What's happening in Spain could be done in the US?

Spain's situation: massive family bankrupcy, banks being richer than ever and hoarding homes at ridiculous prices, families losing that homes and a life's savings, unemployed people is rising very quick, we have the worst politicians ever...
Does that happen -more or less- also in the US, right?

Take a look at what Spain is doing:
http://www.elpais.com/fotogaleria/Pr...punac_3/Zes/62

Even Washington Post shows this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays...5-19&bk=A&pg=1

It doesn't matter if you're young, old, snob or hippie... democracy means you can express your dissapointment with politicians and bankers. A new pacific revolution of people's rights.

Could it be possible in the US? Afaik, you're screwed up also, right?

I'll be honest.

I was interested, then I clicked the links - I have no idea what I'm supposed to be reading/looking at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by distropia

Spain's situation: massive family bankrupcy, banks being richer than ever and hoarding homes at ridiculous prices, families losing that homes and a life's savings, unemployed people is rising very quick, we have the worst politicians ever...
Does that happen -more or less- also in the US, right?

Take a look at what Spain is doing:
http://www.elpais.com/fotogaleria/Pr...punac_3/Zes/62

Even Washington Post shows this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays...5-19&bk=A&pg=1

It doesn't matter if you're young, old, snob or hippie... democracy means you can express your dissapointment with politicians and bankers. A new pacific revolution of people's rights.

Could it be possible in the US? Afaik, you're screwed up also, right?

---

I heard about the Spanish protests a bit here and there (esp. on Reddit and then the NYT), but it sounds sort of unfocused.

The US doesn't have quite the same economic problems Spain does --it doesn't have the same level of unemployment, either.

Still, I give mad props for this sign:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...d2-blog480.jpg


Here's their manifesto in English:

Quote:

---

Manifesto (English)
We are ordinary people. We are like you: people, who get up every morning to study, work or find a job, people who have family and friends. People, who work hard every day to provide a better future for those around us.

Some of us consider ourselves progressive, others conservative. Some of us are believers, some not. Some of us have clearly defined ideologies, others are apolitical, but we are all concerned and angry about the political, economic, and social outlook which we see around us: corruption among politicians, businessmen, bankers, leaving us helpless, without a voice.

This situation has become normal, a daily suffering, without hope. But if we join forces, we can change it. It’s time to change things, time to build a better society together. Therefore, we strongly argue that:

• The priorities of any advanced society must be equality, progress, solidarity, freedom of culture, sustainability and development, welfare and people’s happiness.
• These are inalienable truths that we should abide by in our society: the right to housing, employment, culture, health, education, political participation, free personal development, and consumer rights for a healthy and happy life.
• The current status of our government and economic system does not take care of these rights, and in many ways is an obstacle to human progress.
• Democracy belongs to the people (demos = people, krátos = government) which means that government is made of every one of us. However, in Spain most of the political class does not even listen to us. Politicians should be bringing our voice to the institutions, facilitating the political participation of citizens through direct channels that provide the greatest benefit to the wider society, not to get rich and prosper at our expense, attending only to the dictatorship of major economic powers and holding them in power through a bipartidism headed by the immovable acronym PP & PSOE.
• Lust for power and its accumulation in only a few; create inequality, tension and injustice, which leads to violence, which we reject. The obsolete and unnatural economic model fuels the social machinery in a growing spiral that consumes itself by enriching a few and sends into poverty the rest. Until the collapse.
• The will and purpose of the current system is the accumulation of money, not regarding efficiency and the welfare of society. Wasting resources, destroying the planet, creating unemployment and unhappy consumers.
• Citizens are the gears of a machine designed to enrich a minority which does not regard our needs. We are anonymous, but without us none of this would exist, because we move the world.
• If as a society we learn to not trust our future to an abstract economy, which never returns benefits for the most, we can eliminate the abuse that we are all suffering.
• We need an ethical revolution. Instead of placing money above human beings, we shall put it back to our service. We are people, not products. I am not a product of what I buy, why I buy and who I buy from.

