3D Backgrounds in 2D Fighters; Your Take.

Kid Aphex

Kid Aphex

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I put this in general...because while it doesn't pertain to any real NEO GEO MVS/AES fighters, it looks like its going to pertain to some upcoming releases.

Still, the opinions I'm gathering shouldn't just be based on what you think FUTURE games are going to be like...rather, what you think of the trend thus far.
[/b]

My opinion?

Capcom Vs SNK2...sucks. Gameplay is fun! But... the backgrounds are the most bland...boring...ugly...goofy...worthless...pieces of shit ever. [Shin Gouki's is decent...]

KOF99Evolution for the DC is a WHOLE 'NOTHER STORY. I dont think i've ever seen graphics this bad ass. Since KOF99 on the AES is no graphical slouch...improving its beauty seemed near impossible to me. But the 3D models make for BAD ASS camera pans and shots. For example, the airport stage.

Evo's backgrounds, while 3D, retained a gritty and detailed quality---unlike the glossy backgrounds of CapVsSnk2, and subsequently, EVO is one of the best looking games on the Dreamcast to date---while CapVsSnk2 eats my ass.
 
B

Big Shady

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3D Backgrounds in 2D games = eyeball stab

Well, not all of the time, but most of the time. The sprites just seem so out of place with the 3D bg's. I'd prefer very stylized 2D bg's with killer art, then 3D ones.
 
Kiel

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They just dont belong together.

The same goes for special FX please keep them 2D
 
Mike Shagohod

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Never cared for 3D backgrounds in VS. FIGHTING games, if it's something like backgrounds for a "SHOOTER" like Blazing Star or something pre-rendered in 3-D then it's okay, as the action is happening so fast it doesn't really matter... but for a 2-D fighter, naaw man... it just don't cut it for me.

MERCENARY X99
 
E

Electroman

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3D backgrounds in 2D fighters are a bit distracting but not unacceptable. They would be better if the moving backgrounds actually accomplished something practical.

CvS2 backgrounds.... I agree, they are either too busy, too visually 'loud', or too pastel.

But if 3D backgrounds open up new possibilities of creativity, i'm for it, and again I have faith that SNKP will continue their techniques for making tasteful and practical backgronds, not something dumb ass like the stuff in CvS2.
 
Verythrax

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I never liked it, it never blended well.

But I'm impressed with Rumble Fish. If the future SNKP releases will have that 3D bg quality and blend, I'm all for it.
 
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S

Stokers

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Always looks daft,

Capcom vs snk 2 for example, those blocky sprites were bad enough, but against 3d rendered background it looked piss poor

You wanna keep the style continous throughout, or it doesnt blend as the guy above me so rightly said
 
evil wasabi

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I'm waiting to see how Rumble Fish turns out. Here's what I have to say.

Sprite based 2D fighters will always have a slight bit of awkwardness to them. This is just due to the simple fact that you have two different art styles trying to happen at the same time.

Now 2D fighters doesn't necessarily mean sprites which I think some people forget. 2D just means using a single plane for gameplay. Take Yoshi's Story as an example or Super Smash Brothers. Full 3D that only makes use of 2D gameplay. This is where 3D starts to shine. Shooter titles like Ikaruga are beatiful although its damn hard to stop to watch those backgrounds fly by.

So I guess I think 2D fighters that are sprite based will always be hard to 'update' with 3D backgrounds. But 3D based fighters with 2D gameplay will only start to look better.

Again, waiting to see how Rumble Fish turns out. :)
 
Verythrax

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lithy said:
Now 2D fighters doesn't necessarily mean sprites which I think some people forget. 2D just means using a single plane for gameplay. Take Yoshi's Story as an example or Super Smash Brothers. Full 3D that only makes use of 2D gameplay. This is where 3D starts to shine. Shooter titles like Ikaruga are beatiful although its damn hard to stop to watch those backgrounds fly by.
Click to expand...

I agree. Well, I don't think that 3D graphics are at point these days to make a convincent KOF with 3D characters and 2D gameplay, but that's the concept. As soon they manage to do it, it will rock, I think.
 
rarehero

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yes. 99 was a better game with 3d backgrounds.
personally I like hi res 2d backgrounds if I had any ways about it.
 
S

Setsuna1982

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the problem is 3d backgrounds with 2d LOW-RES sprites

But 3d backgrounds with 2d HIGH-RES sprites... well.. that could be a different story
 
Lovecraft0110

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Kid Aphex said:
I put this in general...because while it doesn't pertain to any real NEO GEO MVS/AES fighters, it looks like its going to pertain to some upcoming releases.

Still, the opinions I'm gathering shouldn't just be based on what you think FUTURE games are going to be like...rather, what you think of the trend thus far.


My opinion?

Capcom Vs SNK2...sucks. Gameplay is fun! But... the backgrounds are the most bland...boring...ugly...goofy...worthless...pieces of shit ever. [Shin Gouki's is decent...]

