exit plan

The plan suddenly being talked about in London may be more than promise.
Who the hell is going to pick up the pieces of this god damned mess.
Leave the Iraqis fight it out in a civil war.
How fucking smart are we ??

Let the iraquis alone.

Let them fight their civil war alone.

Let them starve alone.

They cannot be considered human beings with all that shit they do. Even my pets are more educated than those scumbags.

Yeah, they don't cut other people throats too.

I take an exit plan every morning like clock work.

But seriously, the country is fucked all to shit, and I don't think there is ANYTHING we can do to fix it. At first I thought handing it over to the UN would calm things down, but I don't think the terrorist fucks will settle for THAT either. I thought the problem was 'it's America,' but I don't really see that anymore. Hell, they kidnapped Japanese people and ALL they are there to do is FIX shit. How fucked up was that? We should have left them to rot, as their wonderful Islamic neighbors were, under Saddam Hussein. Everyone agrees Saddam was a cluster fuck bitch, yet no one wanted to DO anything about it, the US sees black gold, and they jump on it.

Hell, maybe the neighbors knew what would happen so they left it alone? He may have been a cunt, but at least he had control. We can't control the Iraqis the way Saddam did because we are 'better' than Saddam's people, but the only way to control them is to make them FEAR us. It's a lose/lose situation.

At this stage, we can't consider exiting, but htere's little doubt at this stage we need an exit plan to fall back on. The Bush Adminitration has so fucked up this war that it is unlikely the Iraqi people will trust our current government administration (as muchy of the world views specifically our current leaders as the problem).

Atrophyed said:

Let the iraquis alone.

Let them fight their civil war alone.

Let them starve alone.

They cannot be considered human beings with all that shit they do. Even my pets are more educated than those scumbags.

Yeah, they don't cut other people throats too.

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Thus spake ignorance.

You blame 22 million for 22,000? (and that's a high estimate) That's being silly.

The "Coalition of the Willing" fucked it up, now it better turn into the "Coalition of Fixing Shit they done Fucked up".

Saddam maintained control by brutally murdering people who gave any indication that they didn't like the way he did things. That's control, but I seriously doubt that the people of Iraq believe that it's the right way to live.

Anyway, this thing is just going to take some time. It's certainly a mess, but still isn't hopeless at this point. I don't see us exiting anytime soon - either president that takes office in 2005 will continue to support operations in Iraq. Maybe the British will bail after awhile, I don't know - but I haven't heard anything about that yet either.

jethrek said:

At this stage, we can't consider exiting, but htere's little doubt at this stage we need an exit plan to fall back on. The Bush Adminitration has so fucked up this war that it is unlikely the Iraqi people will trust our current government administration (as muchy of the world views specifically our current leaders as the problem).

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I think an exit plan is a good idea - it's always good to have some sort of way out. I don't think it's probable at this point, but you should always have options.

And sure, many world leaders don't like the current administration - but that's not necessarily because we dump on their selfless philanthropy. A lot of these guys have ulterior motives, and tend to pout when our interests don't serve them.

"A lot of these guys have ulterior motives, and tend to pout when our interests don't serve them."

With all respect Galfordo, isnt that the pot calling the kettle black ?

It was all SO predictable. Did everyone really think that everything would be hunky dory as soon as Saddam was overthrown? It is all very messy, and there is no easy way out for anyone. IMO the US and UK are probably happy taking all the oil, so they aren't going to leave anytime soon, but the US policy towards Israel is alienatring all potential allies in the Middle East (like Jordan).

Elections are coming up in the US and UK, so we will see if a "regime change" in the west will change anything. somehow I doubt it. In the UK the 2 largest parties both supported the war. I think the only thing that will swing it is if there are more large scale terrorist attacks (like in Spain).

ttooddddyy said:

"A lot of these guys have ulterior motives, and tend to pout when our interests don't serve them."

With all respect Galfordo, isnt that the pot calling the kettle black ?

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amen to that. Operation "Iraqi Freedom" my buttcheeks. How about "Operation Get the Oil"?

Bobak said:

Thus spake ignorance.

You blame 22 million for 22,000? (and that's a high estimate) That's being silly.

The "Coalition of the Willing" fucked it up, now it better turn into the "Coalition of Fixing Shit they done Fucked up".

Click to expand...

Ignorance ? Open your eyes for Christ sake !

The first thing they teach their kids to say is "I hate America" .
I'm pretty sure they aren't only 22,000 kids or Iraquis who are saying that everyday.

All I can agree with them is the fact they have been invaded. Nobody likes it.
They should be grateful enough the americans already got rid of their evil leader Saddam Hussein.

It now seems they loved him more than they showed the world in the past. Pfff

Atrophyed said:

The first thing they teach their kids to say is "I hate America" .
I'm pretty sure they aren't only 22,000 kids or Iraquis who are saying that everyday.

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Only in since Gulf War 1 (before that it was "I hate Iran"). That's because of the embargo we put on Iraq and the starvation it caused.

However, to think that its really accepted as truth is completely, totally missing any interview with the majority of Iraqis, or the comments of some of the troops coming back.

The attitude of the average Iraqi is "Well, it sucks that we had Saddam, it sucks that the US is here now causing more problems, however its better than the chaos we'll have if they leave... I don't know what I want other than to live without fear of getting killed and have a job."

Here's a strong counterpoint:
Iran is where, for the last 25 years, the people have been taught "American is the Great Satan", yet any interview with the Iranian people over the last 10 years would dig up a healthy distrust of the Islamic party line. In fact the great majority of Iranians appreciate American culture and would welcome normalized relations. Of course, according to your simplistic criteria, we should toss all that out because of one "slogan" of the theocratic regime.

Counterpoint 2: I bet you could say the same thing about Cuba and the Cuban people.

Generalized assumptions are both silly and unhealthy for decisionmaking. It's what led the US to believe they'd be welcomed as liberators by everyone once they stormed into Iraq...

Atrophyed said:

Let the iraquis alone.

Let them fight their civil war alone.

Let them starve alone.

They cannot be considered human beings with all that shit they do. Even my pets are more educated than those scumbags.

Yeah, they don't cut other people throats too.

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what?????
Rui, are you serious...or tonite are just high?

this is war, man
making difference between torturing or cutting throats is just silly, IMO
you're blaming a whole people (most of what is just suffering) for individuals

anyway
I'm honest and say I don't have any fucking clue what the best decision will be at the moment
things got so fucked up, that making any possible theory is a goddamned hard task