Since am one of the few Heat fans,, I need to hear all the hate, the Finals have arrived.
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Since am one of the few Heat fans,, I need to hear all the hate, the Finals have arrived.
go
fu heat
wade has worn out wheels, bosh and allen are past their prime, birdman is thug and downloads kiddy pr0n, battier is the dirtiest player this side of artest
spurs all the way
go tim duncan the big big fundamental and tony parker #1 pg in the league
EVVVAAAAAAAAA!
http://www.empowernetwork.com/aharwo...ria-bikini.jpg
oh and GINOBILYYYYYYYYYYYY!
That's all I got.
I thought Lebron was gonna hurt himself while crying for a foul last night. Then again his body is prob used to that abuse.
Nothing was as bad as watching Hibbert sulking like a bitch at the very end, he looked like the 2012 Cam Newton on the side like that.
I love football, big fan.
Should be a 7 game series. Parker is gonna dictate so much because how versatile he is off dribble penetration there is no way Wade can keep up with that bone bruise. Don't be surprised that Lebron will be on him. Give the slight edge to the Spurs, think the rest did them well especially for Manu. Also like their bench depth. I look for them to contain Wade, let Lebron get his points and let Tim take care of Bosh. It'll be up to Miami to get Allen hitting 3s, Haslem hitting his mid-rangers and setting up Birdman at the rim for the Heat to win it. Duncan still provides problems that Hibbert does in size but his overall game even at 37 is so superior and doesn't get into foul trouble. They sure won't turn the ball over 15 freaking times in a half the way Indy does. Indy's guard play is so awful and when they can't score, the droughts are killers. Heat really need to get themselves a true center, not a PF like Bosh who is I won't say soft, but he's just not physical enough in the paint or in the post. Both teams have so many fucking floppers, with Stern leaving and not doing jack-shit about that except $5,000 fines, it's time to implement some rough justice next season on all temas and get either technical fouls called on blatant flops or threaten suspension, that shit is a disgrace and embarassment to the game. Overall, should be a fun series.
The Heat win in four.
The Spurs are nothing without the Admiral, and the Heat are the Yankees of the NBA. Fuck'em both.
Fucking awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy KGB
I hate Miami but they are probably going to win.
Shitters.
Jesus fucking Christ. Falling down after being shoved by Nazr Mohammed was not a flop. LeBron was looking away and didn't even see it coming. Heat/LeBron haters need to fucking get their heads straight.
Ray Allen's the biggest "class act" fraud I've ever seen. I think Shaq's usually full of crap, but holy cow was he on to something when he called Bosh RuPaul.
I’m just hoping for a competitive series (no sweep).
reminds me of someone in the better playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy KGB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGDLOYNsjuc
James is a great player with a ton of athleticism and raw talent. That said, he's still a crybaby who flops far too often and always seems to choke when everything comes down to him. I put up with his shit when he played in Cleveland since I've been a Cavs fan since I can remember, but he is certainly not above criticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
How dare you speak out against the King!Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
'tis the highest of treason! Loyal Miami subjects demand satisfaction!
Oh, and go Spurs.
EDIT: I think his choking days are over. His problem now is that he defers far too often. I recognize that he's trying to get his team involved, but he's shown that MJ style killer instinct in the past. He needs to keep showing it more. It is a strength he has and should utilize it more often.
By choke, I mainly meant miss a critical free throw or two in the 4th quarter, which he is still known to do. I guess you could also lump deferring to an inconsistent Chalmers or Wade into the choke category if the game is on the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
I never said he was. I wasn't talking about anything but the incident where Nazr shoved him. It's on a flop reel when it's CLEARLY NOT a flop. Them haters need to get their heads out of their asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
And please stop with the choking talk. He's been way beyond that ever since the 2011 finals.
Is Ray Allen also a choker? He's missed a ton of free throws in this last round. My point is that everybody will miss one now again, but that doesn't mean they're chokers.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Derrick Rose choked up badly I remember.
My apologies. I must have misconstrued your statement, "Heat/LeBron haters need to fucking get their heads straight." as a general sentiment and not particularly about one flop/non-flop. Who cares about that one call, though? He flops game in and game out, so much so that you can't give him the benefit of the doubt when he is fouled/knocked to the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
And I don't think he's "way beyond" his choking days. He had a good run during the 2012 NBA Playoffs. I'd say he needs to repeat that at least once before we start saying that he's way beyond choking (something he's done in the vast majority of his playoff appearances).
