The state of music today

Henry Rollins is right. It's all Pro-Tools and vocal pitching. Mainstream music is dead. The Taylor Swifts and Justin Biebers have killed it. It's all about the money, not creating something original. I can't think of any artists that are remotely mainstream that I consider to be honestly talented musicians. Jack White is the one person that jumps to mind as a truly talented musician that is recognizable in the mainstream. He's an artist and I get what he's doing. I have been listening to a lot of older blues recordings. It's stripped down to the basics, reflects talent, and is mind blowing when compared to the junk the record labels are mass producing.

/Rant

Discuss.....

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Originally Posted by Neo Ash

Henry Rollins is right. It's all Pro-Tools and vocal pitching. Mainstream music is dead. The Taylor Swifts and Justin Biebers have killed it. It's all about the money, not creating something original. I can't think of any artists that are remotely mainstream that I consider to be honestly talented musicians. Jack White is the one person that jumps to mind as a truly talented musician that is recognizable in the mainstream. He's an artist and I get what he's doing. I have been listening to a lot of older blues recordings. It's stripped down to the basics, reflects talent, and is mind blowing when compared to the junk the record labels are mass producing.

/Rant

Discuss.....

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its been gone longer than that.

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Originally Posted by cdamm

its been gone longer than that.

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Yup...I'd say a good 15 years plus. It's sad.

who fucking cares. So many great artists are making music now. Some of the best stuff was never popular. Dig through the record bins and go to shows.

All that happened is big music companies realized the general population knows squat about music as an art form and have taken advantage of that.

I'm just on a pissed off rant.

My 14 year old self is saying, "yeah, dude!" My now self is asking... Are you just realizing this?

Of the newer stuff, I listen to Silversun Pickups. They remind me of Smashing Pumpkins alot. Other than them I stick to classical and oldschool hip-hop. Top 40 radio definitely isn't my thing.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

My 14 year old self is saying, "yeah, dude!" My now self is asking... Are you just realizing this?

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Hell no. This thread was prompted after finding nothing but pure shit on the radio.

I'm fairly removed from the pop garbage; I listen to a lot of blues, jazz, etc on vinyl. A search across the the FM radio reminds me just how much most music sucks today.

It's just all cookie cutter stuff, whatever studio crap they can whip up real fast and package cheaply, pop concerts are nothing more than a choreographed puppet show for the fans that simply want entertainment. Look at the shit shows on TV for an example as well.

No pro tools... No vocal pitching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sHCCaP0dAE

LOL, like mainstream music was ever good... That shit they used to play on the radio and you loved as a kid? Yeah, there were people sitting around asking who the hell could listen to that shit. There's a grand tradition in music, and especially radio, to force-feed what nobody really wants to hear. This isn't new. This didn't start 15 years ago. There's just as good underground/indie/whatever you want to call it music being made today as there was 40, 50, 60 years ago as well.

Pop music has never been worse. Some truly disturbing trends in music these days make me weep for the future. I haven't bought anything in the past few years that wasn't made by MF Doom or MadLib or related artists. It's a fucked state of affairs when bands like Broke'n'cyde are making it, meanwhile absurdly talented people like Asheru remain vastly unheard, and albums like Madseason's "Above" will probably never see another release.

Fuck you America.......Fuck you!

Honestly, mainstream shit was always bad. In Ontario the radio stations are so broke they play nothing but free public domain shit (ie: "classics) from the 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s and today...and no decade was without its shitty, empty pablum. And make no mistake, that shit was WAY "cool" back in it's day.

I'd have to echo OrochiEddies sentiments and say there's plenty of great shit out there from all over the world ...from genres old and new....that's why we have youtube.

Turn off your radio, rip songs from youtube, put them on an ipod, and install an aux input on your car. Problem solved.

Preaching to the choir. And I don't think any pop fans care enough or are emotionally invested enough in their music to fight back and say "XYZ band has artistic integrity."

