Thoughts on MGS III: "Snake Eater" ???

Okay from yet another trailer I saw today, there's no doubt in my mind that we are indeed playing Big Boss when he was "Snake" doing Black Ops stuff for the U.S. Military and eventually became "Big Boss" due to whatever we as the gamer are going to live through, but...

Ocelot appears to be apart of the Razvedka G.R.U. and tied into this... a chick who's a cross between Sniper Wolf and Kate Archer is in the middle of a Jungle... Four Mi-24 HIND-D's are carrying a tethered METAL GEAR UNIT... the year is 1964. *Just how does Kojima plan to interweave all that we know already into the past. Some things will make the original "Metal Gear" moot completely, and others still would seem to contradict MGS. ---Snake performs the "world's first HALO Jump"???

What are your thoughts on all of this? I had something in mind but it's been blown out the water now. DISCUSS...

MERCENARY X99

1964 and Mi-24 Hind Ds? I don't think so.

The Hind first saw real action in the Soviet war against Afghanistan, true they were developed before that (mid 70s). During the 60s i think Mil was still working on heavy lift choppers (mi-12 ) and others transports like the Mi-8. I'm pretty sure the Hind was Mil's first combat helicopter. Kojima has some 'splaining to do.

Either way i hope this game totally kicks ass.

Eidt: I cant wait to be sneaking through the Jungles unleashing on unsuspecting troops as i take my knife to their necks. I'm dying to jump out of a tree and break a baddies neck.

Lagduf said:

1964 and Mi-24 Hind Ds? I don't think so.

The Hind first saw real action in the Soviet war against Afghanistan, true they were developed before that (mid 70s). During the 60s i think Mil was still working on heavy lift choppers (mi-12 ) and others transports like the Mi-8. I'm pretty sure the Hind was Mil's combat helicopter. Kojima has some 'splaining to do.

Either way i hope this game totally kicks ass.

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EXACTLY!

*The Mi-24 HIND right off the bat doesn't make since. Then there's the differing versions of the M-16 Big Boss is using??? In one scene he has the correct 60's era Armalite M-16A1... then for a split second we see an M-16A2 {which came out in the 80's}... then a jump cut later he's lugging around the M-16A1 again???

---it gives me a headache. *It might have been the CAR-15, but the jump cuts were too quick to be sure, but it didn't look like the chopped down carbine at all. Ocelot's Razvedka G.R.U. uniform is spot on, though he looks Gay as hell. BigBoss/Snake looks like "Heidern" with his Beret on in one scene {complete with eye patch}... but Kojima did get the PU Telescopic sight for the AK-47 and AKM-47 correct, as that and another variant were what was issued at that time, having been the telescopic sight for the Mosin-Nagant 7.62mmx54R "Sniper Rifle" from WWII, which was basically the model 1891 "Dragoon" model customized. If he'd have had the PSO-1 Telescopic sight on the AK I'd have shit a brick, because that's 2K3 "Spetsnaz" issue right now. These are just some of the issues I'm wondering about. On one hand you've got things done right, and then on the other some seriously flawed shit.

...who's the "hottie" on the AC-130 "Spectre" Gunship that Big Boss HALO's out of into this mystery jungle? ---I'm thinking it's Laos/Cambodia and not Vietnam since the nation at that time would be engaged in the Vietnam Conflict with conventional American forces. Thus, this cat & mouse game is an interesting one, especially with the underlying message that if Snake fails "Nuclear War" will begin? Where does Gurlukovich come into this I wonder?

MERCENARY X99

MY thoughts are that I don't understand why people are posting "Your thoughts" threads TWO WEEKS after the floodgates were opened on these games.

Yea, the videos look awesome, but I think PSM had just ruined the ending for me...... (They had a storyboard ending from konami)


anyways, cool Grey Fox pic, thats MG2:SS, correct?

Mercenary X99 said:

EXACTLY!

*The Mi-24 HIND right off the bat doesn't make since. Then there's the differing versions of the M-16 Big Boss is using??? In one scene he has the correct 60's era Armalite M-16A1... then for a split second we see an M-16A2 {which came out in the 80's}... then a jump cut later he's lugging around the M-16A1 again???

---it gives me a headache. *It might have been the CAR-15, but the jump cuts were too quick to be sure, but it didn't look like the chopped down carbine at all. Ocelot's Razvedka G.R.U. uniform is spot on, though he looks Gay as hell. BigBoss/Snake looks like "Heidern" with his Beret on in one scene {complete with eye patch}... but Kojima did get the PU Telescopic sight for the AK-47 and AKM-47 correct, as that and another variant were what was issued at that time, having been the telescopic sight for the Mosin-Nagant 7.62mmx54R "Sniper Rifle" from WWII, which was basically the model 1891 "Dragoon" model customized. If he'd have had the PSO-1 Telescopic sight on the AK I'd have shit a brick, because that's 2K3 "Spetsnaz" issue right now. These are just some of the issues I'm wondering about. On one hand you've got things done right, and then on the other some seriously flawed shit.

