If you live in Cali, vote NO on 74,75,and prop 76

well, the wonderful Arnold is trying to screw teachers. If you are a registered voter in california, and these pass....you will be screwing your children because schools will go to crap. You will most likely never have a teacher for your child that has more then 4-5 years experience. It's already hard enough to get people into teaching in california, and this will make anyone with a plan for their personal future to lean away from the education field because that option will most likely not be part of teaching. I know this sounds like someone blabbing about something they don't know much about...well, it is. I don't know all of the ins and outs of this, but I do know the basics and can tell you that these popositions will hurt the education of your children. Don't listen to all the bullshit Arnold is trying to pass, as it will take the power away from the people and give an incredible amount of power to the government. School budgets will be able to be cut 3 times a year without notice. Classrooms will get shorted on funding leaving less money for books and supplies, along with cutting any programs that are even left, like band or computers etc.. There are a ton of other crazy things hidden in this agenda and within these propositions. I promise you, that if these pass your children's schools will be hurting in more ways then one. Inexperienced teachers, little supplies, VERY few to no extra activities, field trip funding will be next to nothing....and much much more.

thanks for reading my little vent, but after listening to everything that will happen if these pass, it scared the crap out of me. I am planning on having kids in California someday and won't be able to afford private school....but unfortunetly, if this continues, that may be the only type of schools available in 5-10 years and the rich will get richer and the poor will get a worse education then ever.

Think about this....20 six year olds are already within a 1st grade classroom. Arnold thinks it will be better to cut classroom size reduction and bump that number to 30-32. Can you imagine a teacher having to manage a classroom of 32 six year olds? 3rd graders...sure! But Kinder or 1st grade? That is INSANE!!!

anyways...NO ON 74,75, an 76 and thanks if you got through my vent :)

I will try and take some pics or scans of some handouts I have and get them up here for some better detail.....

It might be helpful if you actually list the contents of the propositions, rather than ranting. People tend to dismiss opinions that are so obviously biased.

yeah, I am biased...true.

prop 74

The pro stuff says that the schools are getting 3 billion more dollars for spending, but leave out that there was 2 billion cut from the schools budget last year that was never returned. Also says that teachers will be on a probationary status for 5 years instead of 2, prior to getting to a status where they have any type of job security. Because of the governements ability to cut the budget 3 times per year, the schools will be forced to not take many teachers off of this probationary status. Why hire on someone for a long time when you could fire them and get a cheaper teacher? Well, experienced teachers = well educated children.

prop 75

The pro stuff says that it's giving a vote to the employee about what unions do with money that is for polotics, but then it doesn't mention that there would have to be union wide sign ins for anything that was spent on polotics...which takes forever and would slow down the unions ability to put out information on things in time for elections etc. It's not helping the people in the unions. It's actually slowing down the process of the people getting heard.

prop 76

"cut from a website"

In this measure we see the elementary argument about which path our society should take: the conservative direction that government should provide services only minimally, if at all; or the progressive direction, that our society understands the necessity of public funding of societal values, such as world-class public education.

A recent Field Poll (pdf) shows that Prop. 76 is generating an increasingly negative reaction from those likely to vote in November. Last June, 42% were inclined to vote No and 35% supported the measure. Now, the No proportion has soared to 65%, while the Yes vote has declined to 19%.

The amount of money being spent on this ballot measure would go a long way toward funding public education in California.

here's the group of companies supporting 76

Governor Schwarzenegger’s California Recovery Team (whose contributors include Albertson’s, Blue Cross of California, Cingular Wireless, Citigroup, Dreyer’s Grand Ice Cream, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, Outback Steakhouse, Sears , Roebuck & Company, Sun Microsystems, Toyota Motor Sales, Verizon, Walgreens, and Williams Sonoma) plus contributors like Apple Computer, ChevronTexaco, Citigroup, California Chamber of Commerce, Cendant Corporation, CH2MHill, Deloitte & Touche, Long’s Drugs, Safeway, WalMart Stores, etc.

here's a group going against it

* American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME)
* Association of California School Administrators (ACSA)
* California Correctional Peace Officers Association (CCPOA)
* California Faculty Association (CFA)
* California Federation of Teachers (CFT)
* California Labor Federation
* California Professional Firefighters (CPF)
* California School Employees Association (CSEA)
* California Teachers Association (CTA)
* Peace Officers Research Association of California (PORAC)
* Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
* SEIU Local 1000
* Minorities in Law Enforcement


Who's side would you rather be on? I chose police officers and teachers.


like I said, I don't know all of the ins and outs....but I do know that YOUR CHILDREN WILL SUFFER IN THE LONG RUN if these 3 propositions pass. You can trust me on that one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NGT

yeah, I am biased...true.

prop 74

The pro stuff says that the schools are getting 3 billion more dollars for spending, but leave out that there was 2 billion cut from the schools budget last year that was never returned. Also says that teachers will be on a probationary status for 5 years instead of 2, prior to getting to a status where they have any type of job security. Because of the governements ability to cut the budget 3 times per year, the schools will be forced to not take many teachers off of this probationary status. Why hire on someone for a long time when you could fire them and get a cheaper teacher? Well, experienced teachers = well educated children.

prop 75

The pro stuff says that it's giving a vote to the employee about what unions do with money that is for polotics, but then it doesn't mention that there would have to be union wide sign ins for anything that was spent on polotics...which takes forever and would slow down the unions ability to put out information on things in time for elections etc. It's not helping the people in the unions. It's actually slowing down the process of the people getting heard.

prop 76

"cut from a website"

In this measure we see the elementary argument about which path our society should take: the conservative direction that government should provide services only minimally, if at all; or the progressive direction, that our society understands the necessity of public funding of societal values, such as world-class public education.

