E3 2004 - most disconcerting yet?

Anybody seen a good game that doesn't have a number attached to the end?

The most news on "innovation" I've seen are on a system with a second screen to display maps...

I dunno, maybe once the franchise gang-bang dies down, there'll be some more news on "new" stuff, but...

(And for perspective, I've been studying all day so, naturally, I'm in a bad mood)

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing.

Aside from Halo 2, the new Zelda, (of course, which are both sequels) and the portable wars, this is a truly weak show.

The lean third and fourth years of a given console generation are usually like this. Lots of filler, companies hedging their great big ideas for the next set of hardware. I really want to check out the Nintendo DS, but other than that, I think I picked a really good year to skip the show. Halo 2 will be a truly new experience for me, as will everything else since I won't be 'peeking at my presents' as usual this year.

Did they show anything on Fable?

Zeekade Zarathos said:

Did they show anything on Fable?

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Yeah, there are a couple new movies up at gametrailers.com. Gameplay if I remember right.

The non-cartoon Zelda is enough for me.

The Washington Post made a similar point in a recent article. Basically Game Sales are flat after many consecutive years of growth. The costs of producing and promoting a game are making it diffcult for publishers to make money, hence they are less willing to "roll the dice" on a new title.

Personally, I do not think we will see many new innovative titles until online distribution of games becomes mainstream (maybe 5 years from now). If companies could cut out the middleman and secondhand game market through distributing the game exclusively online for the first 4-5 months, then they might be willing to try new ideas.

Hell, I'm excited from this E3 if only for Sony announcing their plan to extend console life spans from the now traditional 6 years to 10. Give developers time to learn to push the boundaries of the system. I think that's going to let us see some innovation, rather than having developers come out with a halfway decent title followed by their struggling to deal with new hardware all over again. Games don't have to look or sound any better IMO, they need to play better -- and this will encourage that.

And then there's Metal Gear. Honestly, when the first trailer came out for MGS2 however many years ago now, I thought it looked great, but I was only moderately excited...but this game... I'd pay $50 for the trailer and the playable demo at the show. Really.

The only negative things about the show for me are the region lockout on PSP, and the fact that no matter how cool it's going to be, Nintendo DS is going to help speed the death of 2D.

It's been like that for years... what else is new? I personally believe this has been going on since the Playstation years. We do get original games that pop out of nowhere once in a while. We just start to notice it when websites and gaming magazines rave about it after it's release... usually not at E3.

Once original game I'm looking forward to is Crimson Tears. I'm afraid of the Dream Factory curse, though.

I don't know about you people but I could walk out of that show with more games I'd want to play than I have time to play them.

Sudeki
Psi-Ops
Fable
Kameo
StarCraft: Ghost
Call of Duty
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent
Jade Empire
Conker

...plus about a couple dozen more games with "a number attached at the end" that I'm excited about. This looks like an exciting year to me, and I only own an Xbox.

Sounds like you need to unplug from FFXI for just a bit Nick.

SouthtownKid said:

Hell, I'm excited from this E3 if only for Sony announcing their plan to extend console life spans from the now traditional 6 years to 10. Give developers time to learn to push the boundaries of the system. I think that's going to let us see some innovation, rather than having developers come out with a halfway decent title followed by their struggling to deal with new hardware all over again. Games don't have to look or sound any better IMO, they need to play better -- and this will encourage that.

And then there's Metal Gear. Honestly, when the first trailer came out for MGS2 however many years ago now, I thought it looked great, but I was only moderately excited...but this game... I'd pay $50 for the trailer and the playable demo at the show. Really.

The only negative things about the show for me are the region lockout on PSP, and the fact that no matter how cool it's going to be, Nintendo DS is going to help speed the death of 2D.

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Lots of good points there... I have been thinking the same thing. Long life spans really allow developers to push a system; the PC generation (always chasing upgrades) is unsustainable and allows for sloppy programming. Also maybe teams will need less people once they get to grips with the technology... if new tech is coming out every few years they will always be chasing.

PSP region lockout sucks big time... IMO region lockout promotes piracy! In order to play jap imports on my PS2 I need to get it chipped, the same chip allows me to play copied games and in finding out about the chip you come across places where you can download the stuff for free. Obviously the "of america" and "of Europe" sides of the business need to protect their revenue but I think the people who import are in the minority and they are the same people that would have access to piracy... Anyway - hope the DS does not have lockout.

2d... Man... 2d... Its a style of gaming with its own stregnths and weaknesses... When will people realise that not EVERY game needs to go 3d... 2d is becoming a dieing artform, its a real shame. Although I like 3d games keep 3d for things its good at like racing, fps etc, not for PLATFORMS... Man 3d platforms... Lets not get started on that.

To add a point of my own; although I am very excited about the DS and the PSP I DONT want to see Wario Ware DS or Puzzle Bobble DS/Puzzle Bobble PSP etc... Is it me or do manufacturers see new hardware as an excuse to churn out the same game on a different format? I don't want to play exact ports of Final Fantasy CC, Gran Turismo or MGS on a handheld; spend your time on a different version of the game. I am worried that the new 3d handhelds will mean we get the same games appearing across all formats, Xbox/GC/PS2/DS/PSP... That ultimatly means LESS choice.

