Beast Wars/Machines Vs. Original Transformers which is better?

This argument is one my friends and I have been having for a while lately, and frankly poor old 80s Transformers is not winning the war, and I agree too. Beast Wars/Machines provided a progressing story line with very developed characters where the original seems more like a 20 minute toy commercial (much like any 80s cartoon). It also had very little story progression and very few characters were properly established. Sure Prime is 1000x better than Primal, but the show itself just can't compare.

Or does anyone here think any of those terrible Japanese shows were better?

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

This argument is one my friends and I have been having for a while lately, and frankly poor old 80s Transformers is not winning the war, and I agree too. Beast Wars/Machines provided a progressing story line with very developed characters where the original seems more like a 20 minute toy commercial (much like any 80s cartoon). It also had very little story progression and very few characters were properly established. Sure Prime is 1000x better than Primal, but the show itself just can't compare.

Or does anyone here think any of those terrible Japanese shows were better?

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Beast Wars had shit character design. Failure.

Gen 1 was incredibly good character design. I have been watching the movie over and over (from 1986) and it never gets old. Especially the scene when Megatron and the Decepticons tear through the wall of the convoy ship and kill Prowl, Braun, Ironhide, and Ratchet. That was incredible - for once those fucking lasers actually hit their mark.

Beast Wars has better writing, but it does suffer from in terms of animation (really only due to its time and what was available at the time - and G1 wasnt a shining example of animation in its day either).

But for Beast Wars to be as great as it was, it needed G1 as a background.

Machines wasnt that good honestly. Still miles better than anything the Japanese series ever did.

Beast Wars > G1 > Machines > Any Jap Shit.

I hated beast wars and thought the colours were dull and the graphics dodgy

the original series was by far the best and watching transformers cybertron the other day its just not the same

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Originally Posted by Nesagwa

Beast Wars has better writing, but it does suffer from in terms of animation (really only due to its time and what was available at the time - and G1 wasnt a shining example of animation in its day either).

But for Beast Wars to be as great as it was, it needed G1 as a background.

Machines wasnt that good honestly. Still miles better than anything the Japanese series ever did.

Beast Wars > G1 > Machines > Any Jap Shit.

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Actually, I was reading that when the writers started writing beast wars they had no intentions of throwing in the Ark and all that stuff from the third season, but once they themselves started looking into G1 stuff they added it in.

Beast Wars did need G1 to make it as great as it became in the end.

I loved Beast Wars, thats the series I really grew up with coming a few years later then most of you. The Beast Machines sequels though, not so good. Watched both series over last summer, and Beast Wars still held up quite well.

Beast Wars definitely as a series. Trying to watch through the DVDs of the original show is like watching grass grow save for an episode here and there. Though the original movie is absolutely great.

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Originally Posted by OrochiEddie

Actually, I was reading that when the writers started writing beast wars they had no intentions of throwing in the Ark and all that stuff from the third season, but once they themselves started looking into G1 stuff they added it in.

Beast Wars did need G1 to make it as great as it became in the end.

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Well even in Season 2 they had the ghost of Starscream taking over Waspinator, the (cloned) immortal spark of Starscream implanted into Rampage, and the image of Unicron in the alien monument.

There were loads of references and stories that relied on it before Season 3 started.

yes, but most of that wasn't thought of until a few episodes in (at least that is my understanding of it). It's a bummer that a 4th season wasn't made, many of the season 3 additions didn't have much time to really join the group, such as Transmetal 2 Dinobot, Tigerhawk, and Transmetal 2 Megatron.

It's funny this topic just came up because I downloaded all of Beast Wars like a month ago and have slowly watched them.

I think Beast Wars has better writing for sure. It also presented a lot of interesting things like the entire concept of the spark being the soul of Transformers. Although the character designs are, on the whole, pretty crappy, I liked the characters they used. Dinobot was a very likable character. Unfortunately, I always thought Primal was made out to be a real idiot, very unlike G1 Prime.

As many have already stated, BW probably had its best story arcs when they had to deal with G1 history. The whole Ark and Nemesis stories were very cool. When Primal first met the aliens and you saw Unicron's head, it was like "holy shit!" even though it had nothing to do with Unicron.

~Paik

Some people actually like the shit that is Beast Wars?

This explains a lot of problems in the world today.:shame:

G1 > Beast Wars

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Originally Posted by Nesagwa

Well even in Season 2 they had the ghost of Starscream taking over Waspinator, the (cloned) immortal spark of Starscream implanted into Rampage, and the image of Unicron in the alien monument.

