Official NPD sales data for SNK NeoGeo's USA division (KOF00/01 & MS3 sales!!!)

Edit - Thanks for moving the thread. I appreciate it.

As some of you may or may not know, NPD Funworld is the market research firm that tracks the sales of all video game related items in the US. Each month they produce a report that summarizes the sales for the previous month. Publishers pay big bucks for the figures but if you look hard enough or if you know the right people you can find them.

Below you'll find the US sales of both KOF00/01 for the Playstation 2 and Metal Slug 3 for the Xbox. Ever wonder why Ben Herman always shys away from disclosing sales figures when he is asked in interviews? Well, you are about to find out why.

The King of Fighers 00/01 (PS2)
December '03 - 17,019
January '04 - 5,284
February '04 - 3,563
March '04 - 2,583
April '04 - 1,796
May '04 - 2,025
June '04 - 2,233
Total - 34,503

Metal Slug 3 (Xbox)
May '04 - 11,694
June '04 - 23,324
Total - 35,018

So in 2 months, MS3 managed to outsell KOF00/01 even though the PS2 has a larger install base and the game has been out for 7+ months (and one of those months was during the holiday season).

Both games managed to sell poorly though. I know it might seem like a lot because we are used to seeing only a few hundred or a few thousand carts produced but compared to the competition these sales don't stack up well at all. It's clear that the positive reviews for MS3 helped sell the game pretty well compared to KOF00/01 but it's still going to end up under performing. It will probably sell around 60,000 units in its lifetime which isn't too bad considering the small amount of work required to port the game but it isn't great either.

I'm sure that a MS Collection for the Cube could put up 100,000 units sold quite easily (which is respectable). Speaking of collections, Megaman Anniversary Collection for the Gamecube outsold the PS2 version. In 2 weeks of sales it racked up 75,102 units sold. Given a full month it will easily surpass 110,000 copies sold. The PS2 version, despite its having a larger audience and its being superior to the Gamecube version (the PS2 version had remixed soundtracks and the developers messed up the controls on the Gamecube version by switching the jump and shoot buttons) sold 66,113 copies in those two weeks. I think that the fact that the Gamecube version managed to fair better despite being vastly inferior to the PS2 version speaks volumes about the Gamecube's audience just liking old school games, even if they have flaws. Sonic Mega Collection (500,000+ units sold) and Zelda Collection (2 million obtained through various means) also did very well on the Gamecube. I think this bodes well for any future SNK NeoGeo releases on the platform, be they a MS Collection or whatever.

I find it puzzling that Ben Herman should continue to ignore a platform that would likely embrace SNK's support. Ben has often stated that it's too late into the lifecycle to make games for the system but what about Xbox? All indications point at a holiday 2005 release for Xbox 2 whereas the successor to the Gamecube, Revolution, is at least 2 holiday seasons away.

those sales arent bad for either, they are basically straight ports, very cheap, i'm sure the bulk of the cost was in advertising in the magazines. im surprised kof sold that well at all here, since next to no one even knows what it is. slug 3 is a better game, its only right it should sell more. nice to see an xbox game outselling a ps2 game when it has like 20x the userbase.

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Why does everyone keep pushing for SNK games on the GC?
There are two other platforms (PS2 and XBOX) that are already seeing SNK releases and most everyone has one of those systems, so why this constant begging for GC support?
It isn't necessary and SNK would be better off focusing on the XBOX and PS2 as it does now.

I think Mr. Herman may be playing the odds that gamers familiar with SNK games own multiple gaming platforms.....PS2, XBOX and/or Gamecube. The odds of someone purchasing all three versions of a port are slim at best. Production costs for three different ports reduces the margin for profit. And judging from the poor numbers you've provided why take that risk.....especially, if a majority of the gamers familiar with Metal Slug would rather purchase it for their XBOX or PS2. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are very many folks on this board that have JUST a Gamecube. I wish you luck drumming up support for your cause.

JFlex said:

I think Mr. Herman may be playing the odds that gamers familiar with SNK games own multiple gaming platforms.....PS2, XBOX and/or Gamecube. The odds of someone purchasing all three versions of a port are slim at best. Production costs for three different ports reduces the margin for profit. And judging from the poor numbers you've provided why take that risk.....especially, if a majority of the gamers familiar with Metal Slug would rather purchase it for their XBOX or PS2. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are very many folks on this board that have JUST a Gamecube. I wish you luck drumming up support for your cause.

