Are CRT HDTV's any good?

I've found this CRT tv that is 32 inch for the same price as a 26 inch LCD tv. I'm after a tv for my X360 (if you are going to say don't buy one then just fuck off now).

http://www.digiuk.com/productdetail.asp?id=5172

Any known problems with HD CRT? I've heard of dead pixels with LCD's, burn ins with Plasma so why the hell aren't people buying HD CRT's? What's so bad about them? (This thing is almost as narrow as a flat screen tv)

I know it only accepts 1080i, but I've read the X360 can upscale 720p to 1080i no problem - will my games still look class?

The screen size is limited, and they're big and heavy. Other than that, they're pretty much the standard that other display technologies are trying to catch up to - at least in picture quality.

No dead pixels (VERY unlikely), and no burn-in without really severe abuse.

For motion-intensive graphics/movies, 720p > 1080i.

oh god, you just started a fucking war.......

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Originally Posted by madmanjock

I've found this CRT tv that is 32 inch for the same price as a 26 inch LCD tv. I'm after a tv for my X360 (if you are going to say don't buy one then just fuck off now).

http://www.digiuk.com/productdetail.asp?id=5172

Any known problems with HD CRT? I've heard of dead pixels with LCD's, burn ins with Plasma so why the hell aren't people buying HD CRT's? What's so bad about them? (This thing is almost as narrow as a flat screen tv)

I know it only accepts 1080i, but I've read the X360 can upscale 720p to 1080i no problem - will my games still look class?

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This will work fine. Don't worry about the upconversion either, these TV's are designed with upconversion in mind.

As long as space isn't a premium, I probably would buy something like this over a small LCD.

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Originally Posted by madmanjock

Any known problems with HD CRT? I've heard of dead pixels with LCD's, burn ins with Plasma so why the hell aren't people buying HD CRT's?

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Screen size, resolution, cabinet size, power requirements...it's a long list. The largest CRT TVs ever built were a 40" 4:3 set (Sony and Mitsubishi) and a 38" 16:9 set (RCA). No matter what technological innovations manufacturers come up with, building CRTs in large screen sizes is expensive and difficult. Since the trend in consumer displays is going larger, tubes don't cut it any more. Large CRTs also use huge amounts of electricity.

As you noted, CRTs usually max out at 1080i instead of 720p. That's because it's difficult to mass produce large tubes that support high progressive resolutions and keep the costs down. 720p requires more bandwidth than 1080i (which is the equivalent of 540p in terms of bandwidth), so it requires tighter tolerances and more expensive internal components. Look at what a high-quality 20" CRT computer monitor costs versus your run-of-the-mill 20" TV. There are a few high-end CRT TVs that support 720p natively, but the ones I've seen have been outrageously expensive.

That said, many still regard CRTs as the best in terms of overall picture quality, so I'm sure games at 1080i will look outstanding on that TV. If the size is right for you, I'm sure it's a good choice.

For some reason there’s this great misconception that CRT’s are the bottom of the barrel. I think this has quite a bit to do with what the retailers are pushing. Inch for inch LCD and plasma flat panels and LCD and DLP rear projection sets are more $$, thus they make more money from selling them. The only exception to this is front projectors, the few CRT’s that are left on the market are BIG bucks….and worth every penny.

Any industry expert will tell you that CRT is still the best when it comes to PQ, this was stated many times when I took my ISF cert classes.

In short, galfordo is dead on, if cabinet size and weight aren’t a factor, go with CRT.

I had to install one of those 4:3 Sony XBR 40” tubes once…and elevated above a fireplace. What a nightmare! It took three guys to lift in into place. I had to let go and hook up all the connections while the other 2 held it in place. It fit into the custom cabinet with 1” on all sides…

What a bitch that thing was.

Thanks for the input from everyone. This thread has removed any doubt I had. I'd rather have a large CRT than a small LCD, plus any refresh rate and PQ issues have me convinced CRT is the way for me.

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Originally Posted by smokehouse

For some reason there’s this great misconception that CRT’s are the bottom of the barrel. I think this has quite a bit to do with what the retailers are pushing. Inch for inch LCD and plasma flat panels and LCD and DLP rear projection sets are more $$, thus they make more money from selling them. The only exception to this is front projectors, the few CRT’s that are left on the market are BIG bucks….and worth every penny.