There's no conflict, so why even talk about it? It's not like there's some war between mainstream and non-mainstream music. Justin Beiber leaves Every Time I Die alone and Between the Buried and Me leaves Taylor Swift alone.

And it's not like the record companies are doing anything different than before. Bands have just smartened up and realized that the chances of success on a major label are very very slim. And technology has become advanced and affordable enough that musicians can record on their own. Major labels are a glorified, greasy bank. They are completely irrelevant to almost anyone with artistic integrity and a knack for self-promotion.

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Originally Posted by Spoon

Honestly, mainstream shit was always bad. In Ontario the radio stations are so broke they play nothing but free public domain shit (ie: "classics) from the 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s and today...and no decade was without its shitty, empty pablum. And make no mistake, that shit was WAY "cool" back in it's day.

I'd have to echo OrochiEddies sentiments and say there's plenty of great shit out there from all over the world ...from genres old and new....that's why we have youtube.

Turn off your radio, rip songs from youtube, put them on an ipod, and install an aux input on your car. Problem solved.

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rip songs off youtube?

Oh god no.
The sound quality man...the sound quality!

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

rip songs off youtube?

Oh god no.
The sound quality man...the sound quality!

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there are some bright spots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjpo5_aC9XE

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Originally Posted by Spoon

Honestly, mainstream shit was always bad.

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I can count the number of major label releases I've bought in the last five years on one hand. That said, I disagree. Taste varies, but I don't think you can say Michael Jackson, The Police, Prince, Duran Duran, Tears for Fears, etc were bad.

80's and 90's forever!!!

You can find almost any album regardless of how obscure on file upload sites like rapidshare etc.. compressed in .rar

There's so many folks who have music blogs where they upload their favorite albums. Google is all you need.

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Originally Posted by fakeXsound

I can count the number of major label releases I've bought in the last five years on one hand. That said, I disagree. Taste varies, but I don't think you can say Michael Jackson, The Police, Prince, Duran Duran, Tears for Fears, etc were bad.

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Agreed, I'd say up to the late 80s, the "mainstream" artists were of a much higher quality and actually had talent. Nowadays with the increase in technology it is easy to make any pretty face a pop star.

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Originally Posted by cdmann

there are some bright spots.

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no, what I meant is the sound quality on a youtube file is already not great, but then to rip it is even worse. I think its like 128kbps type quality.

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

rip songs off youtube?

Oh god no.
The sound quality man...the sound quality!

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How is that any different than recording shit to cassette from the radio back in the day? Ever made a cassette recording from a cassette recording from a cassette recording? Early music sharing, fo sho!

I feel Neo Ash, though. I've filtered through couple "pop" stations here in Portland. I had enough of them playing Taylor Swift, Justin Beiber, Nikki Minaj (still a fucking joke). I now listed to an alternative station; loving Silversun Pickups, The Black Keys, and other great bands.

No offense... Kind of... But, since the day I registered at this site, I've always looked across the forums and thought you all basically had shit taste in music. :emb:

Yeah mainstream music is at an all time low, but the amount of good independent music is a an all time high.

The internet is like an unending easter egg hunt of awesome music.

It also help to know how to look for good music. Take your favorite bands/artists find out who else is on their label, find out who influenced them etc. You are guaranteed to keep finding awesome stuff like a Bust A Move chain reaction.

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Originally Posted by fakeXsound

I can count the number of major label releases I've bought in the last five years on one hand. That said, I disagree. Taste varies, but I don't think you can say Michael Jackson, The Police, Prince, Duran Duran, Tears for Fears, etc were bad.

