North Korea was pretty tight, y'all

Not gonna lie, the quality of living was better than I expected. I know all the restaurants I went to were really nice and more than what the average citizen gets, but it's more than just that - I saw a lot of happy, smiling kids. That was my favorite part, just seeing the happy children playing in parks and shit.

Streets were busy with cars, and there was a lot of activity - always lots of people coming to and fro.

I'm just talking about Pyongyang, though. Outside of Pyongyang I only went to a few other cities, like Nampho and some other whose name I forget. There was only one time where we had to take a detour thru a back alley, and the tour guide told us not to take pictures. All the other foreigners were eating it up, but honestly...it just looked like a normal Chinese scene to me. I truly believe that if NK cut that 'no pictures' shit out and let the world see the real life, then maybe relations would be better.

I'm not a big fan of big walls of texts, so I'll try and keep in simple. I went during the birthday of Kim Jong Il and was in NK for eight days. I'll post one story here, and that was on KJI's birthday:

So we go to the mausoleum, and our cameras and coats are taken away. We're then put on a long moving walkway while a slow melody plays in the background. After a few minutes we move to another walkway, to a hall filled with nothing but pictures of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il. This goes on for maybe eight or so minutes.

The anticipation builds.

We get off the moving walkway and enter an absolutely huge room, real nice like. Again, more pictures of the leaders.

Finally, we arrive. I never knew what to expect, but we finally arrive in a massive, darkly lit room with a red tint. In the middle of the room is a glass case with Kim Jong Il's body inside. The most haunting music plays in the background as we all wait to bow to Kim. Our Korean tour guides cry a little.

After that, we enter a room filled with nothing but letters and honorary diplomas for Kim Jong Il. The whole time I was just kind of out of it, because the whole thing was surreal. The build up to seeing Kim's body was masterful.

A few more things, and advice to any future travelers:
1. Be loose. On the tour bus, all the tourists sat in the back while I sat up front with North Koreans. I talked to my North Korean guides more than the other tourists. I think both sides are a bit scared to start a conversation, so it's up to someone to break the ice. This also helped out big time, because I had told my guide I was an English teacher and when we went to a middle school, there was an English class...she nudged me in the arm when we got there and told me to teach them for a few minutes. A highlight. Ah! Another time, there was a mass dance going on. I asked my English guide if I could join him and he said, "Uh, no one's ever asked, you probably can't..." and then the North Korean guide was ecstatic and told me I could dance with them! Someone recorded me doing this, I'll see if they put it up on youtube. Again, you just have to be brave enough to be the first to ask and step outside your comfort zone.

2. Have respect. There were a few other annoying tourists who acted like complete assholes - this doesn't help mend relations between people and countries. I bowed in front of every Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung statue. I didn't want to, but I'm in North Korea, and that's what they do. On the last day, my Korean guide told me that if more Americans were like me, the world would be a better place. Coming from a North Korean where everyone hates America, this may be the highest compliment I'll ever receive in life.

3. Please for the love of god if anyone goes to North Korea, bring a few beers for the soldiers at the DMZ. I wanted to do this (woulda made for an awesome photo) but didn't buy any beers beforehand. I'm sure they would love it. My biggest regret of the trip.

The Korean people are strong and especially proud. Everyday I was reminded of the evils of the American empire (I even bought a newspaper, the Pyongyang Times, that decries America in the very funny editorials). I may not agree with the government, but I made a few friends with the people, and I promised to write them letters, which I'll do.