A recent Field Poll (pdf) shows that Prop. 76 is generating an increasingly negative reaction from those likely to vote in November. Last June, 42% were inclined to vote No and 35% supported the measure. Now, the No proportion has soared to 65%, while the Yes vote has declined to 19%.

The amount of money being spent on this ballot measure would go a long way toward funding public education in California.

here's the group of companies supporting 76

Governor Schwarzenegger’s California Recovery Team (whose contributors include Albertson’s, Blue Cross of California, Cingular Wireless, Citigroup, Dreyer’s Grand Ice Cream, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, Outback Steakhouse, Sears , Roebuck & Company, Sun Microsystems, Toyota Motor Sales, Verizon, Walgreens, and Williams Sonoma) plus contributors like Apple Computer, ChevronTexaco, Citigroup, California Chamber of Commerce, Cendant Corporation, CH2MHill, Deloitte & Touche, Long’s Drugs, Safeway, WalMart Stores, etc.

here's a group going against it

* American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME)
* Association of California School Administrators (ACSA)
* California Correctional Peace Officers Association (CCPOA)
* California Faculty Association (CFA)
* California Federation of Teachers (CFT)
* California Labor Federation
* California Professional Firefighters (CPF)
* California School Employees Association (CSEA)
* California Teachers Association (CTA)
* Peace Officers Research Association of California (PORAC)
* Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
* SEIU Local 1000
* Minorities in Law Enforcement


Who's side would you rather be on? I chose police officers and teachers.


like I said, I don't know all of the ins and outs....but I do know that YOUR CHILDREN WILL SUFFER IN THE LONG RUN if these 3 propositions pass. You can trust me on that one.

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WOW

You just bought the Teachers Union spiel hook line and sinker, or you're in the Teachers Union.

Any time the Teachers Union is threatened with a cut in political power or their outrageous demands are not catered to, it gets completely spun into "AN ATTACK ON OUR CHILDREN!!!one!!!11ONE"

Notice Prop 75. It requires a vote by union members on where they want their dues being donated to politically. This doesn't reduce time to donation AT ALL. Donations are planned months in advance of the actual giving of cash and a simple vote amongst members to approve where the funding goes will not slow down the process since it could be done months in advance of even where the planning starts now!

This does NOTHING to your kids and has everything to do with the teachers union being able to blanketly give to the Democratic Party.

And notice how your spiel on Prop 76 doesn't even mention what the proposition actually DOES, it's just commentary on "Right vs Left" and who supports what.

Here is what Prop 76 does, link.

It's basically allowing the CA Govenor to cap spending on schools and transportation to keep it in line with revenue growth as far as the state treasury goes.

WOW you mean you'd only get to increase funding based on how much money your state has? FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

This actually forces people to make a choice, increase education funding more while having to cut other areas of spending, or distribute the funds as they see fit. No more blanket increase spending.

We need more people to vote YES to this stuff and it needs to be done on a national level. Mainly to stop Bush and congress from pissing away our cash in a deficit that we can't afford.

Yeah, I must say that this doesn't seem quite as bad as I had anticipated. My general opinion is that teachers are paid far too little for the job that they do. But that will take an instituional change rather than minor propositions.

I think if we don't address the education issues soon we are going to have a shortage of qualified teachers. The state of Maryland had a program when I was entering college that they would give an annual $3K grant to students who would be education majors, but that was cut (all Hope scholarships for MD were cut) when we got our new asshole governor. These are the types of programs I think we should encourage more, but our priorities aren't straight.

Anyway, point is that I don't think these propositions will make much of a difference either way in the long run. There needs to be a major change.

Hurt the education of our children? Bullshit.

We've got more fucking education in this country than anywhere else in the world I bet.

I can't drive anywhere without passing at least a few universitites, community colleges or vo-techs.

One doesn't really learn jack shit in primary education anyways.

Here in OK, everyone with a degree moves out of state because we have more education than we could possibly use here.

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Originally Posted by Magnaflux

Hurt the education of our children? Bullshit.

We've got more fucking education in this country than anywhere else in the world I bet.

I can't drive anywhere without passing at least a few universitites, community colleges or vo-techs.

One doesn't really learn jack shit in primary education anyways.

Here in OK, everyone with a degree moves out of state because we have more education than we could possibly use here.

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I really don't know where to begin. So I'll just get the +1

Oh noes. Don't listen to Arnold. Listen to paid advertisements that go against what Arnold wants. :eek:

Both of these options suck. :envy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NGT

prop 74

The pro stuff says that the schools are getting 3 billion more dollars for spending, but leave out that there was 2 billion cut from the schools budget last year that was never returned.

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Oh dear... a $1 billion increase in spending when it's all said and done. Those fiends. :mad:

So far I haven't cared enough to look into everything that will be on the ballot. I vote absentee so I have plenty of time to read up on them. :loco:

I make a prediction right now... They will amend the constitution for him (Arnold) soon. I don't know how soon but it will happen.

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Originally Posted by NickD

I make a prediction right now... They will amend the constitution for him (Arnold) soon. I don't know how soon but it will happen.

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No immigrant presidents! :envy:

I probably would vote against a prop like this but Arnold fucked himself when he called unions special interest groups.