Edit:
I did consider adding Allen to my list of inconsistent Heat players in that post, considering that he's way past his prime and isn't the lock from the foul line or three-point line that he once was. You would try to make a distinction between the term "choking" and failing to deliver under pressure. I don't care what terms we use; I calls 'em like I sees 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
I'm sorry he wouldn't have gone flying like that. The man is 250 pounds, and is in great shape. You don't just go flying in the air like that. This isn't the WWF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
It also doesn't matter since he carries such a bad reputation for flopping you can't take anything he does seriously in regards to falling down. He is the boy who cried wolf. Back in the 90s you had players just crash into each other and now everyone thinks its fucking FIFA and we should all roll on the ground in agony. The NBA has turned into some whiny bullshit sport that is full of media darlings and drama queens that don't understand that its a fucking team sport.
Then go make a Derrick Rose choking thread and post some vids.Quote:
Originally Posted by jsiucho
This thread is about the Miami Cheat and the San Antonio Spurs.
:lolz:
He may have absorbed the contact like you do when you draw an offensive foul, but that doesn't make it a flop. Nazr Mohammed is no scrawny weakling, and if LeBron isn't prepared to get shoved (he was, as mentioned, looking away until the last split second), I don't see why falling down has to be a flop.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrochiEddie
I do. I don't care how people perceive his flopping at other times. When he doesn't flop he doesn't fucking flop. I'm also sick of the conspiracy theory shit, which got more retarded ammo by Nazr being thrown out instead of just getting a tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
He's been carrying the Heat for at least two rounds now. With least year's great Finals performance there's no reason to think he'll return to choking. Unless you're blinded by hate and envy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
All other good players do it. Chris Paul has a far, far more "impressive" flop real. LeBron has been getting hosed by the refs all season, so he definitely hasn't been given the benefit of the doubt . I know he's being singled out by haters because he's the best and people hate that they don't have him on their team.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
That's called selective memory. He's been great in most series in which he's played. That 2011 Finals was one crap series, and there were probably some bad games in other series in which his Cavs lost. The reason they got swept against the Spurs and they didn't make it to the finals later on was because the supporting cast was crap. When his second best teammate was Mo Williams, and Mo got an all-star appearance because of injury to another player, Mo COMPLETELY vanished in the playoffs, and once again LeBron had to carry the load. Against great Celtics squads and whatnot, that's not going to be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Implying that LeBron is the only flopper out there is retarded. Tons of players flop because it's usually not caught and they gain an advantage doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrochiEddie
Two things in Naiera's favor, even though I hate the Heat:
1.) Flopping IS a league wide problem. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have put rules in to deal with it. That may be a statement on how pathetic the NBA is now, but it's simply the way it is.
2.) Lebron is not a choke artist just because he occasionally misses a free throw now and again. I define a guy like John Starks as a choke artist, someone who elevated his game to a superstar level and then had one bad game against the Houston Rockets and never recovered from it. Lebron keeps bouncing back, and that is the mark of a superstar and one of the greatest ever.
Lebron IS an occasional flopper in my opinion, but it's not nearly as bad as that video would have others believe. It's easy to pick out ten or even twenty flops he's done in his career, even just in Miami, but compare that against all the games he's played in and it's a fairly small number. A similar video could be made of any player once flopping became a way to draw a foul.
Again, flopping in general is bullshit but every sport has its little tricks players do to get an edge. Flopping is one of basketball's 'little tricks.'
I didn't see anyone else bring up this conspiracy theory or harp on that one particular call (like you're doing). Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Blinded by hate and envy? No one is viciously arguing with you, just stating casual observations about Lebron's game. Why all this shortsighted fanboyism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Yes, he is singled out somewhat because he is one of the best players in the NBA. Among the best players in the league, he flops the most. That's all there is to it. AND, it's most evident when Lebron flops because of his large, physical, intimidating presence and athleticism. It would be hard to knock him down, yet he looks like a fish out of water when medium-sized defenders bump him or hit his arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Not selective memory. You agree that he choked on many occasions playing with the Cavs in the playoffs (over four seasons) and then again had a terrible 2011 Finals. That is the majority of his playoff experience. Yes, he is showing signs of dominance now, but his MO has been dropping a few plays or a few games in between spurts of complete dominance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
In terms of choking, he had two consecutive passes stolen from him at critical points at the end of a recent playoff game because he chose to defer rather than just take the last shot.
