Hong Kong extradition protests

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,434
Right now in Hong Kong, there have been massive protests growing over a bill introduced by the governor to allow China to extradite HK residents. China has been doing this extra-legally anyways, but this bill would make it legal. And the residents of Hong Kong are not pleased, obviously.

There is a deep disconnect between Chinese and HongKongese people that basically goes to culture. They are simply not the same. Hong Kong residents are notably more hygienic than their mainland counterparts. There is no pissing or shitting in public unless it is a mainland tourist. Mainland may like to groom locals to government puppetry, like in Xinjiang or HK, but the people in those areas are stubborn. In the case of Xinjiang, we have talked about how people are put in re-education camps, and families separated, women remarried to, or impregnated by, Han Chinese men.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...rotests-reflect-schism-between-china-and-west

Hong Kong is facing an existential threat. A vast protest on Sunday reflects the culmination of angst over changes that are undermining the foundations of the Chinese city’s economic prosperity and its distinct identity. How the impasse is resolved has implications not only for this former British colony and global financial center, but for the future of relations between China and the Western democratic world.

When the U.K. handed back control of Hong Kong to China in 1997, Beijing promised the city that it could maintain an independent legal system, democratic freedoms and a “high degree of autonomy” for at least 50 years. This “One Country, Two Systems” formula has underpinned the city’s success because it allowed Hong Kong to maintain access to global markets as a separate, law-abiding and free-trading member of the World Trade Organization. But as President Xi Jinping has concentrated more power than any Chinese leader since Mao Zedong, Hong Kong’s autonomy – and therefore its economic raison d'etre – has come under ever greater threat.

The proximate reason for the protest, which drew hundreds of thousands of people, was a proposed amendment to the law that for the first time would allow Hong Kong to extradite people to mainland China, and other jurisdictions with which it has no formal extradition treaty. This seemingly technical change has alarmed everyone from local judges to foreign bankers because it lowers the shield that protects Hong Kong’s legal system from the capricious and repressive judicial practices across the border.

The Hong Kong government, while making some concessions, has refused to back down, and the extradition bill will receive its second reading in the city’s Legislative Council on Wednesday. The government’s efforts to allay concerns have failed partly because the extradition issue is just the latest in a long list of threats to the city’s autonomy and rule of law. In the past few years the Hong Kong government has disqualified elected lawmakers, outlawed a political party, jailed pro-democracy protest leaders, expelled a senior Financial Times journalist, and looked the other way when Beijing’s agents kidnapped a bookseller and a billionaire from Hong Kong.

The violations of One Country, Two Systems have become so blatant that Western governments have warned the city’s success as an international business hub is in danger. On Monday, the U.S. State Department expressed “grave concern” over the extradition law. “The continued erosion of the ‘One Country, Two Systems’ framework puts at risk Hong Kong’s long-established special status in international affairs,” spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said.

The Chinese government typically dismisses such criticisms as “interference” in its domestic affairs. But the uncomfortable reality for Beijing is that the maintenance of Hong Kong’s autonomy is the basis on which the city gets preferential treatment from foreign governments.

The United States-Hong Kong Policy Act set Hong Kong’s freedoms and “high degree of autonomy” as preconditions for the continuation of the U.S.’s extensive economic relationships with the city after 1997. If Washington deems that Hong Kong is “not sufficiently autonomous,” the law allows the president to suspend by executive order its special treatment.

Diplomats have played down the suggestion that the U.S., or other Western governments, will revoke Hong Kong’s special status on a wholesale basis. Such a move would punish the Chinese state-owned companies, tycoons and officials who use Hong Kong as an entry point to the global financial system. It would also undermine the political and economic interests of foreign governments and businesses in Hong Kong, as well as punish local citizens who would suffer from the inevitable financial fallout. Nevertheless, the pressure to enact some form of sanctions will grow if Beijing keeps squeezing.

As China and the West enter a new era of strategic competition, this is about much more than the rights of seven million people and a host of international investors. Hong Kong is on the front line of the global struggle between an ever more assertive Chinese Communist Party and a world based on liberal democratic principles.

The fight over the extradition law has brought into sharp focus the seeming impossibility of integrating two vastly different political and legal systems. In the early years after the handover, when China was weaker, its leadership less assertive and Hong Kong’s economy much more important to the country, the contradictions at the heart of One Country, Two Systems were easily papered over.