There were loads of references and stories that relied on it before Season 3 started.

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The multi-part cliffhanger that ends Season 2 and started Season 3 was some seriously good fucking Saturday morning television.

G1 was before my time but the movie is a classic. I watch the scenes with Stan Bush songs on youtube every now and then.

Beast Wars looked retarded so I never bothered to watch it.

TFUK Comics>Beast Wars>G1 Movie>Beast Machines>G1 TV series> Last few Japanese shows.

Beast Wars is amazing. I was a hater when I first saw it back in the day. Then I watched it. OMG. soooo good.

original is best. no doubt.

Beast Wars had a good story. ignore the cg. it also had great tie-ins with the original. Great stuff

Machines started out great....then it went to the point of no return. Kinda sad really. It could have been great. Most of the real TF fans deeply despise Machines and the guy who did the storyline. I mean deeeply despise... I believe he had the nerve to show up to botcon a few years ago too. not so gewd an idea...

Which do I like better? Original. Which IS better? Beast Wars/Machines. Excluding the movie, the Beast shows are flat-out better written (keeping in mind they're both kids shows).

Having said that, the Beast shows look like garbage. CG ages quickly and badly, and those shows have aged a lot. Meanwhile, the original TF first 2 seasons and movie still look great (seasons 3 and 4 always looked terrible).

The japanese shows from Headmasters on have all sucked donkeys. Fuck Masterforce. Victory isn't Transformers. Fuck Zone. Fuck the Japanese Beast shows. Fuck fuck fuck RiD/CarRobots. Armada is robot Pokemon. Energon, I never finished watching. Japan knows animation, but they don't understand jack shit about Transformers. Every time they try to add to the mythos, they make a complete cock-up of it.

I have been thinking about this and what I have come to feel is that the Gen 1 tie in with the action figures ultimately hurt the ability to have a storyline because it was more about selling toys than it was about making a quality series. But the toys were so good that it didn't matter. Watching most of the old cartoons is really difficult now, but those old toys still kick ass.

Beast Wars and Machines are extremely better than G1, I agree with charater design against the 1st season, but no way in hell are they better than the 2nd & 3rd season, in fact one of the coolest megatrons ever has to be the dragon.

The characters stole the show during the beast era, what has G1? Prime, Megatron Starscream and perhaps soundwave because he's an uncharismatic fool, I love G1, I truly do, but Beast era is a master piece, I love beast machines because I can see radical changes in Primal through out the series, sort of like a fundamentalist to a liberalist in some sadistic way.

Megatron stole beast wars, whoever did his voice was magnificient, I even dare say I like him better than the original Megatron, and I love terrasaur's likeness to starscream, is a shame he died in the 1st season.

Beast Wars was magical, because somehow they could be silly, funny, but complex all at the same time, there's no way G1 can do all that for any of us, as much as I love G1, and with all the respect to it's heritage, Beast era is one of the best things that has ever happened to me.

I found this during it's inception, and during this time I missed the TRansformers so much that when this whole thing happened I was extremely fascinated with it all, I felt as if somehow transformers grew along with me, that's what it felt like, and that's why it will always be very close to my heart.

It was a pioneering series into CG, and creative wrinting, I just can't recall anything this well written in animation since Space Advenbture Cobra my favorite cartoon of all time.

Beast Wars is extremely entertaining and Beast Machines is profoundly enlightening.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

The japanese shows from Headmasters on have all sucked donkeys. Fuck Masterforce. Victory isn't Transformers. Fuck Zone. Fuck the Japanese Beast shows. Fuck fuck fuck RiD/CarRobots. Armada is robot Pokemon. Energon, I never finished watching. Japan knows animation, but they don't understand jack shit about Transformers. Every time they try to add to the mythos, they make a complete cock-up of it.

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Fucking Ditto!

Kiss Players! :tickled:

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. G1 for me please, though Beast Wars gets an honorable second for the Voyager plotline.

Except for the original movie's entire running time, my favorite Transformer moment is probably the death of Ravage. A lot of people bring up Dinobot, and yeah, that was a good episode... but the way Ravage went out beats everything.

The premise of Masterforce is gay wads but I really like that series, i love the PRETENDEEEEERRRRRR bit in the awful dub.

I really like the Zone episode too i think that had potential nice score throughout and bizarre character range, I dont think that era of Japan Transformer series is a total loss, but yeah on the whole its bad........doesnt mean one cant enjoy it tho!