All in all, I took about 1,200 pictures, most of them of just daily life and buildings and the countryside. I've got about 200 on my facebook, but I'll post some favorites here:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...39810985_n.jpg
the tour guides went away for a while, I saw a soldier smiling at me so I went over and had some fun...we're all laughing
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...32168471_n.jpg
and then they look hard for the camera
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...55324411_n.jpg
in Kaesong City
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...09031888_n.jpg
again, tour guides went away, so lonesage had time to play.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...78145726_n.jpg
dancing in the mass dance
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...19035420_n.jpg
i made a classroom of north korean 14-15 year olds laugh. made me happy.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...17594139_n.jpg
ice skating rink...also went to a bowling alley, and there was a skate park nearby too.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...45015283_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...18853040_n.jpg
i bought a kimjongilia seed, the flower is quite beautiful, i hope my mother plants it...
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...85985010_n.jpg
these pictures of kim il sung and kim jong il are everywhere, on every block it seems...after a few days, i couldn't get their stupid fucking faces out of my head. but then, that's the point, isn't it.

Fuck anyone in advance who honestly believes absolutely everything and everyone was orchestrated, though. Anyone who believes that is just as biased as the North Koreans.

PS OrochiEddie, if you had never posted that Pyongyang Racer thread, I never would have looked at that tour web site, so I never would have looked up how to go to North Korea and then I never would have went to North Korea. I have you to thank for indirectly leading me to go to North Korea. For this, I have one postcard I bought from North Korea that I want to mail you. PM me your address.

PPS all the Chinese are unaware of the human rights violations and death camps of North Korea, but then again, a lot of them are unaware of the Holocaust...BUT, when I asked them how they couldn't know, my friend told me, "Do all the Americans know what the Japanese did to China in WWII?" Point well taken. Most Chinese view NK as a very poor country akin to China 50 to 60 years ago and nothing more.

PPS please ask me questions, I feel like there's so much to say but this post is way too long as-is

pm sent.

So jealous. Looks like a truly eye opening experience

All hail dear leader

Awesome read. I love that first pic; so much going on. I want to know what the girl looking away was thinking.

I like how NK was billed as soooo remote and off limits..... then we found out we could just book tours there.

Sounds like you had a BOSS time brotha. Nice pics too. Hopefully one day I would like to go.

NKSage, nice :-)

You said some tourists behaved like assholes, can you give some examples?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adderall

I like how NK was billed as soooo remote and off limits..... then we found out we could just book tours there.

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pretty sure you have to book them from inside china

wow. what an amazing looking trip.

thats just tremendous dude.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphagamer

NKSage, nice :-)

You said some tourists behaved like assholes, can you give some examples?

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The biggest offender was some eurodouche who didn't bow to Kim Jong Il's body in state. That was a remarkably rude thing to do. I don't know what his point was, but if you wanna make a stand or something, go to South Korea for that bullshit. A stunt like that only hurts the image of foreigners in North Koreans' minds.

There was another european guy who kept making a scene by not taking off his coat and hat when we went to a room at the International Friendship Exhibition to bow to a statue of Kim Il Sung. Again, if you don't want to respect another culture, why the fuck are you here? It irritated me just as much as the Koreans, because, again, acting like a tool does not help the image of foreigners...I talked about him with one of the tour guides in Chinese.

Another guy burst out laughing, again and again, when we went to the ostrich farm where we were told 1,000 ostriches lived. Incredibly immature to not keep your composure. Doesn't matter if what the guides tell you is bullshit or not, you shouldn't laugh in their faces about it.

Living in a part of China where I can go for months without seeing a foreigner where I live has made me more sensitive to how I behave. I realize that how I act represents not only me, but all foreigners - Americans, British, etc. I believe that going to North Korea, then, makes you a diplomat of sorts - how you handle yourself is how the Koreans will judge all foreigners. I was respectful the entire time and got some nice rewards out of it, natch.

The only time I really opened up and got to tell one of my guides how I truly felt was after our last dinner. I invited the Koreans to eat with us and then I ordered a few bottles of soju to get everyone relaxed. By the end of the night, one of the guides, a pretty lady, was liquored up. As we got on the bus, she grabbed me and whispered, 'Tell me about South Korea' (I had told her I visited Seoul for a few days last year). Even though I was a little drunk, I was still respectful and answered her question carefully and without coming off as insulting.

The Koreans are proud. They know their country isn't the richest. They know there's a food problem. There's no reason to blatantly tell them everything they've been told their entire life is a lie - it's like an athiest trying to tell a Christian that God isn't real. It requires a delicate touch.