The fall of Arnold is in full swing :D

The honeymoon with Hollywood ended a while ago, now the Governator finds himself a red governor in a very blue state. His approval ratings are still falling, which was no big surprise. People have gotten over the novelty of having the Kindergarten Cop as governor.

The vast majority of city-voters are against him, so I predict a loss.

unions are bullshit. anywhere there is a union there is a workplace full of dumbucks that cant be fired. ive worked with a few and you are forced to join and give them money for god knows what. my brother was in one and like 4 months after he quit he got a bill from them for those four months he wasnt even with them because he didnt sign some paper saying he was leaving. lol the sucker paid it too, i would of shoved it up their ass.


im not political so i dunno if awnold is doing a good job or not. everything i hear is anti awnold but it all has to do with the teachers union bitching and moaning so who the hell knows. did he announce he would run again? thought that was supposed to be last week.

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

did he announce he would run again? thought that was supposed to be last week.

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He did and yes, he's running for re-election.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnaflux

Hurt the education of our children? Bullshit.

We've got more fucking education in this country than anywhere else in the world I bet.

I can't drive anywhere without passing at least a few universitites, community colleges or vo-techs.

One doesn't really learn jack shit in primary education anyways.

Here in OK, everyone with a degree moves out of state because we have more education than we could possibly use here.

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You are stupid....really. "One doesn't learn jack shit in primary education"????? In first grade, children learn how to read and write. How isn't that jack shit? They learn what numbers are over 30, how to blend letter sounds into words, adding, subtracting, reading graphs, measuring, and much much more. Step into a 1st grade classroom in September and then go back to that same class in June and then open your mouth on the subject.

For the people who vote yes for these, I seriously hope you know what you are going to do to your children. Nobody is going to go in education that is worth a dime. Why? because as soon as they start making enough money to get anywhere in this overpriced state, they will get fired in some form or another because of the budget cuts. It's not going to make teachers work harder, because they already do. If you don't think so, then you just don't know any better.

Who else puts in 10-12 hour days and takes work home at night and on the weekends? People actually think that when people get this magical "tenure" they are not able to be fired....well, you're wrong. The only differences is that negative evaluations or something really bad that is done, result in a hearing for the person to plead their case, rather then just getting fired. If these bills pass, there will be no hearings and teachers (GOOD TEACHERS) will get fired because they make too much money...when they are what's best for YOUR children.


Someone in this thread talked about responsibility, well, voting NO on all 3 of these propositions is the responsible thing to do. 1 billion for education sounds like so much damn money, but look at how many schools are in california that that money is going to. Look at how underpaid teachers are for doing the amount of work they do. Look at that compared to the cost of living in california and tell me why teachers rent apartments in my town while the trash men own a 4 bedroom home. Teachers and public education are taken for grantit and when all this goes down and years from now when public education is gone and rich kids are the only kids that get a good education....remember this thread when your son can't read at age 10.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NGT

You are stupid....really. "One doesn't learn jack shit in primary education"????? In first grade, children learn how to read and write. How isn't that jack shit? They learn what numbers are over 30, how to blend letter sounds into words, adding, subtracting, reading graphs, measuring, and much much more. Step into a 1st grade classroom in September and then go back to that same class in June and then open your mouth on the subject.

For the people who vote yes for these, I seriously hope you know what you are going to do to your children. Nobody is going to go in education that is worth a dime. Why? because as soon as they start making enough money to get anywhere in this overpriced state, they will get fired in some form or another because of the budget cuts. It's not going to make teachers work harder, because they already do. If you don't think so, then you just don't know any better.

Who else puts in 10-12 hour days and takes work home at night and on the weekends? People actually think that when people get this magical "tenure" they are not able to be fired....well, you're wrong. The only differences is that negative evaluations or something really bad that is done, result in a hearing for the person to plead their case, rather then just getting fired. If these bills pass, there will be no hearings and teachers (GOOD TEACHERS) will get fired because they make too much money...when they are what's best for YOUR children.


Someone in this thread talked about responsibility, well, voting NO on all 3 of these propositions is the responsible thing to do. 1 billion for education sounds like so much damn money, but look at how many schools are in california that that money is going to. Look at how underpaid teachers are for doing the amount of work they do. Look at that compared to the cost of living in california and tell me why teachers rent apartments in my town while the trash men own a 4 bedroom home. Teachers and public education are taken for grantit and when all this goes down and years from now when public education is gone and rich kids are the only kids that get a good education....remember this thread when your son can't read at age 10.

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http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpo...55&postcount=4

We keep throwing more and more money at public schools and it doesn't change a damned thing. The only thing that's changed is the amount of money being pissed away.

The problem is incompetence. Lawrence J. Peter, nuff said.

Like I said, education is a booming industry. There's a college/vo-tech/university on every street corner. Our problem isn't education.

100 years ago a child had to prove competence in say the 7th grade to be considered an 8th grader. Today that child doesn't have to have grades good enough, he is passed along to the next grade.