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Haha, and for every one of those classic releases, there was an absolute barrel of drivel to follow it up. I'm not trying to sound like an old geezer here, but if you were alive when Michael was still making good music, and Prince and the Police were still dropping new albums, then you know what I mean. As someone who actually grew up and was alive for all of the 80s, I can promise you there was a LOT of shit released back then as well. Thing is, only the good survives the test of time. The cut-outs don't get played on VH1 Classics, or the R&B stations, or the classic rock rounds. Same thing with books, movies, and etc. It's no surprise that the good stuff stays in circulation, but you're talking about outliers of bygone eras. What about the millions of other releases from those same periods?

Everything bad about modern mainstream music is what's made mainstream music bad for the last sixty years.

If you don't believe me, I can prove it.

Also, Henry Rollins is a moron who fell out of touch sometime in the early eighties.

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

who fucking cares. So many great artists are making music now. Some of the best stuff was never popular. Dig through the record bins and go to shows.

All that happened is big music companies realized the general population knows squat about music as an art form and have taken advantage of that.

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pretty much. I don't know what mainstream is.

Question is, who is going to actually pay for the music?

Mainstream does what it does best; keep the current going. Don't underestimate mainstream though, it is mainstream for a reason and it's not without it's merits, if anything someone made up something catchy enough to hook enough ears. Mainstream entertainment evolves right on par with society otherwise it wouldn't be mainstream but I think I'm preaching to the choir here.

At the end of all things, music is just entertainment, nothing more...

Mainstream music is the same as it's always been: A few tiny gems swirling in a centrifuge of shit.

Difference being we have digital music spread through numerous free avenues. Essentially the proverbial back of some dude's van with all the indie flavors you could handle. For me music is better than it has ever been.

You want to talk about loved music? Soul? Gumption? Yea The Civil Wars are just one of hundreds of bands who've got that in spades:



Oh and some Pomplamoose for good measure:



Bottom line, you've got a style of music you like, merely go online and take your pick.

I don't care for the pop music biz as an industry, it's little more than a giant reproduction machine that churns out streamlined products that can be easily sold and consumed.

However, stuff like Pro-Tools or Autotune are just that - tools. It's the people using them who are to blame, and those who buy their shit and keep on feeding the biz ad infinitum.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzytaco

Pop music has never been worse.

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While the top-40 stuff today is rendered "safe" for mass-consumption, which makes for bland, uncreative, and, ultimately unmemorable music, arguably the mid-70's to very early-80's was the absolute nadir for commercial pop music.

I'm not talking the golden age of rock, metal, funk, or other innovative genres that were in their genesis during that period like metal, punk, rap, electronica; I.E. the stuff people want to remember, but truly godawful shit pop music. While I hate modern pop and avoid listening to it when I can now, I would be ASHAMED to admit to listening to, much less liking, the absolute aural-fecal-catastrophe of songs of that era.

THE HORROR....

I must disagree respectfully with Henry Rollins's pessimistic outlook. Look beyond the shores and you'll find all kinds of interesting stuff. Music used to follow the paths of human migration, but now all you need is an internet connection and a computer to inspire someone from thousands of miles away.
Some people like all ages shows and some people like an extravaganza. Both can exist in the real world.

As long as humans decide not to hunker down and look inwards, music (and all other forms of creativity) will continue to evolve and inspire.

can't say the last time I listened to the radio

Do people really care about talent in music? I'm actually asking. I've listened to punk rock since I was a kid, so if the passion or inspiration was there, I turned a... deaf ear...(?) to the lack of talent. It just doesn't matter to me.

Also, Henry Rollins talks like everything he says is a fucking golden nugget of wisdom. And... People basically treat him that way.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

Also, Henry Rollins talks like everything he says is a fucking golden nugget of wisdom. And... People basically treat him that way.

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i like the guy

he's a bit self-important but i tend to agree with his line of logic on most things:

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Originally Posted by kidpanda

pop concerts are nothing more than a choreographed puppet show for the fans that simply want entertainment.

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I'm ok with that:D

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/...eration/G2.gif

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Originally Posted by Neo Ash

Hell no. This thread was prompted after finding nothing but pure shit on the radio.

