Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

[ki_atsushi]

Where do we get these wonderful n00bs...

 

[Dr Shroom]

Sony isn't "putting the risk on fans", they're basically treating the kickstarter thing as a pre-order system.
It's 100% to prove the viability of investing FURTHER in the game and the idea of a later return after release.

There's a lot of reasons to believe that Shenmue 3 wouldn't sell.
It's a stiff series, filled with QTE segments and bad voice acting. To any corporate head, it looks like a recipe for disaster, especially given how much modern gamers say they hate things like QTEs.

goddamn your posts are shit

 

[Zapperkhan]

I wish someone would give me a 2 million 3 year interest free loan

 

[DNSDies]

It's not a fucking loan.
It's not a fucking donation.
It's payment for the products described on the kickstarter page.

Do none of you actually know how Kickstarter works?

And how the fuck is it "Sony putting the risk on the fans" if they're funding it in ANY way?
It's Sony REDUCING the POTENTIAL for risk by establishing a customer base before development.

Do you honestly fucking think Shenmue 3 is going to be made 100% with KS funds? If so, in what fucking way is Sony funding it?

I swear to god this forum is a huge circle jerk some times.

 

[Zapperkhan]

Can't tell if you're trolling or not at this point...

 

[SonGohan]

If something has been explained for you in great detail, and you still refuse to understand it, you're not just stupid; you're an asshole.

 

[Jonmkl]

It's not about the time and money. It's about making the fans prove they want it.

AKA It's about time and money. Sony isn't gonna invest it if they won't make their investment it back, as I said in my second post:

Sad as it is, it's probably the only way they know that can get them solid numbers to base their investment on.

If Sony doesn't believe the fans want it, then they won't invest much in it, and then Ys Net will not have that time and money. Also asking for "an extra million bucks" from your backer is arbitrary? That actually made me laugh. Money comes with strings attached, the more money the more strings, and big companies may throw around a lot of it, but only when they think they will make a profit. Let's not forget that the original Shenmue cost 47 million dollars to make according to Yu Suzuki, not the safest investment in a niche style of game these days.

If Shenmue couldn't support a successful Kickstarter, there is no way Sony would fund it, hence, it would never get made. So kickstarter isn't that weird of a choice, no matter how lacking in balls or scummy Sony seems as a result.

 

[ki_atsushi]

The dude has to be trolling, but I'm gonna bite anyway...

DNS, we all understand how kickstarter works except you apparently. They take your money and basically promise you all kinds of stuff. However they are not accountable if they don't deliver on said promises. Most times things are left super vague, such as the final designs of physical tier items, and if you're not happy with them (or the final product for that matter) you can go fuck yourself.

They get your money and there's very little, if anything, you can do about it.

Kickstarters are the best loans in the world. One of these days, my brothers, I'm going to make my own. If you kick me down $5 you'll have my eternal gratitude! I might even put your name on a 'special thanks' page on my obscure website that no one will look at! For $25 you'll get my product (final design will vary).

 

[MadAsgardian]

Also asking for "an extra million bucks" from your backer is arbitrary?

Except it is pretty random in this particular case, because we know the game is going to cost them more to make than they will ever take in during the Kickstarter. Whether the Kickstarter ends up at $4, $5 or $6 million is rather irrelevant if it ends up costing $20-30 million to make.

That's why I'm not a big fan of these publisher-dipping-their-toe-in-the-water Kickstarters... it's pretty disingenuous.

 

[DNSDies]

Ki,

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/attorney-general-asylum-playing-cards-crowdfunded-project/41860


Legal precedent and kicksttarter's tos do provide for recourse on fraudulent projects that do not deliver.

 

[SonGohan]

lmao

Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.

YOU are the one that has to take them to court. Legal fees up the ass for a $100 backing. Yeah right

 

[neo_mao]

Isn't marketing's job to forecast demand for a new product? I mean, in what other industry would something like this Shenmue scheme work?

So Frito-Lay is thinking about making a new flavor of Doritos...but is not sure if there will be significant enough demand. Let's start a kickstarter to get people to buy them in advance so we can know if there are people interested...

Hey Toyota is not sure there will be enough demand for the 2018 Highlander, so let's have a kickstarter where people can pre-buy the car to make sure its a worthy product worth developing...

I mean, you look at other industries and it is clear why this is ludicrous. Why is acceptable in the game industry?

I understand why a company like Sony would be hesitant to release a game like Shenmue. But that's why you hire big shot exec's who are paid truck loads of money to make these tough decisions for an organization.

