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http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07...s_6129500.htmlQuote:
Production of all versions of controversy-wracked bestseller suspended.
M-rated, Hot Coffee-free version expected in Q3; Take-Two lowers guidance on news, still blames "unauthorized third party modification." Full story coming soon.
:oh_no:
people are fucking retarded
what's new?
M3h, this game still bores me.
I'm glad this happened. It shows that the ESRB isn't the fox guarding the chiken coop, as most politicans accuse it of being. Shame on Rockstar for bringing increased scrutiny to the entire industry. I'm never buying anything with the R* symbol on it again.
EDIT: Kotaku has the latest updates on this decision.
really, love the gta series. told you, and ya'll boys wonder why SNK is scared to release "blood" in new releases these days. :oh_no:Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
If GTA wasn't piss-boring I might be concerned.
why the fuck do you talk like a black gangsta from the early 90s?Quote:
Originally Posted by aegreatone
that's probably why you identify with this game
Quote:
Originally Posted by roker
hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355
I talk more like Caesar in person. Or maybe the other mexican played by Kid Frost. Anways, i love all of the gta series startin wit the original Grand Theft Auto, the graphics sucked but the gameply was tight. And GTA3, was :buttrock:Quote:
Originally Posted by roker
Well according to the reports the sourcecode is indeed in all the games, and only needs to be "unlocked" with a Action Replay or Gameshark.
I seriously don't think a kid with GTASA and a ActionReplay should be able to see that stuff... so I guess the rating is warranted.
Sales will skyrocket. Perhaps the MA/"un fixed" version will be teh rare! lol. :lol: :loco:
Yeah, but the code was not used. It isn't their fault (more or less) that some hacker decdied he wanted to make it public.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355
And I still love the Grand Theft Auto games....unrtil I beat them.
The blood on SNK's games and the stuff that goes on in GTA games aren't even in the same galaxy.Quote:
Originally Posted by aegreatone
I know my opinion's unpopular, but as a gamer, I was worried that the ESRB will be seen as a ratings group with no teeth. I'm happy this happened, as it should keep the politicans at bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
yes there is, i remember back in the days they wanted to ban/sue MK2 for the violence, SS2 was also one of those games redemmed "violent". And about ten years later you got assholes bitchin about a game that has clearly an "M" rating.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
:oh_no:
candyassQuote:
Originally Posted by Curt
Well, my grandmother remembers when people used to travel by horseback, but that doesn't mean it's all that relevant to means of transportation today. I agree that these people are idiotic and that this is a total waste of time, but the comparison of GTA to SNK's games (pick the worst if you'd like) is still quite a stretch, IMO. The fact that a game like GTA even exists should mean that SNK is totally in the clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by aegreatone
That's funny, I doubt Caesar would type like an illiterate dipshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by aegreatone
I think that's actually a good point. The reason the MPAA was formed was to prevent politicians from meddling (again).Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355
Any industry that can't effectively police itself is asking for government intervention.
it's even funnier considering he gave me a serious reply to a sarcastic questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobak
And if Rockstar has to be swept under the bus to be made an example of... fine by me, I just want the government to keep off my joystick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobak
:waits for the inevetable sexual innuendo:
a little further down on the main page:Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355
Good god! Didn't we go through this shit 20 years ago with Galoob vs Nintendo over the Gamegenie?Quote:
Take-Two is hinting at taking legal action against the makers of popular console peripheral Action Replay.
Shortly after the announced recall of Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Take-Two sent out a statement that in part read that they were exploring taking legal actions against companies that profited from creating and distributing tools for altering the content of their game.
I wish I had Mercenary X99's gift for gab so I could fully express how utterly retarded this is.
I think that they're just looking for someone to blame other than themselves... :oh_no:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoTheranthrope
It depends on what the companies they're suing are doing to the game. I studies the related cases (The legal issue in all of these is the copyright concept of "derivative works", but I'll skip that legal jargon):Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoTheranthrope
What saved Galoob in that 1992 case was that the Game Genie didn't alter anything "in" the game to the actual programming. Rather, the argument that won the court's opinion was the Game Genie basically filtered the catridge data on its way from the cartridge to the console.
