Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn beta sign ups, Opening CG

it's literally a new mmorpg that remakes XIV's world, graphics engine, and gameplay foundations.

It's not 1.x with a new title slapped on the cover.

New team,
new focus,
new engine,
remade design,
new producer since post 1.0 launch that understands mmorpgs past and present,
community input,
new course in the right direction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h542YbZuwkQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h542YbZuwkQ

Lodestone updates
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/index.html

Letter from Producer XLI

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59783

blog
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/post/167

facebook
https://www.facebook.com/FinalFantasyXIV

Beta Sign Ups (PS3 version is during Phase 3)
NA: http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/na
EU: http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/eu/

Gonna bomb again, MMOs don't get second chances.

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Originally Posted by saner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h542YbZuwkQ

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That dragon is my hero for smoking all those cosplayer weeaboos while they were larping outside of city limits.

Honestly though, this doesn't look too bad....if it wasn't an MMO I probably would have checked it out.
But with working, eating, sleeping, fucking, etc. that most adults get tied up with there's hardly any time for it. Kind of a drag because this one seems to capture the style of several FFs that I actually liked back in the day....but their recent non-mmo titles just....rub me the wrong way. I can't quite put my finger on it...

It's amazing how much I:

A- don't give a single shit about MMORPGs...

B- lost interest in anything with the "Final Fantasy" name on it years go.

I used to consider Final Fantasy to be the premiere RPG franchise...now they just poop out shitty, overly complicated systems with shitty plots and anime fanboy graphics. Sad really as I used to really look forward to them...now I couldn't care less.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

Gonna bomb again, MMOs don't get second chances.

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There can be exceptions.

Also if there is one flaw in the industry, is people's closed minded attitude of dwelling in the past,
and assumption that broken things can't be fixed.

Enough money, dedication and the right people leading the mmorpg can fix things and redeem themselves into a brand new MMORPG that
is worth playing and paying for.

Also FFXIV ARR is literally a new MMORPG since it's being built from the ground up.

It may borrow assets from the previous version, but saying FFXIV ARR is the same thing as FFXIV 1.0
is like saying Resident Evil Remake is the exact "same thing" as RE1.

or Street Fighter Third Strike is the "same thing" as Double Impact.

or KOF XIII being labeled and reviewed as the "same bare bones and rushed unfinished product like KOF XII". :D

but FFXIV ARR is more than a remake or sequel, it's the rebirth of an MMORPG.

So people should evaluate its beta and judge its launch with a clean slate. That's what any intelligent gamer would do. :)

:)

Saner do you make any threads that aren't sucking a games dick?

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

Saner do you make any threads that aren't sucking a games dick?

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If I call my dick a "game" will he suck it? I'm a bit hard up over here...

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Originally Posted by saner

There can be exceptions.

Also if there is one flaw in the industry, is people's closed minded attitude of dwelling in the past,
and assumption that broken things can't be fixed.

Enough money, dedication and the right people leading the mmorpg can fix things and redeem themselves into a brand new MMORPG that
is worth playing and paying for.

Also FFXIV ARR is literally a new MMORPG since it's being built from the ground up.

It may borrow assets from the previous version, but saying FFXIV ARR is the same thing as FFXIV 1.0
is like saying Resident Evil Remake is the exact "same thing" as RE1.

or Street Fighter Third Strike is the "same thing" as Double Impact.

or KOF XIII being labeled and reviewed as the "same bare bones and rushed unfinished product like KOF XII". :D

but FFXIV ARR is more than a remake or sequel, it's the rebirth of an MMORPG.

So people should evaluate its beta and judge its launch with a clean slate. That's what any intelligent gamer would do. :)

:)

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So why didn't they do it right in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

So why didn't they do it right in the first place?

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Short answers?

Dev time was crawling too slow, S-E wanted that monthly subscription money to come in, it was set to launch before WoW: Cataclysm and further delays threatened to postpone the release date.

So instead of doing it right, they shot themselves in the foot.

FF XIV stands as the most colossal failure in the history of video games, IMO. Worse than Duke Nukem Forever. Yoichi Wada, president of S-E, actually admitted that the game's poor quality tarnished the brand name.

But having said all that, the game got great in February 2K12. And subscriptions actually went up when they went back to a pay model. And there are a lot of people that only own PS3s that will give the game a try.

I think its myopic to judge people for being realistic about its chances. Saner's contention that 'people shouldn't judge the new game by the old' is just blind optimism. People are going to be very scrutinizing on this game.

And even if it succeeds and is everything people hope for, MMOs are just operating under a different business model than they were when S-E decided to even make FF XIV.

My prediction: it will have a loyal subscriber base, just like XI did. It won't dethrone WoW because nothing can dethrone WoW but the player base will be generally awesome to play with, just like XI was.

I don't even know why companies are still making MMOs on this oversaturated market. Look at the past three years and all the MMOs that failed to meet everybodies expection and sales.. SWTOR, Rift, Warhammer, DC Universe, Conan, Vanguard a few years back etc. (with SWTOR being the worst offender), even GW2 didn't do that well and The Secret World failed too despite offering a somewhat different experience in gameplay. LotRO is one excpetion that actually got more players after switching business models. As long as WoW is still running nothing's gonna change that. FFXIV was made by people who clearly had no idea what they were doing and all the outsourcing to china probably didn't help too.

