Way to make up your own science, buddy. Yeah, the differences between people and other animals are just those two things! With that ability you have to make stuff up, who needs an education?Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chosen_One
First man is the only creature to have a concept of laughter. Second man is the only creature to have malice. So what makes us different is not only can we have a good time but we can have a good time being serial killers.
Yeah, there are murders every day, but consider that there are billions of people on the earth. A lot of people a day break their leg. Doesn't mean that everyone is constantly breaking bones! People just aren't violent in general. I've certainly never been attacked or attacked anyone else in my life. Maybe you live in a bad area??
Well I hope you were joking.
;)Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chosen_One
I do now. :smirk:
-Nick
I'm not even going to respond to some of the seriously palsied things I've read in this thread-
You guys who think man is somehow on the same level as, or even by proxy beneath the animal kingdom are posessed of an incredibly naive world view that has very little basis in reality.
A nice, effeminate old gay German guy got his neck bit open in front of an audience- by a tiger he fucking pampered- and some of you delusional, braindead jerk-offs say you're 'glad' it happened? Like- that's what humans deserve for putting those 'beautiful animals' up on stage?
You fucking guys are posessed of a dangerous concoction of naivete and stupidity that boggles my mind and reminds me of why I'm so misanthropic.
What's the biggest danger to human safety? Other stupid humans. Stupid humans that don't fucking understand anything about the way reality actually works- people that live in a delusional world of animistic fawning over the 'naural world'.
The moral of this story? Some humans are only slightly smarter than albino tigers.
AND ROY AINT ONE OF EM. OOWWNNEEDDD.Quote:
The moral of this story? Some humans are only slightly smarter than albino tigers.
Are you a complete moron? Did you read what you wrote? Animals are not put on this earth for people to abuse and exploit for their stupidass entertainment purposes. Those tigers are intelligent, beautiful animals, not stupid dumb animals. They have highly evolved brains and senses, and should be treated with respect. The same goes for the housecats, they are extremely intelligent and sensitive creatures (and dogs are too). You should have more respect for the animals that inhabit this planet, people should care enough to protect them and preserve them, not abuse them and make them into circus clowns.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
Man, what a dick you are. It's fucking Seigfreid and Roy! They love those tigers. You think that they are 'abusing' them?
I will admit that have big, predatory cats doing tricks on stage is a relatively bad idea- but fuck Bryce- you're glad that poor old German gay dude got his neck opened up like a Christmas present?
Why would you be glad to see an obviously nice man get mauled nearly to death by a tiger?
What- because tigers are covered in pretty patterned fur we should worship them or something? "Oh they're such big, majestic, beautiful animals. Who are we to have them do tricks?"
They are fucking animals dumbass. They have the same brain power as a housecat.
Humans run fucking planet Earth OK? If we want to pamper some tigers and have them do tricks on stage it's not that big of a deal.
Certainly not a big enough deal to be 'glad' that a nice old German gay guy got nearly killed by one of them.
You're such a retard.
As for Siegfried and Roy "loving" those cats, forcing them to perform those ridiculous stunts is a pretty fucking poor way to show it. They don't love them at all, they USE them for their offensive disgusting "show". I don't care of that fucking moron dies, if he does in fact it will be payback for all the abuse heaped on those animals over many many years.
As for domestic cats and dogs, they are DOMESTICATED animals and for the most part, DEPEND ON PEOPLE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH SHELTER AND FOOD. And again, I feel very strongly about people who abuse domestic animals; just watch Animal Cops or Animal Precinct on the Animal Planet channel, and you'll see what kind of sickening abuse goes on (and how people get arrested and jailed for it, as well, thankfully).
You need to do a major rethinking of your relationship to other animals on this planet; because looking at your current attitude, they (as well as everthing else on this planet) are just here for your entertainment, nothing more. Thats a pretty sad and egocentric way to look at things, and I hope someday you come around to a better understanding of how we should be taking care of this planet, someday. :shame:
Don't hold you breath. That "show" is probably history, they're already telling all the support staff to look for other jobs. Good riddance to an embarassing, ridiculous form of entertainment.Quote:
Originally posted by TriShield
Their show was one of the few I haven't yet seen in Vegas, I hope I get the opportunity to see it in the future after Roy makes a full recovery.