Kids don't need to be competent to graduate. Money can't possibly fix that. Unions can't fix that. Legislation can't fix that. Kids don't learn shit because it's not required to get promoted. I graduated high school with people who couldn't read!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NGT

well, the wonderful Arnold is trying to screw teachers. If you are a registered voter in california, and these pass....you will be screwing your children because schools will go to crap. You will most likely never have a teacher for your child that has more then 4-5 years experience. It's already hard enough to get people into teaching in california, and this will make anyone with a plan for their personal future to lean away from the education field because that option will most likely not be part of teaching. I know this sounds like someone blabbing about something they don't know much about...well, it is. I don't know all of the ins and outs of this, but I do know the basics and can tell you that these popositions will hurt the education of your children. Don't listen to all the bullshit Arnold is trying to pass, as it will take the power away from the people and give an incredible amount of power to the government. School budgets will be able to be cut 3 times a year without notice. Classrooms will get shorted on funding leaving less money for books and supplies, along with cutting any programs that are even left, like band or computers etc.. There are a ton of other crazy things hidden in this agenda and within these propositions. I promise you, that if these pass your children's schools will be hurting in more ways then one. Inexperienced teachers, little supplies, VERY few to no extra activities, field trip funding will be next to nothing....and much much more.

thanks for reading my little vent, but after listening to everything that will happen if these pass, it scared the crap out of me. I am planning on having kids in California someday and won't be able to afford private school....but unfortunetly, if this continues, that may be the only type of schools available in 5-10 years and the rich will get richer and the poor will get a worse education then ever.

Think about this....20 six year olds are already within a 1st grade classroom. Arnold thinks it will be better to cut classroom size reduction and bump that number to 30-32. Can you imagine a teacher having to manage a classroom of 32 six year olds? 3rd graders...sure! But Kinder or 1st grade? That is INSANE!!!

anyways...NO ON 74,75, an 76 and thanks if you got through my vent :)

I will try and take some pics or scans of some handouts I have and get them up here for some better detail.....

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32 kids in a 1st grade classroom. OH THE HORROR!

I had no less than 30 kids in all my classes well into highschool (depending on the class in HS).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnaflux

We keep throwing more and more money at public schools and it doesn't change a damned thing. The only thing that's changed is the amount of money being pissed away.

The problem is incompetence. Lawrence J. Peter, nuff said.

Like I said, education is a booming industry. There's a college/vo-tech/university on every street corner. Our problem isn't education.

100 years ago a child had to prove competence in say the 7th grade to be considered an 8th grader. Today that child doesn't have to have grades good enough, he is passed along to the next grade.

Kids don't need to be competent to graduate. Money can't possibly fix that. Unions can't fix that. Legislation can't fix that. Kids don't learn shit because it's not required to get promoted. I graduated high school with people who couldn't read!

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But I think that the real problem isn't so much that you need to pump more money into the system, but rather fund the schools that are ridiculously underfunded. In Maryland, for instance, Baltimore City Schools spend $1000 per student annually, but Montgomery County schools spend $8000 per student annually. Obviously the reason for this is property taxes being higher in Montgomery county due to higher property values. But my point is that we are supposed to have a system where everybody gets an opportunity for a fair education, and the city schools are so ridiculously underfunded that it's not the case.

I also think that we have a problem with how we spend money on public schools. No Child Left Behind turned out to be no more than a glorified testing program that only created more of these inequities between rich and poor schools. It seems we aren't spending money on increasing salaries for teachers to make them more qualified, providing grants for college educations for teachers, or simply spending money on more supplies like books, desks, etc.

Unfortunately, neither party addresses these issues. They both have half assed solutions that don't really work and are fueled by lobbyists. The federal government should literally dictate how partially federally funded schools spend their money.

The real problem Walrus is that the current system is set up to fail.

Throwing money into a system that doesnt work is a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Nesagwa

The real problem Walrus is that the current system is set up to fail.

Throwing money into a system that doesnt work is a waste of time.

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...T/NESpuppy.jpg

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Originally Posted by IMTheWalrus

But I think that the real problem isn't so much that you need to pump more money into the system, but rather fund the schools that are ridiculously underfunded. In Maryland, for instance, Baltimore City Schools spend $1000 per student annually, but Montgomery County schools spend $8000 per student annually. Obviously the reason for this is property taxes being higher in Montgomery county due to higher property values. But my point is that we are supposed to have a system where everybody gets an opportunity for a fair education, and the city schools are so ridiculously underfunded that it's not the case.

I also think that we have a problem with how we spend money on public schools. No Child Left Behind turned out to be no more than a glorified testing program that only created more of these inequities between rich and poor schools. It seems we aren't spending money on increasing salaries for teachers to make them more qualified, providing grants for college educations for teachers, or simply spending money on more supplies like books, desks, etc.

Unfortunately, neither party addresses these issues. They both have half assed solutions that don't really work and are fueled by lobbyists. The federal government should literally dictate how partially federally funded schools spend their money.

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Incompetence.

teachers work about 7 hours a day (including lunch) then get to go home and put smiley faces on homework. they also get every holiday, real or made up by the school system off, a free two week and one week vacation every year, and a 3 month vacation ever year.


oh...the...horror. :eek:


i would barely call what elementary teachers do...work. hell, i could prolly be one. now, if i was a high school teacher, i would prolly kill myself.

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Originally Posted by NGT

I know this sounds like someone blabbing about something they don't know much about...well, it is.

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Damn straight! :buttrock:

IF you had the slightest clue you'd already know that
the California school system has been in the shitter
for a long, long time. How do I know this? Well... let's
just say that my mother is a very highly respected
teacher in California and I had 18 years to hear
all about what a joke our local school system is. :chump:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OlderGames

Damn straight! :buttrock:

IF you had the slightest clue you'd already know that
the California school system has been in the shitter
for a long, long time. How do I know this? Well... let's
just say that my mother is a very highly respected
teacher in California and I had 18 years to hear
all about what a joke our local school system is. :chump:

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As someone whose been involved with the California public school system and private tutoring services (much less having worked with a number of public and private school teachers), I agree.