I'm ranting now. Fuck I wanna go back to North Korea.

I danced Gangnam Style, btw. They didn't know Gangnam before. Now they do.

I'm of the opinion that the leadership of North Korea is shit nuts and are hell bent on initiating their own annihilation.

Cool pics tho.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hyper

I'm of the opinion that the leadership of North Korea is shit nuts and are hell bent on initiating their own annihilation.

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Well yeah of course. Everyday our guides told us how North Korea's biggest goal is reunification, how America is the only obstacle for that goal. They're oblivious that the leaders never want to reunify, because if they did, they know their government and power would crumble.

The best comparison would be to that short from the anime movie Memories, the segment where the country is fighting an unknown enemy, and everyday they fire a cannonball into nowhere. All this build up and hype for nothing. It's never going to happen.

Another geeky reference, I remember in Superman: TAS when Supes beat Darkseid, and then the citizens of Apokolips helped Darkseid up. Same deal in Korea. All these lies about Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, it doesn't matter what you tell them because they've been raised since childhood to believe all these lies. Kim Il Sung Square is not the third largest square in the world! But I'm not going to tell my tour guide that.

You're Dennis Rodman?!?

This was more informative than anything I've laid eyes on in recent memory with regards to NK.

yeah, its unfortunate that the population has to suffer because of the power & influence of a select, insane few. If only the entire country could be as vibrant, & well fed as Pyongyang appears to be. :crying:

Dear leader really wants to fire off his nukes and that won't end well..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hyper

annihilation.

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An unfortunate choice of words when you look at that pic of mild mannered soldiers taking their pic with Sage.
They, along with many others, will be on the receiving end of that "annihilation" and they don't look hell bent on initiating anything, much less that.

I'm pretty jealous though, and pissed with those arrogant tourists who should have stayed the fuck home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spoon

An unfortunate choice of words when you look at that pic of mild mannered soldiers taking their pic with Sage.
They, along with many others, will be on the receiving end of that "annihilation" and they don't look hell bent on initiating anything, much less that.

I'm pretty jealous though, and pissed with those arrogant tourists who should have stayed the fuck home.

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Man, you fucking get it.

Speaking Chinese was a great asset, as a lot of Koreans speak it as a second language, even if they're not proficient at it (and I'm not fluent either, so it worked out). What I gathered when I spoke with them was, yeah, they don't like America, but they have the same problems everyone has - wondering if they're going to have enough food on the table for their family, shit like that.

They're all just people. We're all humans in the end.

At the DMZ, a lot of tourists were getting their pictures taken with the soldiers, and I looked at the soldiers' faces, and I could tell they felt uncomfortable, like they were in a zoo. No one cared to talk to them, just a quick 'CAN I TAKE A PICTURE?' and that was that. I know how they felt. I wish I had gotten them something, again, like a few beers. I asked my guide if it was cool and he said sure, but I didn't buy any beers beforehand to take with me.

Because of that, I didn't ask to take a picture with them. They looked miserable and I'm not gonna force them to degrade themselves any further for some souvenir picture.

Luckily, at the flower exhibition, soldiers were everywhere, and I caught the eyes of a few who just stared, so instead of staring back or walking away, I walked towards them. How many people can say they approached North Koreans, much less North Korean soldiers? Christ, they can't be but just a few years younger than me, even. Everyone's so afraid of The Other Side that we forget we're all human and we're both curious of each other, regardless what we're told in the media.

I can't stress enough how important I think it is to just relax and show the North Koreans that not all westerners are evil, that we laugh and smile just like they do. Unfortunately, in my group I think I was the only one who pushed the boundary. Everyone else was content to stay within the group, take pictures of Koreans without asking and then walk away. They're not animals, for fuck sake.

A smile is the same in every language. I loved smiling at kids, adults, the elderly and then see them smile back at me. It's not a lot, but it does mean a lot, to me at least.

