AES3-4 repair with low voltage.

kuro68k

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Hi. I have a Neo Geo AES3-4 that I am trying to fix.

I was told the fault was "only works 1 in 100 times" before it came to me. It's a 5V model, no step-down regulator. I powered it up using a bench power supply, and observed around 700mA draw. Purple screen with graphical corruption.

I measured 5V on the jack side of the T1 common mode choke, but only 3.4V on the switch side. I removed and cleaned the switch, and tried bypassing it, no change. I removed all three transistors that are part of the over-voltage protection circuit, they all tested fine and bypassing them didn't have any effect. I also tried injecting 5V after the under-voltage protection, and it still drew around 650mA and dropped to 3.4V at the 68000 CPU.

I noticed some caps looked like they had leaked, or it might have just been flux and dirty, but I removed them anyway. I'll test them at some point, but removing all the electrolytic ones them didn't fix the low voltage issue. I left the ceramics. I couldn't find anything getting really hot either.

I measured around 400Ω between the 5V and GND pins of the 68k, which seems fine. I probed around, the right side of the board is a little higher by about 10Ω, but that's the only variation I could find. I'm wondering if the multimeter doesn't use a high enough voltage to trigger the issue, i.e. it's some kind of PN junction failure that needs ~3.4V to start conducting.

At this point the only thing I can think of is to start removing chips to try to find which one has the issue, but that's not a lot of fun even with a decent desoldering gun.

Does anyone have any ideas for other things to try? There aren't many components left that can't be ruled out, beyond the chips.
 

kuro68k

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I did not replace it. I thought I ruled it out because I am seeing 5V at the connector and at the connector side of T1, but I suppose it might be worth a try. It looks like fun to get it off. There's a fair but of flux around it, like someone already tried, but it could be from the factory.

Okay, I'll try it.
 

BIG BEAR

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I did not replace it. I thought I ruled it out because I am seeing 5V at the connector and at the connector side of T1, but I suppose it might be worth a try. It looks like fun to get it off. There's a fair but of flux around it, like someone already tried, but it could be from the factory.

Okay, I'll try it.
They are very easy to remove.Just use a braid and liquid flux.
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kuro68k

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Why the 68k? Are they known to be particularly unreliable?

I'll have to source one.
 

BIG BEAR

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Why the 68k? Are they known to be particularly unreliable?

I'll have to source one.
Because it's the main processor..
They're not known to be unreliable BUT I have had to replace two or three in the past.
In the meantime,is your bios (531024) stock?
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kuro68k

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Because it's the main processor..
They're not known to be unreliable BUT I have had to replace two or three in the past.
In the meantime,is your bios (531024) stock?
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It's the stock BIOS. I have some EPROMs on order so I'll probably socket it at some point and try the diag BIOS and Unibios.

I'm a little reluctant to start by removing the biggest chip on the board. It could be any of them.

There must be some way to narrow it down. Maybe I should turn it on for half an hour and then do precision temperature measurements with my meter. The finger probe may not be accurate enough to locate the fault.
 

BIG BEAR

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It's the stock BIOS. I have some EPROMs on order so I'll probably socket it at some point and try the diag BIOS and Unibios.

I'm a little reluctant to start by removing the biggest chip on the board. It could be any of them.

There must be some way to narrow it down. Maybe I should turn it on for half an hour and then do precision temperature measurements with my meter. The finger probe may not be accurate enough to locate the fault.
I asked you about that because the problem could be the bios chip.
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kuro68k

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Thanks. The cap kit should turn up soon so I think I will re-cap it first and then decide what to do next.

I feel like I'm missing something. It's not a short, it won't draw enough current for that. I might try slowly ramping the voltage up, maybe there is some point at which the fault triggers that could give me a hint.

I spent some time going over everything again yesterday, but nothing is getting warm.
 

kuro68k

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Fitted the new caps, except for the video output ones which were too big. Emailed the supplier about it. In any case, no change.

There seems to be only one diode on this board, and RD5.6A. The two 1S1588 on the schematic for the AES3-5 don't seem to be on the 3-4. I tried testing it in circuit, got 0.6V backwards and 0.79V forwards. Can't find a datasheet for that exact part, but it's a 5.6V Zener, and part of the over-voltage circuit. It could be damaged, as when I bypassed that circuit it was still in-circuit I believe.
 

kuro68k

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I removed about 1/3rd of the chips on the board, and the voltage has risen to 3.55V. I also removed the Zener but that made no difference.

One of the chips I removed was the ROM, since I want to fit a Unibios and diag ROM anyway.

What does this mean? Seems like reducing the load reduced the drop in the supply voltage, but the supply is not current limited at the PSU.

There was some crud under some of the ICs. Not much, but some. I wish I had a large enough ultrasonic cleaner for this thing. Thinking about getting one.
 

BIG BEAR

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Do you know if the previous owner used a 9v or 10v adapter?
Looks like that could have been the case.
BB
 

kuro68k

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Do you know if the previous owner used a 9v or 10v adapter?
Looks like that could have been the case.
BB

Unfortunately I don't. If it was the case then I need to find the part that has failed. I just hope it's not one of the custom chips.
 

kuro68k

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I have now removed all the DIP chips. Voltage rose to over 4V, but is still being pulled down by something. PSU not reporting that it is at the current limit, in fact current consumption is down to around 180mA.

What am I missing here? I tried injecting 5V directly after the over-voltage protection transistor, that had the same result. It's like there is something else current limited somewhere, but I can't see what it is. The AES3-5 has a 0.18Ω resistor on the schematic, but it doesn't seem to be on the AES3-4. In any case I would have bypassed it.
 

BIG BEAR

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You mind snapping a photo of the board?
SMT's may have to be removed unfortunately.
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kuro68k

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View attachment PXL_20240331_181716535.jpg

I am aware of the broken pad on the LS05.

Once I have finished fitting all the sockets, my plan is to convert it to a 9V unit, unless anyone has a better idea. Maybe the 5V power section is bad in a way I just don't understand, or maybe the regulation so far from the board is the issue.
 

BIG BEAR

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I think somebody plugged a 9v or 10v adapter in it before you got it but yes,probably would be better to convert it over to 9v
Please keep us updated.
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kuro68k

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Does the over-voltage protection not work then? It looks like it should do the job, but I haven't simulated it.
 

kuro68k

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The parts for the 9V mod arrived, but the inductor is too large. The leads are too thick to fit in the holes.

Don't really want to drill them. Shaving them down is possible, but tricky. Could bodge it with some leads from a resistor or something.
 

kuro68k

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I dodged it and it worked! I have just under 5V now, 4.97 at the 68000... Or rather the hole where the 68000 should be.

I guess it was the reverse protection circuit all along. I'll do further diagnosis on the parts I removed later. For now I just need to finish putting sockets for the DIP parts in and then try it.

I forgot to order 68 pin sockets from Mouser so I'll have to wait for them to arrive from China if I don't want to pay the high shipping cost. Long gone are the days when RS did free shipping on small orders...

Need to figure out a proper solution for that inductor too. It's a bit jank at the moment.
 

BIG BEAR

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@kuro68k
Great.
You need the 64 pin for 68000 and 68 pin socket for what?
Break up some staples and attach them to the leads of the inductor.
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