I somehow managed to not watch any of season 3 until yesterday. I just had way too much shit going on. But last night I downloaded 9 episodes and just finished #9 today. I was surprised to read that somebody (was it Taiso or wasabi up there?) was impressed that they fit it a lot from a book into this season, because I felt things moved kind of slow this season, story-wise. I'm kind of bummed there's only one more episode of this season. I may just read the books to be done with it.
You should read the books, they're excellent.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/09/justic...man/index.html
the comments section... lol
Good episode.
As a season finale, weak as hell.
Yea, these season finales ending with Denerys (on shit I don't care about) need to stop.
Fuck, Ramsay Bolton is a cunt, and I really wish the series had some payoff....looks like I'll have to wait a couple of years for it though.
My problem with the finale is that as nice as it is to see Danaerys become the mother of the world across the Narrow Sea, there is no catharsis for the audience following events in Westeros.
It's unbelievable how badly they've botched Jon Snow. He is a pale shadow of the character you read about in the books. If the fourth season doesn't correct this, I may very well may not watch it after next year. So much of what made the third book special was seeing him come of age. It was truly mythic to see him evolve. If the TV show were wildly deviating from the books, this might not matter as much, but as the narrative and key events have been pretty spot on in every other respect, the only explanation for this is just bad plotting.
There was absolutely no payoff, no reward, for the audience to tune in after last week. They did nothing to make you feel any better about any of it.
At least with the end of the second season, you had a really cool type of 'oh shit' moment that you hadn't seen before with all of those zombies and white walkers. It felt like something different for the show, and surprisingly...it worked very well.
HBO really screwed it hard here. Like I said, a good episode. But you needed a MUCH stronger finale after what they showed last week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Man, fucking Belwas. WTF dude.
Something you said last week was touched on tonight's episode, by Tywin. Robb didn't die because he sacrificed a shred of his honor, and neither did Ned. They died because they didn't put their house first. They put a part of themselves first. In Ned's case, it was his desire for justice. In Robb's it was his love interest.
Another thought -
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My only legitimate problem with the scene between
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Probably the most clumsy sequence in the entire episode:
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And this is symptomatic of the problem I am developing with the narrative of the TV show (although I still really like it):
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Ultimately, I feel that if last night had been two hours of what we saw, it would at least have felt like the momentous occasion a finale is supposed to be. At least two hours of table setting would have felt a bit more momentous. But with an hour to go, and after the Red Wedding, the mission should have been to send the audience off in more than just a passive 'well, let's wait and see' mood. I am glad they didn't end the season with the Red Wedding, however. While shocking, it would have been too much.
lol at the imagery of slipping in one's own shit.
My problem with the episode was really the ending. It wasn't in the book, and it seemed like an advertisement for Massengil.
Definitely a letdown. The only good banter came with Tywin and Tyrion discussing the importance of the house over an individual. I felt more should have been filled in on Melisandra's latest visions within the fire. I didn't expect the finale to live up to the last two years, or even last week, but it definitely felt like a midpoint from a Walking Dead season rather than a true finale that leave you gasping for nine months.
each season progressively gets weaker. or maybe it's that season 1 was something new to me, and now, two seasons later, the magic's worn off a bit.
that said, still had a good watch.
maybe the problem is, is that there's so much going on, it's hard to care about anyone. maybe this is why i don't give a shit about daenarys. it's so hard to care about her ambition when she's half a world away and all of her actions have no repercussions whatsoever.
the hound was my favorite character this season. i liked him from the start, but when he said FUCK THE QUEEN, that's when i knew he wasn't the hound any longer. to me, i think he's the most interesting character. what are his motivations now?
jaime's road to redemption, spilling his guts to brienne in the bathhouse, that was good. where does the man go from here? how has he fundamentally changed? has he?
i haven't read the books. i'd love to. i think the emotional weight when ygritte confronted jon and jon just tried to explain everything, that was tough, man.
what is the ultimate aim of this story, though? for all the kingdoms to unite against the white walkers? and then what?
i've listened to the ending credits music from the last episode for like ten minutes now.
PS griffith suffered worse than theon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaD8rouJn0#t=293
man... so much good stuff in this.
NSFW
has spoilers.
favorite parts:
"Imp Slap!"
and
"R+L=J. You guys who read the books know what I mean."
I'm going to pass on the link since I haven't read the books.
Can't wait for the new episodes. It's going to be weird seeing different actors play Daario and "The Mountain".
Apparently, this will be the third actor to play Clegane. I didn't even notice the second with everything that's going on in the show.
My favorites:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papi Jandro
"A mopey bastard who knows nothing."
