I loved the scene with Arya Stark laughing at the news of her aunt's death.
That laugh was...delicious.
I loved the scene with Arya Stark laughing at the news of her aunt's death.
That laugh was...delicious.
If we stick to the books, which I think they will regarding tyrion. One of the next episodes should be pretty epic. Probably the finalle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greedostick
Spoiler:
I wish I could shit gold.
I spoiled myself on the events of this season in the worst way imaginable: by browsing the ice and fire wiki while reading up on other characters backstories.
So I knew Oberyn was gonna get fucked up....but man! the way he got fucked up was pretty fucked up.
I rate the end of last sundays episode 4.5 whatthefuckdidijustwatch's outta 5
And man I hate the fucking Boltons.
I hope someone forces Ramsay to watch his dog and dad get flayed side by side and let the two wear the others skin while dying as a nod to the way Robb and his dire wolf went out.
there's word for every kind of murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magician
For some reason, I thought that Ramsey just gets gets killed and nothing is made of it, kind of like GRRM is saying how worthless of a character he was. But that hasn't happened yet in the books. The show is never immediately or directly gratifying, you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poonman
For example, a lot of people hoped that Arya would kill Joffrey, ignoring that Joffrey was so minor, in the grand scheme of the story.
As for the 'grand scheme', I feel that this week's coming episode is a huge make or break moment for the TV show. How much are they willing to commit to the real story, which is what's happening in the north? Will they spend some money and have giants and mastodons and shit attacking the wall? or will it just be a bunch of people in dirty clothes exchanging arrow shots with a bunch of dudes in black leather armor standing on battlements? Will they follow through on some of the massive action beats during that fight or is it going to be more low budget fare that avoids the epic scale of the battle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi
Gonna find out. I still have high hopes.
I think I'm in the minority here (other than Mikhail, maybe) but I haven't read the books. As previously mentioned, the Comrade loaned me season 1 on BR, I got hooked and powered through and am current as of this last episode. So for the most part, most twists and turns in the story are being experienced in real-time as I watch the show with no pre-conceived expectations, unless my wife (the book hound) decides to spoil a detail or two for me.
Anyone else here that hasn't read the books that is watching the series regularly?
I've mainly been skimming this thread because I have only read the first book. I did so prior to watching the first season of the show. As much as I enjoyed the book, the show is so compelling and the plot twists so visually shocking that I held off on reading the other books. I am currently reading A Clash of Kings (Book 2) and have watched every episode to date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy KGB
I was expecting an over-dub of Soda Popinski's laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magician
I hope so too. I feel like they haven't really given big battles, and they could. If STARZ could do it for Spartacus, with Crassus and Caesar surrounded by hundreds of slaves, then HBO could and should do better. But at the same time, their budget is completely sunk on the sets. The sets are beautiful, and so are the costumes. That draws half the viewership - and that same viewership has been raised to be disinterested in violence, and love the cock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
So think about that, I guess.
You are a weird guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
This is a succinct analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi
This series is built on its intrigues, and I get that the audience is drawn to all the backstabbing and plot twists, but the books did a much better job of integrating that into the larger tapestry of the story. In the books, all of that stuff is a part of the grand scheme. In the TV show, they want me to believe that the important stuff that the novels are driving to are side stories and distractions.
The build has been terrible for the battle at the wall, which is a major part of the third book and they've botched it. By the time they get to what many of us presume are the big reveals about Jon Snow, is the audience even going to care? Will these things even mean anything in the context of the story the TV show is telling? Audiences like Jon, but do they care about him? Do they want to see him accomplish anything? Is any loyalty to the TV version of the character tied to the things he's doing, or is it just Stark brand loyalty the audience is feeling?
The books are building to something with Jon. Something important. And Martin has been very careful to tell a story that makes you actually care about Jon Snow as a character, not simply as 'possible last hope of the Starks since he's the oldest male of the family still in Westeros.'
I guess I feel like the TV series, while enjoyable, just isn't telling a story that will support the growing importance of the character, both in his personal development and also in what many book readers have projected as the larger picture. When the TV version gets to those parts (presuming they don't deviate dramatically from the source at that particular junction), will the TV narrative, which has been faithful to the books to this point in a general sense, mesh with the source that has informed it?
The show has gone all sideways for me. Still watching it and still enjoying it but now I'm wondering if this is all going to work in the end.
Maybe George Martin is just building the Snow thing up only to kill him off at the beginning of the last book.
If that's the case in the novels, then when the show reaches that point it will mean absolutely nothing. An unimportant character will have died a meaningless death and it will have all been a waste of the audience's time.Quote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
If Martin's intention is to kill Jon Snow, then that makes the build up and the importance all the more meaningful for that 'yank the rug' moment.
If that's the case, then the TV show is still mangling it. Even worse, now.
But honestly, you'd have to pay me to get me to believe that Martin would kill any of these characters before the finale:
Jon Snow
Arya Stark
Sansa Stark
Bran Stark
Rickon Stark
Danyreis Targaryan
Tyrion Lannister
Cercei Lannister
Jamie Lannister
Varys
Petyr Baelish
Another plot point I'm not wholely clear about.