'Sage, this is an amazing thread. Thank you for posting it. I am so glad you shared your experiences with us.

This is swimming with dolphins type shit, or gorillas walking through your camp in Africa type stuff. Life changing.

And I totally agree with you about when to make stands and when to respect culture. Part of bridging cultural rifts is demonstrating a willingness to find common ground. You can't just go into a place like NK and start laying down law. That is generations of culture and behavior that, right or wrong, exists and must be approached responsibly.

Think of all the wars that could have been avoided if friendship and common ground were the true goals of diplomacy in the years leading up to conflict. Just think of the Civil War and of how many people, on both sides, didn't even want to fight and many of them shared the same views on things.

I don't normally like to share these kinds of views here because to me, this site is for video games and shenanigans, but how can I not share my thoughts when you post something like this?

I just have to say that your view and what you are sharing with us is amazing lonesage. when you said that all the Koreans have been raised to believe one thing or one lie it really isn't that different here. The media here portrays North Korea just as bad as they portray America there.

I also want to say that the picture with everyone by the fountain and all the flowers really is beautiful. You never see pictures or scenes like that on CNN, Times, etc. If they show anything it's always in a bad light without showing the real people around smiling and just being normal people. Thank you again for showing and sharing all of that and I look forward to reading more.

Were you there at the same time Rodman was there? I don't know if you've heard, but it's been all over the news here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoneSage

The biggest offender was some eurodouche who didn't bow to Kim Jong Il's body in state. That was a remarkably rude thing to do. I don't know what his point was, but if you wanna make a stand or something, go to South Korea for that bullshit. A stunt like that only hurts the image of foreigners in North Koreans' minds.

There was another european guy who kept making a scene by not taking off his coat and hat when we went to a room at the International Friendship Exhibition to bow to a statue of Kim Il Sung. Again, if you don't want to respect another culture, why the fuck are you here? It irritated me just as much as the Koreans, because, again, acting like a tool does not help the image of foreigners...I talked about him with one of the tour guides in Chinese

---

I know, seriously! From my experience the Europeans can be just as bad (if not worse) in practice than American tourists are stereotyped to be. I recently got into a serious argument with some French people because I asked them (politely) to take off their shoes when entering my place (because my kid's young, can't talk, but also licks the floor sometimes). They not only were outraged at my request, but they actually started getting personal about it and claimed "they were not some poor Cambodians" (LOL, wtf with that reference?) blah blah blah. The worst thing is how self-righteous about it they were. People complain that Americans can be blowhards, rah-rah go-America and certainly it's sometimes like that--but those people rarely, if ever, go abroad and Americans that do are often surprisingly sensitive about not being assholes (even when those same people are in the States). When Europeans do it they act all enlightened when they have as many race issues if not worse. Ugh, just terrible. That's not to say all Europeans are like that, of course, but holy hell.

It's irritating that people pay money so they can go to NK and insult people. It's like something an angsty teenager would do to "stick it to the man." There's no honor there, just stupidity. LOL, at this point in my life I probably would've barked at those people and ended up in the sort of hilarious position of defending North Korea.

Pretty interesting stuff, not sure if I would've gone there.
I wouldn't blame the people for the general weirdness of NK anyway, they don't really know any better I suppose.. Still, Pyongyang is hardly representing the country as a whole and the situation in the countryside is still supposed to be really bad.

As for the asshole tourists: living in a major tourist-attractive town I can confirm that there are assholes in every country, europoor, asian or murrikan...rude loud asshole who just come here to make fun of the medieval/gothic style buildings and crooked streets while remarking that "its better in our country!"
Fuck them, while bother coming here in the first place?

I totally got sidetracked on the way those tourists were acting and forgot to respond to the first post:

Amazing stuff, 'Sage, amazing. Every photo is just so great, I love that you were willing to take the initiative and just be friendly. It's amazing what that can do to reduce tension and relax a situation.

