KOF and Joystick inconsistencies across years

[Phaenos]

I did a quick search regarding this subject and wasn't able to find any information so I thought I would create a new topic. Not sure if this is the right place for it or not.

So I have an MVS cabinet and I've been noticing some odd behavior with my joysticks and how responsive they are with fighting games in general. The easiest way to demonstrate what I'm experiencing is with the King of Fighter's series, but it extends to other fighting series such as Fatal Fury or Samurai Showdown as well.

Basically my issue is this:

Doing certain types of movements with my joystick will create inconsistent results depending on how old or more recent the fighting game is. For example: If I do a + attack in King of Fighters '95, the odds of it successfully pulling off the move is shoddy at best. Whereas doing a + move in the same game will correctly execute every single time.

The quality of being able to pull off the + seems to improve steadily the higher the generation of game I'm playing is. For example, if I'm playing KOF 2002, Mark of the Wolves, or SNK vs. Capcom, the move works every time without fail. For KOF in particular, the cut-off seems to be from '98 to '99 for me. '98 is inconsistent whereas '99 works every time.

This leads me to believe that there isn't anything wrong with my joysticks, but I don't know enough about these things to know one way or another.

That said, I distinctly remember going to the arcades as a kid and sometimes having this exact same problem with certain games. There was a 1-slot MVS as my local game store that had KOF '98 that always responded flawlessly, while my local arcade also had KOF '98 that seemed to respond shoddily.

Has anyone had similar experiences or know anything about this? Are my joysticks messed up? Am -I- messed up?

KOF '98 is my all-time favorite fighting game and I know for a fact that I played it flawlessly in my yesteryear, but trying to re-create that experience now at home has been frustrating for me. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Niko]

Have you tried to reproduce the "moves" while in the test screen? Sounds like you might have some flaky microswitches or wiring. It also could just be that the earlier games where less forgiving to inaccuracies in execution. I often have a hard time executing moves in KOF98 that I can do majority of the time in KOF99. So it may not be you or your setup.

Another thing to consider is restricter gates. If your using a square gate, its harder to execute or than with a circular gate.

 

[Archdesigner03]

What joystick are you using? Japanese sanwa/seseimitsu or american happs? I think it's a combination of the game and your joystick. Older games have crappy programing, and the programing improves with each newer games.

 

[GohanX]

Two things:

1: The execution required in the earlier games was brutal, it was relaxed as the series goes on.

2: Like Niko said, it could be the microswitches. I got a used MAS stick a while back, and although it worked correctly in every direction when tested, I simply couldn't do special moves. I replaced the switches and it was perfect.

 

[Atro]

Timing isn't equal.

If you don't have any issues with your micro switches, then you have to work your execution.
KOF98 QCF's are easy as pie to pull out.

 

[NeoGeoNinja]

This...

1: The execution required in the earlier games was brutal, it was relaxed as the series goes on.

Aaand this...

Timing isn't equal.

If you don't have any issues with your micro switches, then you have to work your execution.
KOF98 QCF's are easy as pie to pull out.

I suspect that there is (relatively speaking) nothing at all wrong with your Joysticks, Microswitches etc.

The earlier KOF titles had VERY strict move input windows. It wasn't until later games that there was more of a buffer available for you to use more relaxed (lazy!) inputs.

KOF 03 is the best example of this, as technically, the gameplay was improved massively in this version over it's predecessors (not to be confused with suggesting it's the best entry in the series, before we go there) and became the stepping stones towards making XI an even better gameplay experience.

However, for me, 2002 has the strictest inputs of them all oddly (imo). I really struggle with some of the executions in that game, specifically.

 

[Archdesigner03]

I suspect that there is (relatively speaking) nothing at all wrong with your Joysticks, Microswitches etc.

What kind of joystick one plays on makes a HUGE difference in execution. I had been using the OG Stick for the past 10 years for fighting games and just upgraded to joysticks with sanwa parts, the execution dramatically improved.

 

[grendelrt]

Two things:

1: The execution required in the earlier games was brutal, it was relaxed as the series goes on.

2: Like Niko said, it could be the microswitches. I got a used MAS stick a while back, and although it worked correctly in every direction when tested, I simply couldn't do special moves. I replaced the switches and it was perfect.

Ive noticed this as well. Samurai Shodown to Samurai Shodown 2 was a big jump in how easy the moves are to pull off. I have been playing a lot of KOF2000 and have a real hard time getting some moves off, I have to find the perfect motion and timing on certain moves to get them to work.

 

[cornerstone]

Older games have more stringent execution requirements, especially in regards to the number of frames allowed to pull them off.

 

[Phaenos]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm definitely going to have a look and see if the switches need replacing. It's interesting to hear about some of your experiences and how they differ from my own. For example, of all the fighters I play, KOF 2002 far and away has the crispest response and easiest execution of moves, whereas NeoGeoNinja has exactly the opposite experience. As far as I know the sticks on my cabinet are relatively new, but I have no idea what makes a quality stick in that regard.

I think I need to spend some time educating myself on sticks and more specifically the switches and wiring to make sure I'm getting the best execution possible.

Any recommendations on a good source for learning how to change out microswitches? This is all new and exciting for me, haha.

 

[joe8]

Older games have more stringent execution requirements, especially in regards to the number of frames allowed to pull them off.

That's what I've found, it's harder to pull off moves (like super attacks) in Street Fighter Alpha compared to Alpha 2 and 3. It's not just about what joystick you use, it's about the programming/game engine of the game itself. I use Akuma to practice with a joystick, as he has a lot of different special moves and super attacks, most of which aren't too hard to pull off.

 

[Niko]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm definitely going to have a look and see if the switches need replacing. It's interesting to hear about some of your experiences and how they differ from my own. For example, of all the fighters I play, KOF 2002 far and away has the crispest response and easiest execution of moves, whereas NeoGeoNinja has exactly the opposite experience. As far as I know the sticks on my cabinet are relatively new, but I have no idea what makes a quality stick in that regard.

I think I need to spend some time educating myself on sticks and more specifically the switches and wiring to make sure I'm getting the best execution possible.

Any recommendations on a good source for learning how to change out microswitches? This is all new and exciting for me, haha.

Joysticks pretty much come down to preference, as their mechanics are pretty simple. Its about whats most comfortable and easiest to you. Some joysticks dont have removable microswitches, in which case you would just need to get a new stick. One of the more popular sticks, the JLF can be had for ~$25.