Now the city, the Chinese government and the rest of the world are facing a moment of reckoning. If the extradition law is enacted, investors, businesses, journalists and NGOs may no longer be able to bank on Hong Kong being a safe place to carry out activities that are forbidden in mainland China. That would beg the question: Why stay?

In short, China's communist party has determined itself to become an existential threat to the Hong Kong way of life.
 

theMot

Reformed collector of junk
10 Year Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Posts
7,638
[Reserved for an intelligent, thought provoking post]
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Posts
44,913
In short, China's communist party has determined itself to become an existential threat to the Hong Kong way of life.

It is a threat to the world. It is so powerful now, it has made Hollywood and companies around the world bend to its whims. There will never be another movie like 'Seven Years in Tibet' for fear of losing out on business and $$$ in China.

They have built artificial islands in the South China Sea - in international waters - to strengthen their military and forbid other countries pass through. To make up for lost time while they were the sick man of Asia, they've gone full 19th century 'might makes right'. Only America has the power to stand up to them.

Xi Jinping has openly said there's a plan to make China a world superpower by 2050. Considering how fast things move here, and if the economy continues to grow, I can't say for sure if he's full of shit. I will say there's a slight possibility there will be war with Taiwan in my lifetime, even if it's 30-some years away. A few days ago, the US government called Taiwan a country, which is something Beijing in the past said it would go to war over.

As much as I hate the current US administration, there is one thing it is doing right: being tough on China.

As far as this extradition law is concerned, I feel for the HKers. Nothing will change. There's no news of it here in the mainland. Mainlanders will never understand why HKers don't want to be part of China and will continue to think they're arrogant.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,434
Mainland china is really huge and diverse. Why would someone in southern Jiangxi care about what happens in Xinjiang, when Beijing doesn't really care about problems people face in nearby Hebei? China should be many countries. Like South America - sure they mostly speak Spanish and Portuguese, but its a complete disservice for one government to centrally rule them all.
 

wyo

King of Spammers
10 Year Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Posts
10,214
Handing HK back to China also ruined the HK film industry.

You know things are bad when you see the HK people fondly reminisce about being under British control.
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Posts
44,913
What covers modern-day China used to be different countries. Most people forget or don't even know the Qing dynasty, the last dynasty of imperial China, was founded by Manchurians north of the Great Wall (wildlings).

But the Party has been hugely successful in establishing a national identity. Chinese are really proud of how big their country is and how small Japan is. So, no, Chinese don't care about Uyghurs (and many don't even consider them Chinese, despite being one of the minorities) but they do care about Xinjiang being a part of China, like with Tibet and Taiwan (yeah, mainlanders actually believe Taiwan is part of China).

Another thing is Sinicization. With Han making up more than 91% of ethnic makeup in China, and with policies that the Party created to stamp out ethnic culture, China isn't as diverse as it used to be. Even the Manchurians have been largely assimilated into Han.

Rewatch Hero, about a guy who had a chance to kill the Party, oops sorry I meant Emperor, for uniting all the different peoples in China, but decided to kill himself for the sake of social harmony.
 

Lastblade

Friend me on Facebook!,
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Posts
5,842
HK residents are delusional if they think their voice matter. It is a sh*t hole given the property (or lack of) and basically a giant shopping mall. If I live, I would apply citizenship to Australia, Canada, wherever they would take me.
 

heihachi

Krauser's Henchman
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Posts
948
If there’s one thing to like about Trump, it’s his fight against China. Hopefully his successor from whatever party keeps it up.
 

xb74

Gai's Trainer
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Posts
1,326
3rd last paragraph brings the whole problem into focus from my perspective. It's China moving another chess piece around the board against the US.

We have seen some protests here as well, though our government has not made an official statement...yet.
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Posts
44,913
Where do they go to make films these days?

HK still makes films but they're as garbage as mainland Chinese films now. Watching the old films and getting to see a Hong Kong from the 80s and 90s is a real treat.
 

Takumaji

Master Enabler
Staff member
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Posts
19,072
Apparently, the decision to introduce the new law has been postponed.

The Yellow Peril is back, eh.
 

wyo

King of Spammers
10 Year Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Posts
10,214
HK still makes films but they're as garbage as mainland Chinese films now. Watching the old films and getting to see a Hong Kong from the 80s and 90s is a real treat.

Exactly. So many classics...

Also, Cantonese > Mandarin.
 
Top