Meanwhile, walking around and smiling actually doesn't work in Russia... people think you're crazy in a bad way. My friend went to visit and some random woman actually went up to her in the street and started yelling at her for smiling and wearing a whimsical bear hat she'd bought in the US (something like this) until she realized she was American and not a Russian. People get genuinely pissed in Russia when you're not serious and dressed like you're a millionaire. It's all about facade.

Just curious, did you see any arcades/cabinets when you went?

Jon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aria

]. LOL, at this point in my life I probably would've barked at those people and ended up in the sort of hilarious position of defending North Korea.

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At the International Friendship Exhibition, which was a disgusting display of all the gifts Kim Jong Il received from people/countries around the world, one of the guys said out loud to me, with the Koreans right there, "They should have gave him a treadmill." He expected me to laugh, I guess, but instead I told him, "You're crazy, man" and just walked away.

That was the most I did, aside from speaking in Chinese with one of the guides about the asshole, the guy oblivious that I'm telling the Korean girl he's just trash who doesn't represent all foreigners.

edit: yes Jon, at the bowling alley there was an arcade on the second floor, unfortunately I didn't know until we were leaving that I spotted it! I was real disappointed, because I saw Daytona up there. Would have loved to play against some Koreans, would've been amazing. It seemed there were quite a few cabs there but unfortunately I didn't get a good look.

There was also an arcade at a diplomats' club, it had Outrun 2 and Ghost Squad. Unfortunately, since it was at a diplomats' club that means there weren't any Koreans to play with. EVEN WORSE is the audio wasn't working on the Outrun 2 cab, so I couldn't hear Splash Wave. oh well. got to play outrun 2 in north korea. good enough for me. I have a picture of it but I'm having trouble with my VPN so I can't get on facebook to copy paste the link.

I also have a lot of videos on youtube I uploaded. Here's two from my browser history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Py6...ature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MQyixS8uFI&list=UU9R7_LFL0uFwTtVhBYd86AQ& index=14

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aria

I recently got into a serious argument with some French people because I asked them (politely) to take off their shoes when entering my place (because my kid's young, can't talk, but also licks the floor sometimes). They not only were outraged at my request, but they actually started getting personal about it and claimed "they were not some poor Cambodians" (LOL, wtf with that reference?)

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I think because the french had colonies and large plantations and what not in cambodia in the 60's..? idk I'm only going by what I saw in Apocalypse Now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hyper

pretty sure you have to book them from inside china

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Yes, that is how you do it.


Hey Sage, did you see any instances of no electricity or things that may have been set up just for you? What about empty streets? Did you see the old US boat they captured?

I just watched the vice guide to NK last week and I wonder how much (or if anything) has changed since that was filmed....

there should be a new one coming out soon also, I think Vice traveled with Rodman as part of his entourage..

pretty psyched

wow, your brave. Inspirational. Thanks for sharing.

How tough was it for you to get everything setup for the trip?

A friend of mine that lived for about 6 years in China, and is hoping to go back to visit in the next year or so, has been talking to me about going to China with him. I've been pushing him to spend a little bit of that time in North Korea as I've always been interested in checking it out. Hopefully my Chinese will improve by then since you said that went a long way in helping you speak with people.

Since we have started talking more seriously about going, I've been looking at the KFA Travel info through the DPRK website. Looks like it will run about $3,000 - $4,000 for the trip, but it seems pretty comprehensive with a lot of great things to do. If you wouldn't mind sharing any first hand accounts on getting your trip planned that would be great! It seems pretty straight forward from what I see, but I hesitate to think it could really be that easy.

Those statues are massive. The pic came out real nice with the snow on them. Thanks for sharing dude. I could only imagine what it feels like to see Kim Jong Il's body like that. Probably comparable to seeing Lenin in the same state. Not often you get to see historic figures in this fashion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimerc21

This was more informative than anything I've laid eyes on in recent memory with regards to NK.

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I feel the same way. It looks like you had a great trip. I've never really had any desire to visit there before, but it looks like it could be really fun and interesting from reading about your experiences.