They should invest the money and development time into something else. They also need to stop making FF13-based games.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

I don't even know why companies are still making MMOs on this oversaturated market. Look at the past three years and all the MMOs that failed to meet everybodies expection and sales.. SWTOR, Rift, Warhammer, DC Universe, Conan, Vanguard a few years back etc. (with SWTOR being the worst offender), even GW2 didn't do that well and The Secret World failed too despite offering a somewhat different experience in gameplay. LotRO is one excpetion that actually got more players after switching business models. As long as WoW is still running nothing's gonna change that. FFXIV was made by people who clearly had no idea what they were doing and all the outsourcing to china probably didn't help too.

They should invest the money and development time into something else. They also need to stop making FF13-based games.

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You know when you aren't trolling you make such brilliant posts.


FFXI is still doing well in its own right. SE is literally competing with themselves.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

I don't even know why companies are still making MMOs on this oversaturated market. Look at the past three years and all the MMOs that failed to meet everybodies expection and sales.. SWTOR, Rift, Warhammer, DC Universe, Conan, Vanguard a few years back etc. (with SWTOR being the worst offender), even GW2 didn't do that well and The Secret World failed too despite offering a somewhat different experience in gameplay. LotRO is one excpetion that actually got more players after switching business models. As long as WoW is still running nothing's gonna change that. FFXIV was made by people who clearly had no idea what they were doing and all the outsourcing to china probably didn't help too.

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This is the part that completely baffles me.

Hiromichi Tanaka is the guy chiefly behind the development of both XI and XIV. He was the chief game designer for XI as well.

They knew what worked and what didn't work from their experiences from XI. They had a template and an expansive market to study.

They even had plenty of lore and mythology to draw from in that it's, you know, Final Fantasy.

So rather than draw on all of that to make the best game possible, they designed XIV with an entirely different back end which resulted in a ridiculously sluggish user interface, bland and unimaginative zones to explore, a lack of quest content, a horrible fatigue system that limited a player's time leveling a job, an item decay system that not only encouraged player interaction, but practically REQUIRED it and an in game market that made no sense and was tedious to access.

Most MMOs are timesinks when it's time to endgame. FF XIV was a timesink just to go fucking shopping.

And they didn't even create new races. They were the same exact races with different names. Lazy

AND where is the 'Final Fantasy' in Final Fantasy XIV? At the start, the game had:

No chocobo mounts
No summons
No real interactions with the crystals
No real interactions with moogles
No accessible airships
No familiar, tried and true FF themed jobs/classes

The game should have been called 'Generic Fantasy With Races Stolen From Our Previous MMO.'

And what they really should have done is taken one of their more famous FFs and made a MMO version of it. Final Fantasy VII Online, using that world and all of its concepts, would have been a grand experiment.

People that play FF want to interact with those characters. Can you imagine a MMO where you accepted jobs from Avalanch, worked with President Rufus to solve a mystery about Mako energy leakage in one of their plants, took quests to rescue refugees from Tifa, unlocked Cloud's motorcycle as a mount and fought Sephiroth in some endgame capacity?

I am not saying FF VII is MY favorite FF (although I am replaying it on PC and enjoying it), but this is such a fucking no brainer that if S-E hasn't thought of it yet, there is something seriously wrong with the suits that run that fucking company.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

They should invest the money and development time into something else. They also need to stop making FF13-based games.

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Neither of these will happen.

They have sunk too much money into FF XIV and are counting on the business model. It would not surprise me at this point to discover that the real reason they started snatching up Western IPs was because they needed something to make up for all the subscription fees lost from FF XIV's pathetic state at launch.

And as for FF XIII, they had it all mapped out with the whole 'Fabula Nova Crystalis' thing. Resources were allocated and schedules set.

And anyway, FF XIII-2 is a fucking brilliant MMO. Fuck the hate this game gets. It absolutely does not deserve it.

Personally, I'm more baffled, given S-E's financial concerns why:

A.) Final Fantasy Versus XIII hasn't been released yet.

B.) Final Fantasy Type 0 was never released to western audiences. There is too much fucking money in the west not to do this, and the decision to keep it in Asia reeks of stupidity.

So whats the deal for someone who already bought FF XIV when it was released the first time? I played while it remained free but I never did any monthly subscriptions since the game was shit compared to XI. Will I be able to download the new client for free?

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Originally Posted by cannonball

So whats the deal for someone who already bought FF XIV when it was released the first time? I played while it remained free but I never did any monthly subscriptions since the game was shit compared to XI. Will I be able to download the new client for free?

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I would think that because they are extremely sensitive about the public perception of FF XIV -as well they should be, since the relaunch is being done to reclaim their consumer base- as they get ready for the big re-debut, they won't make their existing accounts purchase the client again.

But this is S-E. They will monetize anything they can get away with.

BTW, I haven't forgotten about PoE. Just haven't found the time to sit down and play it what with FF VII PC and DmC both having a solid hold on me. Will get there soon enough, though.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

they won't make their existing accounts purchase the client again.

But this is S-E. They will monetize anything they can get away with.

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Yeah, I'd like to think that but you're right about S-E. You have to look no further than their new money machine 'FF All The Bravest' to see how they do business these days.

I checked their site a month or so back and the forums and couldn't find any info on people who already dropped $50-$70 on the original game. That is what had me worried. If it is the case where I can just download the client I'll be subscribing as I still have faith in them to turn XIV around. XI was my favorite MMORPG since EQ and I really want them to make this one as successful.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

BTW, I haven't forgotten about PoE. Just haven't found the time to sit down and play it what with FF VII PC and DmC both having a solid hold on me. Will get there soon enough, though.

