Open Apology to Community

[cdamm]

Are people seriously blaming the victim here?

This is getting disgusting. Sure, Chamane is acting a little emotionally, but that's to be expected. He was defrauded $25,000 (plus the cost of flying someone on short notice from France to Pittsburgh...not cheap). How would you react?

Here's a fact: you don't get to rely on a "no refunds" when it involved misrepresentation. For obvious reasons our legal system's that's bullshit.

There were high pressure sales tactics here, no doubt, that took advantage of the audience. Those were a part of what occurred (in good faith or bad), but they're almost moot in my mind. The bottom line is someone was sold goods that weren't what they were told they were.

I want anyone who's blaming chamane to put yourself in his shoes. So he isn't as savvy as some of you --we don't expect people to all be razor sharp in their business tactics. Obviously a lot of people, like the OP of this thread, who were very educated, were fooled by these games that I am 95% certain were fake. They were falsely represented as being authentic and he bought in.

Frankly, if these games are confirmed fake I hope John sues whoever this DavidG character is for his money back. Lest we forget he's spent some money on this bullshit too; do did Billy.

EDIT: I may not agree with wasabi and FTL on everything, but I think this is getting out of hand. People blaming chamane should be embarrassed of themselves and deserve no sympathy if they get scammed themselves --because they should have known better

i was just saying that blame is deserved on all sides here. not being business savvy is not an excuse for making a bad business decision.

how would i react? honestly- much more privately. especially if i was planning a legal case.

quite frankly that last line you wrote about the games being 'confirmed fake' is really my whole stance. as of right now they have neither been proven real or fake. what happens if they end up being proven beyond a shadow of a doubt real? the buyers who want returns right now will look foolish. especially if david does what he says he will do and refunds the money. i could just see the pm's now- 'uh- could i have that game back now? sorry i joined the mob'.

 

[aria]

I don't think anyone is blaming the victim. Yes there may have been a few uncalled for "He got what was coming" posts, but I don't see it as blaming him. I think people are openly expressing that they disagreed with his ultimate decision to buy the game, and that there were some apparent red flags from the get go.

I'll admit I may not have the same perspective as him not being that kind of collector, and with John's report being the only source of authenticity it may have seemed like it was a sure thing. On the other hand we only had John's report to go off of, and then what seemed like pretty pushy sales tactics.

Still with that said I don't think any of us are not wanting him to get his money back.

The tone of the posts over the past few pages are very much otherwise.

 

[cdamm]

It's actually not impossible. I am seeing a federal class action, and yes, the court could obtain juridiction over a Canadian based on his actions in this entire scandal, even without him ever coming into the US. There is recent precedence. A class action would save a lot of money, and allow the buyers to get back more of their money than simply going individually.

duly noted. im not a lawyer (obviously), but thats a nice factoid to know. thanks for the correction there.

 

[Nick Goracke]

Chamane, the 5,000 USD deposit was to get "provenance" information, I assume? Maybe a phone call with DavidG, or at least his story?

If that's the case, I doubt OrochiEddie would've passed on the deal

 

[OrochiEddie]

It's funny you haven't commented on anyone else being greedy.

If I haven't then let me make it clear I genuinely think selling a single video for that kind of money is beyond the definition of greed, and using the convoluted system of selling that appears to have happened lends to it as well.

Chamane, the 5,000 USD deposit was to get "provenance" information, I assume? Maybe a phone call with DavidG, or at least his story?

If that's the case, I doubt OrochiEddie would've passed on the deal

My understanding was that buyers were privy to additional information that we were not. Chamane seems to make it seem like its not the case.
I talked to DavidG at one point and at the time it made me put this whole matter into a highly plausible category, and I'll admit I've shifted my thoughts on the matter since things have revealed to highly implausible.

The tone of the posts over the past few pages are very much otherwise.

I could see that. I may not completely agree, but I see where it's coming from.

 

[evil wasabi]

It's funny you haven't commented on anyone else being greedy.

Tonk's got an emotional vice grip on Alex's nuts so hard that he could rape Alex's gf and Alex would cry tears

of joy.

 

[Tacitus]

Are people seriously blaming the victim here?

This is getting disgusting. Sure, Chamane is acting a little emotionally, but that's to be expected. He was defrauded $25,000 (plus the cost of flying someone on short notice from France to Pittsburgh...not cheap). How would you react?

Here's a fact: you don't get to rely on a "no refunds" when it involved misrepresentation. For obvious reasons our legal system's that's bullshit.

There were high pressure sales tactics here, no doubt, that took advantage of the audience. Those were a part of what occurred (in good faith or bad), but they're almost moot in my mind. The bottom line is someone was sold goods that weren't what they were told they were.

I want anyone who's blaming chamane to put yourself in his shoes. So he isn't as savvy as some of you --we don't expect people to all be razor sharp in their business tactics. Obviously a lot of people, like the OP of this thread, who were very educated, were fooled by these games that I am 95% certain were fake. They were falsely represented as being authentic and he bought in.