If you can wrap your head around the abstract concept you can see how a "mod" is a very different animal not necesarily protected by that ruling. While many companies permit fan-made mods, they have the power to enforce legal action against them in certain situations (often it's not financially smart to do so... unless the mod ends up having your game sales suspended...)
There was another important case involving Duke Nukem (I can't remember the name of the parties... I believe it was Microstar vs. Apogee (1996)): in that case the controversy was over maps made and sold by another company. Again, because of how game maps (.map files) were used by the computer game, the court found the additional maps didn't alter the game. The company did however get in trouble for using the copyrighted images on their boxes. they based their holding on the '92 Galoob case.
These GTA:SA mods are actually going into the game and messing with programming. A copyright holder can sue on derivative work rights if they want to. Anyone who made money on this mod is basically going to have a monumental task proving otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobak
But Interact is essentually doing the same thing that galoob did years ago. The whole "hot coffee" sequence was already on the disc. The mod dosen't "add" anything, it was already there in an normally non-accessable area. It's my guess that if you had the PS2/PC devloper emulator and knew where to look in the .dat files of the finished game you can still play the offending sequence. Rockstar is making it sound like the mod is creating something new, when it is simply allowing access to an area of the game that was "walled off" from regular play.
Yeah, but because of the content this unlocks I would think something could be done. I was just amazed how far this came.
Personally, I can't be bothered to given less than one-quarter of a shit for Roskstar, I given even less of a shit for the GTA seres, and even less of a shit for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark of the Wolves
Based onb the content for the regular, normally accessable, game, it should've been given an AO in the first place. It should not be played by kids PERIOD. It should've been one of those made-by-adults-for-adults-no-kids-involved kind of thing.
[rant}
The AO for GTO:SA should be a total non-issue but mainstream-americans are so weird about things that they think are "for kids" like comics, video games and anime. When anything "for kids" get's marketed for adults mainstream-americans work themselves into a frothy lather. The're insane! They cant seem to grasp that this sexual/violent/adult thing could be bought by adults for their own entertainment. Ugh. Makes me sick.
[/rant]
Fact: Rockstar created the models and code necessary for the "Hot Coffee" scenario to take place.
Fact: Rockstar, for unknown reasons, chose not to release the game with the "Hot Coffee" mini-game playable in anyway during "normal" gameplay. That is, without outside modification or alternation of the "normal" game code. There is no way to access this mini-game without a third-party device or a third-party modfication package for either the console or PC version.
Speculation: Rockstar chose not to include the "Hot Coffee" mini-game for censorship/credbility issues, rather than fundamentally deciding it to be a bad idea. Why? Because the code and models are complete and in the final build of the game, but not accessible via any normal gameplay methods. Its likely Rockstar fully intended to allow CJ to have sex with his girlfriends, but in the final month(s) before the game went to manufacture, Rockstar or Take-Two decided that such a mini-game would in fact, warrant an ESRB rating of "AO" and vastly hamper sales and distribution of the game.
So, rather than rating the game based on what is encountered during the course of normal gameplay, the ESRB succumbs to bureaucratic bullshit and giving the game an "AO" for something that Rockstar obviously didn't intend for anyone to see.
It'd be like suddenly giving an R-rated film an NC-17 rating because at one point the film had a hardcore sex scene in it, but the director decided not to include it before the film went to theaters.
Corollary: God of War contains a sex mini-game and bare-chested females. Two in fact. So not only does God of War promote sexual activity, it promotes sexual activity with multiple partners, which, the last time I checked, Jesus doesn't like. God of War is rated Mature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoTheranthrope
And kids can't play AO games? M means 17 and up. And you get carded everywhere I went if you try to buy it.
True, but AO means that it can't be sold at places like Toys 'R' Us or Walmart (even though Walmart sells R rated movies, which is quite hypocritical in of itself. but that's a seperate rant) or other "kid frindly" retailers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark of the Wolves
Here's some facts about the AO rating.