"Carl Drago"
"We hope the author doesn't eat himself to death before he finishes the series" (w/slow pan in on his beer gut)
"Lord Friend Zone"
Stephen King ended up being the current Twitter villain of the week for spoiling "The Lion and The Rose" episode ending. I can't wait until Dark Tower gets picked up for a series and someone immediately starts tweeting "hey Roland dies and Gilead burns in flames, enjoy the show!" (I dunno if that really happens, just kidding all you King fans). It would just be hilarious to see King's reaction.
On topic: loved the triangle of Joffrey, Tyrian, and Sansa. Likewise with The Hound, Arya, and the bald dude whose name I'm too lazy to look up. The detail in the dwarf costumes for the battle re-enactment was superb.
Spoiler:
The episode left a lot of stuff out. It was clumsy and awkward.
Couple of things -
too much is shown of Ramsey Snow. The Reek segments are terrible. They should be insinuated, not shown.
The level of fear was fumbled in the wedding. Joffrey never told Sansa that he was going to still visit her chambers and torture her.
The show is feeling tired suddenly.
Glad I decided to not read the books.
Seems like most book readers hate the show due to certain cutbacks, even though it's one of the most expensive shows ever filmed.
As a non-book reader, I think the season has been excellent so far. Can't wait to see where the season goes from here.
That's by no means a universal sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
A Song of Ice and Fire is my favorite fantasy series written by a western author, second only to Berserk in my book, and I'm enjoying the show just fine.
It's not a perfect adaptation but I like it.
sure doesn't follow the book.. blah blah(then again, what book - film adaptation actually followed the book 100%?).
all I can say is I'm glad Joffrey is finally gone.
You know whats really screwing up the show for me? My growing familiarity with the actors.
Surely an inevitable consequence of the shows success, butSpoiler:
When just a year ago it could have been THE most cathartic bit of payoff I've ever seen or read in any piece of fiction. Ever.
]
It feels like an organic event to me. It doesn't feel like Martin righting the scales or rewarding the fans. I don't think it's meant to be a carthatic event for the audience. I think it's meant to be karmic as it pertains to that world: there are a lot of people that wouldn't mind seeing this happen so that grown ups can run the kingdom and stop the continual embarrassments to the crown and everyone in service to it. It's just a consequence of the way Cercei raised him and the way he acted. That's why, even though it was satisfying, it doesn't feel like an obligatory payoff. It was the same in the books for me when I read it.
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that Joe Average is probably very satisfied with this event. It's a miracle that a show like this even plays to huge audiences-most just want stale sitcoms and tired contemporary crime dramas. The success of shows like this and The Waling Dead is encouraging-it shows that there is an audience for this stuff when handled well enough to continually engage them. The show isn't necessarily written for discerning audiences that think about things on multiple levels, although Thrones stands up to that scrutiny generally better than The Walking Dead.
His death was consequential, not intentional. I get that.
I only labelled it as "payoff" on account of my own emotional investments, not Martins writing style.
Maybe I'm using the term incorrectly?
It's completely understandable that you may get invested in a narrative arc and then not be entirely thrilled with the resolution. You're good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poonman
I wasn't specificallhy trying to point-counterpoint. It was more that you said something and it made me think about it: was the event satisfactory? Did I feel a cathartic payoff? I can't say I did, because I would have preferred a much more bloody and violent payoff than that. But that's the beautiful thing about historical fiction or fantasy written as pseudo-historical fiction. 'Better than they deserve' deaths happened in history all the time, and a lot of it had a karmic element when viewed in retrospect.
Sort of like King Henry V dying of dysentery, the bane of armies and the ender of wars up to the 20th century. I believe that the true cause of his death may be in question now, but for a long time that was the commonly attributed cause. Dude is a highly romanticized king, but he did some prety heinous shit while being labeled a' great monarch.' A miserable death was probably not as satisfying to those he slighted, but I'm sure they saw it as some form of divine retribution or providence.
I guess the initial shock and fear of some caustic poison painfully shutting down your body (on your wedding day) is pretty badass when compared to say....Augusto Pinochet dying quick and painlessly at the age of 91 (without ever seeing the inside of a prison).
I am kind of bummed that the HBO people decided to completely dump Strong Belwas, and give his story over to Daario. In the books, that scene in Meereen where Daenerys picks a champion to face off against the lancer from Meereen was supposed to be with Belwas. It was a fantastic moment in the book. In the show, forgettable. And that is almost the tone for this season.
Forgettable.
I am not hating the season, but it's like the writers emasculating the source material with full conscious effort. I feel bad for the people who didn't read the books.