And a few other points. I NEVER said that the currently somewhat domesticated tigers should be released back into the wild. That of course makes no sense. All those tigers and lions and other animals who have been somewhat domesticated can't go back to the wild, and will have to depend on humans to take care of them throughout their lives. I say "somewhat" domesticated since as we all know, that one tiger proved that they clearly have wild instincts still in them, which can come forth.
Also, the animals may have had great diets and SOME room to roam (nothing close to what they would have in the wild, if you look into it), but they were abused to make them perform ridiculous, embarassing tricks. It is a series of punishment/reward that forces them to perform as they do, very simply.
Thanks to the others here who added some intelligent comments, which doesn't include Loopz who could only add a retarded, worthless, meaningless post to the subject at hand. Not surprising I guess, there are always a few who can't seem to add anything intelligent to the discussion at hand. He just happened to be the one in this thread . . . :oh_no:
Wake up, and look around you; there's a world OUTSIDE OF YOU. There is a song by Palo Alto with that title, and its a lesson you would do well to learn. You rant about the U.S. educational system, but apparently you not only never learned respect for the animals that inhabit this planet, but also your parents never taught you basic morals, to cherish all forms of life and do your best to protect animals that can't control their own fates.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
I'm not even going to respond to some of the seriously palsied things I've read in this thread-
You guys who think man is somehow on the same level as, or even by proxy beneath the animal kingdom are posessed of an incredibly naive world view that has very little basis in reality.
A nice, effeminate old gay German guy got his neck bit open in front of an audience- by a tiger he fucking pampered- and some of you delusional, braindead jerk-offs say you're 'glad' it happened? Like- that's what humans deserve for putting those 'beautiful animals' up on stage?
You fucking guys are posessed of a dangerous concoction of naivete and stupidity that boggles my mind and reminds me of why I'm so misanthropic.
What's the biggest danger to human safety? Other stupid humans. Stupid humans that don't fucking understand anything about the way reality actually works- people that live in a delusional world of animistic fawning over the 'naural world'.
The moral of this story? Some humans are only slightly smarter than albino tigers.
Let me ask you again to watch some episodes of Animal Cops and Animal Precinct, and see what other people with your attitude do to neglect, torture, and abuse animals that innocently depend on humans for their welfare. Its a sad, disgusting testament to our times that such things go on, but fortunately (in this country at least) attitudes about animal abuse are changing, and laws are being enforced against the miserable scum who abuse creatures with no thought for the pain and suffering they are inflicting. If there is reincarnation, which I don't believe in, it would be fitting for you to be reincarnated as a dog or cat that is abused by the very kind of person that you seem to be; then you might actually see the truth, but of course by then for you, it would be too late . . . :oh_no:
You have no idea what Siegfried and Roy have done for conservation of the white tiger, which was nearly extinct, do you? Immediately after Roy was wounded by Montecore he said and I quote "Dont harm the cat." Dont harm the cat, yeah thats what all animal abusers say after being nearly killed by there pet... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by chimpmeister
I disagree completely. In order to make Tigers do what the do for their stupid show, they abuse them. It is NOT in the animal's nature to do tricks on command like that. There is a system of punishment and reward to train them out that way. In the end, it is taking a beautiful wild animal and training it to perform unnatural stunts for ignorant crowds.
Personally I'm glad he got mauled; hopefully it will put an end to the ridiculous show and there will be one less set of animals being abused for the entertainment of the masses. :mad:
Seriously if you are glad he got mauled you are a twisted piece of human garbage. And if your going to accuse someone of abusing animals, you need FACTS to back them up. Contrary to what you may think training animals to perform tricks can be done without abusing them.
