So is everyone happy now that the Republicans got their asses handed to them?

I am a left leaning independant, but I generally am irritated by all the whining I hear from political losers. So, now that the Republicans got fucking trounced- is everyone kind of mollified yet?

The American people didn't vote out of their asses like they did 2 years ago, and now the Dems are poised to start fighting back proper.

Of course, I think the Democratic party is a bunch of pussies that self-sabotages 80% of the time.

Just muzzle Kerry, Dean and the repellent Al Gore and handle your fucking business and take the White House in 2008.

Let the Conservatives swollow their pride like in 1992 and make Rush Limbaugh the hottest place for angry people to vent their white rage.

No more complaining until '08- ok?

i wonder how many people were really just voting not republican.

Hey now, Dean is the reason the Dems won in places like Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, and Montana. If it were up to Emmanuel and Schumer, we wouldn't have won half of those races.

Dean's strategy was "be competitive in every state", Emanuel/Schumer was "fight the battles you know you can win." Dean may be a firebrand, but he's got big balls and he doesn't take shit from anybody.

I don't really care as long as the economy is good and the stock market is up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

Hey now, Dean is the reason the Dems won in places like Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, and Montana. If it were up to Emmanuel and Schumer, we wouldn't have won half of those races.

Dean's strategy was "be competitive in every state", Emanuel/Schumer was "fight the battles you know you can win." Dean may be a firebrand, but he's got big balls and he doesn't take shit from anybody.

---

Quoted for truth.

And it bears mentioning that for all the crap Gore gets, more people voted for him than for Bush in 2000. I'm just sayin'.

The donkeys just took the Senate.

I'm thoroughly enjoying my Sam Adams Light right now.

That is all.

Let's hear it for a higher minimum wage, stem cell research, checks and balances, and separation of church and state.

Slainte! Salud!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

Hey now, Dean is the reason the Dems won in places like Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, and Montana. If it were up to Emmanuel and Schumer, we wouldn't have won half of those races.

Dean's strategy was "be competitive in every state", Emanuel/Schumer was "fight the battles you know you can win." Dean may be a firebrand, but he's got big balls and he doesn't take shit from anybody.

---

I thought that Schumer did most of the recruitment...

Anyways it worked.....

Put a real Westener like Schweitzer and Tester or in there... Let them show the people that there is more to the democratic party and liberals than just abortion, Wellfare and noguns. Soon Dems will start to spread. Wyoming is next.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

I'm thoroughly enjoying my Sam Adams Light right now.

That is all.

Let's hear it for a higher minimum wage, stem cell research, checks and balances, and separation of church and state.

Slainte! Salud!

---

The minimum wage is to the GOP what Guns used to be to the Dems.

Once the democrats moved gun controll to the fringe of thier platform, they started to do better in the interior.

And for once the Pro Choicers shut their damn mouths...... They realized that thier goals would be better furthered by shutting up. Casey could have never gotten the PA Nomination 6 years ago..... It took guys like Sanatorm for the choicers to allow thier platform to go to the backburner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neobuyer

I am a left leaning independant, but I generally am irritated by all the whining I hear from political losers. So, now that the Republicans got fucking trounced- is everyone kind of mollified yet?

The American people didn't vote out of their asses like they did 2 years ago, and now the Dems are poised to start fighting back proper.

Of course, I think the Democratic party is a bunch of pussies that self-sabotages 80% of the time.

Just muzzle Kerry, Dean and the repellent Al Gore and handle your fucking business and take the White House in 2008.

Let the Conservatives swollow their pride like in 1992 and make Rush Limbaugh the hottest place for angry people to vent their white rage.

No more complaining until '08- ok?

---

I'm interested to see if they can keep up this momentum.

And not be dumb enough to run Hillary.

I've always been a fan of a mixed party Executive and Legislative branch. I think it actually makes people work together more, and better law is the end result.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

I'm thoroughly enjoying my Sam Adams Light right now.

That is all.