Any industry expert will tell you that CRT is still the best when it comes to PQ, this was stated many times when I took my ISF cert classes.

In short, galfordo is dead on, if cabinet size and weight aren’t a factor, go with CRT.

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Not necessarily. Some plasmas and DLP's are exceptionally beautiful when it comes to picture quality, much more so than any CRT. Also, many CRT big screens are cheap now, but they cut back on some of the resolutions they can output, so you definitely get a limited product. You are right that at the smaller sizes CRT will probably put out the best picture, though.

In particular, plasmas can do really good colors as opposed to all other technologies. They are also way more durable than most people think. I usually recommend plasma TV's for people who are buying a big screen because it is the most flexible technology with arguably the best picture quality.

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Originally Posted by IMTheWalrus

Not necessarily. Some plasmas and DLP's are exceptionally beautiful when it comes to picture quality, much more so than any CRT. Also, many CRT big screens are cheap now, but they cut back on some of the resolutions they can output, so you definitely get a limited product. You are right that at the smaller sizes CRT will probably put out the best picture, though.

In particular, plasmas can do really good colors as opposed to all other technologies. They are also way more durable than most people think. I usually recommend plasma TV's for people who are buying a big screen because it is the most flexible technology with arguably the best picture quality.

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You know, I’m not going to cast stones because when it comes to video, it is all up to personal opinion. The colors on plasma sets are amazing but it’s the lack of solid contrast and black levels that really sucks. Each new generation of plasma improves little by little but the IRE scale is still shit on all but the most expensive of sets. As a matter of fact, they calibrate rather poorly when it comes to getting as close to 6500K as possible across the scale. I’ve yet to see any plasma with the black levels of a CRT. Then again I don’t often calibrate $20,000 sets so possibly I just haven’t found one yet.

With CRT you can get bang for the buck, with plasma that does not exist. I have seen some plasma sets in the $12,000-$18,000 range that are great but for $3500, you’re pretty much going to get a centerpiece with a mediocre picture. One thing though, at least they don’t suffer from motion breakup like LCD…

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Originally Posted by smokehouse

Any industry expert will tell you that CRT is still the best when it comes to PQ, this was stated many times when I took my ISF cert classes.

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There are many different criteria used to measure picture quality, and the only one that CRT still wins hands-down is on/off contrast.

That said, if I were in the market for a TV 34" or smaller, I'd probably get a widescreen CRT.

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Originally Posted by smokehouse

I have seen some plasma sets in the $12,000-$18,000 range that are great but for $3500, you’re pretty much going to get a centerpiece with a mediocre picture.

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I'd take a properly calibrated 50" Panasonic 50PHD8UK over the aforementioned 34" CRT any day. They're hardly mediocre.

Hard to beat a nice flat tube and like was stated above, they are still expensive for a reason.

I myself own a 34" Widescreen HD tube and compared to my brother's Rear-LCD, the differences are minimal at best.

While LCD and plasma offer wonderful picture quality, they don't offer the durability of a tube, especially for games.

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Originally Posted by Argentina94

While LCD and plasma offer wonderful picture quality, they don't offer the durability of a tube, especially for games.

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LCDs don't suffer from burn-in. As long as the rise/fall time is decent, they're a good option.

Current plasmas have phosphors with the same lifespan as CRTs--meaning they're no more likely to have burn-in than a tube would.

One of CRTs biggest flaws is it’s lack of brightness. Even the most expensive front CRT projectors are dim as hell. They demand a good screen and a dark room.

Don’t get me wrong fellas, the new technologies are catching up to CRT and soon they will surpass their performance. I know it will happen. When it does I will be there waiting, credit card in hand. I’m not one of those Z/V guys that refuse to accept new technologies, I just don’t quite think it’s there yet.

Although that 3 chip Runco VX-2c DLP I saw was pretty amazing…..and $40K

I like my lcd all the same:


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809903/enter.jpg

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Originally Posted by thirdkind

I'd take a properly calibrated 50" Panasonic 50PHD8UK over the aforementioned 34" CRT any day. They're hardly mediocre.