Also I think its fairly obvious the tiger wasn't trying to hurt Roy. If it was attacking him he would have been dead instantly. Siegfried and Roy have devoted their lives to protecting Tigers, and in over 40 years of working with them this is the first time something like this has happened. If they where abusing them so badly, wouldn't something like this have happened long ago and surly resulted in death?
You sound like one of thouse crazed PETA people.
I understand the importance of having animals available for people to see, and to raise money for their protection. You just can never escape the fact that a tiger is a wild animal, one of the top predators in the world. They had him out of his environment on stage, being handles by a person. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
OK bryce, I don't want to insult you in this thread, but I do want to get my point across- and I do want to make my position on this subject clear.Quote:
Originally posted by chimpmeister
Those tigers are intelligent, beautiful animals, not stupid dumb animals. They have highly evolved brains and senses, and should be treated with respect. The same goes for the housecats, they are extremely intelligent and sensitive creatures (and dogs are too). You should have more respect for the animals that inhabit this planet, people should care enough to protect them and preserve them, not abuse them and make them into circus clowns.
But first- your world view, while admirable in certain respects, is just 'daydreaming in the clouds' unrealistic. Are you one of those finge GreenPeace hippies now? You sound like one. Are you going to board the 'Rainbow Warrior' and try and confront whaling ships or something?
Fisrt off Tigers (or housecats for that matter) do not have 'highly evolved brains' compared to humans or other intelligent animals. Tigers are stupid, instinctual creatures- predators from south and southeast Asia- they are wild animals. Just because you think their camoflauge pattern fur is 'beautiful' doesn't make them somehow better than any other, less attractive dumb animal on the planet.
The animals on Earth that have 'highly evolved brains' are dolphins, whales and porpoises, the great apes (Gorrillas, Orangutans, Chimps and Bonobos(?), and certain types of birds- Parrots and Cockatiels, etc.
Tigers? Not intelligent. They are big asian predatory cats. Sure they have highly evolved 'senses'- they're hunters.
But they are fucking animals. Stop putting anthropomorphic qualities on them- they have 'pretty' fur because those patterns evolved to comoflauge them in forests of bamboo, grass and shrubbery- in places like India, VietNam and Thailand. White tigers are just an albino anomoly- a genetic mutation. They are not 'magic' and 'magestic' - those are human conceptions your attributing to them.
I'm not saying it's a good idea to make big strong predatory cats into Las Vegas performers- it's actually pretty dangerous. But what the fuck- how could you be 'Glad' that one of those stupid tigers bit Roy's neck like that? The tiger didn't even want to hurt Roy you retard- but the tiger's brain is so simple it doesn't understand that humans are not as strong and thick skinned and sturdily built as other tigers.
I don't condone cruelty of any sort- but those pampered tigers are living a life better than you or I. They get fed fucking steaks and shit every day. They get to roam around and play with toys in air conditioned comfort. Those two German fags fawn all over them and pamper them. Stop acting like they're some cruel exploitive bastards. They're a couple of nice old guys that really love tigers and magic and show business. Those tigers are their lives.
Your view of mankind and the planet and reality is really off and it borders on pseudo-religiousness.
Go live with teary eyed Chief 'Iron Eyes' Cody in fucking Montana and wear hemp clothing like fucking Woody Harrelson for all I care. You just don't understand the way the world works. You don't have any conception of what dynamics actually make up life on Earth.
No fucking wonder you're an X-box fanboy. That's gotta be an early sign of dementia.
But then . . .Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
OK bryce, I don't want to insult you in this thread<snip>.
Dude, you're really contradicting yourself here. First you say you don't want to insult me, then you do it. At least keep it honest.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
Go live with teary eyed Chief 'Iron Eyes' Cody in fucking Montana and wear hemp clothing like fucking Woody Harrelson for all I care. You just don't understand the way the world works. You don't have any conception of what dynamics actually make up life on Earth.
No fucking wonder you're an X-box fanboy. That's gotta be an early sign of dementia.
Do I work for PETA? Do I protest in the streets? No. But I do work as a volunteer at two different animal rescue organizations, which take in stray, abandoned, and abused dogs and cats and find homes for them. Having worked with these animals for a while now, I have a different view than you do about their intelligence. Sad, you probably never grew up with any dogs or cats, and are thus ignorant about them.
