...that's what happen when guys in suits visit a war zone..:rolleyes:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
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...that's what happen when guys in suits visit a war zone..:rolleyes:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
That's probly the best use of the U.N. I've seen in years.
head in a jar!
head in a jar!
If it comes down to Israel versus the UN, who would you put your money on? I think I have to give the edge to Israel in the tenacity and sticktoitiveness (sp? it is a word, right?) department. UN wins hands down in procrastination and waffling, but I don't think that will help them here.
Greatest butchery of the English language as thread title ever?Quote:
so 4 un offical's got killed
I feel cheated that I'm not watching this war in HD.
http://hd.net/op_worldreport.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Abasuto
The actual UN has zero to no legitimate military capability.Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthtownKid
They don't have attack aircraft, they don't have tanks, and i'm pretty sure they have nothing larger than a .50cal machine gun as far as heavy armament is concerned.
This is going to be even more of a bloodbath than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
The big guns (realistically) only come in when it's in the best interest of one or more of the member states to intervene and assure the success of the UN mission (the Korean War for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthtownKid
Checkout the foriegn film No Man's Land for an interesting take on the UN and for an all around good film.
IMDB:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/
The UN reached their peak shortly after they were formed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
That was the Korean War.
It's been all downhill since then.
On another note, I'm currently reading John Lewis Gaddis' The Cold War: A New History.
Phenomenal read that I highly recommend...it's for my final class so I can graduate with my history degree. Then off to grad school I go.
It's the summer and i'm too lazy to read anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
I do graduate in december, but i wont be going to grad school for at least a year or so after that.
Yes the summer makes it difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf
I currently have William Edward Hartpole Lecky's 8 volume "A History of England in the 18th Century" laying around with a slew of other books that I can't seem to get around to reading. I need to read that set though...was able to get the editions printed in the 1870s and 1880s. Nice feeling when a book has been around for over 120 years. :)
Awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
I have a lot of books on my shelf I haven't got through yet. Oh well.
Talk of the UN reminded me that i wanted to read this book:
Shake Hands with the Devil: The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda
It's by the UN commander in Rwanda during the whole genocide mess. He had a really good interview in Armachair General of all places and I liked what he had to say about his role in the whole debacle and his message about fixing the worlds problems.
Anyone read this?
The military wing of the UN is bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.
Seriously, when push comes to shove, it's the US that gets its hands dirty.
In this case, those UN observers did nothing to stop Hizbollah from permeating across the border, and they will continue to do nothing. Israel will continue to overreact just like they always do and kill thousands of civilians for no apparent reason in the process, meanwhile the rest of the world somehow decides that Hizbollah is the most rational player involved.
What is the world coming to?
Resurrect Truman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoriquaSNK
That is the only solution.
Truman would roll up his sleeves and put each side in their respective place.
Singlehandedly, while drunk.
Truman is the man.
Fuck Israel.
my take: they done this as a warning to countries thinking of sending troops for peace keeping purposes as was being discussed (Argentina was contemplaiting it - they had quite alot of personel in Haiti when the situation went to shit over there). this has definetly made them think twice.
so like I said.
Fuck Israel.
I dont think this was intentional.
I think it's a sign that Isreal is overreacting in the extreme and is causing too many civilian casualties (like we didn't know that already).
Someone should put both sides in their places.
I think Israel was completely justified in attacking southern Lebanon, but it should have been a limited decapititation attack against Hizbollah...not some melodramatic artillery bombardment and occupation.
Israel, like the US and the rest of the western world simply does not see value in the lives of non-citizens. It's a bi-product of being a developed nation and history has shown it to be an inevitable attitude.
USS Liberty Part Deuce.
..GWB is cought in the middle.. cause the us is gonna send in more troops into iraq to restore some order in the capitals.. cause right now it's a average of 100 dead a day the capital... so iraq's president came to america to ask for help.. and i saw on the new yesterday that .. the new prezident of iraq.. have some link with the hezlbellah group.. and the us is backing isreal
I personally feel Israel has every right to do what they are doing.
Civilian casualties are going to occur in the sort of fighting situation currently going on.
Terrorists like to hide among the civilian populations...there's not much you can do about it.
The Israelis know what they are doing.
And that's the scariest fact of all.
They know what they're doing.