CA teachers have some of the most ridiculous job security. I think it's something like ~2 years and you're set for life. Gives the public school teachers a lot of incentive to continue doing a good job, eh?

It's not all to blame on the teachers, though. Getting rid of phonics was an even stupider idea than teaching intelligent design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ely13

I think it's something like ~2 years and you're set for life. Gives the public school teachers a lot of incentive to continue doing a good job, eh?

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what do they get after 2 years?

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

what do they get after 2 years?

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Guaranteed employment and a very nice salary with benefits, iirc. You basically do a few years, then you're set for life.

The whole problem with the CA school system goes back to the Tax Payers Revolution, a proposition that passed in CA back in 1980 that made property taxes in CA some of the lowest in the country. This cause the main source of funding for the public schools to go down with them. Even Duckman made fun of that back in the early 90s.

Thus, for the last 25 years CA has watched its underfunded schools die off.

But please, those of you out-of-state people who listen to Arnold, tell us the problem in our own state.

Even Warren Buffett, the man who Arnold first tapped to help his election campaign, pointed out that his luxury home on the beaches of Laguana Beach cost him less in taxes than his modest house in Omaha. He pointed at the 500 lb gorilla(s) in the room and Arnold had to distance himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ely13

Guaranteed employment and a very nice salary with benefits, iirc. You basically do a few years, then you're set for life.

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tenure isn't "set for life"....it's set until you screw up big time or get multiple negative evaluations. The only difference is, is that you get a hearing to defend yourself. You're not beyond getting canned for screwing up. You're not beyond someone making your job a living hell until you quit. You're not beyond someone thinking you're a bad teacher and giving you negative evaluations, which leads to you getting fired after the whole process. Also, teachers here don't get a VERY NICE SALARY. The get a low paying salary for what they do. 10-11 hour days, weekend work and grading papers into the night....and teachers only get paid for 10 months out of the year. Most choose to stretch that out over 12 months because they don't have to budget, but that's it. There's no paid summer vacations etc...that's all BS from people like this guy who don't know any better.


Also, with the cost of living around here being so high, new teachers can't even buy homes. It's apartments and interest only loans on condos etc...seriously, there's no giant paycheck and job for life waiting for you after a couple of years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NGT

tenure isn't "set for life"....it's set until you screw up big time or get multiple negative evaluations. The only difference is, is that you get a hearing to defend yourself. You're not beyond getting canned for screwing up. You're not beyond someone making your job a living hell until you quit. You're not beyond someone thinking you're a bad teacher and giving you negative evaluations, which leads to you getting fired after the whole process. Also, teachers here don't get a VERY NICE SALARY. The get a low paying salary for what they do. 10-11 hour days, weekend work and grading papers into the night....and teachers only get paid for 10 months out of the year. Most choose to stretch that out over 12 months because they don't have to budget, but that's it. There's no paid summer vacations etc...that's all BS from people like this guy who don't know any better.

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...T/NESpuppy.jpg

Gutted: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpo...55&postcount=4

dude they still make a decent salary WITHOUT HAVING TO WORK ALL THOSE MONTHS. a very livable salary.

and 10-11 hour days MY ASS. most teachers dont teach every period, and all are finished at 3pm or earlier. "grading papers" is usually done half assed if they dont have a teacher aid to do it. i can easily count the number of teachers ive EVER had on one hand that actually put effort into grading papers.


maybe a ten hour day once in a blue moon if they have essays to grade or something. if i was a teacher even the essays i assign would be on scantron.

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Originally Posted by Ely13

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...T/NESpuppy.jpg

Gutted: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpo...55&postcount=4

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There aren't any opinions in that post besides what people consider a low paying job.

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

dude they still make a decent salary WITHOUT HAVING TO WORK ALL THOSE MONTHS. a very livable salary.

and 10-11 hour days MY ASS. most teachers dont teach every period, and all are finished at 3pm or earlier. "grading papers" is usually done half assed if they dont have a teacher aid to do it. i can easily count the number of teachers ive EVER had on one hand that actually put effort into grading papers.


maybe a ten hour day once in a blue moon if they have essays to grade or something. if i was a teacher even the essays i assign would be on scantron.

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Not in Sonoma County it's not livable. Also, teachers here are at school from 7am to 5-6 at night easy....along with a half packed parking lot on saturdays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

dude they still make a decent salary WITHOUT HAVING TO WORK ALL THOSE MONTHS. a very livable salary.

and 10-11 hour days MY ASS. most teachers dont teach every period, and all are finished at 3pm or earlier. "grading papers" is usually done half assed if they dont have a teacher aid to do it. i can easily count the number of teachers ive EVER had on one hand that actually put effort into grading papers.


maybe a ten hour day once in a blue moon if they have essays to grade or something. if i was a teacher even the essays i assign would be on scantron.

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I believe NGT has convinced FeelGood :chump:

50-55 hour workweeks? Lmfao. That must be why I helped interview and train over a dozen public school teachers who would work 2-5 days a week from 3:30pm onwards at three private tutoring businesses. And no, they did not have a whole lot of work to bring home from their normal jobs.

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Originally Posted by NGT

Not in Sonoma County it's not livable. Also, teachers here are at school from 7am to 5-6 at night easy....along with a half packed parking lot on saturdays.