In the end, Siegfried and Roy's show is barbaric, outdated, and a throwback to the old days when animals were things that could be used for human entertainment. Circuses are the same to me, which is why I'll never go to one or support them with a dime of my money. They're dying out thankfully, and in time we'll look back on them as an embarassment of our past.
As for the tigers, no amount of pampering can replace the natural life they had, and the tricks they do are stupid and make many people sick to watch. Again, your world view of mankind is very egocentric and thoughtless, but its obviously not going to change anytime soon. Pretty fucking sad if you ask me. :oh_no:
I'm starting my own show. I got some street kids from India and Africa (they where born into poverty, what's the big deal?) and I'm gonna make them jump through hoops.
I mean, this will raise money for the rest of the millions and millions of poor people?
U don't fucking own the animal kindom. You can't own a tiger. Consumerism has seriously fucked up many people's human values.
I don't give a damn if these animals have heaps of space to roam. If it isn't their habitat then what is the point? And if they become extinct well then that is one serious fucking problem, but you will not solve it by 'selling' them.
I don't know what ZOOs are like in the US but the ones I've visited... I don't think you can take anything more away from these animals. Its a joke that people think that ZOOs are humanitarian.
Actually I wasn't making up my own science. Obviously there are many physical differences, I was talking on a more philosophical level. As in emotions. The only two emotions that no animal on Earth has except humans, are laughter and malice. But if you can prove me wrong that is cool. I actually got this from my proffesor at the university that's giving me my unneeded education.Quote:
Originally posted by dmhawkmoon
Way to make up your own science, buddy. Yeah, the differences between people and other animals are just those two things! With that ability you have to make stuff up, who needs an education?
Yeah, there are murders every day, but consider that there are billions of people on the earth. A lot of people a day break their leg. Doesn't mean that everyone is constantly breaking bones! People just aren't violent in general. I've certainly never been attacked or attacked anyone else in my life. Maybe you live in a bad area??
Well I hope you were joking.
And because you've never been attacked also doesn't mean it never happens. That's the point. Not every human has malice, but humans can feel that emotion. Animals do not. Hence, when a tiger attacks Roy there is a reason, protecting it's owner etc. But humans will attack for no reason at all. This doesn't mean they all do, but some of them do and have. Once again something animals don't do. Although there are supposedly rare cases in which they have, though none of those have been proven to my knowledge.
So if your going to acuse me of making up my own science, then prove me wrong with something, don't just run in throwing around some faulty deductive reasoning and tossing out insults about my education. I like others have my good days and bad, and I get heated sometimes like everyone else. But I try not to put everyone down that I run into. Something that every post you make seems to be about. So if your really as intelligent as you pretend to be, then look that up in a psycology book. It usually shows low self-esteem that you try to adjust for by lowering everyone around you.
you must have trouble comprehending.Quote:
Originally posted by chimpmeister
But then . . .
Dude, you're really contradicting yourself here. First you say you don't want to insult me, then you do it. At least keep it honest.
This statement shows that neobuyer will insult you. The "but" should be sufficient to let you know that although he doesn't want to, he may have to, in order to get his point across.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
OK bryce, I don't want to insult you in this thread, but I do want to get my point across- and I do want to make my position on this subject clear.
I think CraigPilecky owned most of your asses.
ps: most of you are fucking idiots for not being able to read through neobuyers sarcasm. He's fucking hitting YOU over the head with it by now, and you just can't get past an effininate gay german being mauled. :rolleyes:
idiots.
chimps laugh, and for reasons that seem to be humorous. I think theare two emotions that really separates us from animals: greed and disgust. Animals have been known to display everything else.
Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chosen_One
Actually I wasn't making up my own science. Obviously there are many physical differences, I was talking on a more philosophical level. As in emotions. The only two emotions that no animal on Earth has except humans, are laughter and malice. But if you can prove me wrong that is cool. I actually got this from my proffesor at the university that's giving me my unneeded education.