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Like I stated above, it’s all personal opinions. My definition of mediocre is MUCH different than many others. I’ve been doing home theater for quite some time now and seen (and heard) some pretty amazing things, I’m getting hard to impress (although it does happen from time to time, I demoed some Wilson MAXX speakers that almost made me cry. They were running on some Halcro monoblocks and fed from an amazing, hand built turntable….stunning). The best PQ I’ve ever seen on an affordable TV (less than $5000) comes from CRT. The 40” Sony XBR mentioned earlier is absolutely stunning once calibrated. As a matter of fact, it’s quite possibly on of the best direct view displays I’ve ever seen. It also weighs as much as a car is way too expensive.

Back to reality. Some of the last generation of Mitsubishi Diamond, Hitachi SWX/XWX and Toshiba Cinema series CRT RPTV sets were some of the best I’ve seen when it comes to anything made for under $5K. Unfortunately they have started to slip in quality and PQ lately and aren’t as good as the used to be.

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Originally Posted by smokehouse

Like I stated above, it’s all personal opinions. My definition of mediocre is MUCH different than many others. I’ve been doing home theater for quite some time now and seen (and heard) some pretty amazing things, I’m getting hard to impress (although it does happen from time to time, I demoed some Wilson MAXX speakers that almost made me cry. They were running on some Halcro monoblocks and fed from an amazing, hand built turntable….stunning). The best PQ I’ve ever seen on an affordable TV (less than $5000) comes from CRT. The 40” Sony XBR mentioned earlier is absolutely stunning once calibrated. As a matter of fact, it’s quite possibly on of the best direct view displays I’ve ever seen. It also weighs as much as a car is way too expensive.

Back to reality. Some of the last generation of Mitsubishi Diamond, Hitachi SWX/XWX and Toshiba Cinema series CRT RPTV sets were some of the best I’ve seen when it comes to anything made for under $5K. Unfortunately they have started to slip in quality and PQ lately and aren’t as good as the used to be.

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Price is always an issue and yes I agree, I don't justify the cost difference either.

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Originally Posted by smokehouse

The best PQ I’ve ever seen on an affordable TV (less than $5000) comes from CRT. The 40” Sony XBR mentioned earlier is absolutely stunning once calibrated. As a matter of fact, it’s quite possibly on of the best direct view displays I’ve ever seen. It also weighs as much as a car is way too expensive.

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Agreed. It's a beautiful monster. Too bad it's like parking a Volkswagen in your living room.

I've been going back and forth with my home theater over the last couple years, and have owned a JVC SX21, Sharp 10K, Sharp 12K, and an Optoma H79. I've also tested a few Sim2's. They're all nice, but not quite there yet. I cashed out and decided to wait until front projection in the $10K range catches up with my expectations.

The Sony Ruby looks very promising. I think I'll be ready to try home theater again in a year or two once 1080p LCOS/SXRD has a true native contrast ratio of at least 5000:1 without dynamic iris trickery. I'll give DLP another shot, but only a 3-chip model (I see rainbows on 1-chippers), and only 1080p. 720p projectors need to die, seriously. Way too little resolution for such large screens.

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Originally Posted by thirdkind

I'd take a properly calibrated 50" Panasonic 50PHD8UK over the aforementioned 34" CRT any day. They're hardly mediocre.

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Damn right man. That TV beats any plasma I have ever seen by a whole lot. They just do everything right.

I use to be the type that only wanted a crt direct display tv(consumer level crt projection tvs are the worst of all tvs) dlp has changed my feelings on that. A 36” sony xbr wega was my last tv.
The only thing I miss is the really black blacks.
But dlps are getting way better and are still better than every other type of display technology.
I can see the rainbows if I shake my head but it is not a big thing at all.
I see the flaws of every type of display. But over all for the price and size my vote goes to dlp for now.


the two things I hate the most about a crt.
1. doming
2. convergence

good read gets deep.
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/crtfaq.htm

(section about doming)

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"The problem with my TV is that bright parts of the picture change color. For example, white areas may shift towards yellow or blue depending on the orientation of the set.
What are the possible causes of doming? I have noticed that the magnitude of the doming effect varies with TV orientation even after degaussing several times at the new orientation. Does this help identify the cause of the doming in my case?"