For all of the above, I am outraged.
I think I can change it.
I think I can help.
I know that together we can.I think I can help.

I know that together we can.

---

It sounds like pretty unfocused disappointment with the system without outlining a solution, beyond a vaguely defined "ethical revolution" aimed at their economic system.

This may or may not be a related question: but is marijuana legal in Spain?

They're pissed off and they're not gonna take it anymore.

I see a few Teenagers in College always talk about revolution.

But they're just TiC.

They're making a huge popular assembly to elaborate a big list with the points they want to change. This sunday is (local) electoral day and they're proposing not to vote any of the two main political parties. This is not a two day flame, its gonna be a long war against the politics and banks. It is not logical to be on crisis and politics and bankers raise their salary. Something similar to what happens here in the US with the business men on big banks and assurance corporations.

K, ill just go on not knowing.

Just a bunch of sheepish whiners, if you ask me.

What we need is substantial, qualitative change, beginning with a new constitution that rectifies the many structural errors of the present one. One of those, for example, is the fact that unlike Germany, whose federal system is based on the principle of symmetry (i.e. every state has the same privileges and competences), our seventeen comunidades autónomas (i.e. states) are very, very far from being equal in terms of competences or, what is worse, representation in parliament.

Main reason I emigrated; of everyone I knew back in college, only the ones who went abroad made made something of themselves. Hell, one of my best friends is an MBA whose only job in the last 5 years has been to lug suitcases at the airport, and he considers himself lucky!

Eurosclerosis is best seen in the football leagues where two or three cubs hold all the money and power and farm talent from the rest of the league as those small teams teeter on administration, hoping for some kind of a payout.

And the people too are just there to provide for the rich families that own that continent.

The people deserve better. But it only starts with a bloody revolution where they drag the rich out and skin them alive, man woman and snobbish children.

There's a lot of things we have to change in this world. Talkin' bout Spain, we have to change the laboral system completely. The actual spanish system is against competitivity, a lot of taxes to be paid before you even start a business, a lot of burocracy, and if you hire someone else he can be your worst enemy. The syndicates are part of the problem.

I don't really understand how we can have international super businesses like Telefonica, and all the energy monsters.

Once you live outside, you see things in a very different way.

In the US the people we should have our eyes on are the stealth-legions of aging baby-boomers who aren't going to go out quietly and with stoicism like the 'greatest generation' who were raised in the great depression and not the camelot of JFK or thereabouts.

These fuckers are going to make the AARP into something that isn't going to be pleasant for any of us young people.

Think about it.

That's why you should opt not to pay social security tax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2xuSHdjZ00

Time to bring back the Lincoln Brigades!

Maybe I should have titled this thread: "are we sheeps shepherded by politicians and bankers?"

I'm still not sure what's going on, so I'll just throw on some gasoline:

This whole thing would have never happened had Catalan independence been granted.

Free Catalonia from Spanish tyranny!

¡Visca Catalunya lliure!

To our Basque comrades: Elkartasuna/Solidaritat!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broback

I'm still not sure what's going on, so I'll just throw on some gasoline:

This whole thing would have never happened had Catalan independence been granted.

Free Catalonia from Spanish tyranny!

¡Visca Catalunya lliure!

To our Basque comrades: Elkartasuna/Solidaritat!

---

Oh, fuck off already, Bobak!

:angry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lovecraft0110

Oh, fuck off already, Bobak!

:angry:

---

Says the traitor who abandoned his motherland!


These colors don't run:

http://i.imgur.com/DHXRk.gif

:kekeke:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by distropia

Maybe I should have titled this thread: "are we sheeps shepherded by politicians and bankers?"