And because you've never been attacked also doesn't mean it never happens. That's the point. Not every human has malice, but humans can feel that emotion. Animals do not. Hence, when a tiger attacks Roy there is a reason, protecting it's owner etc. But humans will attack for no reason at all. This doesn't mean they all do, but some of them do and have. Once again something animals don't do. Although there are supposedly rare cases in which they have, though none of those have been proven to my knowledge.
So if your going to acuse me of making up my own science, then prove me wrong with something, don't just run in throwing around some faulty deductive reasoning and tossing out insults about my education. I like others have my good days and bad, and I get heated sometimes like everyone else. But I try not to put everyone down that I run into. Something that every post you make seems to be about. So if your really as intelligent as you pretend to be, then look that up in a psycology book. It usually shows low self-esteem that you try to adjust for by lowering everyone around you.
Now that's a funny thread, didn't click at it at first because, well, let's put it this way, Siegried and Roy do not belong to my sphere of interest, but I've read a lot of crap in here and felt like commenting on one or two things.
I'm not a "tree hugger" as you Americans would say, but I also think that keeping huge wild animals in cages and dragging them around like dolls while posing for photos that appear in glossy star mags is not only pathetic but also shows a strange kind of understanding of the respect of animals. I won't say that S&R don't love their white tigers, but in a human kind of way that simply doesn't fit to the wild nature of these animals.
Unlike house cats or dogs, white tigers are no pets, they cannot be domesticated like cattle or dogs. The attack happened because Roy's action on stage provoked the tiger's hunting instinct, the tiger had Roy by his throat which is a typical way for a big cat to kill his prey - keeping the bite on the throat until the prey suffocates. This was no "helping attack" or "just playing around", the tiger started a deadly attack and had killed Roy in a heartbeat if staff members hadn't prevented it.
I'm by far not a fan of S&R or their gay illusions, but I sure don't want Roy to die or anything. Chimp, I think you made a big idiot out of yourself. :shame:
My two (three cents):
First of all, you people can stop talking about "conservation" because the only thing Roy is concerned about conserving is his big, fat paycheck. The white tiger is NOT a seperate species - it's a genetic mutation. A freak. Look at the National Endangered Species List and see if you see "White Tigers" on there anywhere. You won't. Most Zoos and National Parks have actually go so far as to BAN the breeding of white tigers, because they SERVE NO PURPOSE other than to entertain the masses with tricks. What Siegfreid and Roy have done is take this mutation and make more by inbreeding. Inbreeding is unnatural, and, as a result, leads to high levels of aggression, depression and basically screwed-up emotions and coping skills. I'm surprised it's taken one THIS long to finally hurt one of them, so all that that means is that their trainers are really good, not that the tigers actually LIKE it.
It's a sign of mankind's hubris when the people on this thread are focusing solely on the differences between "Man" and "the animals". Their are billions of differences between each animal, and billions of differences between each animal and Man. You can't just lump every animal into one "THE ANIMALS" and then compare it to Man to try and figure things out. Man is an animal, and should thus be compared to one animal at a time. We're similar to different animals in different ways (dolphins laugh and have sex just for pleasure; the badger hunts for sport; wolves feel shame; the great apes prefer heated baths and salted foods, etc, etc). There is no "animals" and "Man". There's just "animals".
One last thing: you live a much, much, much, much, infinitely better life than those white tigers, or ANY animal in captivity. It doesn't matter if they get fed every day, five times a day. It doesn't matter how BIG their cage is. You're free. You can take a nice, long walk through your neighborhood, find a date, have kids and have a good, free life. They can't. Enjoy it.
why didn't siegfried pull out the soul edge and kill the tiger?
How this turned into an Existential dispute on what is man and the feelings and desires of animals is beyond me... So... anyone want some pie?
-Nick
Apple?:drool:
Humans are a cancer on this planet for once in many years I agree with ChimpmeisterQuote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
Man, what a dick you are. It's fucking Seigfreid and Roy! They love those tigers. You think that they are 'abusing' them?