But its all exciting all the same.

Magician said:

Sudeki
Psi-Ops
Fable
Kameo
StarCraft: Ghost
Call of Duty
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent
Jade Empire
Conker

...plus about a couple dozen more games with "a number attached at the end" that I'm excited about. This looks like an exciting year to me, and I only own an Xbox.

Sounds like you need to unplug from FFXI for just a bit Nick.

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Brilliant show for Nintendo fans (blah, GC has had plenty of original games, and I'll bet there's plenty of you who missed out on Pikmin, Viewtiful joe, etc, but I feel fine when E3 shows me more Zelda, more Metroid, and more Resident Evil 4))

Hell, most of the board knows I'd take Sony over MS any day, but even Microsoft's showing (which was pretty much doom 3 and Halo 2) was better than Sony.

jethrek said:

Hell, most of the board knows I'd take Sony over MS any day, but even Microsoft's showing (which was pretty much doom 3 and Halo 2) was better than Sony.

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IF you like FPSs, which I don't. At all. Otherwise you have outrun (which was great), and that's about it. For me, Konami's booth alone pretty much killed MS's showing, although Silent Hill will appear also on X-Box, and MGS seems likely to make it next year some time. Until then, no contest. Other than the launch title Jet Set Radio Future, MS has yet to release an exclusuve title I care at all about (I'd like to try Ninja Gaiden, but no burning desire). Of course, for FPS fans, I'm sure the exact opposite is true.

SouthtownKid said:

IF you like FPSs, which I don't. At all. Otherwise you have outrun (which was great), and that's about it. For me, Konami's booth alone pretty much killed MS's showing, although Silent Hill will appear also on X-Box, and MGS seems likely to make it next year some time. Until then, no contest. Other than the launch title Jet Set Radio Future, MS has yet to release an exclusuve title I care at all about (I'd like to try Ninja Gaiden, but no burning desire). Of course, for FPS fans, I'm sure the exact opposite is true.

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I'm still going through a lot of backmovies, and I'm no FPs fan (at least, no more than any other genre, and I've been an open detractor of Halo for ages).

There wer e af ew other Ms titles shown in depth that definitely gave a mroe interesting show than "more MGS, and more Gran Turismo...not that Snake Eater doesn't look cool...but the biggest thing around E3 for me would probably be DMC3 for Sony.

any hot chicks there?

jethrek said:

Hell, most of the board knows I'd take Sony over MS any day, but even Microsoft's showing (which was pretty much doom 3 and Halo 2) was better than Sony.

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You forgot EA finally seeing the light and going Live.
I have two words for you: Forza Motorsport. And there are the usual games with numbers attached at the end- Out Run 2, Half-Life 2, Halo 2, Doom 3, Midway Arcade Treasures 2...

Eh...having read this article, and hearing Doom 3 sucks, I'm suddenly more interested in Sony's offering.

I mean, if it only comes down to Halo 2, i'll take the next MGS...

also, MS is starting to tout their ability to clone the competition again. I seriously see gaming going the way of other MS markets such as OS's, Word Processors, etc with this crap.

http://www.spong.com/x?art=6694

Oh well, off to keep reading articles.

You forgot EA finally seeing the light and going Live

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If you want to play EA's shitty games, I guess so...

jethrek said:

Eh...having read this article, and hearing Doom 3 sucks, I'm suddenly more interested in Sony's offering.

I mean, if it only comes down to Halo 2, i'll take the next MGS...

also, MS is starting to tout their ability to clone the competition again. I seriously see gaming going the way of other MS markets such as OS's, Word Processors, etc with this crap.

http://www.spong.com/x?art=6694

Oh well, off to keep reading articles.



If you want to play EA's shitty games, I guess so...

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Read this and my heart stopped for a second, and then I realized they were talking about Doom 3 on XBox.

Well of course it's going to be choppy, that shit needs a PC.

JHendrix said:

Read this and my heart stopped for a second, and then I realized they were talking about Doom 3 on XBox.

Well of course it's going to be choppy, that shit needs a PC.

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I must confess, JHendrix..

I recently dumped PC's for MAC's

I mean, I never crash anymore. Software support may be sketchy, but what there is tends to be 100X better. It's great. =D

But...

anyone who thinks doom 3 is gonna suck, needs to have their head checked. Carmack invented the fucking FPS genre, and started almost every damn trend for those games as well. doom 3 will probably innovate yet again.

as for no good original games at E3, it's been like this since the PS2 came out, the games that make money are established frsnchises, why would they risk losing money on a new title, when they know all the old ones will still sell.

nintendo is the worst offended of this, 9 out of 10 games on the GC that are good are all old titles, zelda, metroid, mario, smash brothers, resident evil (even tho it's capcom), sony does the same thing with the PS2 as well, the only reason xbox isn't like this yet, is because the system hasn't been out that long, so it still has original games coming out for it.