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You would be surprised how many people out there own just one console. The fact is old school games or niche games, the kind of games SNK is known for producing, sell better on the Gamecube than on any other platform. I have tons of sales data to back this up too. Mr. Herman's theory that a higher install base = higher sales is seriously flawed. You have to look at the audience. You have to look at which games sell the best on each platform. If two systems both have a large percentage of users who buy certain types of games and you can only afford to port it to one system... then you look at the install base. If the people who own the system with the largest install base aren't interested in your product then you are wasting your time. You would be better off releasing the game on a system with a smaller install base but a higher percentage of people who would potentially be interested in your product.

No one is saying that there would need to be 3 versions of a game. There weren't for KOF00/01 or MS3. I'm advocating that a MS Collection should be a GC exclusive. Development costs would be minimal and the returns would be huge compared to the games that have been released so far.

JC10001 said:

<snip>
I'm sure that a MS Collection for the Cube could put up 100,000 units sold quite easily (which is respectable). <endsnip>

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LOL, thats a good one. Somehow I think the 8-12 year old market wouldn't be all that excited about an MS collection . . .

chimpmeister said:

LOL, thats a good one. Somehow I think the 8-12 year old market wouldn't be all that excited about an MS collection . . .

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This just shows how little you know about the Gamecube or the industry in general. Nearly 50% of its audience is comprised of people over the age of 18. The PS2 and Xbox both hover somewhere around 55-60%. It's a slightly higher percentage but it just goes to show that the Gamecube's audience isn't nearly as filled with 8-12 year olds as you think. Who are the adults that own Gamecubes? Many of them are the same kids who owned a NES nearly 20 years ago. They remember Ikari Warriors. They remember Guerilla War. They appreciate old school games (the sales show as much). Try again.

JC10001 said:

This just shows how little you know about the Gamecube or the industry in general. Nearly 50% of its audience is comprised of people over the age of 18. The PS2 and Xbox both hover somewhere around 55-60%. It's a slightly higher percentage but it just goes to show that the Gamecube's audience isn't nearly as filled with 8-12 year olds as you think. Who are the adults that own Gamecubes? Many of them are the same kids who owned a NES nearly 20 years ago. They remember Ikari Warriors. They remember Guerilla War. They appreciate old school games (the sales show as much). Try again.

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How about citing some proof? You pull a lot of figures out, but I don't see where you are getting them from?

JC10001 said:

You would be surprised how many people out there own just one console. The fact is old school games, the kind of games SNK is known for producing, sell better on the Gamecube than on any other platform. I have tons of sales data to back this up too. Mr. Herman's theory that a higher install base = higher sales is seriously flawed. You have to look at the audience. You have to look at which games sell the best on each platform.

No one is saying that there would need to be 3 versions of a game. There weren't for KOF00/01 or MS3. I'm advocating that a MS Collection should be a GC exclusive. Development costs would be minimal and the returns would be huge compared to the games that have been released so far.

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Ok, show me the sales data.

chimpmeister said:

How about citing some proof? You pull a lot of figures out, but I don't see where you are getting them from?

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As I said, these figures cost companies money and they are supposed to be confidential. I have my sources and I will not disclose them and risk losing access to the data. If you don't believe me why don't you just ask Ben Herman if I'm right or not.

JC10001 said:

As I said, these figures cost companies money and they are supposed to be confidential. I have my sources and I will not disclose them and risk losing access to the data. If you don't believe me why don't you just ask Ben Herman if I'm right or not.

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I rest my case. Don't post bullshit guesses unless you can back them up with proof. Seriously, it just ends up looking like wishful thinking, and is pretty sad.

chimpmeister said:

I rest my case. Don't post bullshit guesses unless you can back them up with proof. Seriously, it just ends up looking like wishful thinking, and is pretty sad.

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These aren't bullshit guesses they are facts. If you are so skeptical that you refuse to believe them then that's fine with me. I guess you're just one of those people who doesn't know the truth when it's literally staring you in the face. The fact is, I have nothing to gain by falsifying this data. SNK Neo Geo USA knows what their sales figures are.

It just so happens that I love following the goings on in the industry. I love it so much that I tend to keep track of how the companies that I like are doing sales wise each month. I'm not about to give up something I love just to win a pissing contest with someone I don't even know. Sorry, but you're not that important.

JC10001 said:

These aren't bullshit guesses they are facts. If you are so skeptical that you refuse to believe them then that's fine with me. I guess you're just one of those people who doesn't know the truth when it's literally staring you in the face. The fact is, I have nothing to gain by falsifying this data. SNK Neo Geo USA knows what their sales figures are.

