So I finally figured out the name of that damn move of Charlotte's...

[Deuce]

Consulted with a French guy I know, too.

 

[evil wasabi]

Nope, I'm quite certain. It's written in the original Japanese here as follows:

バイオネットラージュ, or "baionetto raaju"

The official English website has its fair share of errors. This just happens to be one.

Wait, did you see the English sticker sheet from the MVS kit yet? I linked the picture off mameworld, but those homos took it down.

 

[Deuce]

Haven't seen the sticker sheet, no. But I also know what she's actually saying, and that's "baionetto raaju," not "baioretto ranju."

 

[Mushiki]

I used to believe it was... "Violin Thrust"

 

[evil wasabi]

Haven't seen the sticker sheet, no. But I also know what she's actually saying, and that's "baionetto raaju," not "baioretto ranju."

I don't care what she says, or else a bulk of Galford's moves would be named "Go Poppy"

here's the pic

 

[Deuce]

I don't care what she says, or else a bulk of Galford's moves would be named "Go Poppy"

Galford's also not trying to call out the name of those attacks, either. Charlotte is, pretty much uniformly. And besides, what's your point? Since when have SNK's Engrish translations been considered the final authority on anything? Especially considering this is the same game that brought us the following:

...from a series set in the late 1700s, containing a blonde Californian surfer-dude ninja.

It doesn't matter what the US marquee says. The Anglicized movenames for the Roo-Roos are fucked 2853 ways from Sunday, too. Doesn't mean they're spelled correctly. Or Asura's move list... such gems as "Refi=Shull" when it should be "Reficul" (Lucifer spelled backwards). Or Tam Tam and Cham Cham... need we go into the myriad ways they've mutilated the Nahuatl language?

Quite frequently, their "official" translation given isn't even representative of the original term's meaning. So please, don't try citing official English SNK resources to back up such a claim, when we've all known for years that SNK has barely ever known its ass from its elbow when it comes to English.

Someone saw "Baionette Raaju" and did what we all did when the game came out... tried to convert Flench into Engrish, with results about as expected. We were wrong before, just as they are wrong now.

 

[evil wasabi]

Someone saw "Baionette Raaju" and did what we all did when the game came out... tried to convert Flench into Engrish, with results about as expected. We were wrong before, just as they are wrong now.

Asura's move list was actually fine. It was the sounds backwards, not the letters. I had no probs with it.

If you want to go back and update your faq, which has been perfectly fine for over a decade now, it's your call. But the fact is that the name is right there on the English marquee, and belongs in the faq just as much as Rimnerel belongs in the SSIII tapfaq.

 

[Deuce]

Asura's move list was actually fine. It was the sounds backwards, not the letters.

A little sleuthing there back then revealed that they spoke the names aloud (or as close as they could approximate), did a simple reverse in Sound Forge or whatever audio utility they were using, and they wrote that out in katakana. That's the only way it could work in Japanese, as they can't simply "spell" something backwards.

That you could simply accept that as good enough underscores the basic flaw in your reasoning, which is the core of the issue with good localization versus simple translation. A proper localization job makes a point of trying to convey the spirit, as opposed to simply the letter, of the original speech and/or text.

A piss-poor translation, such as those seen in so many fansubs and scanlation jobs, is frequently full of Japanese honorifics, makes heavy use of Romaji and Japanese grammar when simple editing would enable decent English to come through and make otherwise-awkward sentences sound natural to a native English speaker.

Yes, "Refi=Shull" conveys precisely the sounds themselves that SNK used when naming the move, but to an English speaker, it's complete gibberish and is utterly without meaning. But if you take the words they were actually saying and reversing instead and spell them backwards, and list them together, getting a list of movenames like Reficul, Nahtaivel, Nortatem, Nommam, Bubezleeb and the like, a picture starts to come together very quickly, thereby conveying to the player/reader the original intention of the writing, and not just a collection of random letters.

If you're willing to settle for less, then that's your prerogative. I'm not.

But how many people do you know that actually refer to Kyo and Iori's uppercuts as "Fire Ball"? After all, it's on the US marquee (or at least, in the US manuals), so that must be what you call them, right? To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

 

[evil wasabi]

A little sleuthing there back then revealed that they spoke the names aloud (or as close as they could approximate), did a simple reverse in Sound Forge or whatever audio utility they were using, and they wrote that out in katakana. That's the only way it could work in Japanese, as they can't simply "spell" something backwards.

That you could simply accept that as good enough underscores the basic flaw in your reasoning, which is the core of the issue with good localization versus simple translation. A proper localization job makes a point of trying to convey the spirit, as opposed to simply the letter, of the original speech and/or text.

A piss-poor translation, such as those seen in so many fansubs and scanlation jobs, is frequently full of Japanese honorifics, makes heavy use of Romaji and Japanese grammar when simple editing would enable decent English to come through and make otherwise-awkward sentences sound natural to a native English speaker.

Yes, "Refi=Shull" conveys precisely the sounds themselves that SNK used when naming the move, but to an English speaker, it's complete gibberish and is utterly without meaning. But if you take the words they were actually saying and reversing instead and spell them backwards, and list them together, getting a list of movenames like Reficul, Nahtaivel, Nortatem, Nommam, Bubezleeb and the like, a picture starts to come together very quickly, thereby conveying to the player/reader the original intention of the writing, and not just a collection of random letters.

If you're willing to settle for less, then that's your prerogative. I'm not.

