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i was kinda disappointed by this last year, but i did some digging and found out why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiso
GW does their own Con which is almost as big as GenCon on it's own. They didnt see a reason to spread their resources.
It does give the smaller groups like Privateer Press a chance to really shine.
I like mini's and war games, but they are deep deep deep deep money pits. I don't think i'll ever play a CCG or war mini-based game ever again for that reason.
I don't see how it could possibly be as big as Gen Con, which averages 25,000-30,000 attendees per year. If Games Workshop were that big on their own, they'd be dominating the industry. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they do quite well, but they'd need to be as widespread as Magic or Yu-gi-oh for them to do a convention the size of Gen Con without anybody else adding to the attraction. My understanding is that they're nowhere near the industry leader in the gaming community. I suppose I could be wrong about that, however. I'm just talking about my perceptions as a hobbyist in this particular realm for nearly 30 years and watching the trends rise and fall.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
Gen Con is an industry wide convention, which is precisely why it draws so many people every year.
And as much as I love Games Workshop's products, I am in the same boat with you. Having to buy all those minis in order to field them is just cost prohibitive as well as being a massive time sink to assemble them and paint them. As awesome as painted metal minis look and feel, I'll just take the plastic ones given to me with Space Hulk and Blood Bowl in order to have a little fun for a few hours.
I could never do Magic again, either. Having to continually buy cards in order to stay competitive is just not cool for me. I'd rather buy a sourcebook for a RPG or a board game with everything I need, and just mine that as much as possible to get the most fun out of the product. We've been using BESM for years as our primary role playing system and even though it's undergone some heavy modifications over the years by our gaming group, we continue to get entertainment out of our ten dollar rule books.
Board War Games > Tabletop Miniature War GamesQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
That is just my opinion though.
Yeah. there is a reason WOTC owns everything.
It's because Magic was/is a huge money maker.
Game Workshop is huuuge Taiso. They are huge worldwide. Their line up was getting a lil stale, but the LOTR licensing brought them back in a big way. I didn't think they had the pull for a large Con either, but i looked into it last year.
the one dealer with GW minis at Gencon was crowded all day as well.
I used to hate WotC but then I realized that it's probably not WotC that is full of the cocksuckers I can't stand. It's Hasbro, who owns WotC.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
And I'll have to look into Games Workshop. I still don't think they're as big as WotC. Magic's still pretty goddamned gigantic. But again, I've done absolutely no research in this respect. If they were as big as WotC, I think they'd be more a part of pop culture than they are. I mean...everyone has heard of Magic and seen the commercials. Not so much with the GW stuff (which I feel is, at any rate, superior product to Magic.)
I wonder where Blizzard fits into the hierarchy of 'gaming' in general, now that WoW is so massive.
Oh, and lest I sound like a pure hater, let me give props to WotC for developing a competent new version of the Star Wars RPG with the Saga Edition. They streamlined a pretty cumbersome role playing system by fine tuning it to be more like the minis game, albeit with a little extra beef for RPG campaigns. I'm told that D&D 4th Edition is sort of the 'Saga Edition' of D&D but I wouldn't know because I've never tried it or even looked at it at all.
I don't think you can seperate WotC from Hasbro, making Hasbro, by default, larger than GW.
Of course, I also see a large disconnect between those who play board or card games (or even RPGs for that matter) and those who play Tabletop Miniature Games like GW's stuff.
Regarding the separation of Hasbro from WotC, there is a very different group of people running those two companies. The WotC people are, by and large, very much in favor of the gaming community and are generally great people to communicate with. There is a lot they want to do but just aren't allowed to do it because Hasbro makes a lot of the decisions and enforces a lot of the business strategies, and they're just stuck doing what they're told to do. A lot of big corporations run their subsidiaries like this and it's very frustrating to have to deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
But in terms of simply comparing Hasbro to Games Workshop, if you just want to crunch numbers, there is no comparison. Hasbro is a giant that would crush Games Workshop underfoot and wipe the smear off its shoe on the lawn in terms of global influence and power.
And there is very much a disconnect between the board/card gamers and tabletop minis gamers. Magic is easier to embrace at a younger age and more people do it so it's sort of the more 'faddish' engagement of the two. A slavish devotion to Magic will probably help you construct a better deck, but the accessibility of the game and the way it's been sold to the market will naturally invite casual audiences to try it out.