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No worries man. It will be there when you're ready and I'll be up for starting another character to run through with you. It will give me a chance to try out a more team oriented build.

I am amused by the notion that people are trying to legitimately explain the origins of video game development to Doctor Shroom as though he didn't understand it.

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Originally Posted by malignantpoodle

I am amused by the notion that people are trying to legitimately explain the origins of video game development to Doctor Shroom as though he didn't understand it.

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lmao, nice.

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Originally Posted by malignantpoodle

I am amused by the notion that people are trying to legitimately explain the origins of video game development to Doctor Shroom as though he didn't understand it.

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He wasn't trolling (as far as I could tell) so I thought I'd engage in a discussion with him.

But I got the reference anyway.

Edit: Yeah, he was trolling. Touche

- Company makes Billions of Yen off 10 year old and still running Pay to Pay MMO.
- Company fails launch of 2nd MMO in company history, reassigns new Team and Producer.
- Fixes original game to a playable condition with new content added and removed FTP and reinstates PTP, still having an 10K+ subscriber rate.
- All while working side by side on a relaunch from the ground up with a completely new engine, UI, completely overhauled areas, etc.

There is a difference between an over saturated failed MMO to FTP market with a horrible subscriber rate and a failed MMO PTP game that still holds 10K+ subscribers and is relaunching it from the ground up while still pleasing a 10K+ subscriber rate from the original game.

I'm not kissing this company's ass. Personally, this is an extremely rare sight in the industry. Not just a game, a MMO a company completely fucked up is actually dedicating the time, money and resources to completely correct it. Where the general industry standard is toss a few patches on, milk it as much as possible and move on.

All I can say is wait and see as I can't say much more per NDA.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

All I can say is wait and see as I can't say much more per NDA.

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I was part of the closed beta for XIV the first time around and I remember saying the same thing. "Wait and see". We all knew there were huge issues but we wanted to have faith in the company that they would fix it. Fool me once and all that. As I said above I'm very hopeful that they'll turn the game around but I won't be getting my credit card out until a couple months have gone by after release to see how this remix fares (assuming of course they're not making people buy the client again. No way I'm doing that).

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Originally Posted by cannonball

I was part of the closed beta for XIV the first time around and I remember saying the same thing. "Wait and see". We all knew there were huge issues but we wanted to have faith in the company that they would fix it. Fool me once and all that. As I said above I'm very hopeful that they'll turn the game around but I won't be getting my credit card out until a couple months have gone by after release to see how this remix fares (assuming of course they're not making people buy the client again. No way I'm doing that).

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I can tell you from experiencing the samething from XIV 1.0 closed Alpha and upto now. There is a huge difference between the two and sadly I can't discuss it until the NDA is removed with ARR Open Beta. This team is completely different and the huge issues of 1.0 Beta aren't there.

I refer the "wait and see" as if you get into ARR Beta or wait til release. Decide for yourself and compare ARR's base start to XIV 1.0s.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I'm not kissing this company's ass. Personally, this is an extremely rare sight in the industry. Not just a game, a MMO a company completely fucked up is actually dedicating the time, money and resources to completely correct it. Where the general industry standard is toss a few patches on, milk it as much as possible and move on.

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THIS

So very much THIS

This is why I find FF XIV's redesign so compelling.

The game could go away forever and I wouldn't really miss it. It was fun after 2/12, but I haven't really missed it all that much.

But this is a grand experiment, and could be the kind of thing that sets a trend in the industry. I am really curious to see it pan out.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

He wasn't trolling (as far as I could tell) so I thought I'd engage in a discussion with him.

But I got the reference anyway.

Edit: Yeah, he was trolling. Touche

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But I wasn't...

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

But I wasn't...

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Spoon and Poodle:

IN YO FACE!

:lolz:

You just wait your ether going to get a crap game or what i have seen more and more like a wow clone with some different stuff. I don't be leave they can fix it they had there shot and that it that. The game was so freeking aweful i just don't think i could ever give it another chance. I commend them for try to fix it but they screwed them selves over. There are going to be some people who are going to love this reboot while other who played it who simply wont. I dont beleave there going to gain any more people but i do not beleave they will loose numbers ether. I think for ever 1 person who disliked 14 someone will come to replace them.

I may check out the XIV re-release. The problem with newer MMOs (and the reason SWTOR in particular failed) is game design: most companies have lost the ability or desire to design a difficult game with a high learning curve that rewards planning/execution. FFXI was brilliant because seemingly impossible objectives could be beaten easily (and in many cases soloable) with careful planning, a well-designed character build, and good battle strategy. Most current RPGs want to be the next WoW so they let the user grind from 0-max for free regardless of skill, then they make endgame objectives that are impossible without armies of people regardless of skill. This system eventually becomes pointless because the house always wins.

If S-E remembers what made FFXI great, then they still have a chance to succeed after blowing the initial FFXIV launch. Normally this wouldn't be the case, but their competitors are all so determined to steal WoW's customers that they refuse to create an FFXI-like MMO. S-E's customers haven't been stolen from them, so S-E's biggest enemy is itself.

If the build on XIV just before it got shut down is any indication, count on something of a hybrid between XI and WoW.