Let's hear it for a higher minimum wage, stem cell research, checks and balances, and separation of church and state.

Slainte! Salud!

---

Higher minimum wage? And who exactly is that going to benefit? Many states already have a higher than federal minimum wage, and generally people only make minimum wage for the first 6 months of employment or so... unless they've got a real loser job. You're pretty much the only Democrat whose opinion I respect around here, surely you don't honestly think an extra 25¢ an hour mandate will do much good.

Hee hee, and you say hooray for checks and balances now, but what if Hillary Clinton gets elected in 2008 and the Dems control both Congress and the Presidency? Will you be making that same cheer then? :)

I'm not really upset about the elections. I think this will be a good time for the Reps to re-organize and come back stronger in the long run.

The Democrats have moaned for years that they can do better, so now that they're in the spotlight with Congress, let's see what they truly can do. Personally, I'm betting it won't be too long before they destroy themselves again, especially with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. But we'll see.

For now, it should be a nice change for the nation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

Higher minimum wage? And who exactly is that going to benefit? Many states already have a higher than federal minimum wage, and generally people only make minimum wage for the first 6 months of employment or so... unless they've got a real loser job. You're pretty much the only Democrat whose opinion I respect around here, surely you don't honestly think an extra 25¢ an hour mandate will do much good.

Hee hee, and you say hooray for checks and balances now, but what if Hillary Clinton gets elected in 2008 and the Dems control both Congress and the Presidency? Will you be making that same cheer then? :)

I'm not really upset about the elections. I think this will be a good time for the Reps to re-organize and come back stronger in the long run.

The Democrats have moaned for years that they can do better, so now that they're in the spotlight with Congress, let's see what they truly can do. Personally, I'm betting it won't be too long before they destroy themselves again, especially with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. But we'll see.

For now, it should be a nice change for the nation.

---

Uh, not everybody who is making the minimum wage gets nice wage increases. When I worked a minimum wage job, this lady who worked the job a year got a 10 cent raise at her review to bring her to a whopping $5.25 an hour. $7.25 an hour is a modest increase. I'm for paying people good pay for good work. It's not fair to pay people a wage that doesn't actually do anything for them.

Even if a Democrat gets elected President in 2008, you are forgetting that the Supreme Court is pretty conservative right now. Checks and balances could still be preserved. But to be fair, if the Dems get drunk with power like Bush has, I'll move against them as well.

I'm not even sure why everybody hates Nancy Pelosi. This is just another example of fear mongering on the far right. They have been talking about Pelosi for the past week as if having her speaker will make the entire nation collapse. The Republicans need to return to their small government, non intrusive roots. Until they do that, they won't get my vote no matter what. It's going to take awhile for that to happen. Maybe even more Congressional losses or a loss of the Presidency in 2008.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

Higher minimum wage? And who exactly is that going to benefit? .

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1. College students who have seen the price of Tuition and Book explode over the last 10 years.

2. People who's livelyhood depends on the minimum wage.

3. Wal Mart (Yep, that's right... Wallmart supports an increase in the minimum wage)

4. Communities who's unfunded Medicaid rolls are expanding.

5. Small Buisnesses (Yep!)

6. People who are looking for a second job to get ahead.



The real question is.... Who is going to suffer from the Minimum wage?

Not many people or companies.... Empirical, unbiased data suggests so.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!O DOYLE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!
http://stb.msn.com/i/B9/F989DC73D95F...6F403C4C41.jpg
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!O DOYLE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

Higher minimum wage? And who exactly is that going to benefit?

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All the Americans that do not go to college or those that go to college and still don't land a magical high paying job....so probably just tens of millions.

The rest of the world is happy too

And to answer the question, yes, I will admit to deriving a certain visceral joy from it.

Out with the Republicrats, in with the Demublicans.

I just did a straight ticket vote for Democrats

I don't usually do that

but I said fuck it this time

I also voted for Daffy Duck, Mickey Mouse, Ian Curtis for the judge votes and such

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norton9478

1The real question is.... Who is going to suffer from the Minimum wage?