If they were so skeptical - then they shouldn't touch the game and accept the fact if the game is a huge success they missed out on a good opportunity.

If they were on board - they should be all in...and should accept the fact that they could lose big on it.

But they can't play it both ways - I still think that is unethical.

 

[ki_atsushi]

I leave for a few minutes and this... LMAO

lmao

Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.

YOU are the one that has to take them to court. Legal fees up the ass for a $100 backing. Yeah right

Beat me to it. This guy can't read for shit...

 

[FilthyRear]

Do you seriously think that none of the modern 2D sprite-based games are any good?

Yes.

I prefer sprites to 3D models as pixel art doesn't age in the same way that 3D does. These "retro" releases that everyone is jacking off to is insulting to me - it tells me that what I prefer is a akin to a commodity that can be exploited for profit, bled dry, then brushed aside and forgotten like every other fad. Fuck you.

Back on topic: For however great the first game was, it didnt sell very well, at least in the US. Sony is protecting their ass. It seems like a true business decision to get the rubes to put their money down, IMO.

 

[DNSDies]

What is a class action lawsuit?
When you fail to produce for a KS, you do so at your own peril.

Also, for accusing me of not being able to read, it looks like you didn't even read the article I linked.
There is legal precedent, which makes it much easier to sue kickstarters that fail to deliver.

 

[SonGohan]

pixel art doesn't age in the same way that 3D does.

Agreed

 

[ki_atsushi]

What is a class action lawsuit?
When you fail to produce for a KS, you do so at your own peril.

Except for some of the biggest games being kickstarted, most kickstarter stuff falls into small claims court territory... and do you know what happens in small claims?

Let's just say, good luck getting your money back.

And even if it is a big game like this, the potential for multiple years of litigation (i.e. court costs and attorney's fees) doesn't make it worth pursuing for the most part.

And after all is said and done, again... good luck getting your money back.


What if the defendant sucessfully argues their case that they did everything in their power to make the project happen and it still failed? Oops!

 

[DNSDies]

Whatever, you just seem to be dead fucking set on this idea that Kickstarters are risk-free instant money with no strings attached.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise on this forum. You've made up your mind and you're welcome to it.

 

[Zapperkhan]

I thought it was a donation, why can you sue to get a donation back?

 

[SonGohan]

Whatever, you just seem to be dead fucking set on this idea that Kickstarters are risk-free instant money with no strings attached.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise on this forum. You've made up your mind and you're welcome to it.

No. What we're saying is that it puts the risk on the fans and not on the developers. Which it does, and for all the reasons your stupidass agreed with. I didn't get my product? Kickstarter doesn't guarantee anything? Well let me wait 5 years and then hire an attorney and do something about it. Yeah, sounds completely risk-free for me, the consumer.

You fucking dunce. You should feel ashamed for being so dumb.

 

[DNSDies]

No. What we're saying is that it puts the risk on the fans and not on the developers.

I would agree in this case if Shenmue was being 100% funded by the backers, and Sony wasn't investing anything into it, and the backers didn't have ANY LEGAL RECOURSE to sue for a failure to deliver on items advertised.

Here are the facts:
1) Backers assume a minimal risk in this,
2) It's a big name producer who is putting his career and name on the line.
3) There exists several legal precedents (and FTC laws) to protect crowdfunding.
4) Sony is also assuming a risk in this, as the will likely fund the lion's share of the development of this game (are you so stupid as to believe a game like Shenmue 1 even could be made today for less than $6M?)

The backer risk comes in the condition that the project fails completely and nothing is ever released, and no rewards are sent out. You did not pay for a GOOD GAME, you paid for SHENMUE 3 and whatever rewards were in your tier. You accept the possibility of it being a bad game. This is no different than buying any other game.

Sony's risk comes in the condition that they cannot recoup their investment. If nobody buys the finished product after they've invested, say, 5 million in it, they're shit out of luck. If the game is bad, and has poor sales, they're shit out of luck.

I'm not going to post any more about this. It's derailing the thread, and I think it's all around stupid. If you want to argue this with me, feel free to PM me. I'd like to honestly know what your perspective is on this and why it's so different from mine and the logic behind it, but I don't want to subject everyone else to it.

 

[ki_atsushi]

I thought it was a donation, why can you sue to get a donation back?

It's usually a donation at the $1 to $10 level, but not at the higher levels when you're promised stuff... the big thing is kickstarter takes a hands-off approach when it comes to it's clients. They basically have free reign to do whatever they want if their project is approved... and it's stupidly easy to get a project approved. Did you hear the story of the guy who got $20,000 for potato salad?