Reason being that current producer Naoki Yoshida has done a LOT of research on trends in MMOs to see what people like, and he wants the game to be the kind of thing that can reward both the player that only has an hour to play and the palyer that wants to spend many hours grinding.

He was pretty humble about his expectations for 2.0. After he inherited the unenviable responsibility from Hiromichi Tanaka of producing the game, he acknowledge the many obstacles he faced.

He said something to the effect of 'people want the perfect game, but it's not easy to make the perfect game. You have to be a genius/natural talent to make a perfect game and there aren't that many geniuses in any field.'

He was basically summarizing a lot of what he said earlier in that they are trying to make a game that will appeal to a broad base of consumers and will have content for everyone to appreciate and enjoy.

So expect some easy objectives and expect some difficult ones. And even then, there are going to be players that break the game and find out how to exploit certain elements of it that they hadn't considered.

There was an obscenely easy way to PL people up to high 30s or low 40s in that game, and I did it for a few friends that wanted all battle jobs at 50 for the crown headgear (which isn't a bad piece).

Once Naoki Yoshida found out about it, you figure he would have fixed it but he didn't. He basically felt that there is a lot of content going on later in the game, and if this gets people to experience it sooner, it's best to let it be.

So he's showing, through his thoughts and actions, that he understands the player base to some degree. I think he's aware that people may not be understanding how to play jobs they've been rushed through, but MMOs have a way of course-correcting those problems that may arise through community-a shitty healer that got PLed and can't keep up the pace during endgame will be mercilessly dumped at the first opportunity for a better player.

EDIT: If anybody gets curious about the new build and wants someone to help them out, I am game. PM me if you want my server info. Be warned, though. While my character is max level with all battle jobs and I have good gear for most of them (AF at the very least), this new build will be unfamiliar to me and may take some time to learn how it's changed and what to look out for. I am still willing to help out how I can, however, and the LS can always use new peeps.

I'd just like to mention that Squeenix is going to compete against themselves again when Dragon Quest X hits the WiiU. As we all know the DQ brand has some major horsepower behind it, especially in Japan and I could imagine it performing alot better than XIV ever will. Who the hell has time for two MMOs?

In the end, FFXIV won't make much of a dent and will end as a footnote in MMO history like so many other titles before it. It might do decent on the PS3 for a while because there are no real alternatives in that genre on consoles. It won't affect the chinese or koreans markets the slightest, PC or PS3-wise. I know it looks like I'm bashing this game before it's even properly out, but I'm really just being realistic here. I like the FF7 online idea, I could imagine something like having a Shinra and a Rebel side in the game similar to the horde and alliance. The FF7 world is also diverse enough for such a game IMO. Just place it in some alternative timeline to curb any complains about the canon of the game or whatever.

Companies are still trying to copy WoW and are surprised when their product fails.

The reason for not releasing Type-0 are 1) the PSP is practically dead in the west and 2) the rampart piracy on the system (It takes like ten minutes to hack the system and putting a CFW on it as we all know) and 3) they never really gave a fuck about the west.

Oh and XIII is horrible, thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

I'd just like to mention that Squeenix is going to compete against themselves again when Dragon Quest X hits the WiiU. As we all know the DQ brand has some major horsepower behind it, especially in Japan and I could imagine it performing alot better than XIV ever will. Who the hell has time for two MMOs?

In the end, FFXIV won't make much of a dent and will end as a footnote in MMO history like so many other titles before it. It might do decent on the PS3 for a while because there are no real alternatives in that genre on consoles. It won't affect the chinese or koreans markets the slightest, PC or PS3-wise. I know it looks like I'm bashing this game before it's even properly out, but I'm really just being realistic here.

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Yeah, I don't think anyone here (except Saner) is disagreeing with you on these points and I don't thnk anyone sees you hating on the game. Human nature is what it is and no matter how good S-E's intentions are or how much of a renaissance the product goes through, the market just isn't the same as it was when they started developing for it.

The only reason they're giving XI another expansion at this point, IMO, is because it's a good way to supplement the money they aren't/haven't been making off of XIV. XI players still playing at this point aren't going to quit until the game is shut down.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

I like the FF7 online idea, I could imagine something like having a Shinra and a Rebel side in the game similar to the horde and alliance. The FF7 world is also diverse enough for such a game IMO. Just place it in some alternative timeline to curb any complains about the canon of the game or whatever.

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I have no idea why they make cell phone games and action shooters for the FF VII franchise when what people want is more opportunities to revisit that world in the format they're familiar and comfortable with. They want a robust RPG experience, and even though a VII MMO would be pandering, at this point why NOT do it?

I used to say they shouldn't remake it, but playing through it right now again, it's obvious that the game's theory was far more ambitous than the technology that pushes it. I can only imagine what a remake of VII, with all the technology available to them right now, would be like. Everything from environments to interface to graphics and soundtrack, even full speech...it would be crazy.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

The reason for not releasing Type-0 are 1) the PSP is practically dead in the west and 2) the rampart piracy on the system (It takes like ten minutes to hack the system and putting a CFW on it as we all know) and 3) they never really gave a fuck about the west.

