Popular religious belief vs. genuine doctrine...

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10-29-2011, 08:09 PM
neobuyer

Popular religious belief vs. genuine doctrine...

1) Are people saved by coming to Christ of their own free will, are some or all Christians ‘chosen’ by God himself, or is it both or none of the above?

If Christians are supposed to ‘come to god’ and ‘choose’ Christ, in order to be recreated spiritually (born again, and be saved from damnation through Christ), or even be called to God- how exactly does one account for the normal practice of highly religious people choosing their children’s religion for them from birth? (note: this is true of most religions amongst some people) Meaning- the early years of a child’s development (along with some experiences in older childhood insofar as indoctrination) hard-code certain beliefs into young children that often last until death. In highly religious families such as these, children can in no way be said to ‘choose’ their faith. And even in the teen years, a time when many Christians claim to have really, truly ‘accepted Christ’- they still are very influenced by not only the indoctrination of early childhood, but to the influence of family, friends and their religious community as a whole (including pressure and even ostracism. So- it is entirely likely that there are literally millions of people in the US alone- who never ‘came to’ Christ and chose to be reborn as an individual.

2) Everything happens for a reason...

The extremely erroneous notion (of some Christians) that everything that happens in life is the will of God, and therefore anything that happens- good or bad- is all part of “God’s plan”. WTF up with this one- the inherently flawed logic of this one has irked me about some people I’ve known for most of my life.

There are a bunch more too, but share some of yours. Keep in mind, this thread isn’t aimed at trashing Christianity.
10-29-2011, 08:52 PM
SonGohan

George Carlin has covered this pretty well.
10-29-2011, 09:43 PM
LoneSage

Reasonable, rational humans have covered this pretty well for millenia.

i.e.

cool another reilgion thread awesome how thought-provoking
10-29-2011, 09:49 PM
Dr Shroom

Here we go again...:rolleyes:
10-29-2011, 10:32 PM
HeartlessNinny

I'll just say this: taking one's method of thought and one's sense of morality from a time when religion, science and politics were all the same thing... That's just plain crazy to me. Call me a heathen if you wish, but I'd like to think that humanity has learned at least a few things in the last few millennia or so.
10-29-2011, 10:45 PM
BigTinz

it's all doo doo.
10-29-2011, 11:08 PM
SML

Hail Eris.
10-29-2011, 11:17 PM
Sexual Instinct

I'm rating this thread "E" for "Edgy".
10-30-2011, 12:19 AM
LoneSage

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartlessNinny

I'll just say this: taking one's method of thought and one's sense of morality from a time when religion, science and politics were all the same thing... That's just plain crazy to me. Call me a heathen if you wish, but I'd like to think that humanity has learned at least a few things in the last few millennia or so.

listen up and listen close, motherfucker

steal another rarely used word from me and

and, well,

we'll see

but it won't be pretty
10-30-2011, 12:24 AM
gum_drops

This thread reminds me, I want my name changed to Judah Ben-Hur.
10-30-2011, 06:55 AM
HeartlessNinny

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneSage

listen up and listen close, motherfucker

steal another rarely used word from me and

and, well,

we'll see

but it won't be pretty

Rarely used word? Which one?

Was it heathen..?
10-30-2011, 12:09 PM
Cylotron

the way I see it, if you're going to follow a religion, why not just follow it back to it's roots....

"Zoroastrianism" - it's what christianity, judaism, etc ripped off of and twisted into their own religions.
10-30-2011, 02:24 PM
PleaseKillMeNow

What's the deal with airline peanuts?

I'd really like more coverage regarding this topic.
10-30-2011, 02:31 PM
Takumaji

If I got the Christian religions right, God loves all of us. You, me, them, everybody, everybody.
10-30-2011, 03:52 PM
HeartlessNinny

Is it me, or is it funny that this thread is all trolly -- but if it was in the War Room, it would get more serious responses.

And that is fucking funny. :lolz:
10-30-2011, 05:46 PM
neobuyer

Tell you jagoffs what- I'll change the name of the topic.

Also- try and contribute something instead of voicing your lame dismissives.

(Oh- and moving this to the warroom is probably a good idea. I probably should have put it there in the first place.)
10-30-2011, 05:58 PM
LoneSage

Quit trying to make sense of the irrational
10-30-2011, 08:08 PM
Poopporn Smutton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takumaji

If I got the Christian religions right, God loves all of us. You, me, them, everybody, everybody.

Right.

But what of the abominations?!? And 'justifiable' Holy Wars bc God simply doesnt have infinite patience for people worshipping other deities. :rolleyes:

http://unfollowingjesus.com/files/2010/12/crucifix.jpg
10-30-2011, 08:13 PM
Poopporn Smutton

On topic: Wes made the best religious post that has ever been made on this forum. He said he takes his kid to church, not because he personally believes in everything that the church people do, but because it is a kind hearted place where people are nice and his kid has fun singing songs and doing church things in a caring constructive environment.