I find myself frustrated with them building scenes and dialogue where they aren't necessary while Jon Snow, a character that needs more screen time, continues to get the shaft.
That entire sequence with Sam and Gilly last night was completely unnecessary. It was, what, nearly ten minutes of screen time? And for what?
I will admit that Jon Snow is my favorite character in the books. and that may make my complaint seem subjective. But the reason he is my favorite character in the books is because Martin does all the right things to show his growth both in wisdom and skill. Also, Jon really takes charge of every situation he's in and he becomes 'the man' in so many instances.
In the TV show, he continues to be a bystander in his own story. I don't understand why the showrunners are doing this with Jon. I can't even hate on Harrington for his performance: the script and plotting just haven't given him any opportunity to grow into the leading man he is in the books. Do these fuckers even remember that he has an albino dire wolf watching his back at every turn? Where is Ghost? He had so much more of a presence in the books and he really lent Jon an air of importance and uniqueness. In the TV show, he's just another young member of the Night's Watch taking abuse from the idiots in charge.
In all other respects, I'm still enjoying it. When I watch, the show, I never realize where the time goes. I guess that's a good sign.
RE: Strong Belwas being replaced by Daario for that fight
To this day, I still don't understand why some version of Strong Belwas can't be in the TV show. What are the showrunners so afraid of? Showing a large black man that used to be a gladiator slave as a free man who indulges in food and drink and has a lust for life? Is this show really afraid of being labeled racist by some ignorant minority, given all the other ways in which it efforts to portray everyone as equals in terms of human worth, and that injustices are the fault of fictional characters and not cultural flaws of the plotting/writing?
I am getting the idea that whoever is in charge of GoT doesn't know what she's doing, or she's purposefully using the source material to make something more palatable for the masses who can't read good, but want to do other stuff good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Glad I haven't read the books. Seems the book readers online hate the way the show is going.
I'm enjoying the season so far, but not like before.
My only complain so far is with Dany's storyline. I'm seriously bored with the whole "travel to the new city and free the slaves" plot. Unless something major happens, I don't see why any of this can't be condensed to a simple 10 second dialog explaining what is happening.
Why would other book readers that 'hate' the TV show make you glad you haven't reading the books? What a strange thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
BTW, the scenes with Dany freeing slaves are important because they are ultimately building towards the kind of person and leader she is going to be. You haven't seen the parts of the story where her every action wisens her up and hardens her to the harsh realities of being a ruler. This is all actually pretty important, even though it may seem like it's not and even though some will inevitably say 'it still wasn't that important to show all that.' These people aren't interested in storytelling, world building and character development. They're just interested in plot, which is a terrible way to consume a story IMO.
I understand her importance in freeing slaves are concerned, and I do hope the tv show does a better representation of her motives, but this storyline (as a non book-reader), has dragged for much too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Right now (as a non book reader), I'm more interested in what's happening with Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, and Arya.
I think you mean Bron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
Regarding Dany's arc, there is a kind of payoff to all of this, but it's not at all what you'll be expecting. Or maybe you will, but I have a strong feeling most viewers will not see it coming. Right now, she's still thinking about becoming queen of Westeros and reclaiming her birthright and being very idealistic. What comes next is yet another example of how the world works from Martin's pen. It's cool, but I'm fairly certain a lot of Dany fans will either be let down or confused. All of my coworkers are all eager to see her get across the Narrow Sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
I just chuckle at them.
Do you not read books in general or do you not want to read these books specifically because you'd rather watch the TV show first?
taiso i'mma slice your throat unless you tell me what happens to dany in the books. spoiler tag, do anything, but i wanna know, bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneSage
Spoiler:
BUTQuote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews
Spoiler:
'sage, if you're being serious (long read):
Spoiler:
EDIT: The fact that Castor Troy isn't intersted in Jon Snow's arc shows you how badly the TV show fucked his story up. In the books, he's consistently doing some of the most interesting stuff in the entire series.
Most people are more interested in Bron turning into a wolf, but they are going to be pissed when he turns into a tree.
Ok, I'm glad you guys have explained a few of the confusing bits. I kept wondering what happened to Ghost. I thought that maybe he's somewhere just chewing on a deer and chilling out. This Belwas character also sounds better written than Daario. Speaking of which, anyone else frustrated that the repacement Daario looks nothing like the one from Season 3? I had to explain this to my fiancee's family and they just got even more confused. I was vetoed when I tried to draw a small map explaining the location of the slave cities.