...who's the "hottie" on the AC-130 "Spectre" Gunship that Big Boss HALO's out of into this mystery jungle? ---I'm thinking it's Laos/Cambodia and not Vietnam since the nation at that time would be engaged in the Vietnam Conflict with conventional American forces. Thus, this cat & mouse game is an interesting one, especially with the underlying message that if Snake fails "Nuclear War" will begin? Where does Gurlukovich come into this I wonder?

MERCENARY X99

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LOL, Merc you're the man. I never would have noticed all that other stuff, but helicopters (well Mil at least) i do know! But then again in the Metal Gear games the technology always has been significantly advanced when compared to our technology (especially in MGS and MGS2). Although it seems with this game they are trying to go for the whole historical cold war era feel, so i'd assume they'd do there research.

I'm really interested in why Big Boss is in wherever he is at in Indo-China. I wish they'd release a tid bit of information on the story.

*Edit: Bah where can i download the Trailer for MGS3, i still havent seen it and E3 has been over for some time.

Buro Destruct said:

MY thoughts are that I don't understand why people are posting "Your thoughts" threads TWO WEEKS after the floodgates were opened on these games.

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Well first off if the thread you are talking about is the one I'm thinking of... it became more of a "WOO HOO check out this bitchin' trailer!" thread. ---I'm specifically asking a person's opinion based off of deep thought over the material shown and historical accuracy.

AND TO CORRECT MY MISTAKE ---The first official American involvement in Vietnam wasn't until 1965 at X-RAY {what "We Were Soldiers" covered}... but now that I think about it, in 1964 there was a lot of shit going down in South America and the whole Cuban Revolution had sprang up Communist satellittes all over that region. It's possible that Ocelot {Being G.R.U. and all} is an "Advisor" to a regime in the making. Maybe Kojima plans to tie in this 1964 Metal Gear debacle to The Cuban Missile Crisis somehow?

...anyhow break down yo. Let's hear some other ideas on this.

Kpinion said:

anyways, cool Grey Fox pic, thats MG2:SS, correct?

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Yep it's Grey Fox from the MSX game "Metal Gear II: Solid Snake" alright.

@ Lagduf = "I got to see the trailer off a droog's CDR AVI file. It was downloaded from Gamespot.Com or something like that."

MERCENARY X99

MGS 3 f00king rockz.

Now,Kojima needs to get on the ball and give us remakes of both the original MG and its true sequel,MG:Solid Snake

I found the trailer at gametrailers.com but it is obviously taken from someone's handheld cam at the show. The picture isn't great and the sound is terrible. You can barely hear the music at all, but better than nothing. Merc, have you played through MGS2 yet? There's a question in my mind as to how litteraly you're supposed to take the events of the game, which might have something to do with the anachronisms you see here. Or it might not.

I think from the trailer you can make out that "Snake" starts the game believing in his country and ideals, but becomes jaded when it seems he gets left for dead by his country, and sees them make off with the Metal Gear, making them no better than the enemy he'd been fighting. Maybe that, plus the "loyalty to the end makes everything meaningless" speech from whoever the defecting woman is, makes him reassess his values. It's also very cool to see what appears to be the origin of the bond between Big Boss and Ocellot.

Or everything could be set up to give those impressions, and the game could actually be about Solid Snake in some kind of simulation or a psychogenic fugue, like in the movies Point Blank or Lost Highway (one interpretation). The more it seems like we already have been shown the entire story, the more suspicious I am.

Anyway, I can't wait.

'Snake Eater' sounds quite homoerotic.

Loopz said:

'Snake Eater' sounds quite homoerotic.

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Used snake eater panties to appear soon in a vending machine near your (assuming you live in Japan, that is)

SouthtownKid said:

Merc, have you played through MGS2 yet? There's a question in my mind as to how litteraly you're supposed to take the events of the game, which might have something to do with the anachronisms you see here. Or it might not.

I think from the trailer you can make out that "Snake" starts the game believing in his country and ideals, but becomes jaded when it seems he gets left for dead by his country, and sees them make off with the Metal Gear, making them no better than the enemy he'd been fighting. Maybe that, plus the "loyalty to the end makes everything meaningless" speech from whoever the defecting woman is, makes him reassess his values. It's also very cool to see what appears to be the origin of the bond between Big Boss and Ocellot.