It just so happens that I love following the goings on in the industry. I love it so much that I tend to keep track of how the companies that I like are doing sales wise each month. I'm not about to give up something I love just to win a pissing contest with someone I don't even know. Sorry, but you're not that important.

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I am referring to your statistics about how many people of what age own GC systems vs. PS2s or XBoxes, not the MS3 and KOF sales stats. I have no trouble believing those figures based on the niche nature of those titles.

Those age stats (of console owners) are absolute stabs in the dark, and there is NO WAY to know the ages of console owners unless they all report their ages, right? How many people send in their warranty cards and give this information? 5% of them, or less? Seriously, don't throw out stupid "facts" unless you can back them up even in some remote fashion.

chimpmeister said:

I am referring to your statistics about how many people of what age own GC systems vs. PS2s or XBoxes, not the MS3 and KOF sales stats. I have no trouble believing those figures based on the niche nature of those titles.

Those age stats (of console owners) are absolute stabs in the dark, and there is NO WAY to know the ages of console owners unless they all report their ages, right? How many people send in their warranty cards and give this information? 5% of them, or less? Seriously, don't throw out stupid "facts" unless you can back them up even in some remote fashion.

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The percentage of how many people own each console is not exact but there is a small margin of error (plus or minus 3 percent if I recall correctly). NPD conducts several surveys and then extrapolates the numbers. They get a bunch of numbers from several key markets. They don't ask every single person. That isn't how statistics work.

there is no way a slug collection would sell a 100k on the cube.

the fact of the matter is, the gamecube has the LOWEST sales of all the systems when it comes to multiplatform games. companies know this. nothing sells on teh cube except nintendo games, hell even resident evil couldn't sell.

JC10001 said:

The percentage of how many people own each console is not exact but there is a small margin of error (plus or minus 3 percent if I recall correctly). NPD conducts several surveys and then extrapolates the numbers. They get a bunch of numbers from several key markets. They don't ask every single person. That isn't how statistics work.

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Again, no proof = pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass. I can see why you wanted this moved to N&R, there are no facts to back up anything you post, which makes it all just made up crap. Seriously, stick to some more factual data if you are going to post something semi-worthwhile . . .

DashK said:

there is no way a slug collection would sell a 100k on the cube.

the fact of the matter is, the gamecube has the LOWEST sales of all the systems when it comes to multiplatform games. companies know this. nothing sells on teh cube except nintendo games, hell even resident evil couldn't sell.

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Just two quickies to prove that this isn't the always the case. I can post more tomorrow. I'm going to bed now. In short, Cube owners buy games belonging to established franchises or games of high quality in droves.

Sonic Heroes (GCN) - 400,056
Sonic Heroes (PS2) - 233,504
Sonic Heroes (XBX) - 103,665

Soul Calibur II (GC): 605,102
Soul Calibur II (PS2): 551,708
Soul Calibur II (Xbox): 389,444

chimpmeister said:

Again, no proof = pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass. I can see why you wanted this moved to N&R, there are no facts to back up anything you post, which makes it all just made up crap. Seriously, stick to some more factual data if you are going to post something semi-worthwhile . . .

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Statistics are never 100% accurate no matter what they are. But more often than not they are pretty damn close. I got the percentages from the same place that I got the sales data.

If you are shocked by those percentages then you'll be really surprised to know that the percentage of Gameboy Advance owners over the age of 18 is over 40%. Nintendo even mentioned it during their E3 press conference (they cite the NPD as their source). I believe that the GCN percentage was also reported during the conference as well. The video is probably still on the net somewhere.

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JC10001 said:

Just two quickies to prove that this isn't the always the case. I can post more tomorrow. I'm going to bed now. In short, Cube owners buy games belonging to established franchises or games of high quality in droves.

Sonic Heroes (GCN) - 400,056
Sonic Heroes (PS2) - 233,504
Sonic Heroes (XBX) - 103,665

Soul Calibur II (GC): 605,102
Soul Calibur II (PS2): 551,708
Soul Calibur II (Xbox): 389,444

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Sonic Heroes, Soul Caliber 2.....both games previously on gaming systems that were in more homes than Neo Geo.....both sequels (as in upgrades to their predecessors).....In other words they aren't ports. You'll need better examples to make your case.

I'm happy to see a Neo port - on whatever next-gen platform it may appear on. I can't back this, but I feel that there's some validity to the claim that many hardcore, Neo Geo type gamers own gamecubes. Neo Geo gamers have never been about glitz and glam bullshit as they have been about gameplay, and this is where I think the cube has an edge that they recognize. Just my opinion.