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that's your problem right there

Why would you want to listen to music on the radio?

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Originally Posted by SNKorSWM

Question is, who is going to actually pay for the music?

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no one, at this stage in the game recorded music is promotion for live shows

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Originally Posted by Mugicha

I'm ok with that:D

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/...eration/G2.gif

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YES! Just like America, Korea and Japan will just manufacture talent and force them down people. Granted some of the members of Girls Generation are talented but you got some K-pop groups that try to copy off of each other! Everyone here wants to be like Big Bang, GG, Wonder Girls, Super Junior, Hyuna, etc. The record labels will scout out talent that is young and make them become marketable. It's funny, Psy made "Gangnam Style" to exploit Korea's fascination with exploiting young children and acting like they're bougie and better than everyone.

In Japan, they have an idol group with 48 (probably more or less) members. When I was in Tokyo last week, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing AKB48. That's overkill! I don't know a single person that can name EVERY member of that group. In the 70s and 80s in America, every member in a big group served a purpose (look at Earth, Wind & Fire, Midnight Star, and Atlantic Starr for example).

Manufactured groups and music is easy to maintain these days. We're in a society where we like to take the easy way out of doing what takes talent and years of practice. I'm sure this has been going on for decades but we're at a point where mainstream is BnB instead of talent with something to say being noticed.

I LOVE hip hop and so many folks like Asheru, Phonte, Murs, Nitty Scott MC, Jean Grae, Immortal Technique, Zo!, Sound Providers, Collective Efforts and various others are getting no love. Lupe Fiasco is mainstream but he has an underground feel. Makes me wonder why people haven't gone out of their way to make sure he gets killed or something. I say this because the talented artists I mentioned all have something to say. The suits know they are dangerous to the industry; it goes against what they promote. If that music became widespread, their target audience wouldn't have that mindset of swag and YOLO and they would do things like read books, watch intelligent programming, get an education, and grow spiritually and mentally.

I miss real singers and musicians. Esmerelda Spalding is the only well known musician out there these days. Too bad there arn't more.

The industry is always going to have its Nikkis, Taylors and Justins. The 'idea' of them will always exist, be exploited and pushed on the consuming masses. Looking at it in this way, I can't have any rage about the music biz.

Breaking news: People becoming aware that mainstream music might actually not be good.

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Originally Posted by Ajax

Do people really care about talent in music? I'm actually asking. I've listened to punk rock since I was a kid, so if the passion or inspiration was there, I turned a... deaf ear...(?) to the lack of talent. It just doesn't matter to me.

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They might not be great guitarists, bassists, drummers, or vocalists, but they right songs you like right? I'd call that talent. I've met a lot of different people who can play one or more instruments very well, but can't write a half way decent song. I see what you're saying, and I do agree that I don't necessarily care how well someone can play, but I do have to like their songs want to listen to it. Probably why love punk music, and usually can't stand Prog-rock. Prog-rock just seems like a bunch of musicians showing off, and it usually sounds dumb.

Quick side note: Where the hell should people go to find out what new music is good? I used to find a lot of cool new stuff on oink.cd, but now that that's been gone (for years) it's much harder for me to stumble upon new music that I don't hate.

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Originally Posted by Tung Fu ru

Quick side note: Where the hell should people go to find out what new music is good? I used to find a lot of cool new stuff on oink.cd, but now that that's been gone (for years) it's much harder for me to stumble upon new music that I don't hate.

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i can't even list the number of amazing and obscure bands i've come to love from using Spotify and selecting Radio or browsing Related Artists

Surely all of this is just a matter of perspective. Look at when Elvis was starting out, a lot of people didn't think that was music. And the same with people before them. It will always happen, it will happen to people in the future. But then again, people might think I'm wrong; its all about perspective and opinion.