Not many people or companies.... Empirical, unbiased data suggests so.

---

Wouldn't those who are making than minimum wage but still earning less than the national poverty level be the ones who suffer?

If the minimum wage increases from the current $5.15 to $7.25, that's a $2.10 raise for those at the bottom rung of the ladder. For those of us who've worked our way up a few rungs on the ladder, we will not see that big of an increase in our wages, if any at all. Naturally a company is going to want to maintain the same profit margins and to do so they could scale back benefits by going with lower cost plans that do not offer the same amount of coverage or require higher deductibles.

Also, they may very well pass the burden of higher employee costs onto the consumer and raise the prices of their goods to help offset things. If the costs of goods goes up, those making minimum wage aren't really making any more than they were before since they have to pay more for an item and those who were higher up on the pay scale would actually be making less since my cost of living has gone up but my rate of pay has not.

My part-time job at Gamestop nets me just over the $7.25 increase level now. It took me the better part of 7 years this month to get to that amount. I started at a little over minimum wage back in '99 because of my previous experience working in a Funcoland. All those merit raises, cost of living raises, and such amount to jack shit now and in one fell swoop. I would have had no problem if they boosted the minimum wage modestly up to say $6.00. It should have jumped to that amount right around the turn of the century anyway IMO.

/shrug I just need to win the MF'ing lottery already :loco:

i'm in the military, i'm fucked either way lol. I either go and get killed for a lie or get my paycheck cut in half and then possibly loose my job to downsizing lol :buttrock:

However, I'm glad to see the Republicans ousted right now. I'd had it with the bullshit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

Blah Blah Blah.

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You're a douche.

This election proved that the people who think like you do are the exception and not the rule. A higher minimum wage will benefit the influx of non-skilled labor that opens up once the Democrats introduce comprehensive immigration reform that doesn't involve deporting hardworking and otherwise law-abiding undocumented workers or punishing small farmers for trying to stay competitive.

The Democrats will raise the estate tax, so that the Paris Hiltons of the world won't be able to move their inheritances around through foreign banks, robbing Americans of billions of dollars in social services and public works in the process.

They will pull troops out of Iraq and force the Iraqi government to end its selfish appeasement of the insurgency and allow us to focus on Iran and North Korea as we should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ttooddddyy

The rest of the world is happy too

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STFU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A man who has good taste with regard to light beer

They will pull troops out of Iraq and force the Iraqi government to end its selfish appeasement of the insurgency and allow us to focus on Iran and North Korea as we should be.

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The question is pull the troops out of Iraq...when?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roker

I also voted for..... Ian Curtis for the judge votes and such

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Dear GOD Roker

You get the Joy Division prize for coolest post in November.

Of course, November is still happeneing, so don't get cocky.

personally I don't think we can ever leave Iraq

god

not at least for another 5 years

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

You're a douche.

This election proved that the people who think like you do are the exception and not the rule. A higher minimum wage will benefit the influx of non-skilled labor that opens up once the Democrats introduce comprehensive immigration reform that doesn't involve deporting hardworking and otherwise law-abiding undocumented workers or punishing small farmers for trying to stay competitive.

---

A douche, am I? Hah, petty insults are no way win an argument.

You know as well as I that this election only proved that President Bush has run the Republican party down the toilet, and that many of the Democrats who were elected on Tuesday squeezed out a victory because of the pandemic hostility toward Republicans right now.

And that "influx of non-skilled labor" you speak of is one of the major things that's gonna tear the Democratic party down (and coincidentally one of the major issues against the Bush administration). You can call them "undocumented workers" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that they broke the laws of a soveign nation, they're sapping money away in welfare programs, and they're only increasing every day. Maybe you haven't seen the effects of it in your neck of the woods, but here in California, I have. I've watched my neighborhood go to crap over the last 20 years because almost nothing is being done to address the problem, lest you be branded a racist.