Question for Was or Taiso: without spoiling much, do the books do a better job of explaining what happens to the slave cities once they're freed by Dany? I realize the show is glossing over a lot of the smaller bits, but I felt that they needed to address how exactly all the slaves are traveling with Dany and getting fed/housed/etc, as well as how cities like Quarth and Yunkai are able to continue to survive after having their populations uprooted and hegemony disrupted.
Finally starting the second book this week. Just don't want to get ahead of the show. But I'll likely catch up at the point where he releases the latest book. Otherwise spoilers may become very mainstream similar to what happened to the TWD TV viewers when Issue 100 came out.
In the books, the freeing of the cities is a complete mess. The books explain this through the perspective of Dany and her thoughts about what's going on. As a television audience, you are denied this insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Mikhail
RE: Ghost off doing 'his own thing'-Even in the books, he is off doing his own thing, but the narrative always has him present at important moments to remind you that he's still around and is an eerie force in Jon's life. After Robb's death, the narrative goes out of its way to remind you that it's only when the wolves are near their adopted brothers and sisters that they are safe:
Look what happened to Sansa w/out Lady. Or look what Arya's going through without Nymeria. Bran and Rickon don't have it much better but at least they are relatively safe, comparatively speaking, and in the company of friends. As long as Ghost is with Jon, he is as safe as he can be in that situation. And he's protected. In the TV show, it almost feels like Ghost has done more for Sam than he has for Jon, and there is something wrong with that. Even the way Ghost has been portrayed as sort of aloof as it concerns Jon is just bad writing. Wolves are pack animals and they are strongest when closest to their kin. The books make sure the reader remembers that, and it's a fundamental element of the Stark children's storyline.
RE: Dany freeing all the slaves and the logistics of their caravan-I have a feeling this will all be given greater examination in the TV show after all the fighting's done. In order to highlight the next challenge Dany faces, they'll have to at least mention it in some detail to further illustrate the coming dilemmas.
RE: Strong Belwas as a more interesting character than Daario-I wouldn't necessarily say he's a more interesting character. Daario is very closely tied with Dany's narrative, whereas Strong Belwas is just a big dude that likes to laugh and get drunk and just so happens to be a battle hardened warrior. Removing him from the storyline doesn't really damage the narrative flow in any significant way, but his presence was fun and everything he said put a smile on my face. He was a colorful cnaracter, and I hope they find a way to bring him back into the mix.
RE: Recasting Daario-I'm glad they did it before they got too saddled with that poor man's Fabio. The new guy has a much better chemistry with Emilia Clarke than the previous guy did. That guy was just far too pretty and not dangerous looking enough. Daario is a dangerous person for Dany to be involved with, and they needed to cast someone that could pull off the complexity of their relationship better. Plus, he looks the way Daario is supposed to look. Not every character has to look identical to their book versions. Ser Jorrah Mormont, for example, looks vastly different in the TV show. In the book, he's a middle aged balding dude with some weight on him. In this show, he's more distinguished and handsome looking in a rugged way. If the actor is good enough and enough of the character dynamic can be retained, it's cool. But that guy they cast as Daario in season three wasa train wreck waiting to happen. Could have been a really bad jump the shark moment (sorry to use that old phrase). Glad they got rid of him, personally.
none of them have a blue tipped triple goatee though.
Nope. For the most part I'm kind of disappointed with the way characters look in the showQuote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews
Count the cuts and you will know how many Strong Belwas has slain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews
Emilia Clarke’s acting is also very meh. Very shallow subplot in the show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews
They could've at least made this accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews
Emily Clark's acting is a direct result of the directing and producing of the show; they're going all Jon Snow on us, knowing jack shit nothing about how to make the show right.
They might as well just get on with it and introduce the vampires wearing skinny jeans and hip glasses, and make Danaerys turn her attention to growing and selling milk of the poppy in order to raise money to feed her peoples.
They need to make a spinoff show about Bran escaping from King's Landing and becoming a sheriff in rural Pennsylvania, fighting the local crazy Amish and other criminals.
LTTP
I only began watching the series these past couple weeks. So far I've watched all of season three and what has been released of season four. I'll get around to seasons one and two eventually although my friends have spoiled most of what happened in them. At first I just ignored the series...believing it was nothing more than HBO's attempt to pull a piece of the attention from Starz's Sparticus series.
I was wrong.
I'm completely flabbergasted by your post, Mags.
You are waaaaaaaaaaay too smart a person to display this degree of media ignorance.
Nintendo damaged you, I think. Hopefully not beyond repair.
first of all I've not read thru this entire thread so if it's already discussed get over it lol
anyways, about the white walker that just took the baby, the one riding the horse.
didn't he take a knife (dragon glass) to the back and shatter into a million pieces last season??????