The problem with regular shadow masks is 'doming'. Due to the inherent principle of shadow masks, 2/3 or more of all beam energy is dissipated in the mask. Where static bright objects are displayed, it heats up several hundred degrees. This causes thermal expansion, with local warping of the mask. The holes in the mask move to a different place and the projections of the electron beams will land on the wrong colours: purity errors. The use of invar allows about 3 times more beam current for the same purity errors.

Both local doming and magnetic fields compete for the remaining landing reserve. Due to improper degaussing, the doming problem may be more visible. And applying a tube designed for the wrong hemisphere may very well increase the doming complaints. It is possible to deliberately offset the nominal landing in order to get more doming reserve (the shift due to doming is always to the outside of the tube). You would do this using spoiler magnets put in the right places.

Permanently setting the contrast lower is not a real cure because the customer might not like such a dark picture. A better picture tube (Invar shadow mask) *is* a good cure (in most cases) but there is the cost price increase. (This is mainly due to the fact that Invar metal is harder to etch.)

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(section about convergence)

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Purity involves bending all 3 of the beams so that they cross the space between shadow mask and screen at the proper angle and will land at a different place on the phosphors. Convergence involves adjusting the aim of 1 or 2 of the beams at a different angle so that they all land at the same place on the screen.

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Originally Posted by acem77

But dlps are getting way better and are still better than every other type of display technology.

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Silly man.

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Originally Posted by madmanjock

I've found this CRT tv that is 32 inch for the same price as a 26 inch LCD tv. I'm after a tv for my X360 (if you are going to say don't buy one then just fuck off now).

http://www.digiuk.com/productdetail.asp?id=5172

Any known problems with HD CRT? I've heard of dead pixels with LCD's, burn ins with Plasma so why the hell aren't people buying HD CRT's? What's so bad about them? (This thing is almost as narrow as a flat screen tv)

I know it only accepts 1080i, but I've read the X360 can upscale 720p to 1080i no problem - will my games still look class?

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Don't get the slimfit ones, I've heard there are a lot of geometric problems with em. I have a 26" Samsung DynaFlat HDTV TX2678 and it rules.

CRTs rock, Glossy LCDs are okay, and Plasmas suck.

I personally would rather a CRT for gaming, I don't really care for the best technology when it comes to TV's, aslong as the games look good and the games play well i'm happy :)

Let me tell you, I will not miss doing convergnce. I have to calibrate my Hitachi once every 3 weeks or it’s red shadows all around. That will be something I will rejoice about when it’s gone.

I too will land up going front projection but it will be a while. I’ve yet to see any affordable DLP or LCD that has wowed me. Like you said thirdkind, once the contrast ratio improves and not through the iris trick stuff (like the Sony VPL HS51) I will gladly go front projection. My 51” is starting to look smaller by the day.

Basically the best picture is still CRT. Plasma & LCD can look great, but the technology is overpriced and not up to the level it should be yet.

IMO of cource.

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Originally Posted by ResOGlas

CRTs rock, Glossy LCDs are okay, and Plasmas suck.

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Too much time spent looking at shitty, uncalibrated TVs on the shelf in electronics stores. Not enough actual experience with properly setup equipment.

I noticed a consistent problem with CRTs would be the geometery... if that's the correct term for it. You know, when the screen either warps on the sides or gets cut off, etc.

For a while, I was interested in getting a CRT... but the only ones I liked were Sony CRTs. And those units treated me very badly due to poor quality (great looking images, but kept getting bad units with problems). I ended up getting a Sharp Aquos 26" for a pretty decent price (a shade over $1000), and it has been good to me ever since. I have 1 dead pixel, but it is unnoticable unless I have a black screen and I'm less than 3 feet away from the screen. The colors and definition are great and the refresh rate is very good.

I tried several LCD screens with an XBox, and none of them compared in terms of refresh rate. I remember testing a Sony LCD that was top-of-the-line (about $1800), and playing Street Fighter Anniversary Collection's Hyper SF. Picture literally tore the characters in half due to the horrible refresh rate. Did 3D fighters okay, but I can imagine this TV being worthless for 2D.

