Rumsfeld Responsible for Iraqi Prisoner Mistreatment

slerch666 · May 7, 2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3692507.stm

I say sack the bitch.

I've gone against my policy of not starting political threads, but in this rare instance I have to say I'm pretty pissed about the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners and this CUNT not being held responsible for it. It's no wonder the Iraqi's don't want us there. Our senior leaders are uncaring fucks and hold no responsibility for their actions and stupidity.

Bush is a cunt as well.

There have been calls for Mr Rumsfeld to be sacked, but the president said his defence secretary was an important part of the Cabinet and would remain in his post.

What more needs to be said? The war was a joke and our administration is a joke.

dragonwillow · May 7, 2004

Whoops, he fucked up.
LOLX.

And this is far more serious than Trent Lott.

DevilRedeemed · May 7, 2004

I'm watching te hearing right now. Did I hear right? Rumsfeld has a 15 million dollar bounty on his head?

jethrek · May 7, 2004

Do we really need 4 more years of this scandalous bullshit?

Kazuki Dash · May 7, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
I'm watching te hearing right now. Did I hear right? Rumsfeld has a 15 million dollar bounty on his head?

15...million...dollars...
hmm, that'd by a lot of NEO stuff...

and it's not like anybody would really miss this guy right..?

dragonwillow · May 7, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
I'm watching te hearing right now. Did I hear right? Rumsfeld has a 15 million dollar bounty on his head?

You're fucking kidding... what do you mean 15 million dollar bounty? Who set it?

slerch666 · May 7, 2004

I think the bounty is the one Al Qada set on several key people, including Paul Bremer and Koffi Ananon (or however you spell their names).

JHendrix · May 7, 2004

I still don't see a reason that Rumsfield should be fired because of this. That's taking the issue and making it overly political.

The military is doing its job of punishing the soldiers responsible for these atrocities.

slerch666 · May 7, 2004

I don't know that I'd say that's making it overly political.

With the 9-11 Commission, had they found one person in particular 'guilty' of knowing more and letting it happen, do you think they would have accepted 'whoops, my mistake, sorry' as an answer? No. As far as I am concerned this holds as much political weight as what the 9-11 Commission would, with a more direct impact on our international policy. Instead of looking like we accept it. If Rumsfeld is guilty, there should be some punishment. Maybe letting him go is too much of a price to pay, but then again, maybe not.

JHendrix · May 7, 2004

slerch666 said:
I don't know that I'd say that's making it overly political.

With the 9-11 Commission, had they found one person in particular 'guilty' of knowing more and letting it happen, do you think they would have accepted 'whoops, my mistake, sorry' as an answer? No. As far as I am concerned this holds as much political weight as what the 9-11 Commission would, with a more direct impact on our international policy. Instead of looking like we accept it. If Rumsfeld is guilty, there should be some punishment. Maybe letting him go is too much of a price to pay, but then again, maybe not.

This is a few renegade soldiers doing bad shit, this is not Rummy ordering this to go on. He found out, he's doing his job to correct it, I just don't comprehend the fact that he should resign because people under him took actions against his policies.

galfordo · May 7, 2004

Witch hunt #63, your order is ready. Drive through, thank you, have a nice day.

slerch666 · May 7, 2004

JHendrix said:
This is a few renegade soldiers doing bad shit, this is not Rummy ordering this to go on. He found out, he's doing his job to correct it, I just don't comprehend the fact that he should resign because people under him took actions against his policies.

How about this, if they don't give the fuckers that did this shit hard time/life in prison/25+ yrs brig time or something equally as bad, then Rumsfeld should resign. He's accepted 'responsibility' for it, so there should be some punishment for him, not just 'you bad boy, here's that huge salary you get and a slap on the wrist.' He's accepted blame, so something NEEDS to be done. It's like having a kid that acts out, but instead of giving them real consequences you simply say 'that was bad' and leave it at that.

galfordo · May 7, 2004

slerch666 said:
How about this, if they don't give the fuckers that did this shit hard time/life in prison/25+ yrs brig time or something equally as bad, then Rumsfeld should resign. He's accepted 'responsibility' for it, so there should be some punishment for him, not just 'you bad boy, here's that huge salary you get and a slap on the wrist.' He's accepted blame, so something NEEDS to be done. It's like having a kid that acts out, but instead of giving them real consequences you simply say 'that was bad' and leave it at that.

I'm not sure about life in prison, since we don't even give murderers that over here. They should be punished though, but I'm not really sure what that punishment should be at the moment.

Something will be done, but if you know anything about the legal system, you know how painfully slow the process of convicting a criminal can be. You have to just give it some time - the wheels of justice turn slowly (understatement of the century).

slerch666 · May 7, 2004

But do you also not agree that Rumsfeld should be punished as well? He's said it was his fault, so we know who to 'blame,' but if there is no punishment for him, what's the point?

jethrek · May 7, 2004

How about this facotring in:

The private contractors are not court-martialable, and it's very difficult to take legal action on them sicne they'r ein Iraq, not working for our government directly. These guys could get off with NOTHING if the companies that pay them decide so.

aria · May 7, 2004

I actually think firing Rumsfeld is a little over the top. Besides, I previously heard a few rumblings that Bush may do it anyway when he starts putting together a new cabinet (sort of a martyr for his re-election).