Counting GTASA, that makes 19 AO titles. There are "uncut and uncensored" versions of Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude and Singles available for download here, one got the rating for extremely graphic violence, another for simulated gambiling and everything else got the rating for pornographic reasons. All but the simulated gambiling one got slapped with a "strong sexual content" descriptor. Notice a theme there? :smirk:
Source
EDIT: Just noticed that GTASA is on the source list as of 10:45 PM.
You guys missed the point:
If they can prove that, to access the already existing stuff, it requires going in and modifying any code, you'd have a potential problem. To use a music analogy, it would be like a remix.
This suing business over the PAR is silly. Bobak, nice synopsis of the Game Genie business, I always was curious about that.
BTW, the whole GTA series should have been AO from the start. Kids my age have no business playing such an immoral game. GTA will be one of the damns of my generation (Z?).
All Gamestops were instructed to pull every last copy on PS2/Xbox/PC off the shelves and tuck them in the back room. We are to deny sale to any customers who inquire/wish to buy as it is company policy not to sell any title that has an AO rating on it.
Can't say I feel sorry for Rockstar or Take-Two in the slightest.
Just a quick update.
The EBGames website updated their GTASA product listings to reflect the AO rating, and Gamestop pulled their product listing alltogether.
Here's a statement from the IEMA:
EDIT: Damn, someone beat me to the Gamestop revocation... :confused:Quote:
Retail Reaction Statement to Violent Video Game Recall
Leading retailers respond to rating revocation of latest GTA game.
HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA (July 20) - The trade group that represents the $10-billion-dollar computer and video game industry's leading retailers, the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association (IEMA) has issued the following statement regarding the revocation of the "Mature" rating which the controversial video game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.
"The ESRB (Entertainment Software Ratings Board) notified us late this afternoon Eastern Time that they have revoked the "Mature" rating previously issued Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas following an extensive investigation.
Our members intend to immediately cease all sales of the game until existing inventory can either be re-stickered with an AO (Adults Only) rating, or exchanged for new versions of the game that has the hidden content removed and the original M (Mature 17+) rating intact. Though not a policy, IEMA members generally do not carry AO-rated games any differently than we do not carry X-rated videos or DVDs, thus it is likely that our members will be removing all copies of the current version and re-stocking with the updated version."
We understand that several non-IEMA retail companies intend to continue selling the current version, so we would refer all media inquiries to those respective corporations.
Statement attributable to Hal Halpin, president, IEMA.
A shitty game gets a shitty rating, what else is new?
I just noticed that the GTASA product listing from Best Buy vanished like David Caruso's movie career.
Water Closet: The Forbidden Chamber got an ESRB rating!? :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355
I still have to play this game. I am sooo lazy...someone buy it for me. Or trade it to me...for something. :tickled:
You know, I wish someone could objectively tell me why San Andreas is really such a HORRIBLE game.
Don't care for its open-ended style? Thats fine.
Think its "more of the same" of the previous GTA installments? I can handle that, as thats PART of the game.
Don't like black people? Hey, I guess whatever floats your boat.
"This game sucks, deserves this rating." Not acceptable.
I actually like the concept of "open-ended but with missions" format, however I hate how the GTA series exicutes it. The things that give it an M or AO rating are the very same things which make me not want to play the game in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buro Destruct
Please don't pull the tired old "Why da haters gotta hate?" (non-)defence, GTA:SA and Rockstar are getting what they deserve.
Hey man, I really think the AO rating needs to be enforced and employed far more often, but they need to change it to something with a less "sinful" connotation. Remember when the MPAA changed X to NC-17? Despite the fact they both essentially mean the same thing, the latter at least lends a film some credibility (Waits for someone to post a Showgirls image).Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoTheranthrope
I'm not saying that San Andreas deserves to be in the hands of anyone younger than 18, but the message this whole debacle is communicating is that the game is no better than smutty hentai games and Leisuire Suit Larry which is basically an animated issue of Playboy. The ESRB needs to be consistent in its enforcement, not buckling under the pressue of politicians and soccer moms.