---

Trouble is that the influence of bank trusts, the industry and their butt-buddies in various political parties is an integral part of the current system in Spain and elsewhere. If we want to change it, we first have to change ourselves. That's why I support the Spanish revolution movement and hope it will spill over to Germany as well. There's similar anger bubbling in the cauldron over here, it's time to release it.

Fuck the system. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agent Sands

Eurosclerosis is best seen in the football leagues where two or three cubs hold all the money and power and farm talent from the rest of the league as those small teams teeter on administration, hoping for some kind of a payout.

And the people too are just there to provide for the rich families that own that continent.

The people deserve better. But it only starts with a bloody revolution where they drag the rich out and skin them alive, man woman and snobbish children.

---

i'd love to see the galacticos dragged out and skinned alive on the streets of madrid by a bunch of angry deportivo coruna fans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broback

Says the traitor who abandoned his motherland!


These colors don't run:

http://i.imgur.com/DHXRk.gif

:kekeke:

---

Arrrghhh...

-Throws arms up in exasperation-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Spanish_protests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broback

The US doesn't have quite the same economic problems Spain does --it doesn't have the same level of unemployment, either

---

I'd guess it's probably the same if the US was honest about our unemployment numbers.

Europe in general takes the "are you of working age, able bodied, yet not working ?" as you're unemployed.

We have an entire check list of reason why a middle aged person in perfect health who is out of work and wants work will not be counted as unemployed when we release the stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lovecraft0110

Arrrghhh...

-Throws arms up in exasperation-

---

:HUGZ: ;)

I just want to Cruz on over to Penelope when I think of Espania and it's palefaced, dark eyed women...

Spain is in a much different situation than the US.

I'm slightly happy with the economic issues in Europe. The Euro is at an all time low....
It's selfish i know... but still....

It'll be interesting to see how not voting works out for them.

My guess is the right wing party will win handily and the protesters will get even less in unemployment benefits, leading to further protests

yes, of course it could happen here, all you have to do is take a quick look at the numbers

europe is a little ahead of us, in that they've begun to face reality (i.e. they realized that they're going to have to start shitting all over the taxpayer)

we're still papering over the problem amassing ridiculous deficits (~12% annually with a 2-3% growth rate), but it's just a matter of time before the bond vigilantes start to get nervous, and the cost of servicing our debt goes through the roof. china is already starting to dump its holdings quietly

then we'll be looking at another "unprecedented event" that "no one could've seen coming"

and then our president will come on TV and tell us that we need to stick together while they stick it to us

sorry folks, we're doubling your taxes, slashing your already shitty benefits, and .... yeah, we're gonna be raising the retirement age 'til sometime after your dead

then people start starving, and have nothing to lose, then they take to the streets

At least in Europe you get something to show for being screwed on taxes. That's where the US's very soon future is going to differ.

We're going to be taxed to death and back, but we'll see nothing in return for it. No healthcare, less unemployment payouts, less social services. On the bright side, we'll still be fighting terrorism and lining banker CEO pockets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abasuto

No healthcare, less unemployment payouts, less social services.

---

Even in Europe, those that could afford to offer good social services are socialist nations with a 70-90% tax rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNKorSWM

Even in Europe, those that could afford to offer good social services are socialist nations with a 70-90% tax rate.

---

There's no socialist government in Europe. Surely you mean social-democratic?

Here are some current maximum tax rates (meaning that 80% of the people of the respective countries pay considerably less than that): Sweden (56%), Belgium (54%), The Netherlands (52%), Great Britain (50%), Germany (48%), France (46%) (Source: Eurostat). With my meager income, I have to pay about 28-30% tax. The streets would burn if we'd have to pay 80% or even 90% tax, eh.

Oh, and the reason why the Euro goes down in value is because of the crises in Greece and Portugal, the two fucked up their finances and the rest of the EU has to pay for it, simple as that. This will go on for a while I fear...

God, I hate that Euro bullshit. Burn in hell, Waigel!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takumaji

There's no socialist government in Europe. Surely you mean social-democratic?

