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You can't deny it, even if you own one.
They have started gluing chips down with epoxy for gods sake.
The DVD-ROM drives get baked by the GPU's heatsink that sits directly under it.
I could go on and on...
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Some helpful links for those who have broken systems:
Xbox 360 Error codes (this includes the red lights of death)
Do not move your 360 with a disc in the drive!
Technical explanation as to why the Xbox 360 fails
Uh, shouldn't that be the ps2? I see 61 broken 360's from your link and 63 ps2's
Lets remember how long the PS2 has been out as compared to the Xbox 360Quote:
Originally Posted by eek
;)
Blue Dragon needs to hurry the fuck up and get here.
My 360 is collecting dust.
Hopefully it'll work when I turn it back on.
(Even last time I did turn it on I was having voice chat problems that I was unable to fix.)
Bought mine 2nd hand and had it over 15 months now and it still fine!
WINNAR IS MEY!
Your days are numbered ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoDragoN
Goddamn you manage to find some awesome sigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoDragoN
I had mine from April of last year until about 3 days ago. Traded it towards a 20GB PS3 at a local shop, got a really good deal. I figure I'll just get another one when Blue Dragon shows up, since there isn't a damned thing I wanna play all summer long on 360. VF5 and Tekken DR are keeping my mittens warm until then, along with Blu-Ray flicks.
My 360 never gave me any trouble, but I know plenty of people who have had a ton of issues with theirs. Scary in terms of reliability for sure. The PS3 library may be shit, but the system itself seems built like a fucking tank, and its hella quiet.
I might buy one and use that repair service offered on ebay. Over 1000 feedback. Cant go wrong I dont think as it sounds like they actually fix it.
Try 115 MillionQuote:
Originally Posted by wizkid007
Talking about us sales. Worldwide sales equal 160 million or something now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
60 america
50 euro
45 japan
+
Others. Something like that.
Depends on what they do to it. The "towel trick" is hardly a long-term fix, same with the heat gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid007
If they have an SMD rework station and can re-mount the CPU and GPU, or at least reflow the solder, then that might fix it...
Well, at least you can fix them when they break.
And don't give me shit about BGA chips, just get a heat gun and a reballing kit.
I agree I just stare at the ring everytime I turn mine on. I bought a used one long time ago and one day it had the 3 flashing red lights. Even since then Im not a big fan or trust the 360. I rarely play the one I have now but still im paranoid when I start it up :loco:
There is nothing wrong with using BGA chips in a game console, hell the Dreamcast, original Xbox, PS2, PS3, Gamecube, Wii, etc etc all use BGA mounted chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamYouToDeath
The point is, you pay good money for a game console, you shouldn't have to reheat or remove major ICs to remount or reball them.
I'd honestly like to get a X360, Blue Dragon seems awesome and I just can't wait for Lost Odyssey (which more than likely will become one of the best RPGs ever made)
but I'm really fucking scared about the reliability issue. Every single x360 owner I know has problems with his console (not necessarily the ring of death though)
I would also have to import it, since I'm in Europe, so this means no warranty at all, just a 30days money back guarantee.
I guess I just have to wait
Yeah, this weighs on my mind pretty heavily too. But, I took the plunge anyway. Been ok so far, but I haven't had it for long.
long time no see!Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos
you can get the system fixed is my understanding - if it does break down. since the problem is mostly to do with the cold solder, I read some brazillian tech was resoldering the chip in question with lead solder (yeah I know, not great) and that seemed to do the trick.
point is if it is fixable then 3 rings of death doesn't need to mean chuck the system in the bin type situation.
Using lead solder would probably fix the issue for good.
hey wassup boludo?Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
ah thanks, I know about the "towel trick" but didn't know about that.
I do have some soldering skills but Im not sure if I'd been able to do that alone, though I could ask a friend of mine.