God of War should be AO. And I will continue to use this game in parallel with San Andreas, as they contain the same things and should be judged accordingly.
I installed the Hot Coffee mod in my Xbox hard disc. You have to start a new game from scratch (otherwise the game won't run), but you have your first girlfriend available right in he start, and she always invites you to coffee in every date. I heard that with the game modded you are not able to do the Driving School missions.
The mini-game is quite stupid. You are dressed (I guess it might be possible to undress yourself in your own home or just put on "something more comfortable" before it) but the girl is naked. She first gives you a blowjob, then you fuck her. You have to press the stick up & down according to CJ's ass movements, you have 3 different sexual positions and some different camera angles. If you manage to fulfill a "excitement" bar, you are successful and she comes.
Personally I don't see where's the problem in just rating the game Adult Only, as it should have been to begin with even without the mod. Anything else is hypocresy in my opinion. Adult people should be able to play adult games without worries.
And remember that it is extremely easy to take any PS2 or Xbox game with video cutscenes, rip it and replace the videos with any porn movie you want. Does this count as "modding"? Of course it is not the same because the "sexual content" was not included in the game by itself, but well, you get my idea. You could also mod Xtreme Bitch Volleyball to have all girls naked, but the sexual attributes had to be included externally during the mod.
This also reminds me of what happened in Spain some years ago with some cartoon for children VHS tapes. Looks like the publisher reused a stock of porn tapes to record the new content on them, but the cartoon movie was shorter than the porn film so if you continued watching the cartoon after the end and credits, you could still watch some minutes of porn film. Some parents complained as their children watched "by accident" adult-only porn.
And for the record I like the GTA games :emb:
Wow, this game is no longer available new at EBgames or Gamestop. What a load of bullshit.
I agree dude... Look in any gaming mag nowadays and all you see is more and more games based on some form of domestic violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by galfordo
Shit, inventing the GTA series was sort of irresponsible to begin with, IMO. Like Rockstar didn't think this would be a problem down the road. I'm glad GTA is getting the AO rating, as it deserves it.Quote:
After video of the mod was widely circulated, such figures as ardent anti-game activist Jack Thompson and US Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) blasted the game. Clinton went as far as to publicly equate violent games with cigarettes and alcohol as a hazard to America's youth.
BTW for the record, I'm pro responisbility, not pro censorship.
You know what this means.....
get God of War before it's pulled from the shelves. :) :) :)
use the ignore list functionQuote:
Originally Posted by roker
I think the way it got the rating is bullshit, but I must say it should've had that rating from the beginning Hot Coffee mini-games or not. If the ESRB wants to prove it has some teeth it needs to start rating more games AO from the start, not after a huge deal has been made of a game mod in the press.
As for Buro's question I'll say here that while I'll admit that I just don't care for the game style, I know that doesn't mean the game sucks. Much like how the only true RPG I've ever played is Mario RPG, I know that I just don't care for the genre but there are good RPGs out there.
What I think most people hate about the GTAs, starting with 3 (I like 1 and 2 actually) is the way it has become the standard for cool of games to include as much pointless violence and sex as the open-ended or even mission based format can allow for. This is how we end up with far inferior GTA clones like State of Emergency, Driv3r, Dead to Rights(?maybe not can't remember), etc. Everytime I heard someone talking, far too excitedly, about how you could nail a hooker in ( I think ) GTA3, I'd cringe. Its just such a bore to me, and I notice that there are people out there that own a PS2 with Madden 200X and GTA(insert edition here) and that's about it.
So maybe its an anti-mainstream thing too.
I guess I have toQuote:
Originally Posted by norton9478
|3o\^/n3d
I would like to see how this thing actually looks before I pass judgment (like does it show the genitals etc?)... But if it shows stuff similar to hardcore porn, it would be understandable though unpleasant for others who probably have no interest or knowledge of such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amano Jacu
I am thinking to myself "could not the makers of this game disclose hidden features or codes to the people who are responsible for rating games?"
If this were to be the case in the future, there would be less problems IMHO.