Opinions wanted- S-vid mod differences with older/newer AES's

omnedon · Jun 8, 2004

I modded my AES for Svid, using the neogeousa method, except I put it on perf board and wired it up that way. My AES is a US 02XXXX serial. The S-video out of it is VERY clean, and practically jumps out at you. :cool:

I just modded an AES for a friend here in Canada. Socketed BIOS, composite, stereo, and SVid. His AES is a Japanese 3XXXXX serial AES. The S-video output is noticeably different on his unit. The colour is just as vivid, but there seems to be some very subtle vertical lines. These lines are VERY hard to see, and I'd take a pic, but there is no way these would show up in any picture I could take.

I've read that it is normal for different revisions of the AES having better S-vid output than others. I'm going to assume that is the case here, unless you guys can say different. Any confirmation from more experienced AES modders than I would be appreciated. His unit is japanese and therefore lacks any RF shielding. Could that be factor with S-video output? :spock:

I want to make sure my friend here gets the best video quality I can give him. As it is right now, the S-vid output is a head and shouders above the composite (in colour vibrance alone :buttrock:

) I'm just a bit surprised that the difference was as noticeable as it was from my much lower serialled AES.

Jonathan · Jun 8, 2004

My AES

I own a Japanese revision 5.7, serial number 117935 AES. Does that put out great video or crappy video? I wanna get great s video too!!

omnedon · Jun 8, 2004

Can't find the link now, but I've read lower serials mean better Composite and S-vid video. Also, higher serials apparently mean better cart slots (better Phantom-1 compatibility).

I'm beginning to suspect the faint bars may have something to do with the way I grounded the stereo mod. The stereo mod is grounded to chips. Is there a better way to ground the stereo jacks?

Jonathan · Jun 8, 2004

My advice

Try checking out neogeo usa for that. They've got diagrams that show photos where you can solder the connections at the solder points under the AES motherboards--depending which revision you've got. Other than that, I don't know yet.

omnedon · Jun 8, 2004

According to the responses thus far, I'm the most experienced modder here.

omnedon · Jun 9, 2004

http://nfg.2y.net/games/neorgb/

My finding seem to be backed up in this link.

thanks for all the help.

Dean · Jun 9, 2004

Being a bit impatient I think.

Although I'm not an AES modder myself, there is most definitely a dependence on serial number as you found in that link to neogeoman's site.

As far as the vertical lines, I have found through my Turbo Duo S-Vid mods that grounding the video lines to either the stereo ground or anything but the PCB itself definitely causes interference as you would suspect. I make it a point to ground the stereo mounts and video mounts to different parts of the board to avoid that.

omnedon · Jun 9, 2004

Thanks D-Lite.

I've grounded everything to it's own ground, the 'hard way' so to speak. No daisy chaining of the ground at all. Audio left is grounded to an IC. Audio left to a different IC. Component and S-vid grounds are all separate as well. Lots of wires. :smirk:

The (very) faint vertical lines sound a lot like what is described in that linked article.

I knew there would be a difference, but I never realized how noticeable it would be in a side by side comparison. :eye:

Seems to be, a very low serial means excellent RGB or S-video, but a crappy cart slot. Higher serial means crappier S-video and RGB, but a superior cart slot.

The cart slot in my low serialled AES is noticeably fussier, and I fear it won't like a Phantom-1. In my buddy's much higher serialled AES, the carts always 'just work', but his S-video is not as good.

Too bad one can't seem have both with a home system.

Dean · Jun 10, 2004

I find that my 01XXXX US home cart system is pretty fussy with carts too. But the S-Video is spectacular on it.

If you are concerned about the Phantom-1, I would just make a supergun (or buy one). It'll run you about $200 and a 1-slot can usually be had under $100. That's about what you'd pay for a Phantom-1 anyway and it's a lot more versatile.

Spike Spiegel · Jun 10, 2004

Do a search here. Some Neos have this vert line shit going on, and there's not a god damn thing you can do about it.

To answer your other question: Older Neos have a much better looking S-vid than the new ones. However, the new ones look better if you don't plan on doing any modding at all. If you do, older the better: I've had four Neo Geos, so I know a little about them, plus I've had a lot of time to look into these matters and many more.

S-vid: older. Lines: Fucked.

Spike

JMKurtz · Jun 10, 2004

I wouldn't say that. For the 3-6 board, I've been doing a different mod and from what I can see, the picture is better. It's still not as tight as the older boards, but better.

Jeff

Spike Spiegel said:
Do a search here. Some Neos have this vert line shit going on, and there's not a god damn thing you can do about it.

Jonathan · Jun 10, 2004

????

As I said, my AES is a revision 5.7, with a serial number 117935. Which catagory does that fall under, great or crappy video?

omnedon · Jun 10, 2004

According to the table in that link, to use your words, 'crappy', Corkscrew.

It's not really fair to call it crappy, as it's still a better picture with more vibrant colours than composite.

But when compared to mine, well, mine is has a freaking flawless picture. It's 'pure' colour. It's good enough, that even though my cart slot isn't as good, I won't be parting with my low serialled one. The picture is too good.