Here are some current maximum tax rates (meaning that 80% of the people of the respective countries pay considerably less than that): Sweden (56%), Belgium (54%), The Netherlands (52%), Great Britain (50%), Germany (48%), France (46%) (Source: Eurostat). With my meager income, I have to pay about 28-30% tax. The streets would burn if we'd have to pay 80% or even 90% tax, eh.

Oh, and the reason why the Euro goes down in value is because of the crises in Greece and Portugal, the two fucked up their finances and the rest of the EU has to pay for it, simple as that. This will go on for a while I fear...

God, I hate that Euro bullshit. Burn in hell, Waigel!!

---

yep and ireland are on the way down with portugal. if only we coulda won the eurovision we need the money. a lot more than azerbaijan does. shoulda entered johnnie logan again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Terry

yep and ireland are on the way down with portugal. if only we coulda won the eurovision we need the money. a lot more than azerbaijan does. shoulda entered johnnie logan again.

---

Ah yes, forgot to mention our broke Irish friends!

Btw., Eurovision is bullshit lie. Those East Euro states always vote for eachother, that's how Azerbaijan won. We only won in 2010 because of Lena's nude pics... :tickled:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takumaji

Ah yes, forgot to mention our broke Irish friends!

Btw., Eurovision is bullshit lie. Those East Euro states always vote for eachother, that's how Azerbaijan won. We only won in 2010 because of Lena's nude pics... :tickled:

---

ireland is always broke, save for a few years in the late 90's/early 00's when the country was like a cowboy on payday spending it up, making it rain all over the EU.

and yeah the eurovision is a waste of time, first time watching it this year, three hours of former soviet states voting for other former soviets and anyone in western europe just sat there, fucked. i honestly thought iceland and italy were the best, but doesn't seem to matter what with the block voting. also the fact that half of the polish nation immigrated to ireland in the past 10 years and they don't give us a thing! its a total bullshit lie. i wouldn't watch it but my girlfriend loves it. probably because she's irish and they won every thing in the 90's according to her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Terry

and yeah the eurovision is a waste of time, first time watching it this year, three hours of former soviet states voting for other former soviets and anyone in western europe just sat there, fucked. i honestly thought iceland and italy were the best, but doesn't seem to matter what with the block voting. also the fact that half of the polish nation immigrated to ireland in the past 10 years and they don't give us a thing! its a total bullshit lie. i wouldn't watch it but my girlfriend loves it. probably because she's irish and they won every thing in the 90's according to her.

---

Heh, I've been watching Eurovision (formerly called Grand Prix d' Eurovision de la Chanson, we still simply call it "Grand Prix") since I was little. It never meant anything to us/me but eventually became some sort of tradition. Most of the time it's incredibly boring, though, except for those countries who don't take things too seriously and bring in a bit of fun, like the Ukraine with that crazy guy Verka Serduchka who came in 2nd in 2007 with Dancing Lasha Tumbai. Silly, mindless fun. Either that or folk, anything else should be avoided during the Grand Prix IMO. And why the hell do they all sing in English by now? Ah well.

I also don't get why the UK always fucks up so dramatically. I mean, they have a powerful and productive music scene, should be possible to come up with something more refined than the usual group-dancing glitter clowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNKorSWM

Even in Europe, those that could afford to offer good social services are socialist nations with a 70-90% tax rate.

---

Fine then. Move to Canada where for many, taxes are a bit less.
And once you include insurance premiums, nearly everybody does better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Terry

yep and ireland are on the way down with portugal. if only we coulda won the eurovision we need the money. a lot more than azerbaijan does. shoulda entered johnnie logan again.

---

haha, Azerbaijan doesn't need money --in fact they probably earmark some of their petro-money to groom the same "pre-packaged" singer to nail Eurovision every year. Someone in the Aliyev family really likes the show.