Or everything could be set up to give those impressions, and the game could actually be about Solid Snake in some kind of simulation or a psychogenic fugue, like in the movies Point Blank or Lost Highway (one interpretation). The more it seems like we already have been shown the entire story, the more suspicious I am.

Anyway, I can't wait.

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This has been the most elaborated on and best post I've seen on this so far. In answers to some of your questions directed my way. #1> I have never beaten MGS 2: Sons of Liberty, I got to the fight with Fortune and called it a day when it was first released. At the time I coulnd't accept "Raiden" and dismissed SOL so much I sold my PS2. ---Now I've come back to it to make sure I'm not missing some much needed pieces of SOL's contrived story. Going to play and beat it about a week before buying Snake Eater that way he whole MGS vibe is still fresh with me. Currently I'm trying to beat the unrelated game Kill Switch.

#2.> I didn't know where that trailer originated from, but there's enough subtitled dialogue to make me wonder over the whole shebang indeed. Since the previous characters {which were not in the storyline prior to MGS on PSone} are in this outing "younger" I'm just bewildered. For all we know Colonel Campbell {not yet a Colonel} is in this too. He always knew more than he let on about things. And if by the end of SNAKE EATER it's possible than indeed Snake becomes Big Boss, then I wonder what makes Grey Fox snap later? If I remember it correctly, Grey Fox was originally the one to infiltrate Outer Heaven in the MSX and NES versions, but then gets captured, and thus the man we know to be "Snake" was sent in to finish the job for the D.O.D. ??? ---This itself would bring up the questions: A> With the events of the 1964 debacle being what they were Frank Jaeger still stayed true to the U.S. Military? OR... B> The original Metal Gear game was made possible because all of the people fighting one another at the "Cold War" level on Black Ops for America... The Razvedka G.R.U. and others all somehow became "Friends" and planned a giant hoax to take place decades later, giving them a place in the world as warriors. Meaning that Frank Jaeger/Grey Fox was supposed to get caught, so that BIG BOSS {who did not have control over his clones but knows about them} might possibly get to Solid Snake to join his regime as well?

...it's all speculation of course, but while I have some reservations about Kojima-san, the man does make it kind of cool to break all the nuances of his creation down indeed. Once I get the trailer {I'm on dial up thus downloading it makes no sense at 14 minutes long} in my hands via a CDR I'm going to read all the subtitles, and keep a keen eye open and try to piece it all together. The creation of the whole La Le Lieu Le Lo is probably right in our faces.

MERCENARY X99

Merc, I'd seriously suggest you play MGS2 now. More than once. The story makes it a different kind of animal than MGS1. What many have taken for contrived silliness, I believe is actually deliberate and a bit post modern, and you may need to aclimate. Better to start now. I was amazed how much I ended up loving the game, though. It just wasn't what everyone was expecting.

As for the La Li Lu Le Lo, I hope more is revealed. I kind of think "La Li Lu Le Lo" is maybe meant to be used in place of a real agency's name, kind of like in Kill Bill 1, where the Bride's real name is bleeped out any time someone says it. The reason I think that, is that those sylables are in the order of the Japanese alphabet (a, i, u, e, o...ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...ha, hi, fu, he, ho...ma, mi, mu, me, mo, etc. etc.), making it a bit Japanese-centric for an American or international agency.

One thing that's not in the trailer, but was in the playable demo at the show is a bit of dialogue. In the trailer, there's a part where over the radio, the commander tells Snake that 'if he fails, it will mean World War III', while the tac support girl looks on and they nod to each other. In the actual game, that dialogue comes at a different place, and what they are actually saying in that cut scene is something like:

Snake:"I'll be back in time for dinner."
Commander:"If you don't make it to the pick up site on schedule, you'll be eating dinner, breakfast, and all your meals for the rest of your life in the jungle." at which point, the commander and the tac support girl look at each other, nod and smille. Maybe not his exact words, but as best as I can remember after only seeing the demo once. Anyway, I think it sets 'Snake' up for being betrayed and left behind later. I can't wait for this game. Did I say that already?

After reading your post about how "Snake" is using a 1960's model of the M-16, then an 80's model, something occured to me. What if the beginning of the game deals with Big Boss's possible betrayal, and his lost of his patriotism. Then, the latter part of the game deals with his setting up Outer Heaven, which most likely would have taken place sometime in the 80's. Although he would have been peretty old then...

Who knows? Kojima isn't saying anything. Although I have heard he said there will be a huge plot twist within the first 10-20 minutes of the game.