That, right there, it a mature thing to do. Its the exact same reason I went to Jewish sunday school growing up.

And thats all religions should really be, imo. Happy kind hearted charitable places of friendliness, not political pulpits justifying holy wars, or praying for the damned souls of "the other people".
10-31-2011, 12:34 AM
SPINMASTER X

Did ya'll know that upside down crosses aren't satanic. If anything an upside cross means being even more submissive to Christ. So the next time you see some little wanna be satanic reble turn a cross up side down it should make you chuckle a bit.
10-31-2011, 12:42 AM
Evil Wasabi

My favorite dinosaur was the pterodactyl until I learned about the velociraptor.
10-31-2011, 12:46 AM
LoneSage

That's like saying a swastika is a good luck Hindu symbol.
10-31-2011, 12:46 AM
Lagduf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popcorn Sutton

http://unfollowingjesus.com/files/2010/12/crucifix.jpg

This is absolutely fantastic.

Well done.
10-31-2011, 12:48 AM
2D_Master

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Sands

My favorite dinosaur was the pterodactyl until I learned about the velociraptor.

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2011/dino-jesus.jpg
10-31-2011, 12:50 AM
Lagduf

My friend works with someone who believe in the creationist, young earth/earth is 5,000 years old stuff.

Crazy.
10-31-2011, 12:51 AM
SPINMASTER X

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneSage

That's like saying a swastika is a good luck Hindu symbol.

no It's not.
10-31-2011, 01:32 AM
Evil Wasabi

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPINMASTER X

no It's not.

The cross is a stupid image.

Like if you know someone who was raped to death, wear a penis on a necklace so that you can remember and display your devotion.
10-31-2011, 01:33 AM
Lagduf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Sands

The cross is a stupid image.

Like if you know someone who was raped to death, wear a penis on a necklace so that you can remember and display your devotion.

Bill Hicks had a funny skit about this, but instead of rape it was about the Kennedy assassination. Hilarious shit.
10-31-2011, 04:00 AM
HeartlessNinny

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPINMASTER X

no It's not.

You are indeed right. An early pope, when he was going to be crucified, asked that he be done so upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to get killed the same way Christ did. I guess no one told him that was the defacto crucifixion method back during Jesus's time, and they did the same to murderers and whatnot. I forget which pope it was, by the way...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagduf

Bill Hicks had a funny skit about this, but instead of rape it was about the Kennedy assassination. Hilarious shit.

"That's like going up to Jackie O with a rifle pendant. Just thinking of John, Jackie. Just thinking of John."
10-31-2011, 04:51 AM
Takumaji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popcorn Sutton

Right.

But what of the abominations?!? And 'justifiable' Holy Wars bc God simply doesnt have infinite patience for people worshipping other deities.

That's all man-made. The bible, the laughable justifications for holy wars, witch hunts, etc.

Yet the idea of an ..uhm... kindhearted entity who unconditionally loves all of his children (i.e. you and me) and keeps an eye on us is kinda nice, as is the basic message be cool, don't kill, don't steal and love your neighbour.

No, I'm not religious in the technical meaning of the word, just thinking aloud.
10-31-2011, 05:54 AM
LoneSage

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartlessNinny

You are indeed right. An early pope, when he was going to be crucified, asked that he be done so upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to get killed the same way Christ did. I guess no one told him that was the defacto crucifixion method back during Jesus's time, and they did the same to murderers and whatnot. I forget which pope it was, by the way...

Images can change meaning over time, if the collective people deem it so. Just because that's what an upside down cross meant greater devotion 1000 years ago need not apply today.
10-31-2011, 09:46 AM
SML

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Anton Wilson

The Western World has been brainwashed by Aristotle for the last 2,500 years. The unconscious, not quite articulate, belief of most Occidentals is that there is one map which adequately represents reality. By sheer good luck, every Occidental thinks he or she has the map that fits. Guerrilla ontology, to me, involves shaking up that certainty. I use what in modern physics is called the "multi-model" approach, which is the idea that there is more than one model to cover a given set of facts. As I've said, novel writing involves learning to think like other people. My novels are written so as to force the reader to see things through different reality grids rather than through a single grid. It's important to abolish the unconscious dogmatism that makes people think their way of looking at reality is the only sane way of viewing the world. My goal is to try to get people into a state of generalized agnosticism, not agnosticism about God alone, but agnosticism about everything. If one can only see things according to one's own belief system, one is destined to become virtually deaf, dumb, and blind. It's only possible to see people when one is able to see the world as others see it. That's what guerrilla ontology is — breaking down this one-model view and giving people a multi-model perspective.