Tabletop mini fans, by way of contrast, are a far more intense and dedicated group of individuals on a general level. There are a lot more to the rules and minutiea of 40k or Classic Battletech, for example, than there is in your standard CCG. That stuff can be intimidating and offputting to the casual audience. And when casual and hardcore gamers meet, the differences between the two types are bound to come out. Wii gamers vs. PC gamers, anyone?
i don't think anyone ever said GW was bigger than Hasbro/WOTC.
My point was it's hard to compare the size of GW with WotC because so often Hasbro simply gives properties to WotC or tells them what to do. While WotC has independence to deal with properties as they like, Hasbro rears it's head and uses it's might to help out WotC.
For example, Avalon Hill is now subsidiary brand under Wizards of the Coast. Previously Avalon Hill had been bought by Hasbro, but they weren't doing anything with it so they just gave it to WotC.
And then Hasbro added Milton Bradley properties [Hasbro Owns MB] to the Avalon Hill line like Axis and Allies.
See what I mean, zanyness!
FFG claims to be in the top 5 board game manufactuers in the World.
I bought Age Of Empires III on Tanga yesterday for $29. 2nd Edition. That Tanga runs some durn good deals.
I've also made some other purchases recently. 2 weeks ago I bought:
-Alchemist
-Jambo (2 player card game, pretty highly rated)
-Memoir '44 (finally took the plunge, I have a friend interested in wargames finally)
-Bootleggers (deeply themed ameritrash, running moonshine to the speakeasies, hiding your still from the copper etc..., actually pretty fun)
I just completed a trade on BGG for my copy of Toledo (a very very simple Martin Wallace game, too light for my group), to acquire a nice copy of Paths of Glory! I've read the instructions for PoG 3 times now, and I'm still going to need to set this one up by myself to figure out exactly how to play. From reading the manual, it seems like the hardest part is learning and remembering all the exceptions.
Anybody ever played King Oil?
That is basically what i've heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by GunstarHero
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2608Quote:
Originally Posted by ResO
This?
you'll have to tell me how long memoir44 takes. I think i'll try to demo that at some future game days if it is not too bad.
Also, after totally trashing mini games, I am looking for a small squad based mini game. My friends and I like mini's , but we both make too much money to play them. It will just turn into a giant war like our old 40k days. We need a small scale mini game like blood bowl or something.
You could always play Classic Battletech as a miniatures game [i play it as a boardgame] it features 4 minis per side generally is my understanding.
But really I can't help you there, as a general rule i'm really not interested in any miniature games outside of GW's stuff. I view miniatures games as a hobby in itself, thus to dedicate my time to more than one miniatures game would be far too time consuming.
So I just mess around with 40K.
I do own Blood Bowl but that's a board game (same as Space Hulk.)
Command and Colors: Ancients > Memoir '44 :emb:
I'm also not really aware of any squad based board games that are at the man to man scale (where each piece represents one man.)
The original point that prompted the comparisons was that Games Workshop doesn't attend Gen Con because they have their own convention which is just as big as Gen Con. The response to this statement was that the only Games Workshop could host a convention the size and scope of Gen Con would be if their company was successful enough and popular enough to warrant attendance figures equal to Gen Con's.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
Not even Wizards Of The Coast, the biggest and most successful gaming company in the industry, could host a yearly convention like Gen Con on their own. The industry as a whole has to band together and be present to draw the kind of numbers Gen Con does. Games Workshop doesn't have clout equal to the rest of the gaming industry combined.
That was why the comparisons in company power levels were made.
Hope that cleared it up.
Battletech can be played with as few as one mech per side, to be truthful. It's not as much fun that way, though. The minimum amount, for purses of tactical variety and to have fun, is generally considered to be 4, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
A 'lance' in Battletech consists of 4 mechs, usually of similar weight classes to create a sense of balance and realistic military structure. You wouldn't put squads of varying speeds in the same lance unless you were desperate to fill out ranks because weight classes in Battletech don't just determine the amount of firepower and durability a mech has, but also its function and purpose on the battlefield. Kinda like a real military unit. And these lances all combine to make up squads, platoons, regiments, batallions and so forth. I wouldn't be able to give you the breakdown on that stuff, however. I used to know the difference between those denominations when I was in my WW II phase but it's been a while and I'm too lazy to wiki it right now:P
yeah, that's the one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
mechwarrior is a viable choice, but I'm an old mechwarrior player and that franchise is dead to me. We actually played a quick grind game at gencon.
i am curious about Privateer Press's HORDE, but no where on their webpage do they actually tell you what the fuck kinda game it is.