You can say 'everyone's expecting him to do that' so he's facing an uphill battle, but it doesn't matter. Everyone expects Michael, Kobe, and all the 'greats' in NBA history to take that last shot. That is what a great player does. It's an intangible element that truly makes the difference between a proficient player and a NBA legend.
Additionally, many NBA players have won multiple championships while being significant contributors on their team. Look no further than Miami's own Mario Chalmers, who is a good player and who, more often than not, has contributed to Miami success. He will never be mistaken for a legend.
In short, Lebron shouldn't allow himself to be called 'King James' if he's not willing to live up to all the lofty expectations the media puts on that title.
It is his only flaw as a player in my opinion. He needs to become more ruthless on the court.
I don't think you understand why I'm "harping". Falling down after being almost viciously shoved by Nazr Mohammed is on a FLOP REEL. This bothers me because it wasn't a fucking flop, and this leads me to say that the haters need to fucking learn how to see straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
LOL. He's by far the best player on the planet and there is absolutely no point in discussing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
I would say that Chris Paul is also among the best players in the league. He flops a hell of a lot more. He's not playing right now though...Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
No, I don't agree. Losing is not choking. MJ, Kobe, Duncan, etc. never won anything on their own. LeBron had no one to help him at any point when he was with the Cavs. He got to the finals much earlier in his career than Jordan, but was swept because he had no help and the Spurs just brutally over-powered and "out-experienced" LeBron and the Cavs. That doesn't mean he choked.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Note that the first time LeBron was fined or even cited for flopping was on that double flop with David West, where West was also fined. If there was a conspiracy carried out by the refs to help the Heat win (which is the argument people will probably come up with to explain the lack of LeBron-flop-fines until now), his free throw attempts per game this year wouldn't be down by one whole attempt from least year, and down as much as three from his most productive years at the line. I've watched almost all Heat games this year that weren't played on the west coast (cuz it's too damn late to stay up for), and he's been getting hosed on foul calls all year long. I know why he was bitching about it so much the other night in game six, and it's because he was sick and tired of not getting his damn calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
How can there be two turnovers/passes when there is just one last shot? ;) I watched that game and David West was just lucky as hell to be there to intercept those two passes. Shit happens. If you expect LeBron to be Kobe or MJ, you can criticise him for "deferring" (I prefer to just call it passing the ball to get a better shot), but he's a lot more Magic than people seem to realise. If he really wanted to lead the league in scoring, he obviously could, but he chooses to include his teammates more, because that's how he likes to do shit. Can't really criticise a guy for wanting to share the wealth a bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
I have to admit it's a lot funnier watching Lebron flop, though. When he flops, it looks like terrible overacting, almost like a mime being blown by the wind. And he DOES flop.
But I'd like to see him get to a point where he stops the occasional flopping and just goes into Assassin mode and decides 'I'm just going to score 50 points on you now.' That's how the greats always responded. Lebron has those flashes where you look at him and you think 'Oh shit, we're about to see something special on the court tonight.'
Although in many cases, these same Assassins also politicized the officiating in post game to put the refs on notice and lobby for more preferential treatment in the next game. Most of the superstars in the post Jordan era except, maybe, for Tim Duncan (and probably him, too), have done the same thing. It's just part and parcel of the bureaucracy of NBA court politics.
First of all, you know what I'm saying, Lebron fan #1:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
But I DO criticize him for that. For me,l personally, I want to see dominant players be the alpha male, not the good teammate. It's my personal preference and it's what I like to see NBA superstars do. So for my tastes, it's weak for him to defer when he has the tools and talent to just win the game.
Ok. You disagree with that flop call. That's fine. Lebron's usual reaction when approached with physical contact is to fall down and slide across the floor (often under his own power). That's why people accuse him of flopping every time he falls down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Yes, Lebron is probably the best player in the NBA (that pretty much means best player in the world). Kevin Durant, Tony Parker, Carmelo Anthony, and Kobe Bryant (even at his age) all have a good argument for the title, though. It is easy to say that those are the best five players in the NBA but much harder to rank them or choose a true number one (but yes, probably Lebron, though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Losing is not choking. Failing when your team depends on you is, though, and Lebron has done that on numerous occasions. I'm not necessarily against him. I want him to be a great player. He's just disappointing to watch sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
When fellow choke artist Derrick Rose comes back next year, he will be bumping one of these chumps.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Oh, we can also call Derrick a sandbagger and next year, when everyone's attacking him I'll wage a one man campaign to ensure the internet isn't slurring his good name.