But how many people do you know that actually refer to Kyo and Iori's uppercuts as "Fire Ball"? After all, it's on the US marquee (or at least, in the US manuals), so that must be what you call them, right? To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

Even with the move names as they were in Asura Zanmaden, I still figured out the meanings of the names on my own. I don't remember you emailing me that information.

And with regards to Kyo and Iori, I just realized that I actually do call them fireballs. It's not called settling for less. If you find that the Japanese movelist has it Violet Lunge listed as Baionette Large now, then make a note of it. If you want to crusade about it, I'd say get a life. No one really cares.

edit add: and I'm glad that they made the move names the way they did in Asura Zanmaden. It made them more enjoyable to decipher. Had they just been straight transposed into backwards, they wouldn't have been interesting at all.

 

[Deuce]

Even with the move names as they were in Asura Zanmaden, I still figured out the meanings of the names on my own. I don't remember you emailing me that information.

Never claimed you did. The point is that most people would not. The idea of quality localization is accessibility and quality writing... something that SNK (particularly and especially not in the SS series) has never been very long on.

I'm not "crusading" for anything. You were the one who came in, cited an English SNK resource and essentially claimed that settled the matter, I was wrong, and that was that. I think you've known me long enough to know that I don't randomly make claims for their own sake. I did the research in the course of my SSRPG translation work, found the actual name and thought I'd pass it along. Whatever you may offer up doesn't disprove my findings.

If you continue to call them by the officially-given US names, that's your own lookout. But (and I think we all know this by now), many people don't accept or use those... so if they're going to use something else, why not give them something representative of what the writers actually intended?

 

[evil wasabi]

Never claimed you did. The point is that most people would not. The idea of quality localization is accessibility and quality writing... something that SNK (particularly and especially not in the SS series) has never been very long on.

I'm not "crusading" for anything. You were the one who came in, cited an English SNK resource and essentially claimed that settled the matter, I was wrong, and that was that. I think you've known me long enough to know that I don't randomly make claims for their own sake. I did the research in the course of my SSRPG translation work, found the actual name and thought I'd pass it along. Whatever you may offer up doesn't disprove my findings.

If you continue to call them by the officially-given US names, that's your own lookout. But (and I think we all know this by now), many people don't accept or use those... so if they're going to use something else, why not give them something representative of what the writers actually intended?

I'm fine with that much. My point is mainly that Violet Lunge is not wrong. It's just the English move name. Both can be legitimate. On the official Samurai Shodown website, it says Baionette Large in katakana, but then it says Violet Lunge on the English side. The discrepancy would have been corrected if it existed. They two have coexisted for over 10 years, and have been maintained and reprinted by the license holders all this time without "correction."

You should look at the old thread where Shito tried to press the Japanese pronunciation of Castlevania names with AkuDora and Belmondo.

 

[Deuce]

You should look at the old thread where Shito tried to press the Japanese pronunciation of Castlevania names with AkuDora and Belmondo.

Ugh. Well, the former is just particularly lame/stupid. Trying to force people to use a Japanese name simply because it's Japanese and the Japanese language is somehow "cooler." As for the latter, "Belmondo" is written that way because of how the Japanese interpret the way the French pronounce the name, "Belmont." Following Shito's logic, "Simon" should also be pronounced "Simone."

I shan't be using any Romaji anywhere in the SSRPG translation, save for proper names. Technique names will be translated from scratch. And if I can get the Nahuatl for Cham Cham's moves translated, I may do the same for hers.

 

[evil wasabi]

Ugh. Well, the former is just particularly lame/stupid. Trying to force people to use a Japanese name simply because it's Japanese and the Japanese language is somehow "cooler." As for the latter, "Belmondo" is written that way because of how the Japanese interpret the way the French pronounce the name, "Belmont." Following Shito's logic, "Simon" should also be pronounced "Simone."

I shan't be using any Romaji anywhere in the SSRPG translation, save for proper names. Technique names will be translated from scratch. And if I can get the Nahuatl for Cham Cham's moves translated, I may do the same for hers.

Is the Violet Lunge in SSRPG? I never really used Charlotte in that game.

 

[Deuce]

Is the Violet Lunge in SSRPG? I never really used Charlotte in that game.

No, SSRPG predates SS4.

 

[Late]

Erudition

 

[evil wasabi]

No, SSRPG predates SS4.

I know that well enough, but when you brought up the SSRPG translation I wasn't sure if I missed something.

 

[Deuce]

No particular lead-in... it was simply something that I decided to ask about, since I was doing the research in the course of trying to get the correct movenames/translations for the RPG, and I happened to have a French resource available to ask about it.

As a random aside... translating the dialogue in Kyo is a royal pain in the ass. Tons of Kansai-ben to wade through... especially after the weekend I've had... is not fun. At all.

 

[evil wasabi]

No particular lead-in... it was simply something that I decided to ask about, since I was doing the research in the course of trying to get the correct movenames/translations for the RPG, and I happened to have a French resource available to ask about it.

As a random aside... translating the dialogue in Kyo is a royal pain in the ass. Tons of Kansai-ben to wade through... especially after the weekend I've had... is not fun. At all.

I wouldn't even think about KoF Kyo. I have owned the game for over 7 years and still haven't played it even once.

 

[Deuce]

No, no. Kyo the city in Kansai. Not Kyo the game.

 

[evil wasabi]

No, no. Kyo the city in Kansai. Not Kyo the game.

LOL, ok, good!