I am curious as to why Sansa Stark backed Little Finger rather than outing him to the Veil nobles.
Can someone with the knowledge drop a spoiler for me?
This was originally a puzzling deviation from the book for me, but then I thought about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magician
As I recall from the book, Sansa played along with the whole 'Alaine Rivers' deception Petyr was plotting for her. The nobles investigating Lysa's death never found out who she really was. He told her it was to protect her from other enemies, although we know that he's playing some kind of long game that revolves around his keeping Sansa in his custody. Sansa suspects something might be up, but she isn't sure and she also knows that Petyr is the one that got her out of King's Landing. She plays along until she knows more, but she still isn't sure who she can trust. Too snakebitten by all the shit that happened to her to this point, but she's growing.
In the show, if I had to guess Sansa's motivations, the reason she spills the beans about who she really is and then protects Littlefinger with the lie about Lysa's death is because she's simultaneously tired of hiding her true identity but also knows that if she tells the truth about Littlefinger murdering Lysa, then those nobles take the Vale over and she's just a pawn being shuffled around. Ultimately, by revealing herself to them and still protecting Petyr, she sets herself up more as an equal to him, someone he now can't harm or touch without the suspicion overwhelming him. Lysa's death could be an accident, but Sansa's? And after she gave them a version of events? He wouldn't escape the scrutiny another time.
Also, because Sansa is there and The Vale was allied with Winterfell because of Jon Arryn and his relationship with Ned and Robert when they were kids (they both grew up in the Vale), they're going to be sympathetic to her and hide her from the Lannisters. Letting everyone know she's there means they either have to give her up when the Lannies come calling or they have to go to war, and neither outcome is going to be desirable.
All in all, Sansa gambled and played a dangerous card and it was a pretty shrewd political move. She's learned from the intrigues at King's Landing.
In my view, and here's the ultimate answer to our question Mags, she did it because by allying herself with Littlefinger in the current circumstances and also making it difficult for him to simply use her as a pawn in his own game, she is able to exert a little power and have some authority about what happens to her next. With these other nobles, she has no idea what happens to her. With Littlefinger, she believes she can be more involved with what happens to her next.
The change doesn't significantly change the events of the story, as I imagine the pieces will all go where they're still supposed to go, and the secrecy allows the knowledge from ever becoming public, which would otherwise significantly change the way the story unfolds. These would be seismic disturbances to the original story, and I don't believe (again, just speculation) the showrunners are going to deviate all that much. They know it works, and they seem to be loyal to Martin's books.
From a creative standpoint, my guess is that the showrunners understand that television audiences would probably have just gotten frustrated with Sansa all over again if she hadn't grown at all from her experiences in King's Landing. This way, she can be a more aggressive character and show growth. In a book, you can show inner growth and strength without having to make bold moves because you're in the character's head. But to TV audiences, continuing to tell that same story without at least a LITTLE strength emerging might just frustrate them. I think it was a good change, given the difference in pacing between TV shows and novels.
An excellent point of view of current events, thanks for sharing Taiso.
I wasn't sure if Sansa was angling Baelish for a future move against the Lannisters or not.
I probably could have worded it better but I was more concerned with putting the thoughts down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magician
I don't know that she's overly angling Baelish to do anything. I think both book Sansa and TV Sansa are both smarter than to think she can force him to do anything, or even trick him into anything. Nothing is going to sway him from his desire, whatever that may be. I think this is just Sansa trying to survive and increase her own value, as well as send a message to Petyr that she isn't going to be so easily pushed out of a moon door once he's done using her for his own ambitions.
Ever since the beginning of the TV show, Sansa Stark has been the most shrewd of all the players in the "Game of Thrones".
LMAO not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
Stop trollin'.
Sansa has always known what to say, and when to say it.
Go back and look at the record.
Material always gets changed around when transferring from book(or comic book) to TV. Even the Walking Dead TV series is considerably off from the comic.
I never read the books and recently binge watched the entire series to get caught up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy KGB
Some people who read the books act like they are clairvoyant or something. Then they get all butthurt when the show deviates from the books.
I thought the show was outrageous and gratuitous from the very first episode so it kind of surprises me when there is outrage over something this late into the series. I was outraged from the start and all most gave up on the series and then, well, Khaleesi ;)
You know nothing, norton9478.Quote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
Please stop trollin'.
It just so happens Arya Stark has been the most lethal warrior all along. Who knew?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Only me, nobody else had a clue....
Attachment 14955
It was intentionally done that way since Day One with Walking Dead period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylotron
I'm in the middle of book 2 now. Book one was on tape thanks to Taiso's recommendation but I found myself unable to pay proper attention during traffic so it's back to print. I was never into the fantasy genre so I did not even know of the books' existence until the show started. After seeing the first season right as it came out, I felt that the amount of surprise I would achieve from watching the TV shows raw and then following up with the books would be a better fit for me.