DashK said:

anyone who thinks doom 3 is gonna suck, needs to have their head checked. Carmack invented the fucking FPS genre, and started almost every damn trend for those games as well. doom 3 will probably innovate yet again.

as for no good original games at E3, it's been like this since the PS2 came out, the games that make money are established frsnchises, why would they risk losing money on a new title, when they know all the old ones will still sell.

nintendo is the worst offended of this, 9 out of 10 games on the GC that are good are all old titles, zelda, metroid, mario, smash brothers, resident evil (even tho it's capcom), sony does the same thing with the PS2 as well, the only reason xbox isn't like this yet, is because the system hasn't been out that long, so it still has original games coming out for it.

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doom 3 sucks on X-Box. The PC version could be great.

As for Nintendo being an offender, 3 of the best reasons to own a GC are:

Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, and Viewtiful joe.

But I get the feeling you missed out on those.

X-Box is already like that anyway, ie. Halo 2.

SouthtownKid said:

Hell, I'm excited from this E3 if only for Sony announcing their plan to extend console life spans from the now traditional 6 years to 10. Give developers time to learn to push the boundaries of the system. I think that's going to let us see some innovation, rather than having developers come out with a halfway decent title followed by their struggling to deal with new hardware all over again. Games don't have to look or sound any better IMO, they need to play better -- and this will encourage that.

The only negative things about the show for me are the region lockout on PSP, and the fact that no matter how cool it's going to be, Nintendo DS is going to help speed the death of 2D.

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I'm really not sure that extending the life of a console promotes innovation. the only games that come out now for the PS1 are.. actually, I don't know any, which says a lot about how good/innovative they probably are. the PS1 is what, 8 1/2 years old now? I can't even name any games for it which have come out in the last couple of years. Also, the way games are currently published doesn't support this.

I don't think the nintendo DS will be the death of 2D. I think developers and publishers will begin to realise that there is still a significant amount of demand for 2D games.

I'm not very impressed with PSP. sure, it seems powerful, and the screen looks good, but the controls look poor for 3D games, that regional lockout exists is arse, and 2 1/2 hour battery life!!!!!!!

jethrek said:

doom 3 sucks on X-Box. The PC version could be great.

As for Nintendo being an offender, 3 of the best reasons to own a GC are:

Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, and Viewtiful joe.

But I get the feeling you missed out on those.

X-Box is already like that anyway, ie. Halo 2.

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pikmin isn't my type of game even if it's good, viewtiful joe is on PS2 now so that is no longer a reason to "own a GC", and wasn't eternal darkness just an alone in the dark/resident evil clone?

son_of_bael said:

I'm really not sure that extending the life of a console promotes innovation. the only games that come out now for the PS1 are.. actually, I don't know any, which says a lot about how good/innovative they probably are. the PS1 is what, 8 1/2 years old now? I can't even name any games for it which have come out in the last couple of years. Also, the way games are currently published doesn't support this.

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I have no idea at all what you mean by this. No offense, but are you purposely being dense? I ask, because sometimes people are being sarcastic and I don't pick up on it. If so, I'd hate to insult you. The reason no good games are currently being developed for PS1 is because everyone is developing for PS2. In turn, if a PS3 is released, people will stop developing for PS2. Some of most systems' best games come from the latter half of their life cycle, like MGS for PS and Zelda OoT for N64. The longer the developers have to work with a hardware, the more they can get out of it (for example, was R4 better than the original Ridge Racer? Allowing for personal preference...yes. More cars, more tracks, better graphics, etc.). Learning to program for new hardware costs more, and more time is needed to learn to use it. Having to shell out to buy new hardware less often is a bonus for consumers also. I'm perfectly satisfied with the graphic and audio level of the current consoles. I won't have any idea how badly they actually suck until new consoles are released. In the meantime, I'm blissfully unaware, so I'd like them to concentrate on trying to innovate or create better playing games.

son_of_bael said:

I don't think the nintendo DS will be the death of 2D. I think developers and publishers will begin to realise that there is still a significant amount of demand for 2D games.

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I didn't say it would be the death, but it will accelerate it. When Nintendo shows you a 2D Mario game filled with 3D elements, that should be a hint to you. Over the past years, developers have shown more and more interest in developing 3D, and less 2D. It's what sells to the mainstream audience, for better or worse. I see no sign of that trend reversing.

Also, as has been said in a bunch of other threads by many other people, the PSP's 2 1/2 hour battery life relates to watching movies -- much the same as many portable DVD players now. The battery life for playing games is much longer.

DashK said:

pikmin isn't my type of game even if it's good, viewtiful joe is on PS2 now so that is no longer a reason to "own a GC", and wasn't eternal darkness just an alone in the dark/resident evil clone?

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Pikmin stands though, it's a great game with original gameplay.

Would a game like Viewtiful Joe have been able ot launch on PS2 if not for its GC launch? Doubtful, and it coming to Ps2 doesn't hurt its case as a new, original game when it launched.

And Eternal Darkness was far more than a mere clone. Given it's only 13 bucks at Gamestop right now, go pick up a copy.

When Nintendo shows you a 2D Mario game filled with 3D elements, that should be a hint to you.

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i'll take 2d gameplay with 3d graphgics. Viewtiful Joe rocked, and the new Mario looks awesome.