KOF99Evolution for the DC is a WHOLE 'NOTHER STORY. I dont think i've ever seen graphics this bad ass. Since KOF99 on the AES is no graphical slouch...improving its beauty seemed near impossible to me. But the 3D models make for BAD ASS camera pans and shots. For example, the airport stage.

Evo's backgrounds, while 3D, retained a gritty and detailed quality---unlike the glossy backgrounds of CapVsSnk2, and subsequently, EVO is one of the best looking games on the Dreamcast to date---while CapVsSnk2 eats my ass. [/B]
Click to expand...

Yeah, you said it all. Capcom vs SNK 2 sucks big time, but KoF 99 Evolution was a GREAT game. Its 3D backgrounds were completely beautiful, clearly an improvement over the original ones, which is no small feat.
 
beelzebubble

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yeah i like 2d bgs in 2d games.

rumble fish's bgs dont look that good i think... subjective of course. they are very sparse, lifeless.
 
U

Underdog

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If they're just going to do a 2d-style background in 3d they shouldn't bother. Keep it 2d.

If they're going to use it, go nuts.

My problem with 3d BGs isn't that they're 3d. It's that, like beelze said, they usually wind up looking really empty. Sometimes it works, the alley in CvS is a great stage. But every one shouldn't be empty.
 
Bishamon

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I like the way the 3D backgrounds were done in King of Fighters Dream Match 1999 for Dreamcast; they were lo-res 3D, and looked a LOT like the original KOF'98 2D backgrounds, only 3D. Well done!

On the other hand, when the backgrounds are hi-res 3D and the sprites are low-res 2D (a la Capcom vs. SNK), it can look pretty shitty.
 
SouthtownKid

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Disney has been using 3D in the backgrounds of their animated movies for a while now. In parts of a couple movies, maybe a few scenes in Tarzan for example, they've blended pretty well with the 2D figures and were nearly seamless if you weren't looking for them.

When video game companies are better able to make seamless 3D backgrounds rather than trying to dazzle us with noise and pointless effects (CVS2), I'll be more accepting of them. Right now, I much prefer the pseudo-3D of backgrounds like those used in the original SF2 series and Samurai Shodown 3 -- 2D graphics manipulated to make it looks as if the perspective shifts as you walk across the floor... the horizon moves with you when you jump in SS3... As an artist, these things are beautiful to me. And most importantly, those backgrounds looked like they belonged with those characters.

I'm sure at some point they'll manage to work out a good ballance, but right now the 3D backgrounds aren't making it with me.
 
S

Setsuna1982

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SouthtownKid said:
Disney has been using 3D in the backgrounds of their animated movies for a while now. In parts of a couple movies, maybe a few scenes in Tarzan for example, they've blended pretty well with the 2D figures and were nearly seamless if you weren't looking for them.

When video game companies are better able to make seamless 3D backgrounds rather than trying to dazzle us with noise and pointless effects (CVS2), I'll be more accepting of them. Right now, I much prefer the pseudo-3D of backgrounds like those used in the original SF2 series and Samurai Shodown 3 -- 2D graphics manipulated to make it looks as if the perspective shifts as you walk across the floor... the horizon moves with you when you jump in SS3... As an artist, these things are beautiful to me. And most importantly, those backgrounds looked like they belonged with those characters.

I'm sure at some point they'll manage to work out a good ballance, but right now the 3D backgrounds aren't making it with me.
Click to expand...

as I said the problem is not the 3d backgrounds. it's the nasty mix of hi-res and low-res.

Tarzan look great because everything have the same resolution.
Guilty Gear look great because everything have the same resolution.

But Melty Blood looks like shit because it mix low res sprites with kickass hi-res backgrounds.
And CvsS2 also have "more or less" good backgrounds but mixed with low res sprites the game looks like shit.

Even kof99evo looks a bit crappy with those 200% scale sprites in contrast with the AWESOME backgrounds.

Right now, with today technology, it's perfectly possible a 3d background in the fashion of Kof99evo (3d but not rotating camera, just 1 plane) but as intrincated as a classic 2D background.

If someone have the patiente, moral and wish to make such a game (hi-res for EVERYTHING) then that game will kick-ass... at least visually...
 
Metal Fatigue

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Couldnt agree more, and I totally agree with KA's points on CVS2, garbage. Even when I heard they were "sort of" making the ps2 releases with 3D bgs I didnt even want to see them.
 
Super Porky

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I dont mind 3D bgs as long as they run in the same resolution. KOF Evo looks fine cuz the characters and bgs both run in the same resolution. CvS2 and MvC2 both have low res character sprites and high res bgs, hence these game look crappy.
 
msu89dawgs

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Like others have said, low-res 2D characters with 3D backgrounds generally look out of place, so for Neo-Geo and Capcom 2D fighters, I prefer 2D backgrounds. KOF 98 and 99 on the Neo look much better to me than their 3D "enhanced" ports on the Dreamcast. High-res 2D characters with 3D bg's is another story.
 
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