I was also tempted to get an Elite, as I've heard it has a renewed mobo but $480 plus $80 of shipping is just too much atm
You'd have to have an SMD rework station to remove the chips. You *could* use a heat gun, but it would be hard as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos
The Elite has essentially the same components, they have just started gluing the chips down in an effort to keep them from forming cold solder joints. If it works or not remains to be seen I guess.
thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by 68k
ouch, so you need one of those bigass Ayue machines, or similar. I might try and steal one of those at my university :emb:
For some reason I think that the Elite is in another league. I mean M$ sucks, but I don't think they're so fucking stupid not to realize that the x360 has issues and a $480 flagship version of their console HAS to be reliable.
Have a look:
(this is a comparison between the original 360's mainboard and the Elite's mainboard)
http://www.mainstageclothing.com/360eliteanimated.gif
The only real change is the reworking needed to add the HDMI port and new video scalar.
You can see the glue present on the Elite's CPU and GPU.
The PS2 still holds that title, I'm afraid.
Agreed, some people seems to have rose colored glasses when it comes to the terrible PS2 failure rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishamon
The numbers don't lie.
I haven't had to go through 3 PS2s.
Epoxy is commonly used in electronics and have very high temperature (400k) resistance. So this could solve the problem but we won't know how effective it is until 6-8 months down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
Glue is not commonly used to keep ICs held to a PCB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastblade
So because you, one consumer, have had a lot of problems with the 360, and none with your PS2, that becomes the truth? Sorry to tell you man, but I never had one problem with my PS2, but that doesn't change the fact they had a high failure rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
Look on ebay my friend, all of those people aren't beating up their 360s. Facts are facts. I can promise you that I am not the only person to go through several 360s before giving up the battle. Haven't you seen all of these threads where people talk about getting the 3-red lights? Haven't you heard about this problem being excessively common?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedah Doma
Either it's a problem, or this thread has been shared around the world.
I had two GameCubes break on me.
Nintendo quality my ass :mad:
Personal experience is poor evidence for a widespread trend although it can really sour a consumers view for a product. Despite my troubles with the GameCube I knew the PS2 was still overall less reliable and continued to choose Nintendo products and peripherals over 3rd party junk, as for the 360 I have no idea, I don't know anyone with one so I can't even make a biased judgement.
True, and i'm not saying that the PS2 is a sound machine, because we all know it holds the number 2 spot seeing as the DVD drive is complete trash.Quote:
Originally Posted by lithy
Every console has their own individual problems, but the 360's failure rates are alarming.
;)
But it's not as common as the PS2 problem. You keep dodging that issue. There's no denying it's a problem, but the PS2 had a higher failure rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
lol read my posts, i'm not dodging anything. I've already said that the PS2 is a crappy machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedah Doma
Take a look at how many broken PS2s are on ebay as opposed to 360s with 3-red lights. Sure, there are just a few more PS2s, but considering the ~60 million PS2s as opposed to the ~10 million 360s, you do the math ;).
I've actually never had any system break ever. Even my original NES always worked and as far as I know it still does.
360 does have some issues though. MS gives everyone that retroactive 1 year extended warranty to make up for it I guess. As far as games go I love the thing so it's really too bad.
hopefully ms will pull their finger out and release the revised 360 soon with the fix for this problem and and quieter drive.
360 has got to be the first only console that has not made it though the first day for me, 1st one less than 1 hour, 2nd one 5 months, now on the 3rd, ticking time bomb imo.....
This might be a stupid thing to bring up, but do people realize that you get the red lights of doom if your system's AV cable isn't pushed in all the way? Some of the systems I've dealt with had really loose AV cables, particularly if you got a core system. My brother was about ready to ship his system off to MS when we discovered that his cable just wasn't wanting to stay in the back. Had no clue that it would cause red lights.
I can accept that an electronics device with moving parts (dvd drive) can break down eventually.
Sometimes PSU's and power buttons will also break down.
But to have a product where the motherboard routinely takes a shit in the first month, that is unacceptable.....