As a half-joke: why not hand over the offending soldiers to the Iraqis as a peace offering

Actually, its all really sad, it ends up one of the people in those photos was release soon afterwards because he hadn't done anything nor been involved in the resistance! Why was he arrested? The military set up a checkpoint, so he left the car he was a passenger in and the military apprehended him under suspicion of being an insurgent. I'm not saying he was smart to do it, but boy-oh-boy did he not deserve the torture we served him.

The US had its opportunity to prove it was better than Saddam's regime:
Mission Failed.

People will whine "oh that's not fair", well that's life. We failed the hearts and minds campaign. I don't think there's any way we'll win it now. All it took was a major breakdown of authority leading to an atrocity and that's what we got.

It makes me think of the last line in Animal Farm (one of my favorite books): "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Metal Slug · May 7, 2004

slerch666 said:
How about this, if they don't give the fuckers that did this shit hard time/life in prison/25+ yrs brig time or something equally as bad, then Rumsfeld should resign. He's accepted 'responsibility' for it, so there should be some punishment for him, not just 'you bad boy, here's that huge salary you get and a slap on the wrist.' He's accepted blame, so something NEEDS to be done. It's like having a kid that acts out, but instead of giving them real consequences you simply say 'that was bad' and leave it at that.

Think I'll just totally agree with you on this!

dragonwillow · May 7, 2004

Here's a link to the gallery...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3689167.stm

Look at those, THEN judge.
Look how happy the soldiers look.
That's what's disturbing.

Nesagwa · May 7, 2004

He knew about it and didnt report it to his supperiors (ie. the president), instead he tried to cover it up and the photos got leaked to the press before he could prepare and now hes in a shit storm.

Conspiracy :buttrock:

!!!!!!!!

ttooddddyy · May 7, 2004

If any of us mere mortals showed the incompetence of Rumsfelt, from even before the war, we would have been fired long ago.

If the guy had any dignity, after recent revelations, he would resign, ultimately the buck stops with the president I guess.

In a perverse sort of way I hope he sticks around, even the right wingers around here must admit hes not doing much for the cause, his arrogant manner shits me.

galfordo · May 7, 2004

Bobak said:
The US had its opportunity to prove it was better than Saddam's regime:
Mission Failed.

We've still got about a few hundred thousand women to rape, a couple of hundred thousand of our own people to gas, and God knows how many more people to torture. Oh, and our government has to build billion dollar mansions on a whim and starve its entire population to death. Then we'll give him a run for his money.

SouthtownKid · May 7, 2004

galfordo said:
We've still got about a few hundred thousand women to rape, a couple of hundred thousand of our own people to gas, and God knows how many more people to torture. Oh, and our government has to build billion dollar mansions on a whim and starve its entire population to death. Then we'll give him a run for his money.

Geez, give us time! How much did Saddam do in his first year? You want the impossible, but be comforted, we're doing our best in the time remaining.

galfordo · May 7, 2004

SouthtownKid said:
Geez, give us time! How much did Saddam do in his first year? You want the impossible, but be comforted, we're doing our best in the time remaining.

At the rate we're going now, it'd probably take us oh ... about 200,000 years or so. The behavior was abhorent, and I understand the frustration, but the comparison of our troops with Saddam's is invalid.

Crovax · May 7, 2004

galfordo said:
At the rate we're going now, it'd probably take us oh ... about 200,000 years or so. The behavior was abhorent, and I understand the frustration, but the comparison of our troops with Saddam's it invalid.

y'know I'd agree with you if it was American hearts and minds we were trying to win. Unfortunately, its not. We're trying to win the hearts and minds of the iraqi people, and perceptiion is relative. From our perspective, we're doing quite well, but that hardly matters when the people who actually count don't feel that way.

galfordo · May 7, 2004

Crovax said:
y'know I'd agree with you if it was American hearts and minds we were trying to win. Unfortunately, its not. We're trying to win the hearts and minds of the iraqi people, and perceptiion is relative. From our perspective, we're doing quite well, but that hardly matters when the people who actually count don't feel that way.

That's a different discussion, and the available data on the whole "hearts and minds" thing is sketchy at best. I was just talking about comparing the actions of our military to those of Saddam, from an objective standpoint sans human judgement. I would still maintain that the majority of Iraqis are still glad that Saddam was ousted, despite the penalties.

Of course, Iraqis from previous Saddam strongholds aren't thrilled about our occupation there, mostly because they won't be getting handouts from him anymore. Many of the doom-and-gloom Iraqi interviews come from these places.

This is a pretty nasty mess we've made with the prisoners, but it will blow over. If they can forget about Saddam gassing entire villages, then I think they've got the stomach to get over this one. These people have been through much worse.

Rumsfeld Responsible for Iraqi Prisoner Mistreatment

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