I will admit that have big, predatory cats doing tricks on stage is a relatively bad idea- but fuck Bryce- you're glad that poor old German gay dude got his neck opened up like a Christmas present?
Why would you be glad to see an obviously nice man get mauled nearly to death by a tiger?
What- because tigers are covered in pretty patterned fur we should worship them or something? "Oh they're such big, majestic, beautiful animals. Who are we to have them do tricks?"
They are fucking animals dumbass. They have the same brain power as a housecat.
Humans run fucking planet Earth OK? If we want to pamper some tigers and have them do tricks on stage it's not that big of a deal.
Certainly not a big enough deal to be 'glad' that a nice old German gay guy got nearly killed by one of them.
You're such a retard.
I'm going to make one last little statement here- and if you guys wanna let the tread die, then let it.
Life on Earth has no rules, guidelines, rights or wrongs. Do what thou CAN shalt be the whole of the law- when it comes to the development of living species on Earth over the last several billion years.
That being said- all animals are fundamentally the same- the only thing truly separating the species is our brains.
Humans have, by far, the most sophisticated thought processes on the planet. It is for this reason that Humans dominate the world. Also- Humans are, like it or not, creatures born wholly of the natural world.
Now, getting back to the point at hand- Tigers? Stupid. Humans? Smart.
Now I am no advocate of keeping wild animals captive under bad conditions for the entertainment of a bunch of slack-jawed retards (AKA the circus)- but Seigfried and Roy are not some animal abusing money hungry evildoers. They are eccentric old wierdos that love tigers more than you or I.
The only reason you pussies are all upset about Tigers be held captive and made to perform is because they are 'beautiful' and 'majestic'.
You don't seem to have that much of a problem with the millions of slave/food animals Humans breed En Masse every day in every part of the world. In the US alone we slaughter hundreds of millions of cows, pigs and chickens yearly to slake our thirst for their meat and by-products.
But heaven forbid a couple of old gay eccentrics keep a bunch of Albino tigers in Vegas and put them in a fucking stage show.
Please, PLEASE take a step back from your POVs and look at the world as a whole, think of all the maladies that assail the planet and then tell me how great are the crimes of Messrs. Seigfried and Roy.
Wow, that's a great attitude to have. Humans are destroying planet earth. At the current rate, Tigers will be extinct in the wild by 2010. I don't find it amusing that Roy got mauled by a Tiger, but they are wild animals and you have to be cautious with them. As long as the animal is well cared for, I see nothing wrong with having them perform, as long as it's not against their will. Humans are not the top of the food chain, put a unarmed man in the jungle with a Tiger and I assure you the Tiger will have a good meal. It's that attitude that makes people destroy the rainforests, wipe out entire species and basically kill the planet. I truly feel sorry for you if you really believe what you said.Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
Man, what a dick you are. It's fucking Seigfreid and Roy! They love those tigers. You think that they are 'abusing' them?
I will admit that have big, predatory cats doing tricks on stage is a relatively bad idea- but fuck Bryce- you're glad that poor old German gay dude got his neck opened up like a Christmas present?
Why would you be glad to see an obviously nice man get mauled nearly to death by a tiger?
What- because tigers are covered in pretty patterned fur we should worship them or something? "Oh they're such big, majestic, beautiful animals. Who are we to have them do tricks?"
They are fucking animals dumbass. They have the same brain power as a housecat.
Humans run fucking planet Earth OK? If we want to pamper some tigers and have them do tricks on stage it's not that big of a deal.
Certainly not a big enough deal to be 'glad' that a nice old German gay guy got nearly killed by one of them.
You're such a retard.
Quote:
Originally posted by nruva
How this turned into an Existential dispute on what is man and the feelings and desires of animals is beyond me... So... anyone want some pie?
-Nick
sounds good. mmmmmm, pie.:D
* eats a lot of pie *
*GULP*
Okay, now let's get it on...
