Best Joystick Layout

Nostromo · Jun 6, 2004

I am planning to build a joystick for a supergun... I would like to use this joystick both for Neo Geo games and also for jamma pcbs making use of 6 button layouts (like capcom's). What is the best button layout to accomodate both type of games?

Thanks!

Conrad

MKL · Jun 6, 2004

A B C D
X Y Z

(possibly with A and X slightly lower than BCD and YZ respectively)

Nostromo · Jun 6, 2004

So 'X' and 'D' are different buttons right?

thanks

Conrad

MKL · Jun 6, 2004

Nostromo said:
So 'X' and 'D' are different buttons right?

Yes, they are: the Neo Geo D button is located on the jamma connector while the light kick button (my X) is located on the CPS2 auxiliary connector.

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

Ok guys, what do you think of this layout for a joystick with A, B, C, D buttons and X, Y, Z for Capcom games etc?

Thanks

Conrad

syringe · Jun 7, 2004

Nostromo said:
Ok guys, what do you think of this layout for a joystick with A, B, C, D buttons and X, Y, Z for Capcom games etc?

Thanks

Conrad

That layout is pretty close to ideal, although I personally prefer putting the fourth button along the bottom row, because you're less likely to accidently press one of the three unused buttons when using neo games as you're not constantly reaching over them.

What types of sticks do you plan on using? Do you plan on using convex or concave buttons?

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

Well, the setup is like this:

ABCD
XYZ

it would be a bit weird to have this:

ABC
XYZD

I bought buttons like attached in the photo.

MKL · Jun 7, 2004

Nostromo said:
Well, the setup is like this:

ABCD
XYZ

it would be a bit weird to have this:

ABC
XYZD

Probably he means:

X Y Z
A B C D

But this is at variance with the Capcom layout where the punch button row is above the kick button row.

The layout I suggested is the only one that accounts for both Neo Geo and Capcom.

Nostromo said:
I bought buttons like attached in the photo.

From Excellentcom? What colours can you choose?

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

So I `ll stick with my layout

As for colours dunno, i just ordered red and yellow.

Conrad

syringe · Jun 7, 2004

MKL said:
Probably he means:

X Y Z
A B C D

But this is at variance with the Capcom layout where the punch button row is above the kick button row.

The layout I suggested is the only one that accounts for both Neo Geo and Capcom.

From Excellentcom? What colours can you choose?

Err Eeek. I forgot to account for that (going on over 23 hours without sleep lol)
I was only thinking about it in terms of ergonomics and not that it would reverse the Punch and Kick rows.

Neon_Sonic · Jun 7, 2004

I would do:

.. X Y Z
A B C D

Ignore the dots.

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

But that would mean that the kick buttons would be top and punches below, and thats not quite right!

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

One more question

If say, CPS2 uses XYZ and Atomiswave or Naomi use XYZ too.... would the connector on these for XYZ be similar across all boards?

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

People seem to be making sticks without AtomisWave support. I guess it doesn't matter at the moment with the lack of owners and all, but it'll save you time and money to include support now if you are thinking of a future AW purchase. I'm making some new sticks with this layout.

ABCD
XYZE

This layout can be used for Neo, Capcom and AtomisWave, as well as regular JAMMA.

JAMMA
ABCd
xyze

NEO
ABCD
xyze

Capcom
ABCd
XYZe

Atomiswave
ABCD
xyzE

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

What is the 'E' for?
What sort of connector do you suggest doing for the extra buttons (X,Y,Z,E)

I imagine that your joystick will have two cables? One for normal Neo Geo use, and the other for the extra buttons use?

One more thing... I was looking at the Neo Geo stick pinout here:

http://www.gamesx.com/controldata/neocont.htm

I noticed two strange things:

1. There are 2 button 'D' pins... Which is the correct one, or any can be used?

2. I notice there is a +5v going into the joystick .... I am making my own joystick from real arcade parts, I guess I dont need to include the +5v thing?

Thanks!

Conrad

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

Nostromo said:
What is the 'E' for?

One more thing... I was looking at the Neo Geo stick pinout here:

http://www.gamesx.com/controldata/neocont.htm

I noticed two strange things:

1. There are 2 button 'D' pins... Which is the correct one, or any can be used?

2. I notice there is a +5v going into the joystick .... I am making my own joystick from real arcade parts, I guess I dont need to include the +5v thing?

Thanks!

Conrad

The E is for AtomisWave support. AW uses 5 buttons. You could use the select button on a NEO stick as E but it would be kinda annoying to keep reaching over.
Any D button can be used for NEO sticks.
+5v is for Neo CD pads, you won't need it.