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1.) Release digitally for western speaking audiences.
2.) Release digitally for western speaking audiences at a fair price point.
3.) S-E has traditionally acted like this and it makes no fucking sense to me to treat the west like a second or third market. It is the most profitable market in the world. Tap into it, shitters.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Shroom

Oh and XIII is horrible, thanks. :)

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You filthy animal:D

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Originally Posted by neojedi

I may check out the XIV re-release. The problem with newer MMOs (and the reason SWTOR in particular failed) is game design: most companies have lost the ability or desire to design a difficult game with a high learning curve that rewards planning/execution. FFXI was brilliant because seemingly impossible objectives could be beaten easily (and in many cases soloable) with careful planning, a well-designed character build, and good battle strategy. Most current RPGs want to be the next WoW so they let the user grind from 0-max for free regardless of skill, then they make endgame objectives that are impossible without armies of people regardless of skill. This system eventually becomes pointless because the house always wins.

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You do know that Absolute Virtue was first supposed to be an unbeatable boss, right? Why is this known? Because it was first defeated using a glitch in the game and it dropped nothing lol. SE felt stupid so they gave it droppables, but it was only possible to beat it using glitches in the game..that is until they upped the level max sigh.

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Originally Posted by Fox1

You do know that Absolute Virtue was first supposed to be an unbeatable boss, right? Why is this known? Because it was first defeated using a glitch in the game and it dropped nothing lol. SE felt stupid so they gave it droppables, but it was only possible to beat it using glitches in the game..that is until they upped the level max sigh.

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SE also insta-killed AV if a group attempted the stuck glitch before the fix, after it was discovered. The fix was implemented rather quick if I recall.

If you truly want a challenge, try beating a High Tier NM with no known strat. You should have been there for the 1st Pandemonium Warden pop game wide. 16hrs of trying to figure out any strat at all to beat him with rotating shifts of ppl on Leviathan Server.

In XIV an average skilled group of players had an extremely hard time killing Hard mode Garuda post fix and most cases didnt bother with Ifrit Extreme. Yoshi has proven that he is trying to cater both hardcore and casual players along with different skill lvls.

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Originally Posted by Fox1

You do know that Absolute Virtue was first supposed to be an unbeatable boss, right?

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True, but AV was just 1 mob they created to troll the elitists and it wasn't the point of the endgame back when it was 75 cap. Endgame then was mainly sky gods / Dynamis / Limbus / Assault / Nyzul. All of those were very doable and even low-mannable by good players, and suicide regardless of group size for bad players.

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Originally Posted by neojedi

True, but AV was just 1 mob they created to troll the elitists and it wasn't the point of the endgame back when it was 75 cap. Endgame then was mainly sky gods / Dynamis / Limbus / Assault / Nyzul. All of those were very doable and even low-mannable by good players, and suicide regardless of group size for bad players.

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75 Cap non low manable Endgame / suicide for bad players regardless of group size.
- Ground HNM
- ToAU HNM
- High Tier ZNM
- Einherjar / Odin
- Dynamis Lord / Dreamlands
- Dark Ixion / Doomvoid
- Proto Ultima
- AV

Average skill alliance players wiped to these fights all the time. Elitists still allianced these fights at 75 cap and very very few could low man them.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Average skill alliance players wiped to these fights all the time. Elitists still allianced these fights at 75 cap and very very few could low man them.

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True, but with the exceptions of DL/dreamlands and maybe einherjar, groups for those tasks weren't as common as the ones I mentioned. The hands down worst thing about FFXI was its early reliance on spawned/camped NMs. The longer it went the more it phased the importance of those NMs out, but it was definitely a very painful piece of the game for a long time. Most shells avoided NM camping unless absolutely necessary.

MMORPG genre is not "oversaturated", if anything, it's still rare in the console market, and there is nothing EXACTLY like FFXIV ARR on PC. And it's totally different world and the Final Fantasy flavor is one of a kind. the MMORPG shovelware out there really doesn't count since they are just either cheap browser games or some kind of niche FTP brand that don't even have the quality and ambition and financial support of mmorpgs like FFXIV ARR.


and not all of those Guild Wars 2 wannabe mmos fit every mmorpg fan's interests. And FFXI Online can't hold every single fan's interest forever.

If anything the SHOOTER market is oversaturated, but that isn't stopping the better ones from selling big.

Also there are at least 2 flavors of MMORPGs, free to play MMORPGs, and subscription based MMORPGS.
Fee based mmorpgs that fail turn to become FTP mmorpgs, but that doesn't mean FFXIV ARR has to follow that model to be successful.

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FF XIV stands as the most colossal failure in the history of video games, IMO. Worse than Duke Nukem Forever. Yoichi Wada, president of S-E, actually admitted that the game's poor quality tarnished the brand name.

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That's a huge exaggeration. DNF took longer to make AND it ended up flopping. FFXIV 1.0 flopped, but that was partially due to Tanaka's outdated principles and SE's impatience back then. but FFXIV ARR is turn things around a full 180 in a much better direction that at least has a chance to succeed on PC and PS3.

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But having said all that, the game got great in February 2K12. And subscriptions actually went up when they went back to a pay model. And there are a lot of people that only own PS3s that will give the game a try.

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That is true. DCUO is no FFXI. And although FFXIV ARR is a new combination between FFXI and WoW, it could earn a lot of fans.

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I think its myopic to judge people for being realistic about its chances. Saner's contention that 'people shouldn't judge the new game by the old' is just blind optimism. People are going to be very scrutinizing on this game.

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There's something called blind negative mindset. Where would the industry be without optimism?

I imply that FFXIV ARR has a good chance to redeem the title, much better than all the FFXIII's combined.