God bless.
10-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Jedah Doma

I thought about putting forth a well thought out response to this religion thread. Then I realized I was on NG.com and said LULZ NVM.
10-31-2011, 10:14 AM
SML

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedah Doma

I thought about putting forth a well thought out response to this religion thread. Then I realized I was on NG.com and said LULZ NVM.

WWJD?
10-31-2011, 11:10 AM
Jedah Doma

Quote:

Originally Posted by SML

WWJD?

He who has not screwed Gamestop over in some way, throw the first stone. ^_^
10-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Evil Wasabi

he who as not screwed satan over can throw the first stone?! What kind of fucked religion is that?
10-31-2011, 12:31 PM
Taiso

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takumaji

If I got the Christian religions right, God loves all of us. You, me, them, everybody, everybody.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...esBrothers.jpg
10-31-2011, 01:35 PM
BigFred

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartlessNinny

You are indeed right. An early pope, when he was going to be crucified, asked that he be done so upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to get killed the same way Christ did. I guess no one told him that was the defacto crucifixion method back during Jesus's time, and they did the same to murderers and whatnot. I forget which pope it was, by the way...

"That's like going up to Jackie O with a rifle pendant. Just thinking of John, Jackie. Just thinking of John."

My High School had an upside down cross on the emblem. It was called Saint Peter's High School.

Long story short. Peter did not feel he was worthy to die the same way as Jesus and so chose to die upside-down. The upside down cross has always represented "The Rock" as in Peter not the WWE superstar.

I've heard of an upside down star representing satanic beliefs etc but never an upside down cross.
10-31-2011, 01:44 PM
SML

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFred

My High School had an upside down cross on the emblem. It was called Saint Peter's High School.

Long story short. Peter did not feel he was worthy to die the same way as Jesus and so chose to die upside-down. The upside down cross has always represented "The Rock" as in Peter not the WWE superstar.

I've heard of an upside down star representing satanic beliefs etc but never an upside down cross.

Which explains

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...cross_pope.gif
10-31-2011, 02:26 PM
Ami Tajiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2D_Master

Spoiler:

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2011/dino-jesus.jpg

Someone should write a song called "Jesus Loves the Little Raptors."

I was raised in a non-religious environment and encouraged to find whatever beliefs made the most sense to me. I like that approach. As for religion, I don't think it's a wholly horrible thing. I went to a Unitarian church for a while, and felt kindness, comfort, and fellowship with the people there. They also worked for good causes in the community and encouraged critical discussion of every topic imaginable.

I far prefer that to the rigid and disdainful practices of some churches. I also got dragged to a Baptist church several times by my then-boyfriend, and heard the youth group leaders pronounce half my family members doomed to hell. (That is not a denunciation of all Christians. Hell, I don't find that behavior very Christian to begin with.)
10-31-2011, 02:37 PM
Taiso

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ami Tajiri

I was raised in a non-religious environment and encouraged to find whatever beliefs made the most sense to me. I like that approach. As for religion, I don't think it's a wholly horrible thing. I went to a Unitarian church for a while, and felt kindness, comfort, and fellowship with the people there. They also worked for good causes in the community and encouraged critical discussion of every topic imaginable.

Okay, I know I must be tired and ready for sleep (already) because I read that and thought it said Unitology.

Which is the fucked up religion from the Dead Space games.
10-31-2011, 03:49 PM
LoneSage

Upside down cross is seen as satanic by 99% of everyone ever.

ergo, it is.
10-31-2011, 03:54 PM
Takumaji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taiso

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...esBrothers.jpg

"We're on a mission from God."
10-31-2011, 03:59 PM
Poopporn Smutton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takumaji

"We're on a mission from Gahd."

.
10-31-2011, 04:01 PM
SML

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneSage

Upside down cross is seen as satanic by 99% of everyone ever.

ergo, it is.

Inverted crucifix, sure.
10-31-2011, 04:11 PM
Evil Wasabi

inverted penis?

a mangina?
10-31-2011, 04:15 PM
Poopporn Smutton

I've heard freako warmonger christians describe the "Peace Sign" and an inverted, broken cross.

So peace is bad.
10-31-2011, 04:19 PM
cannonball

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Sands

inverted penis?

a mangina?

No, a brossy.
10-31-2011, 04:26 PM
Evil Wasabi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popcorn Sutton

I've heard freako warmonger christians describe the "Peace Sign" and an inverted, broken cross.

So peace is bad.

Peace is the realization of one side's successful oppression of another. War is the resistance to accept subjugation and oppression.

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