Yeah but that's 4-red lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmhawkmoon
What a stupid design feature. Duh... the system's on, but there's no picture. I don't need a fucking error light to tell me that the AV cable isn't in.
Heh, looks like i'm not the only one who has been having problems ;)
:shock:
I've put maybe 150 hours of total playtime on my 360, and the thing is locking up like crazy lately, so I'm afraid mine is its way out. As far as ps2 vs 360 reliability goes, I know at least 20 people online (not counting this site) who have had thier 360 die. A couple of them, multiple times. The number of people I've known with dead ps2s isn't anywhere close to that high. Not sure about overall numbers, but in my experience, 360 is the worst built console I've ever experienced.
Matt
Only systems I've ever had that died on me were both Playstations (1 and 2).
That said, its still alarming to see how often the issue of a broken 360 comes up. I've had mine since day one and its frozen up on me maybe twice, but hasn't even done that in over a year.
I've owned about 3-4 different 360s, all of which died a violent death.
lol quality
Well, I owned a couple game stores during the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube phase and a short time after the 360 was released. (Not long enough to compare to the others).
Out of the years that I ran the stores, I never had a defective Xbox, had 2-3 problematic Gamecubes (usually the open button sticking ect) and countless defective PS2 systems. It got to the point with PS2 systems that I would only take in certain model number and test them out a good 15 mins. while the customer waited. There were several that I purchased that read both CD and DVDs only to stop reading one or the other a short time later. It really just wasn't worth the risk. In the end, I only took in the PS2 Slim, which I never had any problems with.
As for the 360, I have had one defective myself but my replacement system is fine. I have owned four PS2 systems that were defective (prior to giving up) and the only problem I had with the Gamecube was the sticky open button.
That being said, personal experience doesn't translate to fact for everyone else. It seems that the early model PS2 systems had a very high failure rate. It seems that the early model 360 systems have a very high failure rate as well. Where, I have not heard about a lot of problems with the PS3 and the Wii.
You're not sure if you owned three or four 360s? :spock:Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG
I've had my 360 for 6 months now. Zero problems so far. I'm debating selling it once the warranty's up and holding out for a more reliable model. I could be waiting forever :p
Yet again, I've got to bring a little reality into the mix. The PS2 has been out for close to seven years now. The 360 has been out for only a little over a year. While the PS2 has been out longer and sold more systems, at this time, there are more faulty 360's because they are new. You won't see as many faulty PS2 because it's seven years down the line and the bugs have gotten worked out. If you would rewind the clock seven years and compare the PS2 in 2001 to the 360 in 2007, you would see the PS2 had a much higher fail rate in that same time period compared to the 360.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
Hell, Sony had a class action lawsuit filed against them. That's just bad.
Microsoft has managed to keep themselves out of trouble by extending the warranties on models manufactured in 2005, but those aren't the only models to have problems, they span the entire production run to date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedah Doma
The PS2 still has problems dude, I know because I repair them. The 3xxxx models all the way to the 5xxxx and 7xxxx slims. The slims have terrible lasers!
As previously noted, each console has their own problems, but the 360's problems go far beyond a faulty disc drive. It's common problem is with the mainboard, an issue the PS2 never had.
Here's a piece of info for you, no one cares why there's a problem, just the fact that there is one is bad enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68k
PS2 Owner: "My PS2 has stopped working"
Sony Rep: "Well, there's something wrong with the laser, but at least it's not a mainboard like the 360's"
PS2 Owner: "Ummm right, well that's great, but I don't care why, it's still broken"
Sony Rep: "But isn't it good that it's not a mainboard problem but a laser problem?"
PS2 Owner: "Who cares, it's broke either way."
Sorry man, don't try and split hairs with me. Broke is broke, and the reason why it's broke doesn't matter to the consumer. They want it fixed.
Again, trying to throw smoke and mirrors to dodge the main issue.