More to the point about raising minimum wage, I still maintain that it's not going to help anybody. Low-end businesses are going to be more selective about who they choose to hire (hurting the "unskilled" demographic), and they're just going to pass the extra cost down on consumers. In the long run, all it will do is contribute toward inflation, which is currently on a favorable downward trend.

But I digress... most of you have probably stopped reading by now anyway so you can ready up your delightful flaming responses at me. So let me throw you for a loop and say this: I hope the Democrats will succeed. If the "new direction" they want to go in is truly the right direction, then it will surely be good for this nation, and I want this nation to be great.

Zenimus wasn't happy

Democrats killed baby Jesus and used his stem cells for research

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

Hey now, Dean is the reason the Dems won in places like Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, and Montana. If it were up to Emmanuel and Schumer, we wouldn't have won half of those races.

Dean's strategy was "be competitive in every state", Emanuel/Schumer was "fight the battles you know you can win." Dean may be a firebrand, but he's got big balls and he doesn't take shit from anybody.

---

Cheers to the big tent. In the run up to election day I heard that there was some internal bickering between the two camps you just mentioned, but looking back now, I think Democrats will recognize that Dean was right to formulate a hyperopic vision for the Democratic party, to start building the party's foundation for years to come at each election cycle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neobuyer

Dear GOD Roker

You get the Joy Division prize for coolest post in November.

Of course, November is still happeneing, so don't get cocky.

---

the night is young

and I'm sober

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roker

Zenimus wasn't happy

Democrats killed baby Jesus and used his stem cells for research

---

What the heck are you talking about? :spock: I've got no beef against stem cell research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hikaru Ichijyo

Wouldn't those who are making than minimum wage but still earning less than the national poverty level be the ones who suffer?

If the minimum wage increases from the current $5.15 to $7.25, that's a $2.10 raise for those at the bottom rung of the ladder. For those of us who've worked our way up a few rungs on the ladder, we will not see that big of an increase in our wages, if any at all. Naturally a company is going to want to maintain the same profit margins and to do so they could scale back benefits by going with lower cost plans that do not offer the same amount of coverage or require higher deductibles.

Also, they may very well pass the burden of higher employee costs onto the consumer and raise the prices of their goods to help offset things. If the costs of goods goes up, those making minimum wage aren't really making any more than they were before since they have to pay more for an item and those who were higher up on the pay scale would actually be making less since my cost of living has gone up but my rate of pay has not.

My part-time job at Gamestop nets me just over the $7.25 increase level now. It took me the better part of 7 years this month to get to that amount. I started at a little over minimum wage back in '99 because of my previous experience working in a Funcoland. All those merit raises, cost of living raises, and such amount to jack shit now and in one fell swoop. I would have had no problem if they boosted the minimum wage modestly up to say $6.00. It should have jumped to that amount right around the turn of the century anyway IMO.

/shrug I just need to win the MF'ing lottery already :loco:

---

That is all a good argument...

However, Ussually those Near Minimum wage jobs are bumped up when it goes up. Ussually a little while afterwards...

Inflation is the Factor in increasing the minimum wage... Evidence that an increase in the minimum wage causes inflation is scant and unreliable... As long as you are talking about the US and not some place like Argentina.

Evidence shows that when minimum wages get bumped, Companies do more to become more effiecient, this creates long term benifits.

To use a gamestore as an example, remember that a good portion of your market or potential market are people who make at or near minimum wage.... So any increases in costs can be offset.

.................................................. ..................................
If we don't increase the minimum wage now (when it's buying power is near the lowest that it has ever been), then when????

We can't hold off forever.... 90% of the persons who oppose any raise to the minimum wage will never support ANY increase...

The Minimum wage has been established for like 40 years...... It's not going to be getting dumped. But just leaving it as is is the same as dumping it.



P.S. If they raied the Minimum wage to $10.00, I'll get a second job washing DIshes.... And I'm one of the best fucking dishwashers on the fucking planet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

The Democrats will raise the estate tax, so that the Paris Hiltons of the world won't be able to move their inheritances around through foreign banks, robbing Americans of billions of dollars in social services and public works in the process.

be.