I found the numbers for MS3 on the box to be rather impressive - KOF ports .... not so much.

Interesting info.

I'm happy to see it sold reasonably well.

Of course, compare that to the "million sellers" like Halo and you can see why they probably hope to maybe sell a tenth of that.

JFlex said:

Sonic Heroes, Soul Caliber 2.....both games previously on gaming systems that were in more homes than Neo Geo.....both sequels (as in upgrades to their predecessors).....In other words they aren't ports. You'll need better examples to make your case.

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Those were just some quick examples I grabbed in response to DashK's comment that 3rd party games always sell the worst on the Gamecube. For sports games and western games in general he is correct but anything exclusive, niche, or just plain Japanese does really well (a MS Collection would meet all of these criteria). I will post the sales of some niche games this evening when I return home from work. I would have posted it last night but it was late and there are a lot of numbers to add up.

There haven't been a lot of ports of old school games this gen. There's KOF00/01, MS3, Megaman Anniversary Collection, the Zelda disc, Sonic Mega Collection, Namco Museum, Activision Anthology, Midway Arcade Treasures and... well I can't think of anything else.

You saw how KOF00/01 and MS3 sold. MMAC for Gamecube is outselling the PS2 version. The Zelda disc did 2 million. Sonic Mega Collection did a half million. Namco Museum did 800,000 on the PS2, 500,000 on Gamecube, and 400,000 on Xbox. The PS2 version of Namco Museum has been out for 13 months longer than the Gamecube and Xbox versions and it is still being sold as a greatest hit. The Gamecube and Xbox versions have, I believe, been pretty much discontinued. I have no idea how Midway Arcade Treasures sold. Activision Anthology was released on the GBA and PS2. It sold poorly on both.

For the Gamecube I should be able to post the exact sales of Cubivore, Sonic Mega Collection & Ikaruga. I have approximations for Megaman Battle Network Transmission, and PN03 (I am missing their April 2004 sales so I am taking my best guess at those by taking the average of the March and May sales).

For the PS2 I'll see if I can dig up some sales data on a few 2.5D shooters such as Gradius III & IV, RType Final, and Silpheed: The Lost Planet (for comparison with Ikaruga). I might also be able to get some Klonoa 2 and Contra: Shattered Soldier sales data as well.

If you can think of some other niche games for Xbox (I really can't think of any right now) let me know and I'll see if I can find those too.

In the meantime, here are the US sales of the Resident Evil games released this generation. As you can see, RE does in fact sell on the Gamecube. Did they sell as much as they did on PSOne? No. But what DashK fails to realize is that the sales of the series have been declining since RE3 (which showed a large drop compared to RE2). This happens with almost every series. Over time sales drop off. I've also posted Resident Evil Outbreak's sales for comparison. There is an audience for RE on both the PS2 and Gamecube. Also keep in mind that when the Gamecube REs were released (2002) the install base was only around 3 million (compared to 24 million on PS2 when Outbreak was released).

Gamecube
Resident Evil: 463,516
Resident Evil Zero: 410,872

PlayStation 2
Resident Evil Outbreak: 451,927 (Nearly 400,000 in its first month of release but hardly anything since then.)

And for the heck of it, here are a couple of western third party games that didn't sell the lowest on Gamecube.

TimeSplitters 2
PS2 264,128
GCN 213,869
XBX 213,387

Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee (a 4 player brawler)
GCN - ~400,000+
XBX - ~115,000

And here's Joe.

Viewtiful Joe - 231,899

Despite the sources question, I think that JC's point is very reasonable. It obvious that GC is somewhat a niche console- mainly supported by Nintendo Die-hard fans - but they exist in large numbers.

Good part of these players are retro/adult players. Or do you guys really think that the kids of 8-12 had a sudden love for a plumber with a moustache?

Get real. Nintendo have their 1st party killer apps, but 90% of them only appeal to the public that already knows their characters/franchises and have some appreciation to them.

The GC is clearly the only platform that you can rely for old school gaming actually. And I don't know anyone with age below 17 that have a GC. A PS2 in counterpart, most people thta I know are under 16, or adult casual and/or PC players (tired of that graphics card race), that looks the PS2 as a good alternative to play NFS:U or Hitman, as example.

Another aspect (sad but true): GC owners are starving for 3rd party games, so they WILL buy. It's even more true if it's a known franchise, like MS.