Are you familiar with Warmachine?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
Hordes and Warmachine are interchangeable in terms of rules or at least that is my understanding.
The armies from Hordes focus more on monsters and beasts while in Warmachine the armies are proper military armies (well, set in their fantasy universe.)
Sneth, a 1000pts Chaos/Space Marine or Eldar army isn't very big tbh
My 1500pts Eldar host, 2nd ed list though, has 32 miniatures, 16 of which are plastic guardians which cost me like 20€ for the box.
1000pt army isnt big. but i know myself and my friends, we would never settle on 1000 point.
First i had to have a squad of each eldar, then i needed the jetbikes, then the walker, and so on. ....
and why bother playing when you can't use all yur cool lil guys... and then it just turns into a mess.
__________________________________________________ ______________
that's what we are trying to avoid by just going with a squad based game in mind.
Why did they have to kill Man o War :(
Ofc not, that's why it clocks in at 2500pts atm, and I've got a Whfb Vampire Counts army coming along that is going for 3000pts :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
I'm going in for the kill
I just love painting miniatures and making scenery :D
that's how they get ya. my eldar army was gigantic, and f'n sucked hard. Space marines with a laser cannon would 1 shot my avatar , it was ghey.
i used to have a baddass Skaven army in Bloodbowl, but no one wants to play.
That is perfect because your team is forced to be small and you can spend all the time you want with detail on the mini's.
That's what i'm looking for.
Well, I've been a gw miniature nerd for a long time, and I've always felt that the modeling aspect of the hobby is cooler than the playing one :D That said, I've won quite a few games with my crap Eldar army. p.S my first Whfb army (3rd.ed) was Skaven ;D
I just made a thread on BGG about my obsession with accessorizing my games. That's seriously the first thing I think about after opening up any new game. Like today, I went to Michaels and bought a 23" x 35" poster frame to mount my newly acquired Paths Of Glory map in. Then I picked up a Plano box to separate and organize the counters that come with the game. Seriously, this is part of my fun. It satisfies some kind of mathematical organizational impulse inside.
im with ya there bro.
space is limited in my downtown apt, so i have to organize this shit out of everything.
the problem is I keep buying. I have one (formerly) walk in closet that is literally a 3D tetris game.
double posting here. for page topness
does anyone know how active Mordheim and Necromunda are?
Skirmish based games in the warhammer and 40k universe. sounds like what i am looking for. I remember necromunda from 10+ yrs ago, and it was popular.
Duf, any interest in these two new games from FFG?
Middle-Earth Quest
Warhammer: Chaos In The Old World
I've taken a good look at both those and decided I'm going to buy them both, I'm pretty sure my group would like them. I'm thinking hard about getting Runebound: Second Edition as well. I love these types of fantasy adventure games.
I'm really starting to believe FFG is the best game publisher/designers around. Especially for American games, they can't be beat. Everything I've played from them so far has been enjoyable, if not awesome.
FFG is top notch.
I'm not interested in Chaos in the Old World, but I am interested in Middle Earth Quest. I've been eagerly awaiting this ever since they announced it years ago.
I need to sit down with the rulebook and give it look over to see if it's something i'd like, but i'm sure i'll enjoy it.
Have you played War of the Ring? It's published by FFG in the USA but was developed by Nexus. Those guys over at Nexus are awesome and I love the relationship they have with FFG.
I am interested in Warhammer: Invasion.
Christian Peterson, the founder and CEO of FFG just appears to have impeccable business sense. The business relationships he has fostered with various other companies is simply fantastic.
FFG has access to some extremely lucrative licenses: Lord of the Rings, Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40K, etc. Not to mention they've also reprinted some other Games Workshop stuff and updated other games (Arkham Horror, Fury of Dracula.]
I really hope FFG is able to do a 40K boardgame.
At Gencon they said they would be releasing to large "coffin" sized games later this year, both yet unannounced.
SPACE. HULK. THURSDAY.
I am excited.
Oh, also - Have you look in to Battlestar Galactica from FFG?
It is really a great, great, great multiplayer experience.
FFG has taken another IP and not only make a great game, but one that oozes with the theme of the show. You don't have to be a fan of the show to enjoy the game either!
Never watched BSG, so I have no interest in the game. Neither does any of my crew.
I got the game before ever actually seeing BSG.Quote:
Originally Posted by GunstarHero
It's a great "who is the traitor in our midst/who can i trust?" type of game.
yeah. the BSG xpack sold out on day one at gencon i recall. I watched people play, but i didn't like how it tied in with the show.