---

You commie!!!!!!!!

The HIlton Cysters work hard for thier money.... If you tax the fuck out of them, they won't work so hard.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

What the heck are you talking about? :spock: I've got no beef against stem cell research.

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I didn't say you did

but you're not happy about the GOP losing

that's what I meant

the other stuff was more or less a knock against the GOP

Yes, it's put up or shut up time for the Dems.

We're in charge again, and we have to do things on matters both sides can agree on, and if there's something that there cannot be compromise on, vote it and let it be on record.

What most folks don't even realize is the extreme procedural assholery that went on in Newt's (and then Denny's) House of Reps. They manipulated rules in unprecedented ways that Dems never messed with. When Karl Rove spoke of building a "permanent Republican majority", he wasn't bullshitting...this was a common idea amongst the wingnuts.

I also hope to God no one gives any serious thought to try and impeach Bush.
Even though I personally feel as if he's proven incompetent enough to deserve it, it would be incredibly damaging for the nation if a precedent were set that every time the opposite party retook Congress they'd try to impeach the sitting President of the other party.
The country is starved for some creative solutions and some genuine bi-partisan legislation...there is a ton of ground that can be covered. If the Democrats can again serve the silent, apolitical middle who is largely socially liberal and fiscally conservative, they will continue to succeed. If anything, the political turmoil of this entire cycle from 1994-2006 shows that there is a real desperate need for leadership...free of ideological shoe-banging or religious zealotry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loopz

What most folks don't even realize is the extreme procedural assholery that went on in Newt's (and then Denny's) House of Reps. They manipulated rules in unprecedented ways that Dems never messed with. When Karl Rove spoke of building a "permanent Republican majority", he wasn't bullshitting...this was a common idea amongst the wingnuts..

---

It took the Dems 40 years of running the house to become mildy corrupt.

It took the Republicans 6 years.


Also, NO reason to Impeach Bush..... I'm sure he's done something bad enough to land his ass in prison after he leaves...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roker

I didn't say you did

but you're not happy about the GOP losing

that's what I meant

the other stuff was more or less a knock against the GOP

---

I'm not happy about the GOP losing, but I'm not really sad about it either. If anything, it will be good to hear less annoying remarks about how horrible this country is.

Now that the Dems have the power that they longed for, it's time to see what they can really do. We'll find out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norton9478

It took the Republicans 6 years.

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The Republicans were in charge of the House since 1994...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loopz

I also hope to God no one gives any serious thought to try and impeach Bush.
Even though I personally feel as if he's proven incompetent enough to deserve it, it would be incredibly damaging for the nation if a precedent were set that every time the opposite party retook Congress they'd try to impeach the sitting President of the other party.

---

I don't think Nancy Pelosi has gone on record to say there will be no impeachment proceedings, but I heard the political analysis this morning, from political scientists and professors who dissected the victory speeches at the Democratic gathering in Washington, suggesting that impeachment is not on the agenda. Minimum wage is definitely on the agenda, and this time without the bullshit Estate tax repeal that Republicans attached to their last competing proposal. Tom Kean Jr. tried to use Menendez's vote against that Estate Tax/Minimum Wage bill in his televised debate, but Menendez effectively neutralized his opponent by pointing out that it was a Republican competing bill that tried to sneak further tax cuts past legislation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

I'm not happy about the GOP losing, but I'm not really sad about it either. If anything, it will be good to hear less annoying remarks about how horrible this country is.

Now that the Dems have the power that they longed for, it's time to see what they can really do. We'll find out.



The Republicans were in charge of the House since 1994...

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The republicans didn't take controll the house until January of 1995. Thier mechanizations had sown the seeds of corruption by 2001........

Perhaps there should now be a trial, and lets see Bush swing for his atrocities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenimus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norton9478

It took the Dems 40 years of running the house to become mildy corrupt.

It took the Republicans 6 years.