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And even if it succeeds and is everything people hope for, MMOs are just operating under a different business model than they were when S-E decided to even make FF XIV.

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So what? FFXIV doesn't need to sell out to the cheap penny pincher consumer market to succeed.
FTP is the death/stagnation of mmorpgs.

That's why DCUO will always be a mediocre mmorpg because the developers ambition is too small and closed minded.
That's why FFXIV ARR has a better chance of lasting longer than Guild Wars 2 (GW2 is just a cheap cash in and doesn't even provide all
the fundamentals of an immersive mmorpgs. People only really play it because its free to play mmorpg for dummies. )

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My prediction: it will have a loyal subscriber base, just like XI did. It won't dethrone WoW because nothing can dethrone WoW but the player base will be generally awesome to play with, just like XI was.

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Well at least that is a decent perspective.

Also someone that said Square Enix is competing with themselves because of Dragon Quest X. THEY ARE NOT COMPETING WITH THEMSELVES.

1. Dragon Quest X is exclusive to Wii consoles. PC and PS3 exclusive gamers won't care for it. DQX is mmorpg lite. It's a simple and old school grind heavy mmorpg. It's an mmorpg for a completely different audience and platform market.

2. FFXIV ARR is being developed for PC and PS3. Completely different market. On PS3, the only competition is DCUO (which is just a FTP corpse that's already outdated in every category compared to even decade old mmorpgs like FFXI. )

there is competition on PC, but FFXIV ARR can definitely win interest from even FFXI, WoW and GW2 veterans that understand the values of subscription fee model and are sick of older mmorpgs. There are many people looking for the next big mmorpg and willing to pay to play it.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/image....ine=1310673456

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

SE also insta-killed AV if a group attempted the stuck glitch before the fix, after it was discovered. The fix was implemented rather quick if I recall.

If you truly want a challenge, try beating a High Tier NM with no known strat. You should have been there for the 1st Pandemonium Warden pop game wide. 16hrs of trying to figure out any strat at all to beat him with rotating shifts of ppl on Leviathan Server.
In XIV an average skilled group of players had an extremely hard time killing Hard mode Garuda post fix and most cases didnt bother with Ifrit Extreme. Yoshi has proven that he is trying to cater both hardcore and casual players along with different skill lvls.

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I was actually still playing the game when pandemonium was unbeatable. I remember the live coverage on the Lev server...lol "People are passing out and throwing up, but we have to continue!!!"

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

75 Cap non low manable Endgame / suicide for bad players regardless of group size.
- Ground HNM
- ToAU HNM
- High Tier ZNM
- Einherjar / Odin
- Dynamis Lord / Dreamlands
- Dark Ixion / Doomvoid
- Proto Ultima
- AV

Average skill alliance players wiped to these fights all the time. Elitists still allianced these fights at 75 cap and very very few could low man them.

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Good god screw Dark Ixion, screw him to hell. I died so many times tanking that son of a..that and getting aggro with a samurai when WSing him from behind..instant death. I remember wide scanning for him and sandworm.

"Found DI!!! Do you have the throwing item? Gimme, I'm maxed out on throwing....ok... I'll creep up to him.....SDFJSDLF: FLEAS GO AWAY....FUCK HE SAW ME, HE IS RUNNING, BACK TO WIDE SCANNING!@#!@#"

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Originally Posted by neojedi

True, but with the exceptions of DL/dreamlands and maybe einherjar, groups for those tasks weren't as common as the ones I mentioned. The hands down worst thing about FFXI was its early reliance on spawned/camped NMs. The longer it went the more it phased the importance of those NMs out, but it was definitely a very painful piece of the game for a long time. Most shells avoided NM camping unless absolutely necessary.

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3 manning Khim go!!! One thing I will never forget is this HNM group only had 3 people on Khim because for some reason their entire LS was somewhere else. Anyway, they got it to 1% and it did fulm 3 times in a row. They all wiped, one of our guys went up it, hit it once and it dropped a Hautclaire... I was laughing so hard.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

You should have been there for the 1st Pandemonium Warden pop game wide. 16hrs of trying to figure out any strat at all to beat him with rotating shifts of ppl on Leviathan Server.

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I was on Leviathan as well although I didn't participate in much end game outside of my BST linkshell, but my RL friend Ciegrayndez did. Did you know him? I don't think either of us have played since 2009 though.

Oh I was reminded of something else...one time there was this glitch that someone figured out. He went into King Ranperres tomb and somehow glitched Vrtra to appear in East Ron (Draw in wasn't working correctly or something). And it started killing all the newbies in east ron. A GM was called and he had to kill it, was actually quite funny. Sorry...ffxi brings back some good memories heh.

Although my favorite moments will always be seeing newbies running away from a wild rabbit shouting "HELP!!"

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Originally Posted by neojedi

The hands down worst thing about FFXI was its early reliance on spawned/camped NMs. The longer it went the more it phased the importance of those NMs out, but it was definitely a very painful piece of the game for a long time. Most shells avoided NM camping unless absolutely necessary.

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I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Competing with other players for NMs that had pathetically long spawn times was so frustrating. Competing for Moldy Earring and Assault Jerkin were so goddamn frustrating. Going down into the dungeon (don't remember the name now) and seeing people just standing around was so fucking disheartening. Never mind camping Joyeuse.