Israel has a right to demolish whole appartment buildings? what the fuck are you smoking? is crack cocaine legal where you live? have you seen the news? this is not collateral, Israel is deliberatly destroying Lebanon. watch impartial news broadcasts please - CNN does not count.
and the UN gave as many as 10 warnings to Israeli comanders that their people where there - the spot was clearly marked and yet Israel blows it up anyway - what the hell do you call that then?
it's sick how lopsided all this shit is. 1 Israeli life is worth 100 Lebanese and 1000 Palestinian lives give or take. not to mention Iraq is a dump and their puppet leader goes off to blow US congress and plays all the right notes - 'Irak is the front line in the fight against terrorism' - well it sure as fuck wasn't before was it? what's worse, getting killed by Saddam's cronies or getting blown up whilst having a coffee at your local bar? mmhh.. I'd say both are pretty shitty. lol democracy and the devalued worthless currency it's printed on. like I've always said - what's the use of having freedom if your dead? how about if you don't want to participate in building a better tomorow - or you don't want to be a martyr for the 'greater good'? how about if you just want to live? so there will always be civilian casualties? how about if they where your own? I don't think you'd be saying that then.
fuck Israel, and fuck the rest of the world for turning a blind eye. I swear this shit will end up giving me a stroke one day.
rant off.
I love how this always plays out..
Monday: There will be few civilian casualties. With our technology, we hit very specific targets. Each Target has been carefully selected.
Thursday: There will always be civilian casualties and mistakes... It's the nature of war.
Don't listen to BoriquaSNK - he's confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
The entire point of this conflict is plain and simple - disarm Iran. Hezbolla is one of Iran's best cards. With Hezbolla out of the picture, how will Iran pose as a threat to Israel and US interests? Khamenei can't order Hezbolla to cause trouble in Israel as easily as before. It also isolates Syria from Iran, which is major. By cutting off all of Iran's proxy defenses, Iran will have no power to deny the US, and a ground attack in Iran will not be necessary to bully the US interests.
Israel has the ability to execute surgically precise attacks - which is braggable considering most any army cannot. Was Israel being sloppy. No. Anyone who thinks that is blind, deaf, and dumb.
You need to step off your soapbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
You can thank the Nazis for the current situation because one of the things the Israelis learned was that they have to stand up for themselves.
Look, it's quite simple.
If Israel tomorrow said, "OK, we will put down our weapons and we will not fight anymore to avoid innocent deaths."
Do you have any idea what would happen?
You would have terrorists running into Israel to kill off Israelis left and right...
These people have one goal in life...dead Jews.
You do understand that if Hezbollah was willing to have given over the prisoners that they took, this would not have happened?
Just because you arer an anti-Semite does not mean you are right OK.
Oh and by the way on the note of Iraq...the world can thank Israel for the Hussein regime not getting the atomic bomb for the 1991 Gulf War. If it wasn't for that military strike by the Israeli fighter jets against the Osirak Reactor in June of '81 who knows where we would be right now.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jro
I thought it was a thread about saccing boot Neo carts. The "un officials" threw me off. :spock:
lol. antisemite? anti zionist maybe but anti semite? you don't know what you're talking about. do I need to say 'one of my best friends is a jew' to justify my views? you can't play the victim card forever you know - one people's suffering is not more sacred than another's. end of story - with that this discussion should come to an end.
in the end I disagree with you on most points. soap box, no - people are dying for no reason other than wrong place wrong time. it's shit, and it's real. I'm jaded but this crap brings me back to life.
Wasabi - listen to him. he's talking sense.
I don't mean to be rude to you, but I find some of the stuff you say almost offensive.
I just found out that Hasidics are anti Semites...
YAY!
Blah blah blah.Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
It's not about playing the victim card...you need to be able to comprehend what I said.
I said you can thank the Nazis for why the Israelis act the way they do in this current day and age. Generally when your people have been nearly wiped off of the face of the Earth it tends to change the way you deal with things whether it is right or wrong.
You basically ignored most of what I said and labeled it as being close to "offensive" because you have your own set of beliefs that you cannot deviate from.
Instead of yakking away like an ill-informed idiot you should attempt to understand the "WHY" of this. This is not something that is so clear cut as you any many other people believe.
I just happen to agree with the Israeli side of this.
If you want to point fingers, point them where they belong, at Hezbollah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
You're so confused... Nazis?! The one thing the Israelis learned from the Nazis was how to effectively conduct a genocide. If the Israelis were any smarter, they might know how to cover it up too. But these Israelis are too bloodthirsty to care.
Of course the Israelis cannot just drop their guns and pick up olive branches. They've killed so many innocent Arabs that the "terrorists" don't even need to go in to kill the Israelis - no, the families and survivors of the innocent victims will do the job for them.How many of the 400+ victims were Hezbolla? 20? That's what Hezbolla claimed, and they would be proud to claim their people martyrs, dying in a fight against the Zionists. The Israeli attacks are nothing more than pure terrorism.