Frankly, if these games are confirmed fake I hope John sues whoever this DavidG character is for his money back. Lest we forget he's spent some money on this bullshit too; do did Billy.

EDIT: I may not agree with wasabi and FTL on everything, but I think this is getting out of hand. People blaming chamane should be embarrassed of themselves and deserve no sympathy if they get scammed themselves --because they should have known better

I'm not blaming the victim. If it has come off that way, that is NOT what was intended.

I was asking pointed and sharp questions for several reasons. One of those reasons was to illustrate the fact the many of us let this hobby cloud our judgement. It helps to discuss it so that others don't make the same decisions Chamane did. Read what happened and learn from other people... I saw something similar to this happen a few years ago in another one of my hobbies and I learned a lesson then. I'd like to see other people learn it before it's too late also.

I also wanted to see what put Chamane under duress. Do I feel that Tonk's sales pitch was sharp and "shark" like? Yes, it was. Do I feel that Tonk had mens rea? No, I honestly do not. Chamane feels that he was exploited, I'm sure Tonk would feel so also, if these games are fake. Is that sort of sales pitch illegal? No, not to my knowledge.

I chose my words poorly if that is your reaction to what I am posting and for that I do apologize.

 

[kernow]

The whole mob is slathering over each others cocks, if the neo mafia was gone this place sure would be better.

 

[Geddon_jt]

Bobak is 100% right. If the game is fake, chamane and every other buyer deserves a 100% refund because it is a fraud. Period, end of story.

BUT that doesn't give him the right to blame everyone besides the SOURCE of the fraud for his problems. The fact is, I didn't defraud him, neither did Billy, and neither did Mike. Mike never knew these games to be fake, none of us did. In fact we believed the opposite to be true. It might take people time to eventually accept that. But again, its the truth.

 

[lantus360]

Are people seriously blaming the victim here?

This is getting disgusting. Sure, Chamane is acting a little emotionally, but that's to be expected. He was defrauded $25,000 (plus the cost of flying someone on short notice from France to Pittsburgh...not cheap). How would you react?

+1

Sitting here attacking the victim while another day passes with no new information from DavidG. Thats where our attention should be focused on imo.

 

[aria]

What doesn't help appearances is seeing many of the same people who defended the Source's legitimacy (because they honestly believed it) now going after chamane and blaming his haste (despite the fact he waited for the very report that so many people were pointing to in support of the Source).

quite frankly that last line you wrote about the games being 'confirmed fake' is really my whole stance. as of right now they have neither been proven real or fake. what happens if they end up being proven beyond a shadow of a doubt real? the buyers who want returns right now will look foolish. especially if david does what he says he will do and refunds the money. i could just see the pm's now- 'uh- could i have that game back now? sorry i joined the mob'.

I've crossed into the "almost certainly fake" category because of the posts by Nightmare Tony (an actual, confirmed formed SNK employee) and Kyuusaku, among others like DanAdamKOF, in The Reveal thread (many of which are in the final pages). It's become far too damning. Even if you want to set the technical/engineering arguments aside, the idea of there being non-NGF English KOF2000 home carts sounds as ridiculous as an English PS2 cart.

 

[kernow]

David needs to pop open that fat box of minty kof2ks for us to see - Which he got from working at SNK many years before it was even programmed.

 

[galfordo]

I'm going to entertain the theory (NOTHING has been proven yet) that the games are fake for this post.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

srsly dude, I am having a shit day, but this shit got a genuine LOL out of me

I owe you one.

 

[OrochiEddie]

What doesn't help appearances is seeing many of the same people who defended the Source's legitimacy (because they honestly believed it) now going after chamane and blaming his haste (despite the fact he waited for the very report that so many people were pointing to in support of the Source).

Hm.
When you put it that way I'd have to agree as well. The supporters (myself included) did heavily rely on it, and now its no longer valid.

So Chamane if you are reading this I'd like to apologize for jumping on you about it. Admittedly I have a knack for unconditional positive regard (due to my profession) and it manifested with TonKs word, and I think it kind of morphed into something else which was kind of weird. Even so, at the end of day I'm sure the last thing you really wanna read after this whole mess are people telling you "well that was stupid." So yea, sorry, and again hopefully things work out for you and your finances.

 

[cdamm]

What doesn't help appearances is seeing many of the same people who defended the Source's legitimacy (because they honestly believed it) now going after chamane and blaming his haste (despite the fact he waited for the very report that so many people were pointing to in support of the Source).