On my Sharp Aquos, there are no problems at all with SFAC (both 3S and Hyper), runs GGXX very nicely on PS2 with progressive, and is just a tad slower with fps with CvS2 for XBox for some strange reason (no tearing, though).

It's surprising... I thought I would be CRT 4 life, but in the end I'm praising an LCD screen that I never thought I would get. If you are looking for LCD, I highly recommend Sharp. They make quality LCDs, and from what I heard, they are one of the companies that have been doing LCD screens for the longest time. Hell, they made the DS and the PSP screens, from what people have said here in the past.

The Panasonic "Tau" line of CRT's is the BEST TV you can buy right now.

Panasonic > ALL by FAR!

I have the same TV as Argentina94, and we know what we are talking about.

I could have had any TV, but the CRT is just, awesome...

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Originally Posted by Kunai

I noticed a consistent problem with CRTs would be the geometery... if that's the correct term for it. You know, when the screen either warps on the sides or gets cut off, etc.

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That's the nice thing about LCDs and plasmas. Perfect geometry.

CRT geometry can be tweaked via service menu settings, but getting it perfect is usually impossible.

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Originally Posted by TonK

The Panasonic "Tau" line of CRT's is the BEST TV you can buy right now.

Panasonic > ALL by FAR!

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The Tau series is nice. The prices are decent and the quality is excellent.

If I had to pick the ultimate consumer CRT, it would be the Sony 34XBR960. It's a broadcast-quality monitor at a consumer price.

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Originally Posted by thirdkind

That's the nice thing about LCDs and plasmas. Perfect geometry.

CRT geometry can be tweaked via service menu settings, but getting it perfect is usually impossible.



The Tau series is nice. The prices are decent and the quality is excellent.

If I had to pick the ultimate consumer CRT, it would be the Sony 34XBR960. It's a broadcast-quality monitor at a consumer price.

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Pics of said broadcast quality CRT?

Xbox360 :drool_2:

That tv is pretty nice madman, you proberly won't have any issues with that at all, plus the HDTV ready feature is a huge bonus and of course ready for the xbox 360 in 16 days :buttrock:

Do HD Crt's have HDMI?

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Originally Posted by madmanjock

I've found this CRT tv that is 32 inch for the same price as a 26 inch LCD tv. I'm after a tv for my X360 (if you are going to say don't buy one then just fuck off now).

http://www.digiuk.com/productdetail.asp?id=5172

Any known problems with HD CRT? I've heard of dead pixels with LCD's, burn ins with Plasma so why the hell aren't people buying HD CRT's? What's so bad about them? (This thing is almost as narrow as a flat screen tv)

I know it only accepts 1080i, but I've read the X360 can upscale 720p to 1080i no problem - will my games still look class?

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I'm not a TV person, but if you want a TV to support the new HD-DVD/Blu-Ray standards coming up, you may want to ensure that particular TV offers support for the HDMI connections pretty much required by these new standards.

If all you're buying for is 360, then component/whatever would be a fine connection. If you're buying with all things HD, then look into HDMI support before buying.

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Originally Posted by slerch666

I'm not a TV person, but if you want a TV to support the new HD-DVD/Blu-Ray standards coming up, you may want to ensure that particular TV offers support for the HDMI connections pretty much required by these new standards.

If all you're buying for is 360, then component/whatever would be a fine connection. If you're buying with all things HD, then look into HDMI support before buying.

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It's just for games so I'll be fine. I'm not bothered in the slightest towards Blu-Ray or HD-DVD right now.

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Originally Posted by madmanjock

It's just for games so I'll be fine. I'm not bothered in the slightest towards Blu-Ray or HD-DVD right now.

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You might see things another way when PS3 comes out & already your TV is out of date.

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Originally Posted by RGP

Do HD Crt's have HDMI?

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Yes, I have a Sony 34XS955 and it has one HDMI, the TV TonK mentioned has 2 of them. I would have bought the Panasonic if only it had a built in HD tuner.

I take that back, I would have bought the 34" JVC I'art tube if I could have found it, it has higher resoultion than the super fine pitch sonys.