Israel cannot just ceasefire - that's for sure. They need to now fight for the rest of their lives.
I have nothing against you, but you should stop embarrassing yourself. If you think this is about Israel and Hezbolla, you're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
Embarassing myself?Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Hardly.
To sit there and say that the only thing that the Israelis learned from the Nazis was how to effectively commit genocide? That just reeks of ignorance and stupidity on your part.
Open your eyes.
Israel and Hezbollah are the primary reasons of this current issue.
There are always other things in the backdrop that help to contribute to why this is currently happening...such as Iran.
Calling the Israeli attacks pure terrorism?
:lolz:
I'm sorry but the fact that you are going to quote Hezbollah's figures for actual members killed is classic.
Nothing more needs to be said.
And I'm sorry too, but the fact that you think this war is about the two kidnapped soldiers is even more of a classic.Quote:
I'm sorry but the fact that you are going to quote Hezbollah's figures for actual members killed is classic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
I don't think this was the case. On this occasion at least. But don't the Israelis have a reputation of shooting snoopy journalists and news teams by "accident" every now and then?
ANYWAY:
-Wasabi is right.
-That story about the kidnapped soldiers=horseshit.
-An "anti-semite" used to be a person who hated jews...today it's a person hated BY jews.
-there is no oil shortage...and these wars are being used to justify price hikes...and to sell fuckloads of weapons. Look at the earnings of these defense contractors in the US....and tell me these future wars will have anything to do with "terrorism" or stability in the middle east....lol:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
This occured because
.........................Hezbolla and Israeli forces clashed in a firefight and Hezbolla managed to kidnap the two surviving Israelis, which they tried to use as negotiating chips in a trade for Hezbolla prisoners.
.........................Israel responds by invading Lebanon, bombing the hell out of lebanon, killing 300+ innocent civilians by Israel's numbers, or 400+ civilians by Hezbolla's and Lebanon's numbers.
disparate uses of force - why? To make a point. Use of force to make a point? What's that? Terrorism. Killing innocent people to coerce people to do something - to get mad at Hezbolla? Sounds like killing innocent Americans to make them mad at the US government in 9/11. These acts are all terrorism. And they are wrong. You cannot use force to make someone do something. Period. If you cannot see that, then you should step out of political threads forever, DangerousK. You can disagree with me that Israel is right or wrong, but you cannot take the facts - even those "facts" spun by Israel, and not call their actions terrorism. Because if you refuse to call Israel's actions terrorism, then you would have to concede that the Al Qaeda are peace loving hippies.
DangerousK there is no WHY in this whole ordeal. sorry. there's no justification for wiping out whole families because they where 'in the way' (of nothing), and proclaiming dismissively that it's a shame when innocent life is lost but.... Israel does not care, arab life is worthless to them, just ask fighter17. you have no clue, and I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I'm not up for flaming, I just feel very strongly about this, and I don't like what I say to be misconstrued. I have no problem with common people, I believe we are all the same - I have a problem with opression.
http://dc.indymedia.org/mod/otherpre...4054/index.php
:rolleyes:
EDIT: eh, Might as well post a couple of other food-for-thought articles:
http://progressive.org/media_mpzinn030806
http://www.ericmargolis.com
Yes, surgically precise attacks on UN peacekeepers. I for one don't believe Israel did it intentionally, and that negates your entire argument about the competence of the Israeli military considering that the UN post was in plain site, with a bright blue roof and white signs everywhere saying "United Nations" in some 15 different scripts.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
If they are such a competent force, then they killed the peacekeepers on purpose, which throws into question the legitimacy of a country that kills so indiscriminantly.
On the contrary, Khameini CAN order Hizbollah to attack inside Israel. They've been planning this for years and they aren't being armed in conventional ways because the first thing Israel did was blow up the highways and blockade the seaports into and around Lebanon and Syria it had been closely monitoring. Hizbollah STILL fired unmanned drones and rockets into Israel, showing more sophistication than anyone imagined.
Hizbollah can only be defeated by popular apathy, otherwise secular citizens are aligning with extremists against the west and this is entirely due to this ridiculous Cowboy diplomacy you consistently defend; we're witnessing this in Iraq right now.
I'm just trying to understand this silly neoconservative logic you keep insisting on. Israel is attacked, it retaliates by destroying entire towns and angering innocent civilians. How is this progress?