For teh record Call of the Primatives is my fave episode ever, the whole Predaking vs Tornadron scene is soo good in look, script and music.

HEEEEE IIIISSS RIGHT.........PREDAKONNNNNNNNNSSSS.....UNIIIIIIITE E!!!:loco:

I hated the season 3 origin of Unicron, though. That was the lamest, most anti-climactic explanation they possibly could have come up with. Give me the Marvel UK comic version.

As for the japanese shows...it's not that they're all horrible shows on their own, it's just that they miss what Transformers is about by such a wide mark.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

I hated the season 3 origin of Unicron, though. That was the lamest, most anti-climactic explanation they possibly could have come up with. Give me the Marvel UK comic version.

As for the japanese shows...it's not that they're all horrible shows on their own, it's just that they miss what Transformers is about by such a wide mark.

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You mean being made by Primacron? Your right that was absurd, really........I have those UK issues the Primus/Unicron stuff is epic infact that whole saga with Rodimus on the run from Deaths Head up till the reamergance of Unicron was total awesome.

The religious flavor of unicron is surely the way things should be.

This whole "Treky" feel from G1 is why I like the beast era so much more, I really don't have to dig in intricacies and superfluous terms that mean little to the me, because the characters and writing make up for it.

A little off the subject, but in the same note, this is why I enjoy the Ultimate Marvel series so much more than the regular comics, and hell! I've been reading comics for a long time.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

I hated the season 3 origin of Unicron, though. That was the lamest, most anti-climactic explanation they possibly could have come up with. Give me the Marvel UK comic version.

As for the japanese shows...it's not that they're all horrible shows on their own, it's just that they miss what Transformers is about by such a wide mark.

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I'd say fuck season 3 altogether. At that point all the worthwhile characters were dead or had minimal plot involvement. The movie is a great spot to just say "and then it ended".

My biggest gripe for the japanese series' is that they eventually turned the show into a giant robot anime, which is not what the show is about. Also the end of Galvatron was the worst . He surived the explosion of cybertron, but is taken out by ice.

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Originally Posted by n00bz0r

"Decepticons foreverrrrrrrrr!"

that is one of my absolute favorite moments in beast wars. hell in transformers continuity all together. i watched beastwars when it premiered, thought it was stupid and ignored the rest of it. a few years later I watched all the eps when i got them off of DALnet and i was blown away. if you think that generation 1 is better than beastwars, it all really depends on what youre talking about. most people are looking back at how G1 was part of their childhood and so on, so of course they'd vote for it. g1 is the source of awesome memories from when i was a kid. but if you look back and think about episodes like "Code of Hero" from beast wars and compare it to an episode like "heavy metal war"...... theres just no comparison. beastwars was a superior show. maybe not in character and toy design, but certainly superior in writing style and continuity. code of hero could almost be considered a fucking tear jerker. you dont get that in g1 except for primes death in the movie which is an entirely different animal all together.

christ man. that one scene where g1 Prime sorta 'wakes up' and almost smiles at Optimus Primal... thats some good shit.

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Code of Hero was amazing considering they dramatically killed a character on a childrens TV show. Beast Wars actually had plenty of killing off of Transformers...

Terrasaur
Scorpanok
Tigertron
Airrazor
Dinobot (beautiful episode)
Turrantulus
TigerHawk
Rampage
Depth Charge
Inferno
Quickstrike

Then if you went into Beast Machines you saw the amazing change of Rhinox's personality. From loving tech master to sinister evil Tankor...it was just so hard to fathom when I first saw it.

this is a generational issue. You can tell how old people are here by where their loyalties lie.

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Originally Posted by wasabi

this is a generational issue. You can tell how old people are here by where their loyalties lie.

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Generally, yeah. I think a few people break out of that, though.

I watch G1 for its nostalgia value (and because I have a man-crush for Chris Latta). The show was a toy commercial and looked it. It got better during the 2nd a 3rd seasons, and I love the movie to death, but I can't pretend that it's something it's not.

Beast Wars was tolerable (Beast Machines was NOT), but I don't watch it because the fans piss me off and I don't want to be associated with them.

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Originally Posted by wasabi

this is a generational issue. You can tell how old people are here by where their loyalties lie.

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I was 7 when I got my Optimus Prime in 1984 and watched the show.

It was awesome back then. Watching it now is kinda painful. Other than the pilot episodes and the 86 movie I have a hard time watching Gen1

I was so against Beast Wars when I first saw it. Ignored it.

