Michael Jackson, the man..ish, the memorial

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

That's dumb. Kids don't go to church because they want to, they are forced to by parents.

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That doesn't change the fact that your statement made no sense.

Your assertion about the behavior of children who are molested is way off base.

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Originally Posted by Lagduf

That doesn't change the fact that your statement made no sense.

Your assertion about the behavior of children who are molested is way off base.

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Ya I guess it is even though I have a member in my family that was molested when she was a child, ya no field of reference.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

Ya I guess it is even though I have a member in my family that was molested when she was a child, ya no field of reference.

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And that made you an authority on the issue of child molestation?

Try again.

Nice emotional appeal, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

Ya I guess it is even though I have a member in my family that was molested when she was a child, ya no field of reference.

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My sympathies to your family member, but she doesn't represent all abused children. Nor are you likely to perfectly understand everything she was thinking, during or after, any more than any of the rest of us here.

There have been dozens, if not hundreds of stories in newspapers and on television news about abused kids who kept returning to their abusers for years.

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Originally Posted by Lagduf

And that made you an authority on the issue of child molestation?

Try again.

Nice emotional appeal, by the way.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

My sympathies to your family member, but she doesn't represent all abused children. Nor are you likely to perfectly understand everything she was thinking, during or after, any more than any of the rest of us here.

There have been dozens, if not hundreds of stories in newspapers and on television news about abused kids who kept returning to their abusers for years.

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She was molested not even a month ago, so dont fucking tell me I dont know what she was thinking when I sat her down and she told me everything.

You fucks need to get your heads out of your asses. If you have never been in the situation it gives you no authority either.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

She was molested not even a month ago, so dont fucking tell me I dont know what she was thinking when I sat her down and she told me everything.

You fucks need to get your heads out of your asses. If you have never been in the situation it gives you no authority either.

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You are the only one here who is claiming to have any more authority than anyone else.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

You are the only one here who is claiming to have any more authority than anyone else.

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I never once said I had authority on anything, I stated what my niece told me and some asshole shot it down.

It's one kid's honest thoughts and behaviors. Is she supposed to be an expert on the matter? How is a psychiatrist an expert when they never experienced it either?

I believe what I hear from the mouth of a victim. Fuck the experts.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

She was molested not even a month ago, so dont fucking tell me I dont know what she was thinking when I sat her down and she told me everything.

You fucks need to get your heads out of your asses. If you have never been in the situation it gives you no authority either.

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Do you want me to cry?

It's horrible that a terrible crime was committed upon a family member of yours but she can't even begin to represent the thousands of molestation victims out there.

It's clear you've a vested emotional interest in this issue - you need to step back and look at this rationally.

Why do abused persons keep going back to their abusers? Why are children molested and women raped without going to the police?

Thankfully some of them are able to step forward, but for every victim of these types of crimes that report it it's probable that there are many more victims where the crimes committed against them aren't reported.

Don't use your family member's molestation as an example in a discussion on whether or not Michael Jackson was a child molester simply as a means to prove your point.

That's my point, not every case is the same.

You're assuming the kids are a certain way.

MJ didn't molest any kids, the kids go there because there is a fucking carnival there. What kid wouldn't want to go there?

Now if he was living in Mr. Robinson's neighborhood then ya different story.

Why don't you try viewing it from the other side?

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

That's my point, not every case is the same.

You're assuming the kids are a certain way.

MJ didn't molest any kids, the kids go there because there is a fucking carnival there. What kid wouldn't want to go there?

Now if he was living in Mr. Robinson's neighborhood then ya different story.

Why don't you try viewing it from the other side?

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Not every case is the same, but similarities and patterns develop. We're all human and share common characteristics. We have the fields of sociology and psychology for a reason.

You're contradicting your earlier statement, and providing a reason why they may have went back:

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

If any of the kids were molested why did they keep going back to be with Michael?

When a kid is sexually abused in any way it gets weird and uncomfortable to them, they wouldn't be going back.

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Maybe the good of Neverland outweighs the bad of the molestation, particularly when the child is ashamed of what went on.

It's plausible, though I'm not saying that he did.

I do think he had serious unresolved mental health issues. Neverland and associating with children like that is far from healthy.

Like you said earlier, my nieces experience doesn't account for the 1000s. And I said I was saying what my niece said.

You're stating something that was already cleared up. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

Like you said earlier, my nieces experience doesn't account for the 1000s. And I said I was saying what my niece said.

You're stating something that was already cleared up. Carry on.

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Excuse me?

Just what - was cleared up?

All I see is you trying to back out of what you said after you went on your little emotional tirade.

You made a blanket statement in which you said a victim of molestation would never go back to be with the molester, which is patently false.

I seem to recall you saying "fuck the experts" but now you're agreeing with experts - that while the specifics of every case are different we do find that patterns and similarities exist in the behavior of the victims of these types of crimes [which means some (not all) of them go back to their molesters?

So what is it?

That was the whole point of contention. Your false statement.

Agreeing? No. This argument is pointless so I ended it. Like I said, carry on.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

Agreeing? No. This argument is pointless so I ended it. Like I said, carry on.

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Do what you will but that evidence that you made a statement which false and attempted to justify it with a single experience is plain as day.

I hope NK delivers a nice firework display for your state on the 4th.