I'm confused, I don't know how I could completely disagree with your first post and then completely agree with this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
As much as I think that Israel has a right to defend herself, Israel is the only fully developed nation in the Middle East and should act like it. We cannot lower ourselves to the mindless killing of terrorists in Hamas and Hizbollah because we, meaning the developed world, will ALWAYS come out looking worse. We have better weapons and a smarter and more competent military...thus we are able to do what the terrorists do i a much larger, more efficient way.
Can't we all just get along?
You hit the nail on the head. Arabs (especially the Palestinians) indoctrinate their children to hate the Jews from early childhood. I've seen a video footage of 5 year old Palestinian boys pretending to behead each other. I also saw a short clip of an Arab cartoon geared toward youngsters that spouted nothing but hatred for Jews.Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousK
It's fucking sad, these people hate the Jews because they are taught to nowdays.
Irony is the fact that I stated there are other reasons to this and you seem to have ignored this for your own inconvienence.Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hibikster-
Or they got rocketed by them accidentally. Or their son got shot by a sniper while trying to rush him across a street.... Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ki_atsushi
It's definitely the racist cartoons...why are the palestinians such nazis? :eye: :eye:
I find it often interesting how people believe military strikes can be done in such a way that there are no civilian casualties.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
It's not possible to begin with.
When you are attempting to fight a group that purposely uses civilian populations as cover, there will be civilian casualties. There's nothing to debate about this particular point.
As far as the definition of terrorism goes...
It's not so clear cut as you would like to make it out to be...
Yes governments are guilty of "terroristic" actions whether it be the US, Israel, Britain, China, Soviet Russia, etc. etc. But they do and did not exist for the sole purpose of using force or fear. They employed those tactics in some instances...but groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the IRA, Black September, and so forth existed for that sole purpose. Create fear through the use of deadly force or the threat of force. To call what Israel is currently doing "terrorism" is insanity. You can't suddenly put them on the same level as Hezbollah. Not admitting Israel actions are terrorism then means you have to concede that Al Qaeda are peace loving hippies? You're not dumb so don't say dumb things like that.
Generally speaking though it's a bad idea to negotiate with terrorists. In doing that it gives them legitimacy that they should not have. Israel was not going to negotiate on this. Anyone who thought they were was sadly mistaken or lives in a theoretical world.
Yes there is a WHY.Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
Do you simply think things just happened suddenly be this way?
You need to look back in order to see the why.
Simple as that.
I remember hearing on the radio from one Isreali Minister that they've been wanting to disable Hezbolah for a long time now and this just provided them with the means to do so.
That's why they don't want a ceasefire, they want to keep destroying everything of Hezbolah that they can which is a lot more than a "terrorist" organization like Al Quedea, it's more like a Para Military Group. It is well armed, well organized, and unlike other "terrorist" groups, it's largely identifiable.
If what Wasabi said is true and Iran has been using Hezbolah as a proxy to strike against isreal (which would make sense since Syria and Iran are the ones who armed Hezbolah with Rockets, munitions, etc) then this makes even more sense.
I don't believe Isreal is specifically targeting civilians but I don't think they care very much for the civilian deaths since in their eyes those people are "complacent" in letting Hezbolah act among them.
I don't thinkt hat view is correct let alone moral justification for ignoring civilian casualties.
Oh and the fact that Hezbolah claims that only 20 of its members has been killed out of the 300 or 400 casualties is laughably rediculous.
The worst part is that Isreal is just creating more popular support for an armed Hezbolah, but at the same time they're pretty much destroying the whole organization so I'm guessing they don't care much.
I still think the rest of the world should step in and disarm both sides.
Reading it over again, if what Wasabi says is true (that Hezbolah represents a large portion of Irans military strength to hold over Isreal and the US in Iraq) then that completely makes sense why the US doesn't support a ceasefire.
Cripple Iran by taking down a known "terrorist" organization in Lebenon? And have the kidnappings be a semi-justification? I can just see the Bush admin sitting there going "YES PLEASE". Hell I see all of Europe sitting there going "YES PLEASE". Everyone wants to see Iran weakened given what they've done so far with Nuclear technology.
Makes a lot more sense, that is assuming that Hezbolah does represent a significant portion of Irans strength/influence in the Middle East. Though if it does, why is all of it located/concentrated in southern Lebenon?
Your retarded attempt at sarcasm makes it sound as if the Palestinians are the innocent ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp0o/\/?!
If this is what you are getting at, you are dense.
P.S. - I know that's what you're getting at.