Space Hulk is here :buttrock:
Let me just say this:
It's a production rivaling anything FFG has done in recent years.
Very thick cardboard counters and tiles for the modular board.
Full color rulebook and Mission book with fluff/background material.
The miniatures included are, of course, top notch.
They're snap together, however, they're composed of multiple pieces. The terminators really put those included in Assault on Black Reach to shame. Each Terminator, including the Librarian has his own individual sculpt complete with lots of Blood Angel Specific icons.
The Genestealers are great too.
I'd love to be able to pay $$$ to get more Sprues of these guys so I could use them in 40K.
Just a great production all around.
Shame it's so pricey, but then again the FFG coffin box stuff is in the $90 range these days...but at least you can get those at online discounters.
Of note: if you want to base the Terminators on 40mm bases (so they can be "legal" in 40k) then they wont fit very well on the Space Hulk game board.
I believe the rules are primarily first ed though they've added a few new things that also came in the expansions. Again, i'm not totally sure as this is my first time with Space Hulk.
There is now an overwatch type action called Guard which works like Overwatch except for close combat attacks only.
Couple different weapons in this too: Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields, Power Swords, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Lightning Claws, chainfist, and a Force Axe.
The Librarian can use Psychic powers.
Although I will note that, the miniatures are citadel miniatures so some work is required when assembling them. Obviously you have to cut the three pieces that comprise each terminator off the sprue, but you'll have to a do a little cleanup work with an Xacto or file (or both.)
I don't like the ways the arms fit on. It's just very well engineered given how tight the fit is and how fragile the pegs are (plus they're at a stupid angle.) Terminators look damn good though. Damn good.
pics!
how long does it take to play this game. 2 player games usually dont work well when they are long.
Went to an FLGS in South Bend tonight and tried out Chaos In The Old World (a Warhammer board game). It's an area control game for 3-4 players. Each player represents an Endbringer of some sort that uses minions and cards to control territories, with the ultimate goal to ruin lands (and earn VPs). The theme really resembles any thing based on the Cthulu mythos, with everything being doom, end times, and the occult.
Each endbringer has special abilities and his own set of chaos cards to draw from, each specific to that character. Gameplay basically consists of drawing an event card that affects the gameboard to start, then each player draws a couple of chaos cards from his/her pile. Then in succession each player takes his turn spending a predetermined amount of action points one action at a time around the board until everyone runs out of action points. It takes APs to place minions and to play your chaos cards.
After all APs are used up, battle is conducted with spaces that have warrior class minions in them, with any modifiers. Then the area control scoring takes place at the end of the turn (every turn). That's just a quick overview, and missing alot of things.
After the game, my group was undecided on whether it was worth a purchase. I would definitely play it again, but I'm not sure on if I want to buy it or not. The components are really nice, of course being a FFG product. I was surprised though at how tiny the miniatures are in this, and some of them were already broken in the set we played. This would be a game I'd buy if it went on sale, say $25. Or maybe in a trade.
I also played a 6 player game of Shadows Over Camelot. This was really fun, and was a first time for me. It was too easy though because there was no Traitor involved.
A game isn't going on too long if everone is having fun. Although I'm aware some people would rather do other things then spend extensive amount of times on games. I've no problem with longer games so long as they remain engaging.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSneth
Space Hulk is fairly simple, as all of GW's board games are.
BGG lists a playing time of 60minutes.
You can see pictures of the game on the GW website, but they've painted the figures.
The terminators are molded in red plastic and the genestealers are molded in blue plastic.
@Gunstar - I've been reading some good things about Middle Earth Quest. I might have to get it.
I'm just not interested in Chaos in the Old World at all. Playing as one of the four Chaos gods in the Warhammer Fantasy universe doesn't sound so engaging. I'm sure it's not a bad game but neither the theme or gameplay are jumping out at me.
I need to read some reviews on the Warhammer: Invasion LCG.
60 minutes is about right.
with 2 player games, if on person knows they are losing, it's usually a busted game and they throw a fit.
It's the familier problem of the runaway winner - except in a two player game there isn't even a battle for second and third; it becomes processional.
No good game should have runaway winners, and nobody should want to keep playing a two player game after it became clear who won.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSpy
A runaway winner is usually the result of poor game design or extremely poor play on the hand of the other play.