For the 3-6 board, I've been doing a different mod and from what I can see, the picture is better

Is there a link to the variant mod somewhere, or is it a JMKurtz original?

JMKurtz · Jun 10, 2004

What is a "5.7" revision board? The boards are numbered like:

NEO-AES
NEO-AES3-3
NEO-AES3-4
NEO-AES3-5
NEO-AES3-6

If you're getting that from neogeousa.com -- they mean Revisions 1 through 4 and revision 5 through 7 in their images. Which, is misleading since the *real* board version is screened in white lettering down the right side of the board and should match one of the above.

Now, there are variances to each of the above, but they don't change the board version numbers -- they are just updated in one way or another. I think this is what !Arcade! is including in their revision list, but it's misleading. The NEO-AES can have a retro-fitted video board or converted to 9V, but I wouldn't consider that a board revision.

The NEO-AES3-6 is the one that people complain about. Personally, I like the 3-5 board the best. Great slots and great SVid.

Jeff

Corkscrew said:
As I said, my AES is a revision 5.7, with a serial number 117935. Which catagory does that fall under, great or crappy video?

JMKurtz · Jun 10, 2004

I have a couple more things that I would like to check out to see if I can get it even better -- to make it on par with the other boards. When I'm done, I'll share the info.

Jeff

omnedon said:
Is there a link to the variant mod somewhere, or is it a JMKurtz original?

omnedon · Jun 10, 2004

Great stuff! Good luck with it, as the whole community would benefit!

Jonathan · Jun 11, 2004

5.7

In that case, here's one for omnedon and JMKurtz: my AES is revision 5.7, serial number 117935. Which catagory does it fall in, great video for S vid, or crappy video for S vid? I wanna get mine S vid modded!!

JMKurtz · Jun 11, 2004

That "5.7" you keep referring to is not an SNK number. That 5.7 reference is from neogeousa.com and is a broad range that covers NEO AES3-3, NEO AES3-4, NEO AES3-5, and NEO AES3-6 boards.

Now, to know what you have, you will need to open the system and look at the right edge. You will see this NEO AES3-? number.

I tell people to never go by serial numbers, but generally, the number you have would fall into the 3-5 category (on average), which I think is the best board.

You can drop me a line at jmkurtz@columbus.rr.com if you have any questions or need help with the mods.

Jeff

Corkscrew said:
In that case, here's one for omnedon and JMKurtz: my AES is revision 5.7, serial number 117935. Which catagory does it fall in, great video for S vid, or crappy video for S vid? I wanna get mine S vid modded!!

Jonathan · Jun 11, 2004

Truly a 3-5

OK, I just checked the mother board of my AES; it's definitely a 3-5. That means it can be S vid modded, I hope.

JMKurtz · Jun 11, 2004

They all can, but yours will have a nice SVid picture without these vertical lines people talk about AND you should have good slots, so one of the top-notch systems.

If you don't want to do the mods yourself, I offer the service at a very reasonable price.

Jeff

Corkscrew said:
OK, I just checked the mother board of my AES; it's definitely a 3-5. That means it can be S vid modded, I hope.

Jonathan · Jun 11, 2004

Thanks

Thanks. I already got my AES stereo and debug BIOS modded so all that remains is the LED illuminated buttons and S vid mod.

omnedon · Jun 11, 2004

Not that he needs it, but I can vouch for JMKurtz knowing his Neo stuff. He brought an AES back from the dead that I couldn't bring back, and he did it quickly, professionally, and very reasonably.

Utterly professional. :cool:

Jonathan · Jun 13, 2004

Perf Board

What's perf board? How'd you place your S vid. project on perf board? How'd you mount it, for the record? Also, does Jm Kurtz know how to wire color LEDs into the controller and reset buttons just like Kenny? And how and where to install them in the buttons? In my AES, there's a small red LED; can that be used as a power source for the reset LED? I don't know where the 5+v and the ground terminals were located in the controllers.

omnedon · Jun 13, 2004

Perf board is a perforated board. Just a piece of plastic board with holes all through it. It makes it easier to biuld a circuit that way, and keep it straight in your mind, especially when you are new to building circuits like me.

The more experienced modders simply piggyback the resistors and caps on the chips as far as I know. Maybe one day I'll do it that way, but for now I'm happy with using perf boards. I can get the circuit on a 1" by 1" perf board, with the caps hanging off the side.

Then it's just a matter of tapping the video chip, grounding everything, and mounting jacks.

A guy has gotta walk before running.

JMKurtz · Jun 13, 2004

Of course I know how to do the mods, leds, etc... :cool:

Jeff

Corkscrew said:
What's perf board? How'd you place your S vid. project on perf board? How'd you mount it, for the record? Also, does Jm Kurtz know how to wire color LEDs into the controller and reset buttons just like Kenny? And how and where to install them in the buttons? In my AES, there's a small red LED; can that be used as a power source for the reset LED? I don't know where the 5+v and the ground terminals were located in the controllers.

Opinions wanted- S-vid mod differences with older/newer AES's

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