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dude you can live off minimum wage if ur working 55 hours a week, dont gimme that shit. teachers dont make minimum wage.

and they work like half the year. a lot of teachers i had growing up actually worked a different job during the summer (school affiliated or not) which easily boosted their annual salary to 50k+.

the noob teach makes 30k a year, for less than 9 months work. this number is boosted considerably the longer youre there.

i dunno what kind of school youre talking about but the only people at a school on saturdays are those involved with sports/clubs and those with saturday school. you wont find a teacher within a 10 mile radius unless hes watching saturday school. :lol:


teachers, like everyone else in the world, are fucking greedy and will say/do anything to protect whats theirs and get what they want. they have no problems using the children as leverage, so i say fuck em.

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Originally Posted by Magnaflux

Hurt the education of our children? Bullshit.

We've got more fucking education in this country than anywhere else in the world I bet.

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*cough, cough*

:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...sons/img/1.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...sons/img/2.jpg

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ic.html
Population: 296,737 (July 2005 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
Population: 295,734,134 (July 2005 est.)

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Originally Posted by Vlad

*cough, cough*

:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...sons/img/1.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...sons/img/2.jpg

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Yeah, a degree from Iceland U will get you a Hell of a job.

Ahahahaha.

I don't even know where to begin with Vlad's post.

Where are the highest proportion of top research Universities in the world? The United States.

What country produces the most medical literature in the world? The United States, by a longshot (US does about ~35-40%, next country is around ~10-12%)

If you want to practice international law, from the perspective of the corporate world, what countries fall under the 'you must have studied here' category? The United States and the United Kingdom.

http://channels.netscape.com/pf/pack...opuniversities

The World's Top 10 Universities

When it comes to ranking institutions of higher learning worldwide, American universities dominate.

That's the word from a new list of the world's most prestigious and famous universities created by The Times of London Higher Education Supplement, reports the AAP news service.

Led by Harvard University, fully seven of the top 10 schools are in the United States. Oxford and Cambridge are the only British universities to make the cut in the top 10, although two other schools--the London School of Economics and Imperial College came in at 11th and 14th respectively.

Why an international list? "Leading universities increasingly define themselves in terms of international competition," said John O'Leary, editor of The Times Higher Education Supplement. The Times Higher Education World University Rankings are based on the opinions of 1,300 academics in 88 countries, as well as the latest measures of research excellence and teaching.

The top 10 universities in the World University Rankings are:

1. Harvard University (United States)
2. University of California, Berkeley (United States)
3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (United States)
4. California Institute of Technology (United States)
5. Oxford University (United Kingdom)
6. Cambridge University (United Kingdom)
7. Stanford University (United States)
8. Yale University (United States)
9. Princeton University (United States)
10. ETH Zurich (Switzerland)

Of the top 200 universities, all are in 29 countries. Dominating the list are the United States with 62, the United Kingdom with 30, Germany with 17, and Australia with 14.

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Originally Posted by Ely13

I don't even know where to begin with Vlad's post.

Where are the highest proportion of top research Universities in the world? The United States.

What country produces the most medical literature in the world? The United States, by a longshot (US does about ~35-40%, next country is around ~10-12%)

If you want to practice international law, from the perspective of the corporate world, what countries fall under the 'you must have studied here' category? The United States and the United Kingdom.

http://channels.netscape.com/pf/pack...opuniversities

The World's Top 10 Universities

When it comes to ranking institutions of higher learning worldwide, American universities dominate.

That's the word from a new list of the world's most prestigious and famous universities created by The Times of London Higher Education Supplement, reports the AAP news service.

Led by Harvard University, fully seven of the top 10 schools are in the United States. Oxford and Cambridge are the only British universities to make the cut in the top 10, although two other schools--the London School of Economics and Imperial College came in at 11th and 14th respectively.

Why an international list? "Leading universities increasingly define themselves in terms of international competition," said John O'Leary, editor of The Times Higher Education Supplement. The Times Higher Education World University Rankings are based on the opinions of 1,300 academics in 88 countries, as well as the latest measures of research excellence and teaching.

The top 10 universities in the World University Rankings are:

1. Harvard University (United States)
2. University of California, Berkeley (United States)
3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (United States)
4. California Institute of Technology (United States)
5. Oxford University (United Kingdom)
6. Cambridge University (United Kingdom)
7. Stanford University (United States)
8. Yale University (United States)
9. Princeton University (United States)
10. ETH Zurich (Switzerland)

Of the top 200 universities, all are in 29 countries. Dominating the list are the United States with 62, the United Kingdom with 30, Germany with 17, and Australia with 14.

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He's European. Let him have his prestigious hot-ticket Iceland U degree in snowcone construction. Don't break his heart, it's weak. Weak like his graphs and pie charts.

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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

He's European. Let him have his prestigious hot-ticket Iceland U degree in snowcone construction. Don't break his heart, it's weak. Weak like his graphs and pie charts.

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That, and his Socialist utopia of 10%+ unemployment.

Germany is teetering on 15% employment and the United States under that horrible, terrible, awful Bush administration... is at 4.9% (http://stats.bls.gov/). Why is France's Nicolas Sarkozy growing more and more popular? Hmm :spock:

Talk to any executive of a large company, whether they were born in the States or not, and ask them what country is the higher education powerhouse of the world. Yes, America has a lot of amazingly stupid people, but the population is so large that you also have a proportionate amount of incredibly gifted folks. On top of that, America still remains the #1 destination for top talent from other countries. Want to know why those damn Chinese, Indian, and Russian international students are always breaking the curve? Because those countries are sending the very best they have.