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Originally Posted by Spike

Yes, I have a Sony 34XS955 and it has one HDMI, the TV TonK mentioned has 2 of them. I would have bought the Panasonic if only it had a built in HD tuner.

I take that back, I would have bought the 34" JVC I'art tube if I could have found it, it has higher resoultion than the super fine pitch sonys.

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HD CRT is not so widespread here so not many will have it, HDTV in the UK will be maily on LCD sets, Sky are saying that only the first SKY set-top boxes will have component & HDMI & shorty afterwards only have HDMI.

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Originally Posted by RGP

HD CRT is not so widespread here so not many will have it, HDTV in the UK will be maily on LCD sets, Sky are saying that only the first SKY set-top boxes will have component & HDMI & shorty afterwards only have HDMI.

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My mistake, I forgot you were in the UK...you might be S.O.L.

I love my Sony Wega Hi-Scan 34" HDTV.

Built-in tuner so I can pull in HDTV off the air for free, silent flyback transformer operation, and a killer audio/subwoofer built-in. So who cares if its 190 pounds, I never move it out of the corner from where it lives. Watching everything from football games to DVD's friggin :buttrock: .

Direct view high-resolution whorage :buttrock:

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Originally Posted by Electroman

I love my Sony Wega Hi-Scan 34" HDTV.

Direct view high-resolution whorage :buttrock:

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Remember everything like that costs a fortune here :emb: I always had Sony up untill this time when I went for JVC, still very happy with it though, JVC are more or less Panasonic anyway.

http://www.jvc.co.uk/product.php?id=...id=100088&lid=

& the new Sony LCD's use Samsung pannels anyway.

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Originally Posted by TonK

Pics of said broadcast quality CRT?

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Sony Style.

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Originally Posted by thirdkind

Sony Style.

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I think he meant the broadcast TV, not the xbr.

I want to see the broadcast one myself.

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Originally Posted by Spike

I think he meant the broadcast TV, not the xbr.

I want to see the broadcast one myself.

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I described the XBR as "broadcast-quality", which is what Tonk asked for. Never said anything about a broadcast CRT. They cost as much as a Mercedes.

When it comes to having a HDMI input, note that DVI with HDCP will also work. I’d like to replace my 32” Sony KV32FS320 with a nice smaller LCD but one that matches the size of my 32” 4:3 would be costly. The other problem is that our living room set is only used for standard definition TV, no HD (free cable…wink, wink). I really don’t want a 16:9 set as it will only stretch the picture or give me those annoying vertical bars. It’s too bad an affordable 27”-32” 4:3 LCD doesn’t exist (at least I don’t think it does).

I know, I know, that sounds ridiculous but we use our home theater for HD media, not the living room. 90% of the TV we currently watch is in standard definition and a 16:9 would be annoying.

The way I see it is this.

-If you have the room and DO NOT PLAN ON MOVING once or twice a year:
Go with a CRT for now.

They are cheaper and have the best quality.

I don't see why you guys need a huge screen anyways. A Near Perfect small screen is a lot better than a shitty large screen

Once Plasma prices fall and they work the kinks out, Then GO for a Plasma or some shit like that.

No need to waste your money on overpriced, unrefined beta technology.

Huge ass Plasmas will be in the $500 range in a few years.

I can't get a CRT because I move too often and I don't want to lug one around.

Shit I move so much that I only Buy Wicker Furniture.
Easy to move.

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Originally Posted by norton9478

I don't see why you guys need a huge screen anyways. A Near Perfect small screen is a lot better than a shitty large screen.

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Thats true if you have a small room you are putting it in.

But it doesn't do much good to have a 27 inch tv if you set 20 feet back from the thing and can't see the screen or the on screen menu guide from your cable or sat provider.

I have a 50 inch LCD projection set in my living room and its too small for the room size. Plus I hate the geometry problems that some CRT sets have.

It’s true, you can have too little or too much screen for a given room size/seating distance. When it comes to having too much, you can have a large HD set than a SD set but there is such a thing as too much.

My 50” is great, I sit roughly 7’ from it and all the walls are a non-reflective grey. When it’s pitch black in the room, all you see is the screen (any my 6500k backlight). For now it’s plenty of screen. In my living room, out 32” is fine, anything larger would be too much.