Then some friends told me to watch it. Finally watched it a few years ago on DVD. It was awesome. Yeah it needed that G1 backstory to make it that awesome but it was better written and plotted out than all of G1 combined. The only thing I love more are the TFUK Marvel comics.

So it can be generational or you can just be open minded and check something out for yourself.

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Originally Posted by MilkManX

I was so against Beast Wars when I first saw it. Ignored it.

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Same here. I was against it on principle. Plus, the CG looked ugly as fuck to me when I caught a glimpse of it.

Like you, the first time I saw a complete episode was when Rhino started releasing the DVDs a few years ago (somewhere around 2002, 2003?). Pleasantly surprised.

I wish we had a jackoff emoticon

Beast Wars had far better character development.

Rhinox > just about anything G1 had.

Did BW have fucking Astrotrain in it? I thought not. Soundwave kicked all kinds of ass too.

As did those hilarious depictions of civilization in the new millenium (By 2005 kids were flying on jetpacks hahaha).


Furthermore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1_6D9QS9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpbp9GXOGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-aTbHsZJ9g

I rest my case, but Beast wars was ok during that short period I was getting into it.

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Originally Posted by E=MC2

its pretty damn good compared to the ugly shit that is ji joe

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stfu

your mother is ugly shit

your mother is, your mother is.

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Originally Posted by E=MC2

just cause you still play with your ji toys doesn't make the series any better than it was.

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Come on, man. Once could have just been an accident. But if you really can't spell "G.I.," I start to feel kind of bad for you.

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Originally Posted by SouthtownKid

Come on, man. Once could have just been an accident. But if you really can't spell "G.I.," I start to feel kind of bad for you.

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Maybe its just the Japanese version?


JAAAAYYYEEEEEYYYYGGOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Nesagwa

Maybe its just the Japanese version?


JAAAAYYYEEEEEYYYYGGOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

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http://www.fenslerfilm.com/moviesF/P...SA23_small.mpg :tickled:

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Originally Posted by Sp0o/\/?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1_6D9QS9Y

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That's fucking great.

Beast Wars/Machines is better written without having to go to far into the TR universe, I know it intertwines with it, but at its own pace, making it enjoyable for those who aren't in the know of things.

The beast era was a pioneering empress where it took risks than no one thought possible. Check the stats on all the other CG shows of that small era...right! They're all forgotten, the only other show worth mentioning is War Planets, and it was kind of lame at times.

I love G1, but I admire BW/M for everything that it stands for.

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Originally Posted by wasabi

this is a generational issue. You can tell how old people are here by where their loyalties lie.

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Then I'll have to be the exception to this rule.

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Originally Posted by electricgrave

Beast Wars/Machines is better written without having to go to far into the TR universe, I know it intertwines with it, but at its own pace, making it enjoyable for those who aren't in the know of things.

The beast era was a pioneering empress where it took risks than no one thought possible. Check the stats on all the other CG shows of that small era...right! They're all forgotten, the only other show worth mentioning is War Planets, and it was kind of lame at times.

I love G1, but I admire BW/M for everything that it stands for.



Then I'll have to be the exception to this rule.

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Um, ReBoot.

And Beast Wars, War Planets, and ReBoot were all made by MainFrame. So the quality compared of the three is about equal.

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Originally Posted by Nesagwa

Um, ReBoot.

And Beast Wars, War Planets, and ReBoot were all made by MainFrame. So the quality compared of the three is about equal.

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I didn't like reboot, dunno...it just didn't do it for me.

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Originally Posted by electricgrave

I didn't like reboot, dunno...it just didn't do it for me.

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agreed. I just personally thought Reboot was not entertaining at all.

It doesn't matter to me.
I already got complete G1 (98 episodes) + Armada (52 episodes) in hand :)
:D

G1>Beast Wars

I like G1 i grew up on it as well.

Still i like beast wars for it's character devlopment and how the story progess.

That's all realy.

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Originally Posted by Liquid Snake

It doesn't matter to me.
I already got complete G1 (98 episodes) + Armada (52 episodes) in hand :)
:D

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I didn't like armada, hell I didn't like any of the TR series after Beast Wars/machines, I mean I enjoyed some of it, but do I have the episodes...no!

Transfromers will never be taken seriously again until those damn japanese let go of the damn thing, I mean check the comics written in the US, they're all great!

The marvel run had some good writing but awful art, but the DW run has excellent art and some good writing, also the DDP or whatever they call themselves are pretty decent, but the art production is meh...