Anyways, projects can go years over deadlines (Wasteland 2 was over a year late, GCW-Zero was probably 2+ years late to get everyone their unit because they trickled them out slow as fuck... I was lucky), stuff can be left out of kickstarters (I was promised a DVD to go with this one book I ordered and it never materialized), and more people have successfully just taken the money and ran than have gotten punished.

 

[SonGohan]

I would agree in this case if Shenmue was being 100% funded by the backers, and Sony wasn't investing anything into it, and the backers didn't have ANY LEGAL RECOURSE to sue for a failure to deliver on items advertised.

Here are the facts:
1) Backers assume a minimal risk in this,
2) It's a big name producer who is putting his career and name on the line.
3) There exists several legal precedents (and FTC laws) to protect crowdfunding.
4) Sony is also assuming a risk in this, as the will likely fund the lion's share of the development of this game (are you so stupid as to believe a game like Shenmue 1 even could be made today for less than $6M?)

The backer risk comes in the condition that the project fails completely and nothing is ever released, and no rewards are sent out. You did not pay for a GOOD GAME, you paid for SHENMUE 3 and whatever rewards were in your tier. You accept the possibility of it being a bad game. This is no different than buying any other game.

Sony's risk comes in the condition that they cannot recoup their investment. If nobody buys the finished product after they've invested, say, 5 million in it, they're shit out of luck. If the game is bad, and has poor sales, they're shit out of luck.

I'm not going to post any more about this. It's derailing the thread, and I think it's all around stupid. If you want to argue this with me, feel free to PM me. I'd like to honestly know what your perspective is on this and why it's so different from mine and the logic behind it, but I don't want to subject everyone else to it.

I'm frustrated with how stupid you're choosing to act over this. Your logic is that buyers aren't assuming any risk (or minimal risk) because they can pursue legal action. Well, yeah, no shit. You can pursue legal action over anything in this country. It's also an incredibly time-consuming and expensive process. I don't have to worry about any of that when I preorder a game the regular way (amazon, gamestop, etc). In fact, I can preorder the game, it can come in, and I can still decide that I don't want anything to do with it, and get a refund with no hassle. When I preorder a game, I also have a much better idea of what I'm getting, because companies have spent time and money advertising what I'll actually get, and many reviewers have received copies of the game to give their impressions. By going through Kickstarter, you're given no guarantees, nor are you given any sort of idea of the final product until after your money has been collected. That's putting a huge fucking risk on the consumer because the company backing you isn't confident in the product to back it with their own time, money, advertising, and the many other things that go into feeding information to the consumer before they decide to spend their money.

I'm not sure what you're not grasping about all of this. You tell me what options you'd rather have as a consumer: preordering a game (with the ability to pay even a partial payment), wait a few months, collect all available information on it while waiting, and then have the option to get a complete refund. Or would you rather pay for something, in full, up-front, with no idea of what you'll actually get, and then wait years to get it, with absolutely no option to get a refund, because you weren't guaranteed anything in the first place. But you can spend 10x the amount to pursue legal action.

Stop acting stupid over this. Stop it right now. I will not PM you in order to talk sense into you. I'm already angry that I'm even typing this response to you, knowing you've probably spent years protecting your brain from vital information and reasoning that would help in becoming the smart person you deserve to be. I'd say you should start crowdfunding for a brain transplant, but you'd probably get nothing after 3 years and still think you're protected.

 

[ki_atsushi]

I've got it guys... kickstart my next trip to Vegas! I will go to Vegas and visit many popular attractions, taking photographs with any famous people I meet and compiling it in a book. I will also give souvenirs I find to the highest backers!

(What I'm really going to do is get coked up then hit the fucking strip club and get drunk and suck on some stripper titties and get my dick rubbed through my pants. Then I'm gonna get so worked up that I'll walk into the clubs, head held high and proud while I try to get in the pants of the the hottest broads that will pay attention to me. Since that probably won't pan out, I'll probably need to visit the Bunny Ranch, where I will proceed to blast the biggest nut of my life inside some dirty whore! Afterwards, if I still have money left I will drink the rest of my stay away. When I get home, I'll file bankruptcy and not have to pay back a fucking cent. Fuck publishing a book! )

 

[MadAsgardian]

I've got it guys... kickstart my next trip to Vegas! I will go to Vegas and visit many popular attractions, taking photographs with any famous people I meet and compiling it in a book. I will also give souvenirs I find to the highest backers!

Well, someone did launch a Kickstarter to fund their $5000 Kickstarter donation to Bloodstained, so...