There's a reason President Obama didn't bring this to the congress. .
This is something the up and coming fossil fuel giants are not good at.
Mike, your arguments are eloquent and sound reasonable but they're absolutely ridiculous.
Are you honestly suggesting every country should be independently monitored and inspected because the agreement is some nefarious conspiracy to game the system and disadvantage American small business? Your post sounds like an RNC press release. Who, exactly, is being crushed by this?
What's more important, "small business" or the future of mankind and the planet? The perfect is the enemy of the good. Every other signatory supports the agreement. Business supports the agreement. Religious institutions support the agreement. Scientists support the agreement. Citizens support the agreement. Only Trump and Trump apologists like you do not.
I think he's saying the joke with this is that there's no actual enforcement for any of the countries that signed on. I agree...there's no way i'd ever trust China to not lie through their teeth. Self reporting is a joke. If this is to be done right, there needs to be actual consequences for not performing, otherwise the US and a small handful of other countries will be left doing all the heavy lifting...
And wyo's point was yeah, but what's the alternative, do fuck all? If America can say hand on heart that they are fulfilling their end of the bargain (on terms that they, the country themselves, offered forwards as what they would do) that's the best anyone can do.
Some will cheat, some will lie. Still have to try.
You're not going to get every country in the world to sign up to an agreement that includes threats.
If this is *truly* an immediate global threat...and I mean truly...then we all have the exact same interest in solving the problem. And yes, any country that actively doesn't participate yet reaps the benefits of the rest of the world slowing their economies down for the greater good should absolutely be punished.
Seeing as how the Paris agreement...is voluntary and *self policed* by countries with histories of playing by their own rules...the whole thing is completely laughable. What's the point of the agreement? There's no accountability. That kind of suggests the problem isn't an imminent threat if the topic isn't even worth enforcing. The Paris Accord is treating the topic of global warming with zero respect, if it's not worth enforcing...it's pretty hard to take seriously.
*truly* an immediate global threat in who's eyes? Scientists? Politicians? Average Joe?
Who would you like to take it seriously and how? If Britain threatens to nuke France if it doesn't recycle pringles tubes would global warming become more believable?
What do you want to happen?
Half the political spectrum is melting down today. If global warming is as big of a threat as some have been claiming it to be for the last few decades...then we all deserve everybody you listed to take this extremely seriously.
Obama was nearly sainted after putting his name to that document, and that document means about as much as a middle school winter coat drive initiative. "Yeahhhh...there's a problem, people need coats, if you'd like to participate that's cool, if not...that's cool too, you won't get in trouble, it's voluntary anyways..."
It's absolutely insane that's the best they could do while crafting this document, especially given how big of a fuss they've been making about the topic for years now. This was the time world leaders had to take the issue head on and we got a volunteer sign up sheet. Here we are, number 1 and 2 in carbon emissions, the USA and China...and the rest of the world expects us to wager our jobs/industry/economic growth against...China's good word that they'll play fair. Along with every other country on that list??
LAUGHABLE.
Basically, if you're a person who truly believes we are the cause *and* we are the solution to global warming...don't bother being pissed at Trump, you should have been pissed off a year ago when the best you got was that hollow agreement.
Every negative argument in this thread is fucking ignorant and contrarian. When you have an agreement with over 100 countries agreeing, of course it's never going to be perfect, or even close to it. Let's hear some alternative ideas other than doing fuck all. Still waiting to hear what Murican small businesses will be ruined as well.
I agree. I listed you, so.... do you?
Do you reckon winter coat drive initiatives generate any winter coats?
Some, on a volunteer basis...point being its voluntary because it's not actually important enough to be mandatory...that was the comparison...
Are you using the good word of the West as some kind of moral high ground here? Are you for real?
The agreement is only as hollow as the number of winter coats it does or doesn't generate.
Notice of intention can be a powerful thing. Would you expect your missus to be fucking other men more when you were married, or when she'd just divorced you?
Morals...don't apply here, it's politics and business. It was a hustle from the start, China's not gonna play fair and shoot itself in the foot economically if they don't have to.
It's hollow because it's not a *binding* agreement. No penalty for failure.
If climate change is really as important as the media says it is, it really deserves more than *intentions* on paper.