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The Republicans were in charge of the House since 1994...

---

:rolleyes:

we need reading classes here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ttooddddyy

Perhaps there should now be a trial, and lets see Bush swing for his atrocities.

---

:rolleyes: , and I've never used this emoticon before. I still like you however. Bitter foreigners are a pleasure to tease.


On a personal note, I am glad the Republicans are out. Back in '94 they replaced some seriously fucked up democrats and made some good changes.

Jesus H. Christ they've fucked up a lot. I still hold to my convictions in the ideals of the Republican party, even though very few Republicans in power do.

I'm an optimist and think the Democrats will be able to clean things up and get the country back on a track of progress.

On a side note, I think this is in the natural order of things. When the economy is good, Republicans usually take control. When the economy takes a dive, Democrats are normally voted in.

More on the minimum wage increase...

Norton's point is apt. All people at the lower rungs of income should see pay increases as a result of the minimum wage. I really don't think it will result in inflation for 3 reasons. The first reason is that the people who make minimum wage spend every penny they earn, so they will put their additional income right back into the economy. Consumer spending may rise as a result, and businesses could benefit (which is basically why Wal Mart supports an increase in the minimum wage). The second reason is that it's not really that much of an increase, but more like a correction. If the minimum wage stays at $5.15 for 9 years, it's actually decreasing every year when inflation is taken into account. The third reason is that it's been documented that the growth in the economy in the last few years has seen much of the growth go to shareholders and executives and not to labor. It's not like these companies won't make money if they have to increase their minimum wage payments. In fact, think about wages as a proportion of revenue for a store. If a store takes in about $3K in business a day with 2 minimum wage employees and a salaried manager in a 10 hour day, it's just an extra $42 or so of extra expense. In the big scheme of things, it's not like it's going to put people out of business.

Somebody mentioned that increasing the minimum wage will make employers more selective about who they hire. Isn't that a good thing? Won't the quality of labor rise and perhaps productivity if the minimum wage is more appealing? Just a thought...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK

immigration reform that doesn't involve deporting hardworking and otherwise law-abiding undocumented workers or punishing small farmers for trying to stay competitive.

---

WTF?
They broke the damn law the moment they set foot on US soil.

Quote:

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The Democrats will raise the estate tax, so that the Paris Hiltons of the world won't be able to move their inheritances around through foreign banks, robbing Americans of billions of dollars in social services and public works in the process.

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So....People & their families should be punished for being successful?

So I am assuming pot and marijuana will have medical status in the near future?:conf:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HellioN

WTF?
They broke the damn law the moment they set foot on US soil.

---

So did the employers who knowingly hired them for a handful of dirt.

Do you blame the starving mouse who eats the cheese, or the dickhead who keeps putting the cheese out there?

Im personally all for the min wage increase. However I do feel that they could do something about the people that pay the wages for the increase. Why not give them a tax break at the end of the yr for the people that fit the standards of a certain amount of income who own these small businesses that would be affected by this.

I know some people would still take advantage and say I cant afford it etc. But making it worth while might be a good offset overall for such a move by the democrates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HellioN

WTF?
They broke the damn law the moment they set foot on US soil.



?

---

It's a civil offense...

You can't even be deported for most civil offenses.

I spit in public all the time......

The Bush Dictatorship has been toppled, Bush's statue in front of the Capitol Hill taken down and the Bush Wall of Division has been destroyed, millions seen climbing over.



http://www.dudehisattva.com/topplebush2.jpg








http://www.dudehisattva.com/topplebush1.jpg

I doubt the Democrats'd have the balls to try and impeach Bush. I don't think he's done anything to warrant an impeachment- just like Clinton didn't. Not to say I agree with Iraq. But eveyone KNEW he'd 'stay the course' in '04 and he actually won the election fair and square. You can't impeach him- he had a mandate for real the last time.

Like Loopz said, impeachment sets a dangerous precident.

Just let the guy term out and get a STRONG democratic candidate in '08. Simple.