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

What sort of connector do you suggest doing for the extra buttons (X,Y,Z,E)

I imagine that your joystick will have two cables? One for normal Neo Geo use, and the other for the extra buttons use?

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

Nostromo said:
What sort of connector do you suggest doing for the extra buttons (X,Y,Z,E)

I imagine that your joystick will have two cables? One for normal Neo Geo use, and the other for the extra buttons use?

I'll wire the ABCD and E buttons direct to the stick. It will only feature one cable.
XY and Z will come from a kick harness, which I will construct to be universal for any game that needs it.

PM me if you are in need of any more details. I can direct you to some sites that may be of some use.

MKL · Jun 7, 2004

A problem with an 8-button stick that is also to be compatible with the joy ports of an AES or an MVS is that you'll have to use all the pins available on the DB15 port/connector:

1 up
2 down
3 left
4 right
5 A
6 B
7 C
8 D
9 E
10 X
11 Y
12 Z
13 select
14 start
15 ground

This means that when the stick will be plugged into the AES/MVS ports one of the buttons (say E), if pressed by mistake, will cause a short between +5V and ground thus smoking the board.

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

I will be wiring Select and E to the same pin as they are pretty much the same thing, so at least 1 pin will not be used. Also XY and Z will come from a kick harness. Thanks for that info MKL I never knew about blowing the board. Would you care to explain it a little further as in why it will blow? I mean there are plenty of 7 button Candy cabs which can be used for both Neo and Capcom games, how comes they don't smoke an MVS board?

MKL · Jun 7, 2004

J0e Musashi said:
I will be wiring Select and E to the same pin as they are pretty much the same thing

No, they're not the same: select (on the stick) works as coin in, so if you wire together button E and select, every time you press E you'll be inserting a credit.

J0e Musashi said:
so at least 1 pin will not be used. Also XY and Z will come from a kick harness. Thanks for that info MKL I never knew about blowing the board. Would you care to explain it a little further as in why it will blow

The microswitches of each button have two wires and one is always ground. Now if you're using all the pins of the DB15 connector, you'll also be using the pin that corresponds to +5v on the Neo port. And when the stick is plugged into the Neo port, the button that has one wire as ground and one wire as +5V will cause a short between gnd and +5v when it's pressed. And such a short is definitely to be avoided.

J0e Musashi said:
I mean there are plenty of 7 button Candy cabs which can be used for both Neo and Capcom games, how comes they don't smoke an MVS board?

Because the controllers in a cab are wired to the jamma connector of the MVS mobo, not to the joy ports (present on the same mobo).

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

MKL said:
No, they're not the same: select (on the stick) works as coin in, so if you wire together button E and select, every time you press E you'll be inserting a credit.

I was under the impression that the AtomisWave's 5th button was wired the same as the MVS's Select button. Select will not be wired to coin in as these sticks are to be used for a Supergun, which has it's own Coin in buttons. Maybe I'll have to rig up a switch for Select/E.

The microswitches of each button have two wires and one is always ground. Now if you're using all the pins of the DB15 connector, you'll also be using the pin that corresponds to +5v on the Neo port. And when the stick is plugged into the Neo port, the button that has one wire as ground and one wire as +5V will cause a short between gnd and +5v when it's pressed. And such a short is definitely to be avoided.

If I don't use the +5v at all (no XYZ to the DB15) then I should be OK no?

MKL · Jun 7, 2004

J0e Musashi said:
I was under the impression that the AtomisWave's 5th button was wired the same as the MVS's Select button.

We have to agree on what we mean with "select". I borrow the terms select/start from the Neo Geo old style sticks because when these are used on a supergun they (usually) work as coin in/start.

J0e Musashi said:
Select will not be wired to coin in as these sticks are to be used for a Supergun, which has it's own Coin in buttons. Maybe I'll have to rig up a switch for Select/E.

To me coin in buttons on the sticks are mandatory: having to get up from the couch and reach for the supergun every time I have to insert a credit sucks big time.

J0e Musashi said:
If I don't use the +5v at all (no XYZ to the DB15) then I should be OK no?

The important is that the stick has no button wired to the Neo joy port pin where +5v is.

J0e Musashi · Jun 7, 2004

I'd like to speak with you at greater detail MKL, but it's real late here now and I must sleep at sometime.

Nostromo · Jun 7, 2004

Whats the Atomiswave button layout?

ABCDE ?

Or they are setup in a different way?

"The important is that the stick has no button wired to the Neo joy port pin where +5v is."

But if I connect the joystick port to the jamma connector, I can decide not to connect any +5v to it right, and reserve it for the 'E' button. Am I right?

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