Does anyone have tips for grapplers?

[bokmeow]

I'm really starting to enjoy playing grapplers, but I'm having a hell of a time playing them aggressively, I mostly play like a scrub and wait for my opponent to pull a move that has a huge lag, and then roll in and pull off the throw. I've seen the computer rush and me and execute these throws, which is the way I want to play my grapplers, but am I correct in saying it requires precision timing and a very good grasp of distances of all sorts (roll distance, jump distance, throw distance) to become a master of grapplers?

 

[Takumaji]

I started a thread about "aggressive Goro playing" in KoF a while ago, turnout wasn't too big.

I love grapplers. I always wanted a genuine Judo-ka in a 2D fighter, but so far there is none that deserves the title, well, except for Goro and his spiced-up Judo style...

How offensive my gameplay is depends on my opponent. For ex., in a fight between my Goro and a very aggressive Kyo (most ppl I know play him very straight-forward), I just have to wait for my chance to arrive - I let my opponent do the work for me. That means that it usually takes one or two of Goro's qcf+C's and aerial grabs to show them that they should adjust their playing style or get thrown to death.

Most grapplers like Goro or Clark have some kind of rush-in attack. Goro has his hcb,f+K and, to some extend, the qcb+K roll, Clark his hcbx2+P. Use them to close in when your opponent is in a lag after a super or dizzy.

A lot of command throws/grabs have a bigger range in counters, that's why Goro's qcf+K reversal move seems to grab opponents that don't seem to be in grabbing range during a counter.

 

[bokmeow]

I see, that explains why sometimes even though Shingo doesn't seem to be within throwing distance after he pulls off his Shingo Kick, I am still able to throw him with Orochi Yashiro.

Speaking of Orochi Yashiro, he's got some nice moves. I never knew before that his forward + kick could move him within throwing distance until the past few days, I always thought after the kick I'd be push far out of range, but if I execute any of his daichi moves, even the SDM, the forward+kick moves him close enough, and immediately afterwards he executes his throw. His throws are just so stylish ^_^

 

[neojedi]

Tips for Ralf/Clark:
Argentine Backbreaker is your #1 counterattack for any opening where you might not be able to get a combo.

Examples:
vs shallow jump punch/kick from opponent, blocked or not
vs opponent landing in front of you
after blocking a combo attempt

Also, learn to 2-in-1 standing C (1-hit for Clark) to Argentine Backbreaker for a solid combo, it works in every game since '95 or '96. Follow Clark's backbreaker with the qcf+P ground hit always except when the opponent is totally cornered.

Don't attack with the backbreaker unless you are playing '94/'95 and doing that crazy f,f hop buffered into the throw. Or unless you are comboing it as with j.C/D,C(1-hit with Clark),hcf+K,(qcf+P with Clark).

Other Ikari throws:
Clark's hcf+P move is mainly a counterattack as well, to be done from a distance rather than up close. For instance, if your opponent is half a screen away and does a DP, punish them with hcf+P, don't try to run up to them and do hcf+K because they will have an excellent chance to land and first-frame DP you. The followup to this move depends on the game, some games the move gets qcf+P followup, some games you have to finish the throw with d,d+A/B/C/D where the C version gets the followup, and in 2002 where the move is counterable you want to mix up the followups.

Speaking of 2002, Clark gets an unusual but sick close range combo for that throw with C(1-hit),f+B,hcf+P,d,d+A/B/C/D. 2002 is also the only recent game where you can't use the trick (j.C/D),hcb+C(1-hit),hcb+C to combo Clark's super easily. I privately suspect that the dippy hcb+P move was added to Clark solely to weaken him.

Now if you want to jump in or run up and throw someone with Clark, that's what dp+K is for. It is faster than it looks and hard to punish.

The thing about both Ralf and Clark is that they have a lot more combo potential in the early KOF's and a lot more throw potential in the later KOF's. So in '94 I can do crossup j.C,c.A,AxN with Clark and not worry about forcing a backbreaker situation. In 2001, I have to use a lot of jumping CD's to keep the opponent grounded and contained long enough to throw them. But Clark's Argentine Backbreaker is so stupidly powerful in 2001, it is worth the trouble to set up. The combo j.C/D,C(1-hit),hcf+K,qcf+P is at least half a bar unless the ratios are against you.

Ralf has more combo potential throughout the KOF series than Clark. In particular j.C/D,b,c/s.C,f+P is bread and butter. For both Ralf and Clark (in the years he has this move), the gatling attack is best used as a combo finisher and not by itself. Clark in particular was extremely powerful in KOF 2000 because he had the combo j.D,b,C(1-hit),f+P,dp+P,qcf+P which did stupid damage and with the help of a striker only got worse.

That's my Ikari brain dump for now.

Edit: Getting back to the point in the topic (I rambled), the grapples by themselves are basically defensive except for Clark's dp+K which is essentially a cheap shot. Almost all grapplers in all games have high-priority normals intended to scare opponents into reducing their mobility and number of attacks. This creates situations in which you can throw them or in which they will do desperate attacks that result in throw opportunities for you.

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: neojedi ]</small>

 

[bokmeow]

Thanks for the solid tips neojedi, I'll be sure to try them out.

Speaking of rush in attacks, is Orochi Yashiro's rush-in useful at all? I notice that he would rush in, there'd be like maybe a frame or 2 of lag, and then he'd grab the opponent. It doesn't connect as soon as he reaches the opponent like it does with Clark's. It doesn't look like it has any combo potential, and the lag always gives my opponent a chance to throw me or give me a swift kick in the nuts if he isn't using a hard attack.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Spend some time finding the unblockables. Although not emphasized much Clark's Frankenstiener (f,d,fd) or z move and a kick button is important for that reason. And it has the elbow drop follow up making it even more deadly.