Although, towards the end of a game if it's clear one person will win (and can't be beat) we just call it quits and consider him the victor.
BUMP
GMT puts up for Pre-Order "Labyrinth" a game being described as a post 9/11 Twilight Struggle.
I will be following the development of this title, particularly for it's controversy but mostly because Twilight Struggle is the best game I've ever played. Definitely looks interesting.
Anyway, I ordered some new stuff:
Warhammer: Invasion LCG
Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel - Kursk 1943
Command & Colors: Ancients Expansion #4: Imperial Rome
Command & Colors: Ancients Expansion #5: Epic Ancients 2
I was going to order FFG's Call of Cthulu LCG until they released the Warhammer: Invasion LCG, which has a more appealing theme to me. I really like CCG's except for the collectible aspect of course (although, opening a pack of cards in hopes of getting a good rare is fun.) An LCG is basically a CCG except they released "fixed" expansions a couple of times a year. So instead of dropping a ton of cash on new packs of an expansion you just spend $10-15 on a new deck.
Conflict of Heroes is great, and this new game has the new ruleset. Apparently some streamlining has been done since the first game. It'll be interesting to see what's been done.
Commands and Colors is great, and I believe these are most likely the final two expansions for the series - which I mostly am getting for collection purposes :emb: since Richard Borg is now working on Commands and Colors: Napoleon which I will also invariably purchase.
Through The Ages: A Story Of Civilization is the best damn board game I've ever played. I've played it 6 times in 2 weeks and I can't stop thinking about it, and I just want to play it over and over. Pure crack.
Also, I've bought alot since my last posting:
Amyitis
Age of Mythology
Cleopatra And The Society Of Architects
Revolution!
Steam
To Court The King
What I will probably buy next is Endeavor and Vasco Da Gama
Also, we've formed a pretty sizable gaming group that meets twice a month for all day gaming sessions. It's been very successful, with about 20 regulars and we play from noon to midnight every second Saturday. I think it's kinda cool to see so many people playing board games, and there's actually some decent looking girls that are part of the group too.
How do you like Steam?
Have you played Age of Steam or Railroad Tycoon?
Currently I'm waiting for the release of:
Conflict of Heroes: Price of Honour
It's an expansion for the Conflict of Heroes game system featuring battles on the Polish Front in 1939. So we get some good early war stuff and I personally playing as the Polish in '39. Good old defiant Poland. Love those motherfuckers.
Anyway, Conflict of Heroes is still my #1 favorite WW2 Tactical wargame series/system for its accessibility, ease of play, and high production values all while keeping a nice amount of historical flavor.
Hopefully some of the other expansions will come out later this year.
Only got to play Steam once so far, and I haven't played the other railroad games to compare it. But I like it, however one thing that all the players in our single game complained about was the double sided track tiles, which made for a very tedious searching process for the proper track. The board artwork and components are top notch though. It's a good game, it was just lengthened by the endless searching for that correct piece of track you needed.
I loved the income system which seemed daunting at first because you have to borrow so much money right away, but after you've developed your economic engine a bit and you actually start generating a positive cash flow, the game really kicks into a new gear.
The action tile selection is great too, and it doubles as a turn order system. The better action tile you choose, the later on the turn order you'll get. Nice and balanced trade off there. The game also accommodates 6 players, and I will certainly push for this to get to the table at the next group meeting.
Picked up this antique from some estate's moving sale today — they had accumulated over half a decade of stuffs. Lots of old Parker Brother staples that are still in print, but this one from an indie really caught my attention 'cos of theme and its artistic direction:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8rqX7erpo5Y/S_...6/IMG_1062.JPG
I have no idea what that stack of PIT cards is doing in there — it doesn't belong to this game, but I managed to pit it up pfhor pfhree 'cos it was in the box with the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Board Game Geek
Evidently a German company now holds the copyright since 1967, and has published 9 revised editions since:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2947/broker
Neat, I love old games.
I currently have a couple "older" games.
1 from the early 80s, one from the 70s, one from the 50's and my sister found me a copy of that young kids game called "Cootie" from 1949!
I love the art direction on older titles.
Wow. That's a great find.
So lately I've seriously been considering building a Catan board. My board is played so much it is starting to be a pain to keep together.
I had thought I could just buy a piece of plexi and lay it over top to keep everything in place but that doesn't sound as cool.
So I was thinking of something in the vein of train set scenery. Foam topography mounted to plywood type stuff.
Is this something people have done Duf? Any examples or short How To's for a newb.