Oh look, I can be immature too.

I'd also like to add this argument is no more pointless than any of the Michael Jackson discussion in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Lagduf

Do what you will but that evidence that you made a statement which false and attempted to justify it with a single experience is plain as day.

I hope NK delivers a nice firework display for your state on the 4th.

Oh look, I can be immature too.

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Wishing death upon someone when it's a possibility is beyond immature. If it does happen you will be the biggest asshole on this site.

I didn't retract anything I said, I didn't edit my posts. Just get over it. Don't be mad that you can't "win" the way you want.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

Wishing death upon someone when it's a possibility is beyond immature. If it does happen you will be the biggest asshole on this site.

I didn't retract anything I said, I didn't edit my posts. Just get over it. Don't be mad that you can't "win" the way you want.

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:annoyed:

It was more slight at your ridiculous "i hope i make it through the 4th of July weekend" thread than anything.

An asshole? I wont disagree with you there but at least I have the decency to not air my family laundry on this BBS. That's absurd, have some fucking respect for the privacy of your family. But maybe that's not how your family does things. Still, dragging in such a personal experience to argue about something so frivolous as whether or not Michael Jackson molested children is, again, in my opinion absurd. You might disagree.

Regardless what you said in your original post on this issue is still false and you over the course of several posts continued to deny it wasn't.

Have a happy 4th of July.

Ya like I said earlier you made that clear, I am a flip-flopper of sorts.

Decency to air my family laundry? Please, she posted it on her myspace and facebook. I was shocked to see it there as well. That's the only reason why I even used it as an example. If she didn't make it public I wouldn't of.

Also my "fuck the experts" burst is how I do feel about them. Like when one of the experts was telling me I was something I wasn't because I fit the profile...LOL

You have a good 4th of July as well buddy.

Hrm... I'm not gonna argue with a dude who has a relative that recently went through a traumatic event. But Xian, it's true that kids go back to their molesters all the time. I can only hope your niece didn't, but it's true that it happens frequently.

Anyway. Didn't Michael give booze to these kids and show them porn? That's not the 'innocent' behaviour of a guy who's just weird. That's what pedophiles do. Plus didn't one of Jacko's siblings admit that he was a pedo? Normally I don't subscribe to the court of public opinion, but it seems pretty clear to me that Michael was either touching those kids, or, if nothing else, doing everything but. And that's pretty much just as bad.

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Originally Posted by Xian Xi

You have a good 4th of July as well buddy.

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I always do.

It will be even better if Pyongyang actually launched a nuke but it fails to fly properly and fails to arm and instead crash lands in to KJI's personal palace.

Sort of like when they drop bombs in to Saddam's lap in Hot Shots.

Or was that Hot Shots: Part Deux.

Frankly i'm sad Saddam is gone because it just doesn't seem right to make jokes at his expense anymore.

I'm sure the guys over at South Park were the most sad of all.

What I don't understand is why MJ's mother has custody of his children.

Is this how things like this usually work?

Shouldn't they go in to the custody of the state, who will then determine where to place them.

Or is that just how it's done? I mean certainly not all parents would like to see their kids go in to the custody of their grandparents (who may be abusive or whatever.)

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Originally Posted by Lagduf

What I don't understand is why MJ's mother has custody of his children.

Is this how things like this usually work?

Shouldn't they go in to the custody of the state, who will then determine where to place them.

Or is that just how it's done? I mean certainly not all parents would like to see their kids go in to the custody of their grandparents (who may be abusive or whatever.)

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Doesn't matter when you have Jackson money.

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Originally Posted by HeartlessNinny

Anyway. Didn't Michael give booze to these kids and show them porn? That's not the 'innocent' behaviour of a guy who's just weird. That's what pedophiles do. Plus didn't one of Jacko's siblings admit that he was a pedo? Normally I don't subscribe to the court of public opinion, but it seems pretty clear to me that Michael was either touching those kids, or, if nothing else, doing everything but. And that's pretty much just as bad.

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Actually it was LaToya Jackson who said that. From what I read she was the only oen who said anything of the sort. She apparently told some "reporters" (tabloids) that she had some evidence against Michael Jackson which later turned out to be a lie or at least nothing they could sell on the news stands. She later retracted the whole thing when her family disowned her over the whole thing, claiming her husband forced her to do the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by genjiglove

Actually it was LaToya Jackson who said that. From what I read she was the only oen who said anything of the sort. She apparently told some "reporters" (tabloids) that she had some evidence against Michael Jackson which later turned out to be a lie or at least nothing they could sell on the news stands. She later retracted the whole thing when her family disowned her over the whole thing, claiming her husband forced her to do the whole thing.

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I think she was just jealous because MJ was a better looking woman than she was.

I believe MJ was innocent, innocent until proven guilty simple as

Both parents of the kids wanted money simple as and I hope all of them die soon

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Originally Posted by genjiglove

Actually it was LaToya Jackson who said that. From what I read she was the only oen who said anything of the sort. She apparently told some "reporters" (tabloids) that she had some evidence against Michael Jackson which later turned out to be a lie or at least nothing they could sell on the news stands. She later retracted the whole thing when her family disowned her over the whole thing, claiming her husband forced her to do the whole thing.

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You know, I'm beginning to think that Michael's family is pretty messed up.