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Originally Posted by Markell1991

Surely all of this is just a matter of perspective. Look at when Elvis was starting out, a lot of people didn't think that was music. And the same with people before them. It will always happen, it will happen to people in the future. But then again, people might think I'm wrong; its all about perspective and opinion.

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Jesus christ.

Here's my opinion:

Music industry has changed by focusing back on the singles format that was popular with pop music before LPs became popular. The concept of the "album" became popular during the 60s and were still popular for the most part until the early-mid 90s. Back in those days you had two limitations with the LP format: About 20-22 minutes per side of a record and a 40-45ish max playing time per album. With those two limitations you had to be careful on whats on your album. You could have a good selling 45 single but if your LP sucks then you won't make as much money as a top selling LP would.

I think with that in mind you do see artists back in those days putting tons of effort on making a quality album. With the CD format becoming popular in the 1980s gone are the per side time limit and you now have a max playing time of about 70-80 minutes. Per many albums that I listened to the 90s, the artist were taking advantage of the CD format and have about 70-80 minutes of songs on their album CD. With that the quality control of a good album IMO went down. Artist are just filling up with songs just so they have enough minutes for an album. Now this is not for every artist in the 90s, plenty of them were doing it.

With the birth of iTunes and downloadable music we are going back to the singles market pre-LP times. For most pop artist there's no need for them to make an album when their singles could make tons of money nowadays. Even the general public don't really care too much about the album nowadays, they just want the singles.


Personally I'm an album music lover. I'm not a fan of singles songs at all. I never purchase anything off iTunes and I never will buy anything off iTunes. I get most of my stuff at the local record stores and Amazon Marketplace/eBay. Most of the stuff that I buy are 60s-80s stuff because albums were the big thing during those times and for the most part I prefer how they recorded their albums back in those days. Nowadays I only buy CDs and I been getting the mostly good sounded 80s press CDs for no more than $5 a pop. Back in those days they just took a good sounded stereo tape and convert it to digital. So there's no compression and heavy EQs like with the "remasters" albums of the 90s. Nowadays it doesn't cost a whole lot to get a good sounding setup that can make most CDs sound terrific.

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Originally Posted by TurboRotary13b

No pro tools... No vocal pitching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sHCCaP0dAE

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I whole-heartedly approve of this post.

I've worked in both commercial, and public radio.

This rant of Rollins' isn't new...there has been a glut of bubblegum content since the dawn of broadcasting.

People complaining about, "nothing good out there" need to stop waiting to be spoon-fed.

Use pandora. Read the local free/city paper, to find shows. Go to shows. Scoop items from the merch table. Explore other artist(s) on the same label, or offered from the distro of said label.

Use google to find free format, non-commercial radio stations (community & college radio). Drexel University's 91.7, and Southern Humboldt's KMUD are great places to start.

Just as the social ills of the world (killings, accidents, wars, fill in the blank w/ shitty news item of your choice) have ALWAYS been happening, there has ALWAYS been a broke dick media machine.

In the 21st century, it just SEEMS worse...like there is 'more of' (in regards to both bad news and bad music) because the hyper connected, macro sized content delivery systems have shrunk the world...concentrating the potency of 'bad' and 'good' stuffs.

Just because 2chainz is rhyming over a Kanye track, doesn't mean you have to listen. Go find the John Robinson record ('Who is This Man?') that MFDoom did all the beats for.

Fuckin' Rollins. He sure wasn't complaining about mainstream media when MTV pushed 'liar' & 'Low Self Opinion' to the moon, helping the Rollins Band debut LP chart at 160, and the Weight LP to 36! No Black Flag record he was on ever charted.

tl;dr...support college & community radio.

as the others are saying, avoid mainstream all together. if it's something you hear on the radio, television, most movies & even video games... it's crap.

the only worthwhile music that's actually made from genuine talent is the stuff you have to put some effort into and search for. whether it's rock, hip hop, electronic, etc... it's all going to be indie/underground stuff where you'll find your gems.