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

dude you can live off minimum wage if ur working 55 hours a week, dont gimme that shit. teachers dont make minimum wage.

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You can live....with your family in a one bedroom apartment and an 85 Honda Civic. Teachers don't get paid by the hour and nobody working for min. wage is buying a house in my home town. I have lived around here since I was 5 and now 4 br 2 1/2 baths go for $600,000+. As for people telling me teachers don't work more then 7 hour days, well, here they sure as hell do. The contract hours are from 7:45 to 3:15, so there's 7 1/2 hours right there and that doesn't count tutoring 3 times a week, BTSA, Cadre work, parent meetings, planning, trainings, home visits, and just getting ready for the next day. There's no way any teacher on the staff here would ever stick to contract hours only. Why? Because they wouldn't be ready to teach and they care about their kid's (student's) education too much.

I have been around teachers my whole life, and have never met one that fits any of the molds that are being placed out there on this board. Everyone on my staff goes above and beyond their duties for their kids and spend so much money out of their own pockets on their classroom and students.

I still can't believe there are people out there that think this poorly of teachers. Teachers devote their lives to bettering the lives of other people's children. Yet people know someone who knows someone with a kid with a crappy teacher and all of a sudden 99% of the teachers out there don't care about anything but job security. It's disheartening, but everyone on my staff will still go in Monday morning with a smile on their face and work hearder then any computer tech or program designer has ever worked. I'd like to see anyone here stand in front of twenty 5 and 6 year olds and do the job we do with a dozen people looking over your shoulder ready to lay you off at the first parent complaint. It's an extremely stressful and demanding job, which 90% of the people ripping on it, wouldn't last a week actually doing it. Especially at my school with it's 93% ESL population of lowerclass minorities.

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Originally Posted by NGT

The contract hours are from 7:45 to 3:15, so there's 7 1/2 hours right there and that doesn't count tutoring 3 times a week, BTSA, Cadre work, parent meetings, planning, trainings, home visits, and just getting ready for the next day. There's no way any teacher on the staff here would ever stick to contract hours only. Why? Because they wouldn't be ready to teach and they care about their kid's (student's) education too much.

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welcome to the real world. everyone else is putting in 9 hour days and a good portion of which dont make as much as a teacher. maybe you live in the magical world of mother-teresa-shoulda-been-on-dawsons-creek teachers that are so oppressed the only joy in their life comes from the smile on some kid after he sees the a+ on his test that took 4 hours to grade.

ive had dozens and dozens of teachers growing up, and have seen prolly a hundred do their job. two of my teachers in elementary school were close friends of the family. out of the dozens, five or less have acted in the way you described.

one of my favorite teachers, though she was so god awful i couldnt believe she had a job, practically smoked her ciggies in the class. she was a nervous wreck and had zero controll of the students. everything was thrown, i got hit in the head with a stapler once. all she ever did was squeel out AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! THERE WILL BE NONE OF THAT! over and over again, then give us a movie to watch. her tests were hard as fuck though!

My mother and both my sisters are elementary school teachers, so I know quite a bit about it. How much you work as a teacher is dependent on how dedicated you are. You can easily get by on working just a bare-bones 40 hours a week if you want to (and shit loads do.) There are some teachers that do their lesson planning and correcting in half-assed ways while they're in the building. That's the way it is when you put people on salary. The amount my mother and sisters work is insane, but I think they're the exception and not the rule. I don't envy how much time they put in (and I work 50+ hours a week.) They work crazy amounts of hours every week... it's not like it starts when you enter the building and ends after the kids get on the buses. They treat it like their lives revolve around it. The only plus side is the fact that they get paid while they get that short summer break.

I guess it depends on your work ethic.

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Originally Posted by FeelGood

welcome to the real world. everyone else is putting in 9 hour days and a good portion of which dont make as much as a teacher. maybe you live in the magical world of mother-teresa-shoulda-been-on-dawsons-creek teachers that are so oppressed the only joy in their life comes from the smile on some kid after he sees the a+ on his test that took 4 hours to grade.

ive had dozens and dozens of teachers growing up, and have seen prolly a hundred do their job. two of my teachers in elementary school were close friends of the family. out of the dozens, five or less have acted in the way you described.

one of my favorite teachers, though she was so god awful i couldnt believe she had a job, practically smoked her ciggies in the class. she was a nervous wreck and had zero controll of the students. everything was thrown, i got hit in the head with a stapler once. all she ever did was squeel out AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! THERE WILL BE NONE OF THAT! over and over again, then give us a movie to watch. her tests were hard as fuck though!

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What other job do you get paid for working 7-8 hours and put 3-4 hours more in per day on your own time? I live in a world (work at a school) where the teachers care about the students because the majority of their families do not. Kids who's only pos. relationship in life comes from their teacher. I walk through the hallway and a dozen kids will run up to me and hug me. Not because they just like to hug people, but because they love me. Why? Because I am the only one in their lives that gives a damn about them. Maybe you can't understand devoting your life to anything but yourself, but that's your loss. I agree that every teacher doesn't care about their kids as much as the teachers do at my school, but these propositions will hurt the kids!