I imagine me not knowing either Chinese or Korean would be difficult though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoneSage

There was also an arcade at a diplomats' club, it had Outrun 2 and Ghost Squad. Unfortunately, since it was at a diplomats' club that means there weren't any Koreans to play with. EVEN WORSE is the audio wasn't working on the Outrun 2 cab, so I couldn't hear Splash Wave. oh well. got to play outrun 2 in north korea. good enough for me. I have a picture of it but I'm having trouble with my VPN so I can't get on facebook to copy paste the link.

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http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/GOT...ngArcades.html was it this one?

PS: Magical Sound Shower > Splash Wave

Epic thread Sage, with the kind of message that everyone should get exposed to more often...that we're all just people trying to scrounge up a little happiness for ourselves when we can.

Thanks for sharing; hope there's much more coming.

It sounds like an interesting trip LoneSage, and the pictures came out great, very glad that you are able to look beyond the headlines, the political rhetoric, to visit DPRK in order to see and think for yourself. It's a rare trait that I don't encounter often, even among "liberal" friends, so you are a special individual d00d.

IF you can add any suggestions for how to visit there please share. It is something I am hoping to plan for in the next couple years.

I always figured that the people of NK were like the people of Appalachia.

They know it's a hard life, but they do things the way they always been done because they don't know that there is anything better out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoneSage

Man, you fucking get it.

Speaking Chinese was a great asset, as a lot of Koreans speak it as a second language, even if they're not proficient at it (and I'm not fluent either, so it worked out). What I gathered when I spoke with them was, yeah, they don't like America, but they have the same problems everyone has - wondering if they're going to have enough food on the table for their family, shit like that.

They're all just people. We're all humans in the end.

At the DMZ, a lot of tourists were getting their pictures taken with the soldiers, and I looked at the soldiers' faces, and I could tell they felt uncomfortable, like they were in a zoo. No one cared to talk to them, just a quick 'CAN I TAKE A PICTURE?' and that was that. I know how they felt. I wish I had gotten them something, again, like a few beers. I asked my guide if it was cool and he said sure, but I didn't buy any beers beforehand to take with me.

Because of that, I didn't ask to take a picture with them. They looked miserable and I'm not gonna force them to degrade themselves any further for some souvenir picture.

Luckily, at the flower exhibition, soldiers were everywhere, and I caught the eyes of a few who just stared, so instead of staring back or walking away, I walked towards them. How many people can say they approached North Koreans, much less North Korean soldiers? Christ, they can't be but just a few years younger than me, even. Everyone's so afraid of The Other Side that we forget we're all human and we're both curious of each other, regardless what we're told in the media.

I can't stress enough how important I think it is to just relax and show the North Koreans that not all westerners are evil, that we laugh and smile just like they do. Unfortunately, in my group I think I was the only one who pushed the boundary. Everyone else was content to stay within the group, take pictures of Koreans without asking and then walk away. They're not animals, for fuck sake.

A smile is the same in every language. I loved smiling at kids, adults, the elderly and then see them smile back at me. It's not a lot, but it does mean a lot, to me at least.

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Somehow, you turned out pretty OK. Who'd have thought. This whole experience, living in China, teaching... It's making you a pretty incredible person, Sage. Much respect.

How about if we make tourists get on a knee do that cross thing and blow kisses to Jesus? I don't see much of a difference myself. Yeah tourists can be assholes but if that's the worst they did sounds like a decent group. Badass though Sage.

Isn't Korea one of those asiatic cultures where people bow to each other?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hyper

yeah, its unfortunate that the population has to suffer because of the power & influence of a select, insane few.

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What makes you think that they are insane? They are fucking rich beyond all fucking measures. They know what they are doing.

Awesome stuff Sage, thanks for sharing!

Ditto on Bobak's post. Russians don't like weird happy people, you need to fit in and look miserable. Heck that even applies to a Russian market area in San Francisco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adderall

Hey Sage, did you see any instances of no electricity or things that may have been set up just for you? What about empty streets? Did you see the old US boat they captured?