I thought I had been conditioned by Baelor and the Red Wedding, but I was still wrongly seeking "justice" in a world where it's not conveniently dispensed. So the ending was still a surprise to me and dramatically wrapped up one of the best episodes of the season.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...59130881_n.jpg
why didn't anyone else post this here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi
Ookitarepanda original piece?
I already miss Oberyn. What a way to go. :(
In case you're wondering, all the book talk has pretty much scared me off this topic. I'm sure you book readers have done your best to not spoil the show for the rest of us, but I'd rather not take any chances.
A game of porn is quite an ok show - stupid that they put all this extra porn scenes in that make absolutely no sense story wise and haven't been in the books, when the books are full of the stuff anyways. Oh well - I guess JRR will pull a Robert Jordan anyways and I'll again be left disappointed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7lp3RhzfgI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
Read the books then. Get the books on audio. Just catch up.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi
I'd rather watch and enjoy the show blindly than be one of those book readers who bitch and complain that the show is not living up to the books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi
This is a ridiculous statement, and I'm just being candid here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
Your comment automatically takes the stance that because you read the books, you'll automatically hate the TV series.
This is by no means an absolute and your logic is flawed.
It's not hate. It's just candid talk. Stop boxing yourself into preconceived notions of thinking just because you see other people acting a certain way.
Easy there dude. I didn't mean to generalize all book readers. I just know a few who have read the books and they never seemed satisfied with the show. They complain about certain parts being overlooked, certain characters omitted, and certain characters not having having their story lines properly fleshed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Like I said, I prefer going in blindly and enjoy the show.
I did start and finish the first book, but decided to stop there. I might go back and catch up to where S4 ends (after the next 2 episodes are done).
Honestly, it just sounds to me more like you are annoyed by 'those' people' that are calling out something you like. and the comment is you passively-aggressively taking a shot at them for being that way. But the way you phrased it suggests that there is no way around it for you; that once you read the books, you'll be hating on the TV show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
The show and the books are both great, but different.
Obviously the books have more depth, the storytelling has an opaque quality, and the reader is really swept along by the strong undercurrent of the narrative.
However, the point-of-view style in the books is a double-edged sword.
The writers on the show have flexibility to explore characters that are on the periphery of the books, because in the books if you ain't a point-of-view you ain't shit.
The show is actually starting to delve into material ahead of the narrative in the books, e.g. with Theon.
Its an unpopular opinion, but my favorite book (thus far) was Feast for Crows.
I can say with 100% certainty that people who haven't read the books get only 50% out of each episode. Let's call those people "The Illiterati". The Illiterati don't have the benefit of understanding motives.
"Why was it so easy for Daenerys to banish Jorah?" Because you didn't read the books.
"Tyrion was speechless after the Mountain fought the Viper." Actually he had an AMAZING line, but you don't read.
Reading the books lets you get the perspectives of the characters and understand them more. Watching the show is great because seeing your imagination, from what you read, rendered on a screen is cool as shit. And Game of Thrones does that so well because GRRM writes in a way that people see what he's seeing. That's great writing.
So if you are proud not to read the books, stop. It's like virgins proud of jerking off.
Untrue. Varys isn't a POV character in the novels. Would you say he doesn't matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickrb
Littlefinger doesn't have a POV chapter either. I'd say he's important.
Manse Rayder? Tywin Lannister? Sandor Cleggane?
All major characters. None with a POV.
As for going off on tangents with characters that aren't major in the books, that is a flawed argument because the show is already wasting time with certain scenes and tangential plot points that ultimately won't change the story in any fundamental way.
I'd rather they STOPPED focusing on secondary and tertiary characters, and use that time to mine the novels further and make sure the essential story lines are being played out properly first. Then, if there's any time left over, feel free to put in some pointless conversations with tits.
So was the implication that Tyrion killed his cousin Olsin?
Anyways, some people who "read" the original source then bitch all the time are annoying. Different mediums are going to play out differently. People should just enjoy variations for what they are. SOme can, some can't. The worst are by far Comic Book nerds. They tend to obsess over meaningless details....
"Ohh you can't do that because it is a major plot point in Comic Book Number 166"
You know what? The movie series is never going to cover Comic Book 166. It will reboot well before it gets that far.
That being said, of course the book (not a comic book) is better. The movie is better in only a handful of cases (Upton Sinclair's Oil! for instance).
The greatest drawback of reading the books is that despite putting in the countless hours of reading, we are all on equal ground when it comes to Ramsay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
The actor that plays Ramsay has the best facial expressions on the show. That dude can make you hate him just by smiling.
I didn't say they weren't important. Central to the story doesn't mean the characters are necessarily well developed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
It is true that Varys is well-explored in the books, and in some ways on the show. Tywin sure gets a lot of screen time on the show vs. in the books. The fact that in the books it is Roose Bolton at Harrenhal, for example.
I would say Robb Stark is a great example of an under-explored and somewhat one-dimensional character in the books. More of a symbol or narrative crux than a person, really. Do I think they did a great job with him on the show? No, but at least they tried to make him human.