You know what this stuff will lead to? Prop 74,75, and 76.....No public schools. You think the education kids get on average in Cali is poor now, just wait 5-10 years. What sucks is, those will be my own children suffering. Big corperations owning private schools and making money off of the parents who now have to scape by to get their kids an average education. Instead of the money going to the schools, it will go to the schools and then some corperation that could care less about the kids,

I sit and talk with teachers every day and know that those at my school care about the kids in their classrooms. I know because if they didn't, they wouldn't do things like take homework to their house daily just so the kid doesn't throw it away on the bus. I've cried myself over situations and things I have had to do with kids, like filing CPS reports where kids go to homes because their folks beat them and shoot up heroin. Those toothless crack head ass parents that have the brilliant child who they care nothing about, and you keep them in cool school and tutoring just so they don't have to go home right away. Those kids love you, those kids will remember you their whole lives and those kids are the same kids you teach how to read and write. That's the kind of teacher you should think of when you vote NO on prop 74,75, and 76. For every 10 shitty teachers you get out of a job, there are 20 awesome teachers that you will be screwing over.

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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

My mother and both my sisters are elementary school teachers, so I know quite a bit about it. How much you work as a teacher is dependent on how dedicated you are. You can easily get by on working just a bare-bones 40 hours a week if you want to (and shit loads do.) There are some teachers that do their lesson planning and correcting in half-assed ways while they're in the building. That's the way it is when you put people on salary. The amount my mother and sisters work is insane, but I think they're the exception and not the rule. I don't envy how much time they put in (and I work 50+ hours a week.) They work crazy amounts of hours every week... it's not like it starts when you enter the building and ends after the kids get on the buses. They treat it like their lives revolve around it. The only plus side is the fact that they get paid while they get that short summer break.

I guess it depends on your work ethic.

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Edit:

I have to say...there are a lot more of these "exceptions to the rule" then people think. Your sisters work as much as every teacher at my school. It's the norm here. The exceptions are the teachers who are here from 6:45am-8pm and 3-5 hours on saturday. I know 2-3 at my school who put these hours in....of course they have no families/boyfriends and aren't very social folks either,lol.



Original post:

Nobody could get by on 40 hours per week at my school or either of my folks schools. It's not possible. With at home and after school stuff, I say 50-60 hours while getting paid for 7 1/2 per day. You call it a summer break...but it's unpaid. Many teachers I know get side jobs just to make it through the summer, so it's not always a bonus. When your house payment is $2800 per month and you take home $2400....you can forget about having a wife that can stay home and raise your kids. People think teachers make so much money, but the cost of living around here is higher then most places.....so it evens out. How many teachers outside of California can't afford a home in the county they teach in? Some, but not many.

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Originally Posted by NGT

You call it a summer break...but it's unpaid.

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Not for my mother and my sisters.

They're on salary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Not for my mother and my sisters.

They're on salary.

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Teachers get paid for 10 months. They choose at the beginning of the year if they want it in 10 checks or broken up into 12 checks so they don't have to do the budgeting. The school just cuts them a 3 month size check at the end of the year for June, July, and August. Then they won't get paid again until the end of September which is the first check for the next year. So really the summer is unpaid.

Education is a serious issue in California. Illegal immigants & other piss-ants who don't pay taxes are getting free education for their children, and our school system is pissing away money on salaries for the administrators. Who gets the squeeze? The teachers and the kids.
First of all, teachers here in California make dick for a salary. We're talking a starting salary of $20,000 a year. I know two teachers that are making this right now. As most people know, this is barely enough to get by in California, even if you are renting a cheap apartment. Plus, I get a lot of teachers coming in my place of business to buy school supplies out of their own pocket, because the schools won't supply what's needed. I've even heard of teachers having to buy a whole set of textbooks for their classes, just so they can friggin' teach something!
Meanwhile, the School Board administrators who sit on their lazy asses all day are seriously making $200,000 a year or more, and for what? That's our tax dollars at work. Somethings gotta be done. :mad:
...Hovever, I don't like the sound of those propositions. I don't trust anything that comes from Ahnald, and when in doubt, I vote "No" on everything!

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Originally Posted by Ely13

I don't even know where to begin with Vlad's post.

Where are the highest proportion of top research Universities in the world? The United States.

What country produces the most medical literature in the world? The United States, by a longshot (US does about ~35-40%, next country is around ~10-12%)

If you want to practice international law, from the perspective of the corporate world, what countries fall under the 'you must have studied here' category? The United States and the United Kingdom.

http://channels.netscape.com/pf/pack...opuniversities

The World's Top 10 Universities

When it comes to ranking institutions of higher learning worldwide, American universities dominate.

That's the word from a new list of the world's most prestigious and famous universities created by The Times of London Higher Education Supplement, reports the AAP news service.

Led by Harvard University, fully seven of the top 10 schools are in the United States. Oxford and Cambridge are the only British universities to make the cut in the top 10, although two other schools--the London School of Economics and Imperial College came in at 11th and 14th respectively.

Why an international list? "Leading universities increasingly define themselves in terms of international competition," said John O'Leary, editor of The Times Higher Education Supplement. The Times Higher Education World University Rankings are based on the opinions of 1,300 academics in 88 countries, as well as the latest measures of research excellence and teaching.

The top 10 universities in the World University Rankings are:

1. Harvard University (United States)
2. University of California, Berkeley (United States)
3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (United States)
4. California Institute of Technology (United States)
5. Oxford University (United Kingdom)
6. Cambridge University (United Kingdom)
7. Stanford University (United States)
8. Yale University (United States)
9. Princeton University (United States)
10. ETH Zurich (Switzerland)

Of the top 200 universities, all are in 29 countries. Dominating the list are the United States with 62, the United Kingdom with 30, Germany with 17, and Australia with 14.

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I wasn´t talking about Universities. Of course American Universities are the best in the world. I am talking about primary and high school.