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Yes, everyday at a restaurant there would be a blackout. Sometimes for a few minutes, but during the last dinner the power was out for a very long time.
The streets were NEVER empty, in fact there were a surprisingly large number of cars. Depending on the color of the license plate, the cars were either for some government official, the army or personal owned. I never saw a personal car (yellow license plate), but then again, I never actively looked for one. Others said they saw one or two, though. Some of the cars were new, some of them were old):
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...45991408_n.jpg
I'm not a car guy but there were a lot of cars similar to this model.
I didn't get to see the USS Pueblo, I think it's closed until the summer. There were some other things on the tour that got moved around, like we didn't shoot guns at the gun range, we didn't get to see some king's tomb, when we got at the taekwondo place nobody was there (except girls, but I was bummed, because I wanted to spar with a North Korean) and we didn't go to the Schoolchildren's Palace. These things weren't really my tour company's fault, though, so I can't blame them. Instead we visited a water bottling plant, an ostrich farm, a middle school and an embroidery studio.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IoriYagami n8

How tough was it for you to get everything setup for the trip?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

IF you can add any suggestions for how to visit there please share. It is something I am hoping to plan for in the next couple years.

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It was super easy for me. I don't want to sound like a shill, but I went with Young Pioneers. Most of the people in YP were in their early-mid 20s ( at 25, I was one of the oldest, aside from another guy who was 50). I'm really glad I wound up with that tour group, because they were really fun. Every night back at the Yanggakdo Hotel they'd go drinking, some of them not going to bed until 2AM or later. It was a great group compared to the other groups of people, who looked quite mild and boring.

Anyways, I paid them close to 1,000 Euros, e-mailed them a passport-styled photo and then met them at the airport. Supereasy for me. I already live in China and have a Chinese visa and live close to Beijing, so that was it for me.

Awesome pictures and stories Sage. It's great seeing it at a different point of view. Anytime I've seen footage of North Korea the people are always playing to the camera. It feels like there's somebody behind the camera that's jotting down everything they say or do to report them if they get out of line.

There's a National Geographic documentary on Netflix called "Inside North Korea" with Lisa Ling that I watched last year. In the doc, they had a film crew that followed this doctor that provided cataract surgery to needy people in 3rd world countries. So they were able to follow the doctor as well as the people he treated. Towards the end, they gather up all of people that he did the surgery on to take their bandages off so that they could see again. One girl they did the procedure on hadn't seen her parrents in over a decade. It was really touching seeing her face tear up and cry when she saw her mother and father again, but..they had to play to the camera. In the room, like like the picture of Sage in the school, they have two pictures of the Ill's. Every person had to stand in front of the pictures and praise the Dear Leader like he preformed the surgery himself. One elderly man shouted out, "With God as my witness! I shall pick up a rifle and kill every American I see!" Pretty weird stuff and worth checking out.

Also, those arcade pictures were pretty cool. Of course they had to rip off "USA" on the Daytona cab, which makes me wonder if the title screen in the actual game was changed. Kinda reminded me of going to the Excalibur in Vegas where they covered up all the Japanese logos on the machines.

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Originally Posted by LoneSage

Yes, everyday at a restaurant there would be a blackout. Sometimes for a few minutes, but during the last dinner the power was out for a very long time.
The streets were NEVER empty, in fact there were a surprisingly large number of cars. Depending on the color of the license plate, the cars were either for some government official, the army or personal owned. I never saw a personal car (yellow license plate), but then again, I never actively looked for one. Others said they saw one or two, though. Some of the cars were new, some of them were old):
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...45991408_n.jpg
I'm not a car guy but there were a lot of cars similar to this model.
I didn't get to see the USS Pueblo, I think it's closed until the summer. There were some other things on the tour that got moved around, like we didn't shoot guns at the gun range, we didn't get to see some king's tomb, when we got at the taekwondo place nobody was there (except girls, but I was bummed, because I wanted to spar with a North Korean) and we didn't go to the Schoolchildren's Palace. These things weren't really my tour company's fault, though, so I can't blame them. Instead we visited a water bottling plant, an ostrich farm, a middle school and an embroidery studio.