The amount of flopping that is done these days, it's almost become second nature to do it, which to me means that almost all NBA coaches and assts. are instinctively teaching it in some manner in practice. If you look at how almost all of these players flop, it's almost always done with the same technique. Some of the more outrageous ones should be given academy awards but for the consistent ones you see, it's always the same way. Just get rid of the joke $5,000 Anti-Flop fine, and start giving Technicals or threaten Suspensions, then you'll see that crap end.
No. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Agreed. Technical fouls should be assessed in-game after a blatant flop, and one-game suspensions should follow suit if a very egregious flop is missed by the officials (which is quite often).Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthquake24
Your skills of argument are second to none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
I respect your thought on that, but a good player is made great (IMO) by his ability to work with his team. Working with your team is such a massive component of basketball (considering its a team sport). I got in a bit of an argument with a co-worker yesterday because he kept saying LeBron was the best player ever, and would say it was pointless to acknowledge how he worked with his fellow players. It is why Kobe fell short, he never could seemingly work well with his team mates. Jordan did have an amazing line-up to work with, but he also worked with them. Jordan could play in the clutch, could give it to someone and would, but also knew when he was the one that could do it, or the only one who could do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
To be fair I'm from Chicagoland so I may have a slight bias.
I don't think 'team player' is one of the first things people look for in the current age of judging the longevity of a NBA player's legacy. I think it can be used to judge many things about a player, but this league's perception is driven by marquee players dominating on the court. Perhaps some day, in fifty years, people will be judging the best players by a different set of criteria and the invariable Lebron comparisons wil come up, but because Lebron played in a superstar era of the NBA, that is how he will ultimately be judged.
The Spurs are a great team, but they are always getting little to no respect except when they bite deep into the playoffs. Then it's all 'Poppovich' this and 'Duncan that.' Nobody ever gives them credit for playing team oriented basketball. It's not because they aren't good. It's because they have a very old fashioned composition where everyone's lookking for human highlight reals.
Insofar as team mentality goes, the only thing you ever really hear is people say 'He made everyone around him better.' They did the same thing with MJ.
Your list of four other great players was legendary.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Four players that don't exist on your radar because you can't see them from inside Lebron's ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Those other four players are great because they either score as much or more than Lebron or help their team out as much or more than Lebron does, particularly in Tony Parker's case. Honestly though, you can't even compare players like Anthony and James anymore because Lebron's teammates give him so many more openings. If Anthony played with three NBA greats, who knows what he'd be doing (he's already dropping 40-50 a night like it's nothing)?
Chris Paul is my favorite flopper. He’s fun to watch and he's very dedicated to his craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Some good CP3 flops –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeRG5qHIxJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SOCNxCzb1I&feature=player_embedded
I honestly don't think I need to argue for LeBron being the (much) better player. The numbers and efficiency ratings alone should do the job. In regards to team success, no one's doing better right now either. With the Cavs, his teams had the best regular season record in the league for years, and he had very little help in achieving that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspoonrt
Carmelo does play with some rather good talent already. He went to the Knicks to have his own version of the Big Three, but he can't co-exist with other stars like LeBron can. He's also strictly a scorer, while LeBron can do it all.
I'd definitely say he's the best in the league. Ginobili and Derek Fisher are also great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Normdog
They also have great flopping in the college game:
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_as...emson_flop.gif
I know Anthony is on a pretty good team, lots of role players. Besides the ever-injured Stoudemire and Carmelo, who's the third member of New York's "Big Three," the 40-year-old, now-retired Jason Kidd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
Also, he's not strictly a scorer. Anthony rebounds and passes well (just not as well as Lebron).
2.8 APG this season is quite a bit worse than LeBron and a lot of other good small forwards in the league :kekeke:
Yes, that's true. He grabbed 6.9 rebounds per game, though, just slightly under Lebron who had 8.0 per game. Anthony also had less turnovers per game and a better free throw percentage, while averaging more points per game than Lebron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naiera
I'm not saying that Carmelo is definitively better than Lebron (this season or in general), just that there's an argument to be made for him and a few other NBA superstars.