This is one of the really nice thing about FF XIV. NMs respawn within 5 minutes so competition was NEVER a problem. Granted, there's server population to consider: that mob might be more heavily camped if the servers had more players. And that may be an issue later, but it was nice to know that within a half hour, I could farm the NM for what I needed and move on.

It also helps that a lot of the really nice items can be acquired through Grand Company seals and instances that don't require you to schedule the better part of a day to run endgame with some elite LS (although playing with high skill players really helps, obviously.) No camping, no waiting for interminably long respawn times, no competing and losing the claim due to latency.

These were the most maddening things to me about XI.

We stopped playing XI during the second phase of Wings of the Goddess. I liked the concept of things like Campaign but I thought the PS2's hardware limitations prevented the PC build of the game flourishing (at that time) and you can tell that it also affected Besieged, an otherwise great idea, to a great extent.

The Ps2 version of FFXI needed to be discontinued because I agree it was holding it back a lot. Unfortunately it seemed like most the FFXI players in JP were/still are? ps2 players. I blame them... I personally didn't understand why/how a person could play the game on the Ps2 as it looked horrid and was hard to keep up with anything. Oh and don't get me started about the sloppy Xbox 360 port lol.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Competing with other players for NMs that had pathetically long spawn times was so frustrating. Competing for Moldy Earring and Assault Jerkin were so goddamn frustrating. Going down into the dungeon (don't remember the name now) and seeing people just standing around was so fucking disheartening. Never mind camping Joyeuse.

This is one of the really nice thing about FF XIV. NMs respawn within 5 minutes so competition was NEVER a problem. Granted, there's server population to consider: that mob might be more heavily camped if the servers had more players. And that may be an issue later, but it was nice to know that within a half hour, I could farm the NM for what I needed and move on.

It also helps that a lot of the really nice items can be acquired through Grand Company seals and instances that don't require you to schedule the better part of a day to run endgame with some elite LS (although playing with high skill players really helps, obviously.) No camping, no waiting for interminably long respawn times, no competing and losing the claim due to latency.

These were the most maddening things to me about XI.

We stopped playing XI during the second phase of Wings of the Goddess. I liked the concept of things like Campaign but I thought the PS2's hardware limitations prevented the PC build of the game flourishing (at that time) and you can tell that it also affected Besieged, an otherwise great idea, to a great extent.

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It's true that NM camping in XI was usually frustrating, but a lot of my fondest memories are actually from camping NMs and talking with the random people that were there competing with me, etc. I had an incredibly fast pull too so that also helped (charm). While it's probably nice to have a NM repop every 5 minutes, it was so exciting seeing that NM finally spawn after sometimes days of waiting. It was always nice just to know the ToD so you could start logging in at the new spawn window even if you didn't get him the first time.

One thing that FFXI did right in my opinion was combining all the regions into the servers. Sure the translation system was crap and made for funny conversations, but it was always awesome being able to converse with Japanese players, Euro players and US players all at once. More MMOs need to do this IMO.

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Originally Posted by Fox1

The Ps2 version of FFXI needed to be discontinued because I agree it was holding it back a lot. Unfortunately it seemed like most the FFXI players in JP were/still are? ps2 players. I blame them... I personally didn't understand why/how a person could play the game on the Ps2 as it looked horrid and was hard to keep up with anything. Oh and don't get me started about the sloppy Xbox 360 port lol.

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I think, and I'm just basing this on previous conversations I had with other people who played XI over the nearly 6 years I was involved from US launch so take that for what it's worth, that people tended to traditionally view FF as a console experience and I think that mindset held fast with a large portion of their player base.

I also can't speak to the size of PCs in Japan back in the day, but living space requirements were also a consideration, I'm sure. The PS2 just didn't take up as much space as the PCs of the day so in Japan, that may have been a factor. Playing on PS2 offered FF fans and MMO fans alike a chance to experience both at the same time, and with a beloved IP as well. I have said it many, many times: FF XI is probably the most efficient 'product' S-E ever produced for distilling the ideas of FF and presenting them in a single format. I still believe that. I am not talking about whether or not I think 'it's the best FF game' or whatever. I'm talking about conceptualization to realization: FF XI does exactly what S-E intended it to do, and that's why I think it has such a firm hold on its player base and why it continues to be viewed almost romantically by its community. The fundamental components of that game are something that, subconsciously, just works for its supporters.

PC gaming has come a long way towards more uniform hardware requirements since then. I have a rig now that seems to run everything without requiring any mods or tweaking, but the same can't be said of the XI launch period. I think people liked the idea of 'turn the game system on, play the game' and getting an optimal experience on the PC may not have been as easy back then as it was now.

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Originally Posted by Cannonball

It's true that NM camping in XI was usually frustrating, but a lot of my fondest memories are actually from camping NMs and talking with the random people that were there competing with me, etc. I had an incredibly fast pull too so that also helped (charm). While it's probably nice to have a NM repop every 5 minutes, it was so exciting seeing that NM finally spawn after sometimes days of waiting. It was always nice just to know the ToD so you could start logging in at the new spawn window even if you didn't get him the first time.

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This is the other reason I think FF XI has such a high attach rate to it: for the amount of time you invested into accomplishing a goal, the sense of reward transcended the platform and client. I remember when I finally got my Byakko's Haidate after murdering that mob so many times and having to wait for my turn in the LS rotation, I felt a sense of pride. Farming the spawn items is not easy because of the heavy competition. So to gather enough people, to compete for the spawn items and then pray and hope for tiger to drop his pants was unbelievably satisfying. It didn't matter how much I used the pants or not. I HAD them, and that created a sense of accomplishment that just went beyond the mechanics of the game or 'winning.' So I feel you.