It was super easy for me. I don't want to sound like a shill, but I went with Young Pioneers. Most of the people in YP were in their early-mid 20s ( at 25, I was one of the oldest, aside from another guy who was 50). I'm really glad I wound up with that tour group, because they were really fun. Every night back at the Yanggakdo Hotel they'd go drinking, some of them not going to bed until 2AM or later. It was a great group compared to the other groups of people, who looked quite mild and boring.

Anyways, I paid them close to 1,000 Euros, e-mailed them a passport-styled photo and then met them at the airport. Supereasy for me. I already live in China and have a Chinese visa and live close to Beijing, so that was it for me.

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Did you need the Visa? I mean, if I just booked the trip and flew into Beijin it'd be all the same no?

Awesome. North Korea is at the top of my list for places I'd like to visit, just to see it for myself. It is an interesting place, that is for sure.

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Originally Posted by norton9478

Isn't Korea one of those asiatic cultures where people bow to each other?



What makes you think that they are insane? They are fucking rich beyond all fucking measures. They know what they are doing.

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the deification of their leader(s), the terrible mismanagement of natural resources, the enslavement of generations born in prison camps, the anti-American propaganda based belief system..

Take the mass games for example.. consider the amount of resources poured into what amounts to an utterly useless spectacle, when those same resources could be allocated toward improving the quality of life for eveyone not living in Pyongyang. If they knew what they were doing there would not be millions of North Koreans on the verge of starvation.

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Originally Posted by hyper

the deification of their leader(s), the terrible mismanagement of natural resources, the enslavement of generations born in prison camps, the anti-American propaganda based belief system..

Take the mass games for examples.. consider the amount of resources poured into what amounts to an utterly useless spectacle, when those same resources could be allocated toward improving the quality of life for eveyone not living in Pyongyang. If they knew what they were doing there would not be millions of North Koreans on the verge of starvation.

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Agreed.

Full respect to Sage's report here and the way the whole experience was approached, sounds like the best way to get as much out of it as possible.

At the same time though it's easy to fall into the trap of respecting other's cultures to the point of losing the ability to question and challenge them. For example in time spent with africans I grow pretty tired of being told not to try to impose western ideologies on a third world society as I am unable to understand the differences. When it comes to starvation, enslavement, forced abortion, ritual killings and even genocide, you don't need to understand the nuances of a culture to be justified in speaking out.

I agree that all foreigners that visit NK should think of themselves as diplomats of a sort, but don't forget that the role of a diplomat is not to make friends but to coerce change. The making friends part is just to make it easier for the diplomat to affect the change.

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Originally Posted by hyper

the deification of their leader(s), the terrible mismanagement of natural resources, the enslavement of generations born in prison camps, the anti-American propaganda based belief system..

Take the mass games for examples.. consider the amount of resources poured into what amounts to an utterly useless spectacle, when those same resources could be allocated toward improving the quality of life for eveyone not living in Pyongyang. If they knew what they were doing there would not be millions of North Koreans on the verge of starvation.

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The leadership isn't starving, nor are their any real threats to the power structure.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/GOT...ngArcades.html was it this one?

PS: Magical Sound Shower > Splash Wave

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Here's the photo on his FB:

http://i.imgur.com/QgZRsgo.jpg

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

Did you need the Visa? I mean, if I just booked the trip and flew into Beijin it'd be all the same no?

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You need a Visa to visit China and I assume the same for NK. For China you need to have that all squared away at a consulate before you leave for there.

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Originally Posted by aria

Here's the photo on his FB:

http://i.imgur.com/QgZRsgo.jpg

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Heh. They re-arranged it a bit though.

Awesome photos.

I've watched a National Geographic documentary on North Korea and it's kind of scary, to be honest. But I'm really glad you went in and showed another point of view. I'm damn proud of you, 'Stage.