Heh, for a minute I felt like starting a discussion about your version of Crowley's famous Do What Thou Wilt quote, but I guess that would finally cement my über-nerd status so I leave that for another one of your threads in Creative. :)Quote:
Originally posted by neobuyer
I'm going to make one last little statement here- and if you guys wanna let the tread die, then let it.
Life on Earth has no rules, guidelines, rights or wrongs. Do what thou CAN shalt be the whole of the law- when it comes to the development of living species on Earth over the last several billion years.
That's right, and because of the fact that humans have a much more flexible and powerful thinking device, it shouldn't be too much to ask for a second of thought about their own status and place on this planet. At the moment, humans are the so-called "crown of creation", but that wasn't always the case, and if I'm not totally mistaken, it won't be the case in a few tens of thousands of years because no race is meant to live forever.Quote:
That being said- all animals are fundamentally the same- the only thing truly separating the species is our brains.
Humans have, by far, the most sophisticated thought processes on the planet. It is for this reason that Humans dominate the world. Also- Humans are, like it or not, creatures born wholly of the natural world.
As far as I can tell, we have two options what to do with this knowledge, we can either follow Darwin's path of the strongest that will survive in this battle of the species and, consequently, will wipe itself out because no race/species/whatever can survive without living in symbiosis with other beings, even if some materialist thinkers want us to believe that, or use our powerful brains and not always let our basic instintcs take control. There are more ways to live than just battling our way to the top of evolution, don't you think.
I won't argue that S&R love their cats, but as I already wrote earlier, they do it in a human way, like the little girl that grabs her cat, dresses it like a doll and pushes it around in a pram. This girl sure loves her cat more like anything else, but she doesn't really care about how the cat feels about it because for her, the cat is like a little sister, not an animal.Quote:
Now, getting back to the point at hand- Tigers? Stupid. Humans? Smart.
Now I am no advocate of keeping wild animals captive under bad conditions for the entertainment of a bunch of slack-jawed retards (AKA the circus)- but Seigfried and Roy are not some animal abusing money hungry evildoers. They are eccentric old wierdos that love tigers more than you or I.
One should think that two grown men would be smarter than a little girl.
I'm not happy about mass marketing of animals and that's why I do my part to support better alternatives, but that's another can of worms... I agree that some ppl may have this "majestic wild animal" point of view and always are ready to help a big furry animal in distress while they don't give a fuck about the way cattle are treated in order to give ppl a big phat steak. I hate this bigotry which is the same that lets presidents talk about love and the will of god and start a war at the same time.Quote:
The only reason you pussies are all upset about Tigers be held captive and made to perform is because they are 'beautiful' and 'majestic'.
You don't seem to have that much of a problem with the millions of slave/food animals Humans breed En Masse every day in every part of the world. In the US alone we slaughter hundreds of millions of cows, pigs and chickens yearly to slake our thirst for their meat and by-products.
But heaven forbid a couple of old gay eccentrics keep a bunch of Albino tigers in Vegas and put them in a fucking stage show.
I don't know what POV is, but I always look at the world as a whole. Personally, I don't think S&R have done something really wrong, it's just that I find them and their relationship to their animals ridiculous at best, and the attack against Roy was a direct result of this unnatural pairing between two gay illusionists and a couple of genetically sick tigers that would get bitten to death immediately after birth by their father or mother because unlike S&R, they know that albinos wouldn't be able to survive in the wild.Quote:
Please, PLEASE take a step back from your POVs and look at the world as a whole, think of all the maladies that assail the planet and then tell me how great are the crimes of Messrs. Seigfried and Roy.
Now forget about letting this thread die and let's dicuss, mister! :D
Well Tak- I can agree with that 100%. :DQuote:
Originally posted by Takumaji
* Personally, I don't think S&R have done something really wrong, it's just that I find them and their relationship to their animals ridiculous at best, and the attack against Roy was a direct result of this unnatural pairing between two gay illusionists and a couple of genetically sick tigers that would get bitten to death immediately after birth by their father or mother because unlike S&R, they know that albinos wouldn't be able to survive in the wild.
They are rediculous.