I saw this yesterday, it made me LOL:

http://i.imgur.com/snwSv.jpg


If anyone reading doesn't know the group, here's the reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXouSYabDig

BTW, the Spanish need to step up their game.

The Mexicans have stolen the spotlight from the Spanish protests in my eyes:

http://i.imgur.com/f3kpG.jpg

i fuckin hate jedward. they're in everything here. nintendo ads, the radio, various TV appearances. they did well for themselves losing the X factor and all, but even so they're a major pain in the ass.

as for the eurovision the only reason azerbaijan won wasn't because they had bankrolled a huge act. their act was complete shit. its that all the little shithole eastern european countries vote for each other, so the bulk of the votes go to little shithole european countries. what needs to be done is the little shitty countries should be given a smaller number of potential points to give than the larger places. though that wouldn't fly because it isn't fair. oh well.

anyways tomorrow is national fish and chips day so fuck the whole eurovision debacle fish and chips for half off!

Catalonia wants independence but also our taxes and our money. Why're you soooo selfish?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broback

I'm still not sure what's going on, so I'll just throw on some gasoline:

This whole thing would have never happened had Catalan independence been granted.

Free Catalonia from Spanish tyranny!

¡Visca Catalunya lliure!

To our Basque comrades: Elkartasuna/Solidaritat!
Says the traitor who abandoned his motherland!


These colors don't run:

:kekeke:

---

You dont even think what you say. Do you think Catalonia or Basque could live without Spain? All the world tends to group forces and you want to be like Andorra... hahahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by distropia

You dont even think what you say. Do you think Catalonia or Basque could live without Spain? All the world tends to group forces and you want to be like Andorra... hahahaha

---

As I said before,

These colors don't run.

Freedom isn't free.

http://i.imgur.com/DHXRk.gif

Stop sending taxes towards, um... Andalusia.

Broback, as I said before: you don't think what you say. If you want to talk about something, do it with the facts in hand.

Coming back to the original theme... The post have lost completely the original point of view: us being shephered by politicians and bankers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broback

BTW, the Spanish need to step up their game.

The Mexicans have stolen the spotlight from the Spanish protests in my eyes:

http://i.imgur.com/f3kpG.jpg

---

That not stepping up the game....this motherfucker just knocked it out of the park and set the stadium on fire.

If he's part of a gang I wanna join it already.

Thank you Mexico for making The Warriors seem just a little more realistic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNKorSWM

Even in Europe, those that could afford to offer good social services are socialist nations with a 70-90% tax rate.

---

Seriously man, where do you get your 90% tax rate from ?

The average person making "average" pay in Europe barely pays any more in taxes then we do here. Remember, it's not just Federal income tax on our plate. SS, Medicare, State tax. After you ad that shit up we're not bringing much more home off a paycheck than Europeans are.

The only reason we don't see shit in return for our taxes is because our military/war budget is 664 billion a year and the interest we pay on the national debt is absolutely raping us. It's forcasted that over the next 10 years, 14-19% of all Federal taxes collected will go towards the debt.

Even the Tea Party influnced hard Republican idea of reducing the debt by 2.5 trillion is nothing. It's asking the car dealer to come down by change. Even if we did reduce it by 2.5 trillion we'd still be paying 12-15% of our tax pool towards the debt.

The US, through both Democrat and Republican leadership has backed us into a corner. Our debt is a brain tumor. You cut it out, we die. Best we can do is ride the storm until we collapse, there's really no fixing this that wouldn't create nationwide chaos.

Just look at those armored beta male pussies firing on that noble mexican badass.

What a great pic. Iconic, even.

No shit.

That man needs to come here and lead a revolution. I'd follow that man to hell.

http://i.imgur.com/f3kpG.jpg

Does his mask/helmet say "SNK"?

Yes, in fact he was showing a bunch of protos and then putting them in fire. That's why the police is shooting at him.