I've crossed into the "almost certainly fake" category because of the posts by Nightmare Tony (an actual, confirmed formed SNK employee) and Kyuusaku, among others like DanAdamKOF, in The Reveal thread (many of which are in the final pages). It's become far too damning. Even if you want to set the technical/engineering arguments aside, the idea of there being non-NGF English KOF2000 home carts sounds as ridiculous as an English PS2 cart.

im pretty sure the games are not real (tony's posts were really my big deciding factor as well), but the reasonable doubt still lingers for me.

Im just simply playing devils advocate. I am of the belief that mistakes were made on all sides of this current mess.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Bobak is 100% right. If the game is fake, chamane and every other buyer deserves a 100% refund because it is a fraud. Period, end of story.

BUT that doesn't give him the right to blame everyone besides the SOURCE of the fraud for his problems. The fact is, I didn't defraud him, neither did Billy, and neither did Mike. Mike never knew these games to be fake, none of us did. In fact we believed the opposite to be true. It might take people time to eventually accept that. But again, its the truth.

That's all fine and good and all, but the fact is nobody can believe just about anything right now. Like, was it the truth that you were going to buy the copies if they were fake? Were you just being funny? Are you ready to buy them back now, since you were so sure they were real? Are you being funny now? We have no fucking clue what to believe.

 

[bryan]

I have a question for the buyers.

Did you get any inside info to research, or did you have to wait for the reveal like us (more than a name)?

 

[cdamm]

I have a question for the buyers.

Did you get any inside info to research, or did you have to wait for the reveal like us (more than a name)?

THAT is a wonderful question.

 

[Decepticreep]

A couple of years ago, Tonk and I made a trade. It was a small trade, but I had sent him a game, I believe, and he sent me G2 Grimlock. It took like 2 weeks before the game reached him and USPS never scanned my DC number until it reached his house. I kept telling Tonk that I sent it, showed him scans of my reciept and DC reciept, and he accused me of being a liar and a borderline scammer. It got there like 2 days later. Call it petty, but my reputation is everything to me, so I never dealt with him after that. He gets no sympathy from me.

As far as Geddon, I feel bad for you, homie. I think manning up and stepping down is very admirable. I hope things work out for you.

 

[OrochiEddie]

I have a question for the buyers.

Did you get any inside info to research, or did you have to wait for the reveal like us (more than a name)?

If I recall it was implied that they did, maybe I'm remembering wrong, but Chamane does not make it seem that way.

 

[Poonman]

.

 

[Tyranix95]

... About your copy compared to us, you will all be able to compare when we will post the copies of it. ....

... Frankly, if these games are confirmed fake I hope John sues whoever this DavidG character is for his money back. ...

Bobak is 100% right. If the game is fake, chamane and every other buyer deserves a 100% refund because it is a fraud. Period, end of story. ....

Now we're going to get to see some pics.



----------------------------

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I still don't see the "lemon pressure"... or at least enough to make me send my money over that way by proxy.

I read that and said to myself, "If I had any doubts, I wouldn't send the money."

I was in the same boat a few months ago on this very site.

You know what I did?

I threw the brakes on the deal, did my homework, examined the risk, insulated myself against it, asked others, acted transparently to everyone and made a logical decision. I was prepared to let the "great white whale" go because my brain told me something needed to be re-examined. It worked out for everyone involved and everyone walked away happy.

In the future, do the same.

Totally agree.

 

[Renmauzo]

So how much cash did Tonk get out of this whole debacle?

If nothing else I'd be returning my cut to the victims just to wash my hands of the whole thing, and frankly: keeping your cut from a fucking scam is total bullshit.

So unlike Bobak, I suggest Tonk comes forward and starts returning his "comsission fees" ASAP instead of slinking away and lawyering up.

I know money is nice, but the great thing about it is you can always get more...but once your rep is fucked it STAYS FUCKED.
One scam can erase a thousand clean deals and years of noble actions...especially a huge scam like this.

I mean, holy fuck...30 grand per victim.....how has someone not killed you guys yet (especially DavidG)?
If someone took 10 grand from me I'd run him down in a parking lot and fuck start his head with a tire iron....and for 30 grand I'd probably go after his wife and kids lmao.

Reality is, he's probably spent enough of the money by this point that he has no idea how he's going to pay it back. It's probably why he's unreachable right now. I'm not afraid to admit that I would be terrified right now in his position, especially at the thought of having to come up with all that cash, and explaining to my family why we 'have to take out a substantial loan'. I'm sure that the prospect of relentless attacks for weeks, maybe even months to come, has him feeling defeated.

 

[90s]

Reality is, he's probably spent enough of the money by this point that he has no idea how he's going to pay it back. It's probably why he's unreachable right now. I'm not afraid to admit that I would be terrified right now in his position, especially at the thought of having to come up with all that cash, and explaining to my family why we 'have to take out a substantial loan'. I'm sure that the prospect of relentless attacks for weeks, maybe even months to come, has him feeling defeated.

It also doesn't help that he might have taken a vacation using some of those funds.
But its not too late for him to help clear this situation up.