But my ultimate value in the game did not lie in competing, because I fucking despise PvP with a passion and competing for NMs is a type of PvP. Some people love it. Some people crave it. I already lived my 'PvP' days in the 90s, in the arcades at fighting games. I already did that, and this digital form of competition just isn't for me. I prefer when MMOs challenge players to work together to overcome challenges. That cooperative element is something I truly thrive on-getting a bunch of people with different goals and mindsets to function as a cohesive whole to the eventual benefit of everyone...that is where I get my kicks out of online play with others nowadays.

Gestalt is an amazing thing.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

This is the other reason I think FF XI has such a high attach rate to it: for the amount of time you invested into accomplishing a goal, the sense of reward transcended the platform and client. I remember when I finally got my Byakko's Haidate after murdering that mob so many times and having to wait for my turn in the LS rotation, I felt a sense of pride. Farming the spawn items is not easy because of the heavy competition. So to gather enough people, to compete for the spawn items and then pray and hope for tiger to drop his pants was unbelievably satisfying. It didn't matter how much I used the pants or not. I HAD them, and that created a sense of accomplishment that just went beyond the mechanics of the game or 'winning.' So I feel you.

But my ultimate value in the game did not lie in competing, because I fucking despise PvP with a passion and competing for NMs is a type of PvP. Some people love it. Some people crave it. I already lived my 'PvP' days in the 90s, in the arcades at fighting games. I already did that, and this digital form of competition just isn't for me. I prefer when MMOs challenge players to work together to overcome challenges. That cooperative element is something I truly thrive on-getting a bunch of people with different goals and mindsets to function as a cohesive whole to the eventual benefit of everyone...that is where I get my kicks out of online play with others nowadays.

Gestalt is an amazing thing.

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One of the most difficult things in FFXI was getting a relic weapon. I remember getting my Samurai GK Relic, fully upgraded. It was something really worth celebrating since it was nearly an impossible task without alliances helping you to get the materials and currency. Then SE upped the level cap and said, "Oh hey, you can upgrade your weapon again, but you have to do something similar to what you just completed..... again." That's when I quit and sold my account lol. They really screwed the relic owners, now it's easy as hell to get one (or so i've heard)

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Originally Posted by neojedi

True, but with the exceptions of DL/dreamlands and maybe einherjar, groups for those tasks weren't as common as the ones I mentioned. The hands down worst thing about FFXI was its early reliance on spawned/camped NMs. The longer it went the more it phased the importance of those NMs out, but it was definitely a very painful piece of the game for a long time. Most shells avoided NM camping unless absolutely necessary.

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I agree and SE added even more insult to injury with Tiamat and Jormungand being a 3-5 Day spawn.

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Originally Posted by Fox1

I was actually still playing the game when pandemonium was unbeatable. I remember the live coverage on the Lev server...lol "People are passing out and throwing up, but we have to continue!!!"

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Yep was a rather crazy event and I still feel for Tsola as he was there the whole time non-stop.

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Originally Posted by cannonball

I was on Leviathan as well although I didn't participate in much end game outside of my BST linkshell, but my RL friend Ciegrayndez did. Did you know him? I don't think either of us have played since 2009 though.

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Name sounds familiar. If you had a BST LS depending on the time frame you likely knew Clownfyre and Maew then.

When I came back to the game this Nov, I gave up on Leviathan and transferred to Phoenix with some friends. Just being on Leviathan for 10 years and the overall difference of the server now compared to the past made me move.

I am not judging you Fox, but I could never have sold my account. I had done too much, gone through too much, met too many people and been through so many alliances, linkshells and groupings to do that. That character had become a part of me and forever would be. This is what I mean by 'transcending the platform.' I can't do something with fervor for 5+ years without being forever affected by it.

The idea that somebody else out there would be walking around in my skin or using me as a mule or selling off all my crap and deleting my account was just too much to think about.

When people found out I was quitting, they were asking 'can I have your stuff?' and I was like 'Fuck you, this shit is all going into the tomb like a pharoah and no one gets to loot my remains.'

And there he remains, peacefully at rest until the end of time. Or until S-E completely delets the character, whichever comes first.

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Originally Posted by Taiso

I am not judging you Fox, but I could never have sold my account. I had done too much, gone through too much, met too many people and been through so many alliances, linkshells and groupings to do that. That character had become a part of me and forever would be. This is what I mean by 'transcending the platform.' I can't do something with fervor for 5+ years without being forever affected by it.

The idea that somebody else out there would be walking around in my skin or using me as a mule or selling off all my crap and deleting my account was just too much to think about.

When people found out I was quitting, they were asking 'can I have your stuff?' and I was like 'Fuck you, this shit is all going into the tomb like a pharoah and no one gets to loot my remains.'

And there he remains, peacefully at rest until the end of time. Or until S-E completely delets the character, whichever comes first.

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I agree with ya. The problem was the game was starting to affect my life. Being in an HNM shell really was screwing up my hours and destroying any hope of a social life, so I had to get rid of it. I knew if the account was still there I would go back to it, so I had to get rid of it. I'll always have the fun memories heh.